Talk:Blagoevgrad Province

Issues with new content

Hello VMORO. There are some issues with the content you recently introduced in the Ethnic groups sub-section. The content in the first paragraph appears to be mostly off topic. The topic of the article is definitely the Blagoevgrad Province, not what most Slavs had identified as in the region of Macedonia. The claim that the UMO Ilinden-Pirin is separatist and foreign-funded is not reliably sourced. It requires better sourcing than Bulgarian media sources and VMRO-BND claims. There also isn't adequate sourcing for the claim that the then Republic of Macedonia consistently made claims against the Bulgarian population, but it's true that this was happening during VMRO-DPMNE's rule. However, on Wikipedia we cannot introduce content just because we know it to be true, we have to provide reliable sources too. It also needs to be within the scope of the article. Content about what was happening in the Blagoevgrad Province during the communist period could be added in the "History" section, but within scope and with due weight. It's not really due to include much content about a pretty tiny part of Bulgaria's population, as some have already pointed out here. Also, I'm wondering if Stojko Stojkov's claim (while not new content) is really necessary here. StephenMacky1 (talk) 22:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Steve! I understand your point. However, how "in scope" is it really to constantly add content to such articles that - in the lack of actual evidence - is supposed to sow seeds of doubt, introduce a narrative, make you wonder if there is perhaps some truth to the "Macedonian" side of things. Why is the topic "ethnic Macedonians" even discussed in this article? There have a number of censuses since 1990, and the number of ethnic Macedonians in the country - minus naturalized one - is very obviously close to zero. There were indeed some 10-15,000 people with Communist persuasions who took the Macedonist idea to heart in the late 40s. But they're dead now - because of age, not because we killed them. There was indeed one census - in 1946 - where people were forced to say they were Macedonians (this is very well documented), which was repeated in 1956 under pressure from the Soviet Union as they wanted to thaw relations with Yugoslavia (yes, I have a source for that), but that's it. So, no, the situation with the number of ethnic Macedonians is NOT complicated, as the previous text said. There is one and only one reason why this continues, and its name is irrendentism. It is not true that former Yugoslavia and then independent North Macedonia have stopped making claims towards the region or its population. If it was, then there wouldn't be the constant allegations of oppressed Macedonians, 200,000, 300,000, 700,000, the claims that the dialects spoken here are Macedonian, etc. etc.

The same thing concerns OMO Ilinden Pirin. It is a fake party with no members and no actual structures, whose only way to convey the idea of the hundreds of thousands of opressed Macedonians is through constant litigation. Yes, it did have some members and structures in 1990s, when that older generation was still alive, and it even polled 3,000 votes in one local election when it was allowed to run. But now? Why is it discussed in any article? Why is it relevant to discuss it in this article - about a Bulgarian province? If it actually had any support among the population, believe me, everyone would have felt it. And don't point fingers at me about sources. The same sources and the same claims were in the previous text, I just borrowed them.

Again, what is the relevance of Stoyko Stoykov? Why is he relevant and the Bulgarian media and VMRO-BND not relevant? VMRO-BND at least had a major presence in the province in the 2000s and 2010s, and even now, it has the largest number of city council members in the municipality of Blagoevgrad. But what makes Stoyko Stoykov relevant? That he says things that sound like music to Macedonian ears?

I dispute that what I wrote is not relevant to the article. Vardar Macedonia went on a different path after 1944 - and good luck with that - but Pirin Macedonia stayed on the same one. You had a nation-building process - and good for you - but Bulgarian Macedonians didn't. I don't understand why the people in North Macedonia cannot understand this, but as long as you (not you personally, generally speaking) continue to claim that everything in georgaphical Macedonia is ethnic Macedonian, then we'll have to point out the same things over and over again.

And to finish with something funny: Kiril Despodov, who has been voted footballer of the year several times now and who is from Kresna, has so far had to make formal statements on three separate occasions that he is not Macedonian. Because your press keeps writing "our boy", "the Macedonian footballer", etc. etc. This is so bizarre and would be so so funny if it weren't so annoying. And the same thing happens pretty much everywhere and about everything. VMORO 01:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I can suggest you something else: erasing the whole section, keeping the statements that they have a regional Macedonian identity (although after the last couple of years, it is really on the way of dying out, but never mind), that this, however, is not an ethnic Macedonian identity, and then to give the number of ethnic Macedonians according to the census. Just dry facts without much politics that unnecessarily annoys any of the sides. I think that neither what I wrote, nor the previous text is appropriate for this particular article. If you don't agree, please tell me what you suggest. VMORO 22:26, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I have no objections. Thank you. StephenMacky1 (talk) 05:40, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

VMORO, I was busy with exams before, but I already responded here that I have no objections with the newest content. Thanks. StephenMacky1 (talk) 14:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay, my oversight then🙂. Thanks, Steve!VMORO 16:13, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 18 June 2025

Template:Category handler

• Blagoevgrad Province → Blagoevgrad (province)Blagoevgrad (province)
• Burgas Province → Burgas (province)Burgas (province)
• Dobrich Province → Dobrich (province)Dobrich (province)
• Gabrovo Province → Gabrovo (province)Gabrovo (province)
• Haskovo Province → Haskovo (province)Haskovo (province)
• Kardzhali Province → Kardzhali (province)Kardzhali (province)
• Kyustendil Province → Kyustendil (province)Kyustendil (province)
• Lovech Province → Lovech (province)Lovech (province)
• Montana Province → Montana (province)Montana (province)
• Pazardzhik Province → Pazardzhik (province)Pazardzhik (province)
• Pernik Province → Pernik (province)Pernik (province)
• Pleven Province → Pleven (province)Pleven (province)
• Plovdiv Province → Plovdiv (province)Plovdiv (province)
• Razgrad Province → Razgrad (province)Razgrad (province)
• Ruse Province → Ruse (province)Ruse (province)
• Shumen Province → Shumen (province)Shumen (province)
• Silistra Province → Silistra (province)Silistra (province)
• Sliven Province → Sliven (province)Sliven (province)
• Smolyan Province → Smolyan (province)Smolyan (province)
• Sofia Province → Sofia (province)Sofia (province)
• Sofia City Province → Sofia City (province)Sofia City (province)
• Stara Zagora Province → Stara Zagora (province)Stara Zagora (province)
• Targovishte Province → Targovishte (province)Targovishte (province)
• Varna Province → Varna (province)Varna (province)
• Veliko Tarnovo Province → Veliko Tarnovo (province)Veliko Tarnovo (province)
• Vidin Province → Vidin (province)Vidin (province)
• Vratsa Province → Vratsa (province)Vratsa (province)
• Yambol Province → Yambol (province)Yambol (province)

– "Province" is not part of the name. See w:bg:Области в България. 108.88.82.1 (talk) 23:52, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. It seems to me that the two-part names are commonly used. See for example official website of Blagoevgrad Province. I do not see the proposed names as an improvement. FromCzech (talk) 08:31, 20 June 2025 (UTC)