View source for Talk:Pachinko

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== Bad Comparison ==
The last paragraph of the heading provides the '''revenue''' of the pachinko industry and then compares it to the '''profit''' of the casino gambling and narcotics industries.  At best this is unhelpful, at worst it is misleading.  The sentence should be revised with revenue/revenue comparisons or removed.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Lhoriman|Lhoriman]] ([[User talk:Lhoriman|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lhoriman|contribs]]) 02:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

As this has not been edited in a year, I am removing the misleading comparison. [[User:Wee Jimmy|Wee Jimmy]] ([[User talk:Wee Jimmy|talk]]) 23:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Article badly needs sources ==
{{UNRESOLVED|1=As of late 2011, much of the article remains unsourced or unreliably sourced.}}
I read this article and most of the information seems based on the editor's opinion and knowledge. There are no sources to backup most of the information in this article.

: Seconded. The whole article reads like a personal research project, minus sources to lend credence to any of the claims. As much of the anecdotal evidence and claims lacking sources have sat there for months on end, I'm going to trim them. Until we have sources to back up claims that staff members remotely manipulate machine payouts while customers are playing, (as just one example) such info can't remain. --[[User:Lets Enjoy Life|Lets Enjoy Life]] ([[User talk:Lets Enjoy Life|talk]]) 03:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

::This is so awful and has been flagged for so many YEARS as needing sourcing that I've taken the fairly unusual step of tagging it to a rather severe level, so that it is patently clear what must be sourced. I also fully intend to delete large portions of this article by January 2012 if they are not sourced, because it cannot continue sitting here year after year violating basic Wikipedia policies like [[WP:V]] and [[WP:NOR]]. Just putting a note at the top of the page obviously had no effect at all in over 3 years, since not only was unsourced material not sourced, a bunch of total crap was added instead, so it's time to play hardball.  I've cleaned up the article a bit, including fixing the total misrepresentation of a reliable source, and removing blatant original research and unreliably-sourced [[gambler's fallacy]] hogwash.  But the bulk of this article remains unsourced and some of it's just plain wrong. — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]'''   <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User talk:SMcCandlish|Talk⇒]] ʕ(<sup>Õ</sup>ل<sup>ō</sup>)ˀ</span>  <small>[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|Contribs]].</small></span> 05:30, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

===Useful source===
The article someone else found (see archives) at http://www.pingmag.jp/2006/04/06/pachinko-designs/ actually has a lot of useful information in it and while rather toward the loose side of secondary, seems to be reliable enough for the basics, including many facts not mentioned in our article (where pachinko was introduced, the fact that the games are very noisy like American slots, so on and so forth). — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]'''   <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User talk:SMcCandlish|Talk⇒]] ʕ(<sup>Õ</sup>ل<sup>ō</sup>)ˀ</span>  <small>[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|Contribs]].</small></span> 05:30, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

== Children's pachinko ==
I need some verification that Japan has children's version of pachinko which are played at [[night markets]], fairs, and festivals.  I know both Japan and Taiwan sells toy pachinkos made of bright colored plastic and uses small metal balls.  But, the one I am refering to as the children pachinko is home-made using wood, nails, and glass marbles which are cheaper than steel ones.  I know Taiwan night markets have them when I was a kid there, we redeem glass marbles for toys and candy.  Anyone know about Japan's side of things?

:RE: Bro, I can confirm that, and comment on the one previous about online pachinko. I live in Japan, and yeah, they do have both Pachinko for kids at 祭り or "matsuri" (''Festival in direct translation.)'' I have not seen very many wooden or homade looking ones (although yes, on occasion)', but I have often seen pachinko or pachisuro machines at matsuri that just looked like old machines that are no longer being used, and for "fun" - In game arcades, karaoke, hotel lobbys, department stores-Everywhere! Its "entertainment"- many of the games are based around manga etc.,
:Where can I post pics to verify this? 
:<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/124.102.203.105|124.102.203.105]] ([[User talk:124.102.203.105|talk]]) 15:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::You can upload pictures to http://commons.wikimedia.org if they are your own photos, and they'll automatically become part of Wikipedia's available pool of images, internally. — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]'''   <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User talk:SMcCandlish|Talk⇒]] ʕ(<sup>Õ</sup>ل<sup>ō</sup>)ˀ</span>  <small>[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|Contribs]].</small></span> 05:30, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

:The article still doesn't mention anything about this. But please don't add anything without [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]'''   <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User talk:SMcCandlish|Talk⇒]] ʕ(<sup>Õ</sup>ل<sup>ō</sup>)ˀ</span>  <small>[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|Contribs]].</small></span> 05:30, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

==Unsourced sections on strategies and manipulation==
{{Resolved|1=Sections deleted per Wikipedia policies at [[WP:V]], [[WP:NOR]] and [[WP:NOT]].}}
These sections are unsourced, and they seem silly to me -- just a bunch of rumors and speculation.--[[Special:Contributions/76.167.77.165|76.167.77.165]] ([[User talk:76.167.77.165|talk]]) 03:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
:I have removed them. The manipulation material has been flagged as unsourced for over 3 years now, and as you indicate, neither section is encyclopedic to begin with.  Clearly also violates [[WP:NOT#HOWTO]]. If anyone wants to work on and [[WP:RS|reliably source]] the material, they can dig it out of article history.
:But good luck. The strategies stuff had one so-called source, but it's presumptively unreliable, being apparently authored by a teenage "busty model" as some kind of self-promotional item. This source itself says that Japan is rife with books and magazines purporting to tell how to "beat the system" (hint: hucksters who tell you they're telling you how to beat the system are lying to get your money, including this one; they're actually part of the gambling industry - belief in "systems" is part of what drives people to keep coming back to wager and lose). The advice I've removed included some factually stupid nonsense, such as firm belief in "streaks" (i.e. the statistically ignorant superstition, "the [[gambler's fallacy]]" that if you've been losing a lot, if you just keep playing you'll eventually win big &ndash; this is why casinos take your money and the other major reason that gambling becomes an addiction).  Even if some actually reliable source can be found on strategic ways to approach pachinko as a form of gambling, this book isn't it, and way more to the point, Wikipedia is not the place for it. Try a gaming blog. — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]'''   <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User talk:SMcCandlish|Talk⇒]] ʕ(<sup>Õ</sup>ل<sup>ō</sup>)ˀ</span>  <small>[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|Contribs]].</small></span> 02:24, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

==Article improvement==
I've [[WP:BOLD|declared]] [[Pachinko]] the December 2011 [[WP:ACID|Collaboration of the Month]] for all of the projects within the scope of which the article falls.  It badly needs work, especially sourcing.  Since it is based on the ja.wiki version of the article, and most of the sources will be in Japanese, it could obviously use some help from someone who knows the language.  Basically, the article has a lot of information, but virtually none of it is sourced.  It has some suspect "information" in it (I removed most of the blatant [[WP:NOR]] and [[WP:NOT#HOWTO]] violations), and it is also missing historical information prior to around 1920. — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]'''   <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User talk:SMcCandlish|Talk⇒]] ʕ(<sup>Õ</sup>ل<sup>ō</sup>)ˀ</span>  <small>[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|Contribs]].</small></span> 09:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
*I just deleted the rash of per-section banners as unnecessary, but I was not aware of this recent flurry of activity. Please exercise caution when deleting seemingly reasonable content just because it is unsourced. You could delete much of Wikipedia that way. [[Special:Contributions/86.183.128.75|86.183.128.75]] ([[User talk:86.183.128.75|talk]]) 03:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
A list of known manufacturers might be useful, as some people believe there were hundreds of manufacturers.  Did machines from these manufacturers survive?  I have 35 or so named manufacturers (I can make a list).  Then, will we determine that Maruto an Tomaru are the same? [[User:MNPachinko|MNPachinko]] ([[User talk:MNPachinko|talk]]) 13:11, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Other areas for discussion: nail patterns, payoff amounts (e.g., 10, 13, 15, 20 (Misono)), payoff mechanisms (tulip, open-open-close-tulip, see-saw), garbled English ("King Gorira," "Asletic," "Itary," "Evelest," others?) [[User:MNPachinko|MNPachinko]] ([[User talk:MNPachinko|talk]]) 13:11, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pachinko video games ==

There are hundreads of Pachinko video games. Many franchises like ''Sankyo Fever'', ''Heiwa'', ''Nishijin Pachinko'', etc. I'm going to create the section "Video games". ok? --[[User:Hydao|Hydao]] ([[User talk:Hydao|talk]]) 09:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
:Seems reasonable - as long as it focuses only on long-running game series. --[[User:Jtalledo|Jtalledo]] [[User talk:Jtalledo|(talk)]] 20:03, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
::Or maybe I'll just add some external links. There's not much to talk about the games.
::http://www.giantbomb.com/sankyo-fever/62-2253/ (Sankyo Fever)
::http://www.giantbomb.com/nishijin-pachinko/62-2256/ (Nishijin Pachinko)
::http://www.giantbomb.com/heiwa/62-2255/ (Heiwa)
::Etc. These three companies has no English wiki page though. --[[User:Hydao|Hydao]] ([[User talk:Hydao|talk]]) 01:16, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

== Importance evaluation ==

I have evaluated the article [[Pachinko]] as ''High''-importance. Pachinko parlors are an ubiquitous feature of any large town or city in Japan, new games are constantly designed and are much anticipated, and pachinko-addiction has been a major social and legal issue over the years. While pachinko has been a source of recreation or entertainment, it has also been grounds for bankruptcy and divorce, and fueled organized crime. [[User:Boneyard90|Boneyard90]] ([[User talk:Boneyard90|talk]]) 13:18, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

== Unintended consequences of a law about pachinkos ==

I was told recently, in the context of a Japanese online game ([https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceTC/comments/4yeg2c/tandem_rework/d6nxjny?context=3]) that some "law related to pachinkos" set up to prevent giving out awards in incomplete parts (presumably so that players would have to keep playing to complete a reward) messes up with online games. Could anyone verify this, and add some information like - which law is it? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 04:37, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

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== addiction ==

there should be a section about the negative effects of pachinko on society and gaming addiction... [[User:Teemeah|<b>Teemeah</b>]]  [[User talk:Teemeah|<sup>편지 (letter)</sup>]]  21:38, 7 February 2018 (UTC)


:Found a source and started that section on the page. It's basic and could use some fleshing out with more sources. [[User:MellowSandwich|MellowSandwich]] ([[User talk:MellowSandwich|talk]]) 01:52, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

== Federal Law...?!? ==

I remarked to a friend last night (in allusion to [[Turing Tumble]]) that I don't think I've ever seen a Pachinko machine in the U.S. She averred that there was Federal law, but if so I have been unable to track it down. [[User:Kencf0618|kencf0618]] ([[User talk:Kencf0618|talk]]) 00:13, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
:If you mean there's a U.S. federal law banning pachinko, that's completely untrue. A lot of Nishijin pachinko machines were imported into the U.S. during the 1970s and were even sold in [[Sears]] catalogs. My aunt and uncle used to have a 1970s-era Nishijin pachinko machine but I don't think it was functioning. [[User:Bumm13|Bumm13]] ([[User talk:Bumm13|talk]]) 09:34, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

== Italicized article title ==

<s>Before I generate a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves|page move request]],</s> I'd like to first obtain some opinions. As far as I can tell, 'pachinko' is a descriptive name for a type of machine, just as 'pinball' is a descriptive name. Thus, I'm a little confused why the article title is italicized for a [[Proper and common nouns|common noun]]. In examining the article source text, I find [[Template:Italic title]], with the reason given as [[:Category:Japanese words and phrases]]. Well, I didn't find anything in this article's Talk page, or its Archive, that would offer a clearer explanation of why a common noun in Romanized Japanese, is italicized. Would someone be so kind as to provide a brief explanation for the record? Thank you.<br> —&nbsp;[[User:DeNoel|Christopher, Sheridan, OR]] ([[User talk:DeNoel|talk]]) 18:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

:I agree, it should not be italicized. I will unitalicize it. 
:Reasoning: [https://onelook.com/?w=Pachinko&ls=a]. It is now listed as a valid word in numerous English language dictionaries; this is a criteria listed for being unitalicized according to the Wikipedia MOS [[User:Toobigtokale|toobigtokale]] ([[User talk:Toobigtokale|talk]]) 20:56, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

== Redundant repetition ==

This article multiple times makes the point that pachinko playing is gambling for money via the fiction of tokens or "special prizes". It probably ojnly needs to be said once or twice. [[Special:Contributions/203.13.3.94|203.13.3.94]] ([[User talk:203.13.3.94|talk]]) 01:45, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

== Difference in Pachinko revenue between articles ==

[[Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_(franchise)#Pachinko]]
and
[[Fist_of_the_North_Star#Pachinko]] vs this article [[Pachinko#Franchises]]

Any explanation for the difference here? the difference is upward to  4+ billion. thanks 

Edit: It was answered by Maestro here [[Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises]] [[User:WillsEdtior777|WillsEdtior777]] ([[User talk:WillsEdtior777|talk]]) 00:17, 18 March 2022 (UTC)