Wiki143:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/January 2008

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Script error: No such module "Archive". This is an archive of discussions from Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals for the month of January 2008. Please move completed January discussions to this page as they occur, add discussion headers to each proposal showing the result, and leave incomplete discussions on the Proposals page. After January, the remainder of the discussions will be moved to this page, whether stub types have been created or not.

Those who create a stub template/cat should be responsible for moving the discussion here and listing the stub type in the archive summary.

Stub proposers please note: Items tagged as "nocreate" or "no consensus" are welcome for re-proposal if and when circumstances are auspicious.

Template:Tl / category pending sort

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The result of the debate was create.
Possible sport-bio for Egypt. Not sure on the numbers until actualy hand sorting is done.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 16:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Count is 52 with 1 sub-category. Enough to create?--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 17:52, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
  • We really need to set some sort of rule about articles plus subcats (maybe something like "threshold is 60 articles, number reducing by ten for every existing subcategory" or similar). 52's pretty close given that there is a subtype. Grutness...wha? 22:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Added another four or five just now by sorting Template:Tl. In any case, I'd say that a subcat is certainly worth at least 10 articles, so go ahead and create the cat. Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
      • For my money, a sensibly-populated subcategory is "worth" about 20 or 30. I'm not sure we really need to nail that down in the guidelines, though. Alai (talk) 03:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
        • A reasonable compromise might be a vaguer note on the threshold info - something like "the threshold may be lowered if there are existing subcategories". That'll leave the details largely up to the individual case. It's pretty much what happens anyway, but it may be less obvious to editors who aren't WP:WSS regulars. Grutness...wha? 05:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was .

Propose creation of parent category for "Nationality-sport-stub", called Cat:Sports stubs by nationality. This would be similar to Category:Sportspeople stubs by nationality, and could also allow individual "Nationality-sport-stub" links to be listed at WP:STUBS. Currently, the eight "Nationality-sport-stub" categories fall under Category:Sports stubs, which has 60 subcategories. The proposed parent category would come under Category:Sports stubs, replacing the individual "Nationality-sport-stub" categories. Cheers. – Liveste (talk) 12:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Support, though I would suggest it being called Template:Cl - sports generally don't have a nationality. I'd also propose and support an equivalent Template:Cl. Similar has been done in the past with things like the overall people stubs category (splitting by nationality and occupation), and this would tidy up the top of Template:Cl quite nicely. Grutness...wha? 23:12, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Support(at by country) and Support Grutness' ideas, it might also be an idea to have a Template:Cl for the likes of the asian games stubs, commonwealth games stubs, Olympic games stubs etc but lets see what the above does first. Waacstats (talk) 14:14, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment The above ideas all sound good. Support creation of Template:Cl, Template:Cl, as well as Template:Cl (perhaps renamed Template:Cl, consistent with how each of these is described in their respective articles). Cheers. – Liveste (talk) 23:04, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Update Template:Cl already covers Asian Games stubs, Commonwealth Games stubs and the like. No need to create a new category. Sorry for any confusion. – Liveste [talk • contrib] 11:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
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2 more for de upmerger

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The result of the debate was create.
both the following have upmerged templates with over 60 articles each

Speedy? Waacstats (talk) 11:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
template over 60. Waacstats (talk) 12:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Speedy. Alai (talk) 17:35, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
As below, so above. Another country is coaxed to 60 geo-stubs. Grutness...wha? 09:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
As predicted late last month, Grenada didn't take long to reach the 60 stub mark. Looks like several other Caribbean nations are getting close, too (USVI is over 50, for instance). A separate category for Template:Tl seems speediable. Grutness...wha? 05:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Er, both my fault, along with the recent uptick in St. Lucia-related stubs. I was really bored at work Sunday. Support, of course. --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 05:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, this time of year does that. We've just suffered the "annopause" - that uncomfortable week after Christmas when it seems the old year has gone but the new one hasn't started yet. I've nearly got Antigua and Barbuda up to 60 now as well, so expect that one to be proposed as a speedy soon, too. Grutness...wha? 08:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl split

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The result of the debate was create.
It's not strictly-speaking splittable at present, but apparently a certain Welsh Bond villian is populating it apace, and urges that we split it into the 14 top-level subdivisions. I suggest we (speedily) create upmerged templates now, and subcategories as and when required. Alai (talk) 22:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Templates sound a reasonable move, especially of B of S is working as fast as you say. Grutness...wha? 00:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
    • The growth rate is nothing Polbot-like (and hopefully the error rate isn't, either), but better to get in front of things for a change. Alai (talk) 00:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Support - Per nom. --escondites 09:41, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
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3 countries sportspeople stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Template:Tl would have over 60 articles so propose that and Template:Cl.
Template:Tl would have around 40 articles as does the existing footy template making 80 so I propose Template:Cl.
The Armenians are in the same situation so propose Template:Tl and Template:Cl.Waacstats (talk) 13:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Propose Template:Cl as the top category for the above.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 22:53, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Although it's a noun form, Template:Cl would reduce ambiguity with that one. Mind you, we got rid of the equivalent geography category once Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia each had their own categories, since it simply added an extra level to the hierarchy, so I doubt it's really that necessary. Grutness...wha? 23:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
That works. It still exists in Template:Cl, which is where I took my cue from. We could just list the Caucasus counties under Europe and Asia, having the same effect.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 00:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
catscan gives 60+ articles, propose Template:Tl and above cat. Waacstats (talk) 16:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl & Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Cat scan gives over 60 articles each propose Template:Tl, Template:Tl and above cats. Waacstats (talk) 09:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

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Drogheda Stub

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The result of the debate was do not create.
There really should be a Drogheda stub. It would serve around Droghedaa place which should have been granted city satatus long ago.I myself have made/edited/discoverd 70 articles relating to Drogheda. I know i have said this before but i have made many more articles about drogheda and belive that a stub would better fit the purpose rather than a louth-geo-stub or meath-geo-stub.In the Category:Drogheda there is 26 pages and thats not all of the pages relating to Drogheda.In Category:Drogheda United players there are 71 pages with most of them needing a stub. Drogheda itself is over the two counties saying eleswhys is just fooling your self.So i ask you would you deny a large area a privlage that has been bestowed on so many smaller places?Would you? Would you not make a stub for something that only lasts a year and yet not give the same honor to a place which has been around for over 1000 years and will propley be there for another 10000 years? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Markreidyhp (talk • contribs)

  • Oppose. I appreciate your passion, but it doesn't work here. Stub types are not "bestowed" due to worthiness, geographic size, or potential. In Template:Cl and its one sub-cat, there are a total of 60 articles, only 10 of which are stub-sized (and I was being generous; they're 1,000k or smaller). Category:Drogheda United F.C. players has 71 articles, but only 10 of those qualify as stubs. The numbers currently don't support the need for a stub type. Once there are 60+ stub-size articles that could ONLY go in a Drogheda stubs, THEN it will be appropriate to propose such a type. Cheers, Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:07, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose - sorry Mark, but Peg's right. Also, one other thing worth noting is that sportspeople aren't usually given place-specific stubs below the national level, since they tend to move from club to club too frequently (consider a player who's played for ten teams during his career - would you really want ten stub templates on his article?). So even if the Drogheda United players were all stubs, they wouldn't qualify for a Drogheda-stub. Usually City-stub types are restricted to items to do with buildings in the city, sports clubs in the city, the history of the city, people who are specifically associated only with that city (e.g. Mayors) and that sort of thing. Grutness...wha? 00:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Cat scan gives 60+ articles that could be tagged with a Template:Tl propose template and category. Waacstats (talk) 13:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Cat scan gives 90+ articles that could be tagged with a Template:Tl propose template and category. Waacstats (talk) 12:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Cat scan gives 61 articles that could be tagged with a Template:Tl propose template and category. Waacstats (talk) 12:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

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Algerian sportspeople stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Same proposal as Egyptians for Algerians. 1 subcategory and around 40 between athletes and boxers with enough strays to be around 50-60.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 02:22, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • For Go Algerian sportspeople stub.Make one!Make one!Make one!Make one!Make one!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Markreidyhp (talk • contribs)
  • Support even if it has been alteady done before the end of the five day period. Caerwine Caer’s whines 21:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was speedy.
There are currently 82 articles that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Western United States radio station stubs. - Dravecky (talk) 10:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was speedy.
There are currently 61 articles that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Midwestern United States radio station stubs. - Dravecky (talk) 10:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Speedy this, and the above. Alai (talk) 16:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was speedy.
User:Gothique212 has been busy lately, and his/her work has resulted in there now being about 63 geo-stubs for Brunei. Another speedy at the country-geo level... Grutness...wha? 09:36, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Tl / Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
About 70 of these in Template:Cl and it parallels the existing Template:Tl in form. Caerwine Caer’s whines 22:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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Split of Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Former permcat Template:Cl has been split into Template:Cl and Template:Cl. Template:Tl now has over 60 articles, warranting its own category, but Template:Tl is not even close. Perhaps upmerge Gisborne stubs into Template:Cl? Cheers. – Liveste [talk • contrib] 02:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Support Slightly undoes the October SFD concerning New Zealand geography stubs, but since the two regional stubs in this case were merged because the permcat was merged, it makes sense to demerge. However, it will need to go to SFD again to get rid of the existing category. Caerwine Caer’s whines 03:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Support the BoP split. Gisborne is a bit of a problem, and I'd rather it wasn't upmerged since there's already a lot of clutter in the general NZ category (over 40 stubs on NZ's non-region-specific offshore islands - almost enough for a category in itself!) But i can't see another option for now. Given time, and I'm sure there'll be enough stubs there for its own category - just not yet. Grutness...wha? 07:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 73 articles that link to Template:Tl, which should be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Western United States radio station stubs. - JPG-GR (talk) 20:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Speediable. Alai (talk) 04:40, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Long morning - I created 70-odd to go with the existing handful. Speedy, perhaps? --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 18:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Sounds like it to me. Alai (talk) 18:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Given that the "existing handful" was 41 stubs (at last count, last week), this seems like a good idea :) Grutness...wha? 19:52, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Another of the stragglers reaches 60 geo-stubs. Another speedy... Grutness...wha? 12:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
The country's name still makes me think it should be a jazz band, but there are now the required 60 geo-stubs for this to be another speedy. Grutness...wha? 11:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 60 articles that link to Template:Tl, which should be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Northeastern United States radio station stubs. Per previous precedent, I am speedy creating. - JPG-GR (talk) 02:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 69 articles that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Southern United States radio station stubs. - Dravecky (talk) 21:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 66 articles that link to Template:Tl (with more still to be tagged), which should be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Western United States radio station stubs. Per previous precedent, I am speedy creating. - JPG-GR (talk) 21:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

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Nigeria-writer-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
I propose Template:Tl, in Category:Nigerian people stubs and Category:African writer stubs, as I counted ~40 writers in the former (I'm sure there are a good deal of them without Template:Tl, too). Other, less numerous occupations were musicians, 26; actors, 12; royalty, 19; and artists, 7. I neglected to count lawyers and businesspeople, but don't think there were more than 30 of either. Anyways, all but writers can wait till later. Picaroon (t) 02:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Certainly sounds like it's worth an upmerged template, with a category to follow if it's confirmed that there are 60. Grutness...wha? 05:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
I have been tidying up the NRHP stubs, created a few upmerged templates, and now see that the above will be viable when I'm done re-sorting (maybe by tomorrow). Permission to speedy? Her Pegship (tis herself) 20:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 60 articles that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Southern United States radio station stubs. - Dravecky (talk) 18:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Speedy create per nom and precedent. I count 61 at the moment. JPG-GR (talk) 03:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
54 figure skaters and 70+ others that could be tagged with Template:Tl propose cat and template. Waacstats (talk) 13:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

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split of Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.

are all viable, all have over 60 stubs and in may senses they make more sense than a UK cat as this is how they compete internationally. (nb Northern&Republic Ireland play together and we already have a cat for these and it may help in getting NI articles into that cat). Waacstats (talk) 11:49, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 72 articles (with more on the way) that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Northeastern United States radio station stubs. - Dravecky (talk) 21:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Sounds speediable to me. Go for it. Grutness...wha? 23:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks. Done. - Dravecky (talk) 07:32, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was withdrawn, consensus appears against the proposal.
I propose {{child-actor-stub}}. There is a category, Child actors, as of my writing, there are over 150 articles, many of which are stubs under a generic {{tv-actor-stub}}. Yngvarr 15:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

  • What I'm not seeing is a need, or a utility. We split actors by country, thereafter by medium, and where necessary by DoB. Another axis would seem to be further complicate matters, with little benefit. Alai (talk) 17:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Well, my posting belies my attitude. I'm unconcerned either way. I was cleaning up some Cartoon Network stuff, and when I noticed that there were quite a number of entries in the category, most of them stubbed, I figured I'd send it up for req, as there appears to be some sort of need. Yngvarr 19:12, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  • One concern I have with it (and - for that point, with the equivalent permanent category) is that many actors start off as child actors and remain actors when they become adults. the question then becomes whether to categorise them in this way. In the permcat, for instance, I can see Natalie Wood but no Roddy McDowell or Elizabeth Taylor. Bonnie Langford's there, but not Hayley Mills or Dean Stockwell. It all seems a little arbitrary from one point of view, and from another will just add an extra stub template to already categorised stubs. Grutness...wha? 22:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I actually considered that as I posted my req, but I had (and have) no real answer, which is why I was silent on the matter. There could be a discussion regarding how many continue their childhood acting careers into adulthood, versus those that "remain" (or are stereotypically) a child-actor (Shirley Temple), but I still don't have an answer! I suppose it would be up to the maintainers of the articles to consider when the actor has sufficiently "grown up". Adding and removing from cats and/or stubs is a fairly routine process. Yngvarr 22:25, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Well, the five day period has passed and consensus appears to be against this, so I will withdraw and close. Yngvarr 23:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Catscan gives 80+ of these in various sports categories propose Template:Tl and above cat. Waacstats (talk) 08:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
61 articles have Template:Tl. Time for a category? Waacstats (talk) 10:07, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Yo. Alai (talk) 01:07, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
...and another one reaches 60. This was more sorting than creating new ones, but I couldn't let AH have all the fun :) Grutness...wha? 06:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
AKA "AlbertHerring strikes again". Just squeaking by, there (62 or 63, according to my count). --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 21:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

"No more till next Saturday", huh? :) Grutness...wha? 04:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Well...the keyboard was so lonely, I felt it my duty to help relieve its boredom. Or...something. Yeah. --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 05:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
over 60 articels propose Template:Tl and abve category.Waacstats (talk) 15:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Support this one :) SeveroTC 22:17, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
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Regional subcategories for Canada-radio-stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
(No objection was noted. Bearcat (talk) 20:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC))

Template:Cl (or Template:Cl)
Template:Cl (or Template:Cl)

Radio stub notices have previously been created for each Canadian province and territory. Subcategories were created for Ontario and Quebec; however, the other 11 templates file directly up to the parent Category:Canadian radio station stubs due to insufficient numbers. However, if those remaining templates were grouped into two regional subcategories, the numbers would certainly be there: a regional Atlantic Canada category would have 120 stubs, and a regional Western Canada category would have 185 (with the added bonus that because the Western region also has by far the largest number of radio stations in Canada that are still redlinks on Wikipedia, it will get close to 250 by the time it's fully populated.)

So this is my proposal: the New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland stub notices file to a new regional subcategory for Atlantic Canada, and the Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia, Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut stub notices file to a new regional subcategory for Western Canada. This is, for what it's worth, almost exactly the standard regional division scheme used in Canada for regionally-oriented topics. (Well, in most contexts the territories would actually be grouped as a separate Northern Canada region, but the numbers aren't really there to support that as a category...although I certainly wouldn't object if people were willing to create it on the grounds of consistency and completeness within an organized subcategorization scheme :-) Bearcat (talk) 01:19, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

  • A question - how does Atlantic Canada differ from the Maritimes, and would Maritime Canada be a more logical name? Grutness...wha? 06:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
"Maritimes" refers only to the provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island. It would be the logical name if Newfoundland were kept separate, but if a category's meant to contain all four provinces the name has to be Atlantic Canada (or Atlantic provinces). It's a confusing and seemingly arbitrary distinction, I admit, but so many things in the world are... Bearcat (talk) 07:34, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Though since we have articles on each of the above terms, that make those definitions and distinctions explicit, not a confusion that should stymie anyone for unreasonably long. Alai (talk) 03:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
I should perhaps get a life, no? --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 21:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Heh - are you trying to do me out of a job? :) If you're interested in having a go at any of the rest, there's a list of them at User:Grutness/Geo-stub tallying (though I'd defy anyone to get 60 geo-stubs on the Vatican City!) There are still a number of Caribbean and Oceanian ones still to go. Grutness...wha? 23:10, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Er...well, perhaps not until next Saturday - another quiet day at work with a computer. Besides, I think I've done about enough for one week...--User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 00:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
:) Don't expect you to do any more - you've done tons. It was a "just in case", and gives a list of all the un-split countries. Grutness...wha? 01:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Hello. Again. (It fits, I promise.) --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 21:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Just over 100 articles are in both Template:Cl and Template:Cl (although only 65 match Template:Cl and Template:Cl). Already similar stubs for Belgium, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain and the US. SeveroTC 20:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Seen as I've proposed UK above better support this one. Waacstats (talk) 21:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
'S'me again. It's over sixty, I know; how far over I'm not sure, I'm afraid, but I've done enough today to push it past the mark. --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 17:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

  • 100, according to whatlinkshere on the upmerged template. I think we can safely speedy (re)creation of the category. Alai (talk) 17:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
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Categories for Iranian provinces (geo)

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The result of the debate was create.
a while back, all of iran's 30 provinces were given their own upmerged geo-stubs. Fars has now become the third to reach 60 stubs, so I'd like to propose the speediable Template:Cl.

Isfahan province is also close to target (in the high 50s stubs), but faces the problem that the permcatting of iranian provinces is patchy and incomplete - only 13 of them have their own categories, so hunting for the last three or four stubs to get that one up to target is likely to be difficult, as is permcat-parenting. Grutness...wha? 03:25, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

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Split of Template:Tl

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The result of the debate was create.
Category now has nearly 600 total pages and, with only 14 Administrative divisions of Burma, it would seem that more than a couple could use their own categories. Propose templates for all, categories for those over 60.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 22:26, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

This was approved earlier in January; double-speedy go for it. Her Pegship (tis herself) 23:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Question on the names: Should it be ShanState-geo-stub or Shan-geo-stub?
Counter-question: Is there another Shan it could be confused with? Answer - yes: anywhere occupied by the Shan people. Therefore, the solution is ShanState-geo-stub, in the same way as we have BasqueCountry-geo-stub. Grutness...wha? 23:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
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Hawaiʻi history

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The result of the debate was take to sfd.
Er...I didn't know there was a procedure necessary, so I went off and created a stub template and category for Hawaiian history, as there are definitely a number of articles and sections that could probably use such a tag. In any case, I would propose that such a stub category and template is useful and has an appropriate number of relevant articles. I'll go count in the Hawaii stub section to see how many are really relevant, and report back here. If someone administrative wants to delete (and then possibly recreate) the existing ones I just made, please feel free. My apologies for not following procedure, which I promptly found after doing the deed! More shortly on the number of relevant articles. Davidlwilliamson (talk) 08:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Scratch this request - after some brief discussion within the Hawaii Wikiproject, I think we'd rather use some other tagging method than using stub labels. I guess I can just remove this entire section, but I'll leave it here for posterity - so much to learn about procedures for new things! I'll request speedy deletion for the cruft I created this evening. Again, apologies for the mess. Davidlwilliamson (talk) 08:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
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Upmerged cycling biography templates

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The result of the debate was create.
Three countries have between 30 and 60 articles:

Propose upmerged templates for these. SeveroTC 16:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

  • .ch templates use Switzerland-, not Swiss, per the general rule of nounal forms, rather than adjectival. (A redirect might be fairly harmless.) Otherwise, speedy. Alai (talk) 03:16, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
    • I knew that, but didn't type it... must not have been thinking straight! Thanks for the correction! SeveroTC 02:00, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
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Upmerged athletics tempaltes

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The result of the debate was create.
4 countries each have 30+ articles propose the following upmerged templates

Waacstats (talk) 13:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

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Split of Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
I propose the following

also proposed UK above. These are handcounts from Template:Cl and I am sure others will follow when I check the relevant national categories. Waacstats (talk) 13:58, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

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Split of Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was wait on "hoops"; create the rest.
The following are hand counts

we may want to create Template:Tl / Template:Cl – (77) instead of the snooker category. Why we have both a motorcycle-racing and a motorcycle-sport is on January 08 discoveries and I am happy to postpone this till that is sorted if people wish. Waacstats (talk) 13:58, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The *-hoops-* stubs are up at SFD for a rename to *-basketball-* so I'd hold off on that one until it is clear whether it should be created as Template:Tl instead. Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
And another country reached a speediable 60 geo-stubs. Grutness...wha? 11:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create as Euphorbia-stub/Euphorbia stubs.
The Category:Euphorb stubs (plants that are members of family Euphorbiaceae currently has 527 articles in it, of which 268 (just over half!) are all members of genus Euphorbia. Plants of this genus are called "spurges", and I propose a stub category for the 268 spurge stubs currently sitting in Category:Euphorb stubs. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Support, but as for naming... this one's a tricky one. The article's at [{Spurge]], but the category is at Template:Cl. The article confuses things more by starting with "The spurges make up Euphorbia, a very diverse genus of plants, belonging to the spurge family (Euphorbiaceae)." From which I'd suspect that the term spurge can be used for the whole of euphorbiaceae, meaning Template:Cl might be a better name. Grutness...wha? 02:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  • As Grutness just pointed out before I could save my own comment, the problem is, the family is also called the spurge family, so I'm doubtful that the proposed name is sufficiently clear. Recommend using Template:Tl / Template:Cl instead and sending the existing stub type to SFD to be renamed as Template:Tl / Template:Cl. This also would have the side benefit of having the stub categories match the permanent categories in name. Caerwine Caer’s whines 03:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Support at name that follows the permcat. A template redirect would seem sensible, though, given the location of the article. Alai (talk) 06:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 60 articles that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Northeastern United States radio station stubs. - Dravecky (talk) 12:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Speedy. Alai (talk) 06:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Done. Thanks again! - Dravecky (talk) 14:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
Last proposal for now

Waacstats (talk) 23:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Support - ands the same for all the others below. Grutness...wha? 03:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl split

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The result of the debate was create.
I propose the following

Waacstats (talk) 23:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl split

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The result of the debate was create.
Tidying up another sport bio cat I propose

Waacstats (talk) 23:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
As with the other sports I propose

Waacstats (talk) 23:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
The first one really suprised me.

Waacstats (talk) 23:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl split

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The result of the debate was create.
Propose the following

figures are a hand count as something seems to be wrong with catscan. Waacstats (talk) 22:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 66 articles (with more on the way) that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Southern United States radio station stubs. - Dravecky (talk) 23:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Speedy. Alai (talk) 01:39, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks, done. And that's the last of the Southern US radio station stubs that can be sorted geographically given that Washington D.C., the last remaining geographical division, will never reach the 60-article threshold. - Dravecky (talk) 02:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
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West Virginia geography stubs

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The result of the debate was create by map regions.

File:West Virginia Counties for Stubs.png

Category:West Virginia geography stubs contains nearly 800 articles in this state of 55 counties. It would seem that a system of upmerged county-geo-stubs, done along the lines of Ohio and California. We can easily discuss here where to make the regional boundaries for the categories. Nyttend (talk) 13:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps we could base the regions on this state-produced regional map (found on this state department of transportation website), or using it in conjunction with the state's metro areas? Nyttend (talk) 02:24, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
The *SAs do seem to be of limited value here, and unfortunately, the largest one overlaps the above regions. I'd be OK with using those regions if there's some evidence of their being widely accepted. (Which looking at our own articles on some of those, does appear to be the case.) Alai (talk) 18:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Here's an easier-to-understand map, based directly upon the WVDOT map that I linked already. If we decide that other boundaries than these should be used, please modify the map accordingly. Nyttend (talk) 15:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Tl

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The result of the debate was keep.
I propose {{Iran-writer-stub}}. There are a lot articles about Iranian writers, translators, and poets which are stub. I'm not sure about the number of them, but gonna mark them in the next few days, and they you can decide about it. I didn't know I have to porpose a template first and then make it. I've created it, and gonna propose it to WPSS too. Thanks in advance. Behnam (talk) 12:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Well, so far, the number would appear to be 'five'. Suggest we upmerge this, and delete Template:Cl until the population is more viable. Alai (talk) 03:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Note that this is a continuation of discussion at SFD after the creation of Iranian-writer-stub (currently up for renaming. I'm beginning to think we need to specify that something up for renaming should be left well enough alone until the SFD discussion has finished - rather than suddenly have a renamed version crop up in the middle of discussion to further cloud the issue. Grutness...wha? 00:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
  • The category is now at 85 and the template has been corrected; suggest we retroactively approve and close. Her Pegship (tis herself) 16:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus.
Recently, I created the page of Peekskill High School basketball coach Lou Panzanaro, and I could not find a stub catagory to list it in. There are plenty of well-known high school coaches.--RandomGuy 9929 (talk) 14:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Doesn't sound like an appropriate axis of split to me. Customarily, we do this by sport, so in this case, you're looking for Template:Tl. Alai (talk) 18:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
    • However, I think it is well past time for us to reconsider using the "hoops" abbreviation for basketball. It certainly is not intuitive for casual stub sorters. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
      • I agree, I was for a moment struggling to recall why there was no Template:Tl, etc, myself. I'd keep the hoops- names as redirects, but move 'em all.
      • Perhaps we should also have a top-level Template:Tl, given the hierarchical structure of the name, and as a catch-all. Alai (talk) 19:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
        • What, across all sports? I don't think that's necessarily a good idea, especially since in many sports a coach is usually an ex-player. In any case, as time has gone on, we've had other cases where the root is the first term not the middle term (we don't have Template:Tl as a parent for Template:Tl and the like, for instance). I agree that "hoops" has long since needed looking at - it's not the most intuitive term. Grutness...wha? 23:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
          • I don't see why the first point argues against a coach-stub, when it hasn't put us off creating several <sport>-coach-stub templates. We do have cases where we have pseudo-hierarchical names with the 'wrong' order, just for the sake of naturalness of reading, but here the double-parenting seems to make organisational sense. term- isn't necessarily the best example, though, since it'd be essentially the same thing as Template:Tl. Alai (talk) 03:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl split

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The result of the debate was no consensus.
There are right now 435 articles in this category (and the number is growing) I suggest splitting them into stub-types for each one of the 48 Provinces of Algeria (top-level subdivisions) as for the suggestion below for Burmese geography stubs. --escondites 09:41, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, so having stub-templates for each subdivision until now is not necessary, because some have only 3-5 articles about them, and some have 30-50 articles about them, so I suggest creating stub-templates for the latter part. You can see the subcategories of Category:Provinces of Algeria and decide which one should have a stub-template or not... --escondites 06:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Could be done, but it's hardly at the priority stage yet - we wouldn't really be thinking of splitting them up until there are close to 800, and I don't think it's growing that fast. A current average of only nine stubs per template is a little thin, too, to say the least. Grutness...wha? 09:49, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm by no means opposed to this, but for the reasons Grutness mentions, I wouldn't anticipate taking any action on it myself. However, the 48 top-level subdivisions will clearly present a problem, if and when the current category does hit 800: it's unlikely any of them will be remotely close to 60. Ideally, we'd do some "lumping" by larger regions, whether officially-defined or commonly-recognised, but I've no idea what those might be in this case. (Regions of Algeria is a redlink, disappointingly...) Alai (talk) 15:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
    • The provinces are the largest "regions" in Algeria. --escondites 06:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
      • That would appear to be a somewhat "unusual" situation, then. Especially for a country with such blitheringly obvious regions of physical geography. Look at the arrangement for the various US categories that are split by USCB regions, for comparison. So what does that make fr:Oranie, then? If you're correct about this, however, that there are Absolutely No Regions Whatsoever, then there's little benefit to creating templates that won't be able to be used to populate anything at all, until the whole shebang's vastly larger than it is at present. Alai (talk) 13:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
        • Oranie is an informal historical term used during colonial times to denote all of the western part of Algeria north of the Sahara, and is not at all comparable to terms like the Midwest or anything like that, and the "physical" regions do not have offical definitions. --escondites 16:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
          • That's not the definition it's given in fr: (vague though that is). As I said, "commonly recognised" will suffice. Alai (talk) 16:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create.
There are currently 73 articles that link to Template:Tl, which I believe to be sufficient to warrant these particular stubs getting their own category, a sub-category of Category:Radio station stubs. Also, would this category be the logical new parent for Template:Cl, Template:Cl, and Template:Cl? It seems so to me but I think discussion is called for. - Dravecky (talk) 09:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

All that is true, but most of those are for satellite radio stations, so the question is whether it would be a good idea to split out satellite radio stations on a separate axis. If we did, then except as a holding category, we'd have no need for this category at this time. Caerwine Caer’s whines 21:16, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't have a count, but would a Template:Tl be viable? It sounds more and more like it's desirable. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Easily. Most of the articles stubbed with Template:Tl and {{tl}Canada-radio-station-stub}} instead of a provincial or state level stub are for satellite radio stations. Indeed, we might wish to have upmerged templates Template:Tl and {{tl}Canada-satellite-radio-station-stub}} so as to avoid double stubbing. Plus there other satellite radio stations not broadcasting to/from North America. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I'd happily support some sort of stub for satellite stations to clean up the categories for terrestrial broadcasters but still think that a North American category is called for to parallel the European, Asian, and Oceania stub categories. - Dravecky (talk) 03:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Since there's no proposal for satellite types, I suggest we go ahead with this one as proposed. Her Pegship (tis herself) 20:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Tl

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The result of the debate was create upmerged template.
Around thirty pages that can use the stub, the ones that are tagged have to currently use two different stub tags.--The Dominator (talk) 17:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Once there are 60, I'll support it, although at 30 it seems an upmerged template would work. Her Pegship (tis herself) 19:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
  • An upmerged template certainly sounds like a good idea - at least it will reduce the number of stub templates on the pages, and with 30 already, it's possible that the number will eventually be splittable. Grutness...wha? 23:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Sorry for being an idiot, but what is an upmerged template?--The Dominator (talk) 03:49, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Heh - don't worry, it's "stub-speak". All stub templates assign stubs to categories. In ost cases, each template has a specific category with exactly the same subject area. In cases where there a below-threshold number of stubs (i.e., <60), the template moves stubs into larger, more general stub categories - in this case Caste stubs and Czech building and structure stubs. Later on, once we know there are 60 stubs, it can get its own specific category (see also Wikipedia:Glossary#Upmerge). Grutness...wha? 03:59, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create upmerged template.
As a member of WikiProject:Taiwan, I have discovered that many Taiwanese companies are stubs (See List of companies in Taiwan or Category:Companies of Taiwan), and I can't find a stub that fits this, all I can find was {{Taiwan-stub}}. Jkj115 01:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

  • As with the above - certainly sounds like it's worth an upmerged template, with a category to follow if it's confirmed that there are 60. Grutness...wha? 05:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
    • I have found at least 75 stubs, see Taiwanese Companies Stub ListJkj115 00:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
      • I can't help notice that many of those not only have no existing stub tag, but are a tad on the lengthy side to be considered stubs on a cursory viewing. The upmerged template for the time being might be the more prudent option. Alai (talk) 02:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
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Split of Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was create by province.
This category is barely over 800 stubs now. There are 24 provinces (and 1 autonomous city) with 6 regions that they are usually combined into. Recommend we create 24 or 25 templates using regional categories to group them if there are no regions with 60 stubs now. The only question whether to have separate templates for Buenos Aires Province and the autonomous city of Buenos Aires. Caerwine Caer’s whines 03:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Seems fairly straightforward. Personally I could live without the separate BAs, unless both turn out to be in fairly heavy use. Alai (talk) 04:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
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