Wiki143:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries/Log/2007/June

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Newly discovered, June 2007

Template:Tl / Template:Cl

New unproposed stub type from User:Ryulong. Seems to be moderately well populated (about 40 stubs). Plausibly useful. Grutness...wha? 00:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment, based on a quick check this can easily be populated to reach 60 stubs. --Kslotte (talk) 19:07, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment, I went trough and verified stub status for the articles. The total is 52 articles. An upmerged stub type would be solution here. But, we need to find proper parent categories. --Kslotte (talk) 21:34, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Template:Tl

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The result of the debate was send to WP:CFD

No cat, handful of stubs, wikiproject. Alai 00:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

To add to the concerns, Youngstown is a dab page. Let's face it, this is a city of 80,000 people - what would stub sorting be like if every city of that size had a separate stub type. How many stub types would that be for the US alone? Surely the Wikiproject would be better served with a talk-page banner, and this would be best sent to SFD. Grutness...wha? 01:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
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Template:Tl / Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed, no stub or permcat parents, but plenty of stubs. Or, rather, plenty of articles - a few of these don't seem to be stubs. Wouldn't have been my choice for a split, but then again the term reggaeton is rarely used (and the style rarely heard) in this part of the world. A case of clearing out any non-stubs and seeing what we have left, by the looks of it. Grutness...wha? 02:36, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

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Template:Tl / Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed, no stub or permcat parents, no stubs currently, but this is at least a logical split. Probably a case of sorting and if necessary upmerging. Grutness...wha? 02:36, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I created this stub tag because there are other ones such as Template:Tl, Template:Tl and others for individual countries/nations so I thinks its acceptable for the United Kingdom to have one, I apologise for creating this without consensus as I didnt realise they have to be discussed here. Regards --The Sunshine Man 14:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
It is a logical split in terms of subject matter - the main concern is size. Unlike permanent categories, which can be of any size, there's a threshold level before a stub category is created of 60 current stubs (due to the different purposes of stub categoriues from main categories). I'm sure there won't be any problems with this one if it reaches 60 stubs - which it's likely to - but if it falls short of that it might not be worth having a separate category. The category also needs a bit of tidying up, as I noted earlier. Grutness...wha? 01:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
We should have the template at least (though probably canonicalise it to Template:Tl, leaving the redirect). This might require some work to populate, since existing article are likely to be scattered hither and yon (theat-, euro-theat-, <county>-geo-, etc), but I'm sure it's in theory doable. If it's not happening in practice, upmerge. Alai 16:04, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
They're not likely to be among the geo-stubs, A. struct-stubs, maybe. Grutness...wha? 00:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Oh, you'd be surprised... Alai 13:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
As theatre stubs had creeped into the oversized bracket, I populated this from Template:Cl. That's scoping on the basis of 'the theatre' though, as distinct from just 'theatres'. Alai 13:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Update: Now contains 74 items and the template has been properly redirected. Her Pegship (tis herself) 03:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
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Template:Tl / Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was redirected to ElectronicArts-stub

Never proposed, currently has three stubs. A whole host of parent categories to this cat, though surprisingly not Template:Cl, which I would have thought was the obvious one. Looking in Template:Cl reveals only 67 articles in total, so this would require 90% of those articles to be stubs before the stub category reached the required level. Looks like a clear case of upmerging to me... Grutness...wha? 01:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

You are right. I am sorry I created this stub without proposing. I didn't know that was needed, and I saw other stub types like for instance the Doom Stub, so I figured a Maxis stub was possible to.

Again I am sorry for any inconvenience :-) --Jort227 15:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I've proposed to rename this and Template:Tl at Wikipedia:Stub_types_for_deletion/Log/2007/July/16, to Template:Tl and Template:Tl (respectively) JohnnyMrNinja 08:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
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Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was send to WP:CFD

We already tried and failed to delete some of the flakier templates associated with this, but so far as I know we've never considered this unproposed four article cat itself. (Someone explain to me why sensibly-sized anime sub-types are proposed, the WPJ locals poo-poo them en masse as being "too many stub types", and then we get stuff like this.) Alai 20:19, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

...and at the vey least get the ridiculous template name changed. Four stubs in over six months, though. It's clearly useless. Grutness...wha? 00:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Might have had quite a few more stubs not too long ago. The individual episodes used to have articles (one shared a title with a Joe McDoakes short which is why I noticed) but then they got either merged or deleted by a mass AfD. Still, that was then this is now and five stubs is way too few. Delete Caerwine Caer’s whines 03:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Ah, OK, that makes sense. Now, if someone would only do the same for about 1000 more anime stubs (and keep on doing it, as required). Alai 13:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
If that's so, then it's not quite as useless as I though. No longer needed, though, by the looks... upmerge and corrct the template names? Grutness...wha? 10:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a "canonical" template, Template:Tl (well, canonical give or take a hyphen, anyway), you just wouldn't think it to look at it. The template you're objecting to is one of those we previously considered, as noted above. Alai 13:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
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Template:Tl/Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed, but looks well-formed (it even has proper category parents, which makes a nice change!). Only 20 stubs though. Probably useful, but looks like a case of "populate or upmerge". Grutness...wha? 10:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Hm - seems I was wrong about the well-formed bit - Valentinian has pointed out to me that it should be Template:Cl. Yet again, this is something that actual proposal would have sorted out. Grutness...wha? 00:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

There are many articles about schools in Malaysia which are stubs. Not much proper information are provided in these articles. So I figure a new stub category would be really helpful to improve these articles.Horacenew 10:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Upmerge template, delete category until it reaches threshold (it's at 41 now). Her Pegship (tis herself) 04:24, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Update: Now at 51 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 20:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep, now at 57 articles that is almost 60. Let's finish this case. --Kslotte (talk) 15:42, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment, now at 60 articles with help of intersection scan with Asia. --Kslotte (talk) 15:42, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
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Template:Tl / Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was send to WP:CFD

Rather small, obvious NG issues. Perhaps rename to Template:Tl, and upmerge to Template:Cl, or indeed split out the Paris département into its own geography cat. Alai 04:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Standard would be Template:Tl, since road is used for both urban roads and rural streets (or vice versa) due to different naming standards in different countries. And if we were going to upmerge it, I'd suggest a separate Template:Cl or Template:Cl (depending on standard naming) that it could go into, rather than mixing it in with geo-stubs (road stubs aren't really part of the geo-stub hierarchy). Grutness...wha? 01:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
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Template:Tl

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The result of the debate was send to WP:CFD

See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals#New_Stub for details, and for an example of how not to propose a stub :/ Grutness...wha? 01:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

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Template:Tl / Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed, but seems a reasonable split - already has 80 stubs. Unfortunately, the category is badly named (note the capital C). If kept (which, as I said, seems reasonable) it will need a (probably speediable) renaming. The cat also has no non-stub parents, but that's easily fixable. Grutness...wha? 00:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I created this stub. I didn't realise I should have proposed it first, sorry. There were (and still are, I haven't moved everyone yet) lots and lots of articles about companies in the regular Fashion stubs category, making it harder to distinguish between these and those that deal with some piece of clothing etc. Also, I wanted to be able to link a category like this to the Company stub category too. I fix the capital C. -*Ulla* 01:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
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Template:Tl / redlinked

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed stub type which is never likely to get more than 78 articles, even if every card is a stub (and they aren't - I extended a couple well beyond stub status myself). Also more than adequately covered by other stub types. At best, this should be upmerged but given that currently accepted stub types aren't exactly in need of splitting and this is hardly likely to stay close to split size for long or ever get there again, perhaps it's not needed at all. Grutness...wha? 02:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

  • A lot of these stubs look marginal in and of themselves: put me in the post-AFD "merge" camp, at least for the ones that are very short, repeat information between themselves, etc. Since these articles seem to be largely about the divination aspect, upmerge the template to Template:Cl. (Which technically we don't need to take to SFD, since the cat's a redlink.) Alai 03:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
    • I must admit I was surprised to see separate articles on each card - the pip cards at least could be merged per suit for now at least. But that's not really within the scope of us here. I realise that a lot of the articles could eventually be expanded considerably (as I said, i did so myself on a couple of the major arcana cards articles), but it would take some effort with some of the minor pips. Grutness...wha? 03:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: I'm not really for or against this particular stub category, but thought I'd mention a few things. It's not clear that this is "never likely to get more than 78 articles" as the "proposer" of this unproposed stub type (i.e. User:Smiloid) has already used it to tag other pages like Visconti-Sforza tarot deck, Bonifacio Bembo, and Pamela Colman Smith. I have in the past personally deleted the {{card-game-stub}} tags that appeared on the minor arcana card articles as I didn't think that tag was suitable for them. I didn't believe that there was much more to add to those articles that would further justify the removal of that tag. (It is already mentioned that tarot cards are used to play Tarot card games in each of those articles. I don't, for example, see what could possibly be inserted into the "Game Usage" section of Eight of Coins or many of the other cards. The only particular card with a special function seems to be The Fool). I don't wish to put words into Smiloid's mouth, but he seems to believe that tagging the tarot card articles with {{occult-stub}} somehow violates WP:NPOV, and I think this is why he wanted to create a new stub for use on tarot card related articles. Craw-daddy 09:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
      • I think to deny that tarot cards are playing cards is POV. If we put "occult" stubs on the minor card articles, we should also have "playing card" or some similar stub. It is user User:Ptdecker who started puting the "card game" stubs to address POV concerns. This tarot stub that I've created is designed to be suitable for any tarot related article whether it is occult or card game related. I've chosen the Marseilles Fool as the image as the Marseilles tarot pertains to both tarot as a divinatory practice as well as a type of card game. It should also be upmerged to card game or playing card categories because tarot is not the exclusive property of the occult.Smiloid 00:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
        • I'm certainly not denying that tarot cards are playing cards. When have I said that? However, there's a perfectly valid category, namely [[Category:Playing cards]] that can be used to (help) classify these articles. Why not use that? As I've said, I can't see the justification for the {{card-game-stub}} tag as I don't think there's much to add to the articles that would later justify the removal of that particular stub tag. We shouldn't try to counteract (alleged or perceived) POV by using some other inappropriate stub tag that isn't fit for purpose in this case. It's the old "Two wrongs" argument that I'm stating here. Craw-daddy 23:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
          • Is there a playing card stub? I would agree this might be betterSmiloid 04:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
            • No, I don't believe there is a playing card stub. My suggestion, assuming something like this tarot card stub is okayed, is to have something like in Five of Wands, i.e. the tarot card stub tag and the [[Category:Playing cards]] category marker. This is essentially what I meant in my previous remark above. Craw-daddy 10:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Yes, I noticed that too. Still, it seems a little small at present, unless there's a large number of in-scope but untagged articles out there, so I'd still favour upmerging now, without prejudice to consideration of a separate category at a later date. Hopefully an upmerged tag is less objectionable than actual retagging. Alai 17:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
      • No it's a good template. I support keeping it. Previously the articles in question were marked as "magic-stubs" and I think it is POV to merge Tarot with Occult. Tarot is tarot, and not all divination is of an occult nature. I'm not an expert on the occult of course, but it seems to me that calling Tarot "occult" is like saying wicca is "witchcraft". Many people use tarot and other divinatory practices such as dowsing (for example) in day-to-day life, and I think if it needs a category it might be considered by some as witchcraft and some as something more akin to intuitive reading etc... I think merging it to a category is useless and potentially wasteful of discussion time. Tarot is certainly tarot, however you could have a big argument on whether it is occult practice or intuition. User:Pedant 22:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
        • The articles should, if anything, have been marked kabbalah-stub, due the the very strong links between Tarot and other kabbalistic . Certainly Tarot should not be marked with card-game stub, and occult-stub is highly questionable. Still, unless there are plans to create stubs for different Tarot decks - something which hasn't happened yet (and remember that stub templates are for existing stubs) - there is no way that this stub type will get the required number of stubs for a separate template/category combination. As such, it needs to be upmerged somewhere. As such, it is not merging it which is a potential waste of discussion time (check the standards required for new stub types at the top of WP:WSS/P). Blessed be, Grutness...wha? 05:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
          • Paint me pink and call me a hard-core naturalist, but I don't see how "divination" of any sort isn't necessarily "occult". But what Grutness and Maggie Thatcher said: the status quo isn't an option. Would either Template:Cl or Template:Cl be acceptable as an upmerger target? (By "upmerger" let's be clear that we would be keeping the template, just giving it a category that's a) blue, and b) is over the size threshold.) Alai 19:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
              • However not all of tarot is connected with divination or the occult. This tarot stub was devised to cover any tarot article whether or not it involves the occult. I have plans to start three tarot related articles; French suited tarot cards, Grosstarock, and tarocchi appropriati all of which have little if anything to do with the occult.Smiloid 07:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The links between tarot and Kabbalah are open to debate. A.E. Waite is quoted in Taropedia as expressing disbelief in the correspondence between the tarot trumps and the Hebrew letters.Smiloid 00:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

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Template:Tl / Cat:Maxis stubs

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The result of the debate was redirected to ElectronicArts-stub

Unproposed, created on 6 Jun 2007, has two articles. Pagrashtak 20:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
...and is already noted further up this page :) Grutness...wha? 01:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

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Template:Tl

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

An odd one this - a templat has just been made for one of our "parent-only" stub categories. It could potentially be useful, but I think upmerged country-sport-bio-stubs might be more so. Grutness...wha? 01:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Ideally we'd get rid of all the templates which feed into "upmerger target" stub categories with no corresponding permcats, but it must be said there's quite a lot of existing ones on the same pattern. Perhaps we should try to systematically replace and deprecate them all as a first step. Alai 18:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: Per a lot of precedent at WP:CFD, there is no good rational for categorizing by continent instead of by nationality. It makes a lot more sense simply to have a stubs and probably bio stubs category/template for every country, and have country-specific sport-bio, politician, etc., ones when the number of stubs justifies them. A categorization of "European" is pretty useless. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
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Template:Tl / (redlinked)

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The result of the debate was upmerged

Unproposed, and used on 17 articles. There is a Wikiproject Tajikistan, but this is far from their primary stub type (given that there are T-geo, T-bio, and T-standard), so 60 would be the threshold. The bio-stub categpory's nowhere near needing splitting, either (only 76 stubs). Probably useful double-upmerged, but not with a stand-alone category. Grutness...wha? 05:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Speedy upmerge, due to aforementioned present categorylessness. Alai 18:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
File:Yes check.svg Done I've cleaned up the code and it links to the proper categories now. Valentinian T / C 19:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
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no template / Template:Cl

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The result of the debate was send to WP:CFD

A bit small, but maybe there's a WPJ lurking someplace. Nonstandard scope. And nonstandard use of "naked category". Alai 17:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The category talks about Start-class articles, so I suspect this is a misnamed Template:Cl. Mind you, having categories simply named after an artist is frowned upon in general, and the only stub type connected to such articles is Template:Tl, which is connected to a very busy WikiProject. Othe than that we divide songs by genre and decade. If this category is connected to a WikiProject, it needs to be regularised (preferably as a non-stub type talk page template); if not, I'm not keen on it existing. Grutness...wha? 00:27, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
As Stub-Class articles categories are also template-populated, and are supposed to be used on talk pages, I can't say that it looks that way to me; but I've no idea what was in the creator's mind, and I'd have no objection if it were converted to a SCA cat (assuming there actually is a WPJ/TF of some kind). Alai 19:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
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