Wiki143:Suspected sock puppets/Morton devonshire

The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.
I'm closing this as there's really insufficient evidence presented here, and the conversation is veering away from the purpose of this venue -- Samir धर्म 02:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Morton devonshire

User:TheOnlyChoice is a sockpuppet of User:Morton devonshire, who was rather clumsy.

Morton is using a sockpuppet, as shown clearly from this edit, TheOnlyChoice signed his name "--unsigned by Morton devonshire" then the very next edit, User:Morton devonshire changed it to User:Morton devonshire. [1]

Other evidence:

User:Morton devonshire and User:TheOnlyChoice

1. Both users edit the same pages, and User:TheOnlyChoice launched immediatly into a AfD[2] [3] a page that User:Morton devonshire has edited before.
2. Both use the term POV cruft, a vague term. [4] [5]
3. User:TheOnlyChoice suggests another AfD. Then immediatly following, Morton devonshire warned everyone to avoid using sockpuppets, as if to take the heat away from him, [6]

Past behavior, boot log

23:54, 3 May 2006 Jtdirl (Talk | contribs) unblocked Morton devonshire (contribs) (mispresentation of WP policy by blocker) 22:35, 3 May 2006 Cyde (Talk | contribs) blocked "Morton devonshire (contribs)" with an expiry time of 24 hours (AfD vote-stacking, don't do it again)[7]

See converstation here.

Requests

• Can this user be booted for breaking wikipedia policy?
• Can he be banned from editing Allegations of state terrorism by United States of America?

Signed: Travb (talk) 00:36, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The interpretation of diff logs is wrong

• Comment your interpretation of diff logs needs to be improved. Let's look at the real history: 1st time. Here you see the same diff. Is your argument that Tony Fox is also a sock puppet? What is happening is someone is removing MD's signature and he is simply replacing it. There is no evidence of sockpuppetry. As his comment says: Please stop harassing him. Here is the Orginal Edit. It is unsigned but clearly from MD. Someone put "unsigned by MD" later and MD corrected it with the real signature. People who can read diff logs will see this. There is no evidence of Sock Puppetry. --Tbeatty 01:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
• I am also surprised that you haven't seen the term "POV cruft" more often that you think it's rare.--Tbeatty 01:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Tbeatty is not telling the truth, here is the proof

You are not telling the truth. You are using a common trick, adding two distant edits to make it look like something else.

Here is the entire edit history:

• (cur) (last) 23:26, 18 August 2006 Travb (Talk | contribs) (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny)
• (cur) (last) 22:32, 18 August 2006 Morton devonshire (Talk | contribs) (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny)
• (cur) (last) 22:31, 18 August 2006 Morton devonshire (Talk | contribs) (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny - please do not harass me)
• (cur) (last) 22:29, 18 August 2006 Tony Fox (Talk | contribs) (→Afd? - - erm...)
• (cur) (last) 22:20, 18 August 2006 Rootology (Talk | contribs) (do not remove other people's comments.)
• (cur) (last) 22:18, 18 August 2006 Morton devonshire (Talk | contribs) (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny - my mistake)
• (cur) (last) 22:07, 18 August 2006 TheOnlyChoice (Talk | contribs) (Afd?)
• (cur) (last) 22:03, 18 August 2006 Paraphelion (Talk | contribs) (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny)
• (cur) (last) 21:58, 18 August 2006 Seabhcan (Talk | contribs) (→Ganser and ST911.org - moved discussion from my talk page)
• (cur) (last) 21:55, 18 August 2006 Seabhcan (Talk | contribs) (→Ganser and ST911.org)
• (cur) (last) 21:21, 18 August 2006 Morton devonshire (Talk | contribs) m (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny)
• (cur) (last) 21:21, 18 August 2006 Morton devonshire (Talk | contribs) (→Sources - Using Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny From Other Editors)
• (cur) (last) 22:03, 18 August 2006 Paraphelion (Talk | contribs) (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny)
• (cur) (last) 21:58, 18 August 2006 Seabhcan (Talk | contribs) (→Ganser and ST911.org - moved discussion from my talk page)
• (cur) (last) 21:55, 18 August 2006 Seabhcan (Talk | contribs) (→Ganser and ST911.org)
• (cur) (last) 21:21, 18 August 2006 Morton devonshire (Talk | contribs) m (→Use of Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny)
• (cur) (last) 21:21, 18 August 2006 Morton devonshire (Talk | contribs) (→Sources - Using Sockpuppets to Avoid Scrutiny From Other Editors)
• (cur) (last) 21:12, 18 August 2006 NYCJosh (Talk | contribs) (→My suggestion, hybrid of Trav's: Terrorism in the United States)

What User:Tbeatty wrote:

• Comment your interpretation of diff logs needs to be improved. Let's look at the
  real history: 1st time. Here you see the same diff. Is your argument that Tony Fox is also a sock puppet? What is happening is someone is removing MD's signature and he is simply replacing it. There is no evidence of sockpuppetry.
  As his comment says: Please stop harassing him.
  Here is the Orginal Edit. It is unsigned but clearly from MD. Someone put "unsigned by MD" later and MD corrected it with the real signature. People who can read diff logs will see this. There is no evidence of Sock Puppetry.
  --Tbeatty 01:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

My contention is:

[8] In green above.

User:Tbeatty is a liar, this statment is completely false:

• • Then go to your reference and below left side of TheOnlyChoice's edit there is a link called "Older Edit". Click it and you will get this. On the right you will see what "TheOnlyChoice" added in that edit. He didn't add "unsigned" or having anything to do with the signature. You are incorrect to imply that the two edits were linked. They are clearly not linked either in section or content. --Tbeatty 02:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment your interpretation of diff logs needs to be improved. Let's look at the

real history: 1st time. Here you see the same diff. Is your argument that Tony Fox is also a sock puppet? What is happening is someone is removing MD's signature and he is simply replacing it.

He is attempting to confuse those who review Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets, by using a section which has nothing to do with the alleged sock puppet. I am going to report this to the admin board. Travb (talk) 01:32, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Morton's an asshole, but I don't see what TheOnlyChoice's edit has to do with any of this.--Paraphelion 01:58, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: Paraphelion calling some one an AHole is uncivil please doing do it. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 02:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Please stop with the personal attacks. I didn't call you a liar or any other names (as you have done to me) as I assume your Sockpuppet accusation is in good faith. You are simply wrong in your interpretation of the diff log. You are interpreting red marks on the left side of the diff log as somehow being relevant to the left side user. That is not an indication that they are related. Simply going to two previous diffs will show that. You are wrong and you should remove your request. --Tbeatty 02:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Assaults On My Character

I emphatically deny that I am User:TheOnlyChoice, and quite frankly I am tired of Travb's attempts to have me punished. Please run a checkuser on me and User:TheOnlyChoice -- go ahead. We are not the same person. As Clint would say: Go ahead punk, make my day!  : ) Morton devonshire 01:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Then why did User:TheOnlyChoice sign his name "--unsigned by Morton devonshire" [9] ironically in a message about sockpuppets? Then 11 minutes later User:Morton devonshire (yourself) state "my mistake" and add signed name?[10] Why did you right my mistake Morty?

I have seen it in court cases on television: the defended screams "assualt on my character" right up until he is convicted. This is the only evidence you can provide, an accusation that this is an "Assault On My Character"? Travb (talk) 01:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

You are simply incorrect. The paragraph was clearly added by MD. Your mistake is that User:TheOnlyChoice even added the "unsigned". Diff logs show differences but only the edits on the right can be definitively attributed to an editor. Go to the previous diffs here and you clearly can see that TheOnlyChoice didn't add unsigned. You cannot read diffs and are making an incorrect and unfounded accusation. --Tbeatty 01:22, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Tbeatty you are not telling the truth (see above). I am going to report you to the admin, for defending an alleged sockpuppeter with a false history logs. Travb (talk) 01:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Travb you are in error and you are not assuming good faith on this issue. TBeatty is telling you the truth. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 01:46, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The only really troubling diff I'm seeing is the unsigned template issue. We should be willinng to just chalk that off as an error and assume good faith. I would not block at this stage. alphaChimp ^laudare 02:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Walkthrough

1. Morton posts sockpuppet policy and does not sign it [11]
2. Paraphelion adds unsigned to the post and comments that Morton should have signed it [12]
3. TheOnlyChoice posts AfD comment [13]
4. Morton signs his original post that Paraphelion added unsigned tag to [14]
5. Rootology removed Mortons signature and puts back unsigned, not really sure why.

[15]

It probably has something to do with Rootology's edit comment for this edit - namely that Morton removed other people's comments. He probably just reverted.--Paraphelion 01:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

1. Tony Fox commenting on AfD section post from TheOnlyChoice [16]
2. Morton resigns his original post [17]
3. Morton posts "uhh yeah" in reponse to paraphelions comment about him not signing. [18]
4. Trav comments in reply to morton, that morton wrote that, the comment at this point is self signed by morton he acknowledges he wrote it and has signed it now 3 times. [19]
5. Trav insults a group of editors (sorry had to include this) [20]
6. Trav moves around my comments, you really shouldnt do this btw. [21]
7. Trav replies to himself asking Morton why he brings up sockpuppets [22]
8. Trav eludes one of the "deletionists", rofl I love this term now, is a sockpuppet. [23]
9. Trav accuses Morton of being a sockpuppet because Morton mentioned them, then TheOnlyChoice posted about AfD ... I dont see the connection myself. [24]
10. Trav says Morton changed his name from TheOnlyChoice to Morton. [25]

I would like to point out that the evidence Trav posts is incorrect, because the statement being edited, shown above, is actually Morton signing his own post, not a post that was once signed TheOnlyChoice. Good Job Trav, please listen to those more experienced TBeatty was trying to educate you to how the difs work. --zero faults ^{|sockpuppets|} 01:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Morton here removed a comment from Paraphelion, and here I re-added the removed comment with an edit summary note to *not* remove other's comments per policy. It looks like quick RV to replace the improperly removed comment was too slow, and it caught Morton's sig. That was my edit--to restore the incorrectly removed comment. rootology (T) 01:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry removed my own comment, didnt read yours completly, this seems to be all a bit blown out of proportion by Trav, however it seems settled now. --zero faults ^{|sockpuppets|} 02:10, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Morton Deletes Other Users Comments On Talk Pages

Comment Section header says it all, in this edit he removes my comment : http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Allegations_of_state_terrorism_by_United_States_of_America&diff=next&oldid=70483038 --Paraphelion 01:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• He removed the comment but signed the section, I think you are missing that point, you complained he didnt sign it and added unsigned morton, so he signed it. I do not really see what the big issue is, its obviously not a case of sockpuppeting. --zero faults ^{|sockpuppets|} 02:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

  I had already signed it for him. Not surprising that you have no problem with your friend deleting other people's comments that you categorize as a "comaplaint".--Paraphelion 02:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

  Friend? I dont know any of these people in the real world. Sounds like you are not AGF. Or is there a cabal conspiring against you? --zero faults ^{|sockpuppets|} 02:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

  He meant the deletionists as a group. Their are (roughly) two groups on this page: the deletionists, and the inclusionists. Travb (myself) mongo and TDC have both deleted and added content. Please don't accuse other users of being paranoid. Travb (talk) 02:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

  Correct, I am referring to the two never once being at odds at each other in discussion. This is how you can discern unilaterialists such as Zer0faults, as in every talk page I have seen of his, he immediately takes a side and only argues with the other, regardless of whatever fallacies his own "side" uses.--Paraphelion 02:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Request to close

I was wrong in reading the edits, I got confused, but that is no excuse. I will wait for the results of the checkuser on Morton, then I will apologize to him. I already publicly apologized to Tbeatty on the talk page. Travb (talk) 02:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

You cant have a checkuser with no evidence to support one, there are rules against fishing. --zero faults ^{|sockpuppets|} 02:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I have other evidence. I know about the rules against fishing.Travb (talk) 02:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok look you have several editors who have inpedenatly checked the evidence you provided. We all found you to be in error Travb. Æon ^{Insane Ward} 02:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)