Wiki143:Requests for adminship/Vetting/Neuro-Sebastian

The following e-mail conversation has been posted here with both participant’s consent to provide a case study for negative feedback. It’s probably not a good example, but it’s better than nothing. Please comment on the talk page if you see any chances to improve the communication, or if you feel the communication shows an inherent flaw with the vetting process.

This is the original text without any additions or cuts, except for wikifying the links. Mails have been arranged chronologically ascending to make them easier to follow.

Sebastian to Neuro, Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Hello Neuro,

Thanks for being so brave to be our guinea pig!

Sadly, however, when I took a look at your recent contributions, I didn't like the amount of swearing I saw. I am looking for admins that can deescalate conflicts, so I would have to vote against you.

Sebastian

Neuro to Sebastian, Sunday, September 20, 2009 03:02

Hey there!

Thanks for the quick review -- I'm not usually one to swear out of want for effect, the one incident I do remember I mentioned at WT:RFA a few days ago, specifically the one with New Nothing (diff). I don't recall any other times in the recent past that I have used profanity in my edit summaries or in my edits, and it is entirely possible that my inability to think of other incidents where I have swore is simply down to my terrible memory, so I ask, were there any other incidents like that one, or, involving swearing to some point?

Thanks again for taking the time to email me. :)

- Chris

Sebastian to Neuro, Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:35 AM

"You know damn well what it is."*

Seriously, though. I really welcome your question, because it shows me that you want to improve. I therefore want give you my critical feedback. As far as I'm concerned, I don't see a need for you to publish any of this, despite of what others said at the vetting talk page, so allow me to be open with you.

Yes, the New Nothing case is what I noticed. Why you are asking for more incidents? Do you feel that the New Nothing incident was not significant?

I feel it was significant since it wasn't just a momentary slip of the keyboard. If you just had used a swear word once, that would have been excusable, although even that has hurt a candidate in a recent RfA. The issue is that you used repeated incivility in a series of edits on several talk pages. You even lashed out at another editor who tried, presumably in good faith, to tell you that you were overreacting.* You know, we all have to deal with strange people here, it comes with the territory. An administrator needs to be able to handle such common situations gracefully.

Sebastian

Neuro to Sebastian, Tuesday, September 22, 2009 00:12

I only see one edit listed with vulgar language (and that is neither of the ones you listed), but I guess that is irrelevant.

I did not engage with the user (hence "you know damn well what it is") because they were quite obviously trolling. If it is my lack of willingness to catalyse with a troll that is the problem that you see, then I don't see the same problem. It doesn't excuse my behaviour -- my question asking for more diffs was asked because I believe the incident to have been a one off. If such a thing isn't the case (which is what I believed you were implying with your first email), then that is concerning to me.

I am concerned with that one incident, but I believe trying to tackle incivility on my part over that one incident is likely to lead nowhere, because I don't recall any other times when it has happened, like I say, it was a one off. We all make mistakes, and sure, I've made some, and there was one of them. I don't believe that the incident was indicative of a larger problem, so I don't really see anything more to do. If I've missed something, please let me know. :)

I'm in a bit of a rush, so this email may seem a bit rushed. If parts don't make sense, don't hesitate to ask for clarification (I've not checked it).

- Chris

Sebastian to Neuro, Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 7:08 PM

I am not happy with this conversation. I had hoped that by having this conversation in private, we would enjoy a more relaxed atmosphere than if we had had this conversation on a wiki page. But I still have the impression that you are in a rush to defend yourself. Is there anything I could have done differently to contribute to a more relaxed atmosphere?

Sebastian

Neuro to Sebastian, Tuesday, September 22, 2009 15:08

I'm not intending to be defensive, perhaps that's just my nature. :)

- Chris

Sebastian to Neuro

Well, let's say, you seem to be quite reactive.

When I first wrote to you, I hadn't been aware that you already had gone through an RfA, so my feedback was truly unbiased. But when someone added the link to it to the vetting page, I checked it out, and I found that there were about a dozen people who had raised similar issues. (One of them called it "dramamongering"). BTW, I just complimented another prospect for an appropriate, mature handling of a similar situation.

Sebastian