Wiki143:Featured article candidates/Brian Booth/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 23:54, 3 October 2009 [1].

Brian Booth

Nominator(s): YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 05:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

{{Wikipedia:Featured article tools|1=Brian Booth}}

Comprehensive article on Australian cricketer, who captained Australia twice. He also went to the 1956 Olympics in hockey, and is a lay preacher, retired education department official. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 05:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

  • Haven't read the article yet, but you need a ref for "In the Australian edition of the 2002 Wisden Cricketers' Almanack, he wrote a chapter titled The Curse of Sledging." Aaroncrick (talk) 03:57, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Lead - "He captained Australia for two Tests during the 1965–66 Ashes series while regular captain Bob Simpson due to illness and injury." Possibly change to, " ... while regular captain Bob Simpson was absent due to illness and injury."
tweaked. very carelless YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Early Years - "Booth was recalled a month later for a match against Len Hutton's England cricket team at the Sydney Cricket Ground." English cricket team?
tweaked YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "New South Wales fell further to 5/26 before Booth came in with a borrowed cap and bat to join Peter Philpott." Did he borrow other gear?
I would think so, who would bring pads adn box but no bat, but the source doesn't mention anything else YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "He played in six matches and had few opportunities, managing only 157 runs at 31.40 and passing fifty on only one occasion." remove 'and'.
tweaked YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "It was his 15th first-class match, and helped his state to seal a fifth successive title with a ten-wicket win over their arch-rivals." Removed 'to'.
tweaked YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "Booth passed 50 on two occasions, making 75 and 85." Better off saying 'both'
No, these 50s occurred on separate occasions, not in both innings of the same match YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh, misread. Aaroncrick (talk) 07:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Test Career - "Booth had a strong first-class season, scoring 718 runs at 65.27 with two centuries to place third on the run scoring lists." Aggregetes instead of 'run scoring lists'?
done YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "In a match against Tasmania, Booth struck a breezy 100 from 104 balls in 90 minutes of batting, including a six that flew out of the ground." Was the match at the NTCA Ground? As the road is only 70m away.
No Hobart YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Hitting the ball out the ground at he Domian is still no amazing feet. He would have only cleared, a small stand or a grass bank. Small boundaries as well. Not as if he was at the MCG/SCG. Aaroncrick (talk) 06:56, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to cut it out. I'm not sure if Robinson had anything in mind in highlighting that one YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 07:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Unless he hit it into the gale blowing off Mount Wellington brrr... Aaroncrick (talk) 07:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "Another highlight was an 87 against the touring West Indies, helping New South Wales to complete an innings win." Is the first 'an' needed? Also is 'to' needed?
It's fine I think YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • " ... he and Victorian opening batsmen Bill Lawry were the new faces and they were regarded as the last two players chosen." Is 'they' needed?
Maybe, maybe not, but I reformulated the whole sentence anyway YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • " ... featuring in a partnership with centurion Bill Lawry." How many runs were put on?
Added YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "English captain Ted Dexter attempted to shut down Booth's scoring by employing leg theory." Change to 'the leg theory'
I don't think this is correct. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Temporary captain - " ... he was unaware if the rolling of the pitch after the toss was legal ... " Is this necessary?
I think so, it shows his mindset YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Aaroncrick (talk) 05:19, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

  • Comment While I was skimming through this article I got the impression that there is very little in it other than Brian Booth's cricket career. It goes into many details about various games that he played in but has few details on his life apart from that. (I was unable to find either of his parents names, whether he had any siblings, or either of his children's names.) I also believe that the readability of the article could be vastly improved by using subheaders. 222.216.176.249 (talk) 05:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Well this is quite natural because he was a world-class cricketer, and while he was selected in Australia's hockey team, he never got to play. The other thing is that in the old days there was no regular first-class hockey season in Australia with interstate teams, unlike Australia, so basically nothing is written about them; there are basically no hockey history books sold in Australia, whereas with cricket there is a heap every year. As for his teaching, he would not have been notable for preaching, pedagogy or politics of itself. However I have managed to scrape out some more statistics about the 1974 election and a bit more about Booth to add. It is not necessary to add his family's names as they are private individuals. I think the RL part is quite ample, given that the "style" section is about his mixing of religion and sport. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
More subheaders added YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:53, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Quickie comment: From the lead: "...had an inclination to use his feet to attack spin bowling." If I didn't know cricket I might think this meant he kicked the ball all over the place, as in soccer. It might be an idea to transfer this information to the main body of the article, where a short explanation could be added. Brianboulton (talk) 11:36, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Twaking YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Comments

  • Booth started the 1963–64 season strongly. He scored centuries in his first two innings, recording 121 and 169 not out against Queensland and Western Australia respectively.[5] His rapid innings against Western Australia at the SCG took only 94 minutes during the second session of the day. One six came from a Des Hoare beamer, which Booth hooked onto the roof of the stand on the hill.
The 169* came in 165 minutes (see the duration of the innings in CA). Hoare did not play in the match.
Fixed, and removed the beamer part, maybe Robbo got his wires crossed YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Booth did not pass 40 in the last three Tests and ended with 234 runs at 29.25 as Australia lost 2–1,[16] their first series loss since the 1956 Ashes series and their first series loss against a team other than England.
Pakistan, 1956-7
Fixed and clarified. I notice almost everyone when discussing the loss to the WI as the first series loss (not counting one offs) YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Some players felt that Booth would have been more popular among the playing group, while other cricket observers thought that he would not have been hard-nosed enough in pursuing his team's competitive interest.
Not clear what you are trying to say here Tintin 15:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Tweaked YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Support - See no problems except the ones raised by Tintin. They should be fixed soon. Aaroncrick (talk) 23:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

  • Comment2 The identity of the Coleman book should be mentioned in the notes or references. Tintin 07:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Yup, thanks for reminding YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 00:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Comments -
  • Newspapers titles in the references should be in italics. If you're using Template:Tl, use the work field for the title of the paper, and the publisher field for the name of the actual company that publishes the paper.
  • Current ref 56 says the publisher is "Psephos" but who is that? What makes this a reliable source?
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Psephos is run by User:Adam Carr, now retired but a legend of Wikipedia in the 2006 and before era. Apparently it is the biggest archive of electoral results in the world. He was a political official of Michael Danby and his archive was usually sourced everywhere all over Wikipedia, so most people accept, although for these purposes it might not be the best even though he just copied them from teh official govt log somewhere, which I'll try to track down YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
AC has a PhD in history and the site is also endorsed by any academic on its own wiki article Psephos YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:26, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
I'll leave this out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
  • (ec) Comments –
  • If I remember correctly, a person's place of birth is not supposed to be in parentheses following the name. In this article, it creates repetition with the start of the second paragraph.
  • "Drafted in as an emergency after the start of the match". Feels like a word is missing. Do y ou mean "emergency substitute" or something like that?
Subs are not allowed in cricket once the toss has been done. The source doesn't say explicitly, but Morris and Watson would have become unavailable on the morning of the match before the toss, but after Booth had gone to work and they would have had to phone him up to come to cricket. Except that would have taken some time because the toss is normally half an hour before the start. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 02:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Is emergency used commonly like this in cricket? If so, don't worry about it. That just confused me the first time I saw it. Giants2008 (17–14) 00:16, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
  • The Ashes: Two Ashes links in the section. Consider replacing one with a more specific link to that year's competition, if avaliable.
  • "In his rapid innings against Western Australia at the SCG, Booth scored 63 for his state against South Africa, but was unable to prevent defeat. ." Excess punctuation at the end.
  • Vice-captaincy: "and sometimes irritated made derogatory comments towards teammates." Don't like the location of "irritated" Perhaps "and sometimes made derogatory comments towards teammates when irritated."?
  • Temporary captain: An Old Trafford link here goes to the soccer stadium. You could just remove it, as I remember seeing a couple of links to the cricket stadium earlier.
  • Style: "He was known for not hitting the ball hard but for his easy and relaxed style." I'm not sure "but for" works grammatically. Maybe "but having an..."?
  • "Booth stood 181 cm and weighted 66 kg who refrained from...". I know "who" doesn't work grammatically in this one.
  • Outside cricket: He has served as the club president among other positions on the executive". Again feels like a word is missing at the end.
  • Commas before and after "or verbal intimidation tactics". Giants2008 (17–14) 01:36, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Fixed the rest YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 02:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Provisional support pending resolution of the one sourcing concern. Bear in mind that I don't know if all the cricket terms are correct, even after reading numerous FACs in the subject area. Most everything appears in order, besides the one thing mentioned multiple times already. Giants2008 (17–14) 23:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Comments

  • "Booth was born in Perthville, located 162 km (101 mi) outside the New South Wales regional town of Bathurst" Google Maps says they're 9.2km apart, needs checking.
  • In the lead Booth was born in Bathurst, in the first line of the body Perthville.
Fixed YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "He made 59 against the Marylebone Cricket Club in a match that was effectively a dress rehearsal for the Tests" only four of the MCC's XI played in that years Ashes so that seems an exaggeration.
Fixed YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "featuring in a partnership of 46—the highest in Australia's innings—with centurion Bill Lawry. Australia managed only 190 on the bowler-friendly pitch." Lawry was a centurion in the second innings, this description sounds like the century came in the first innings.
Fixed YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "as captain Richie Benaud needed quick runs; observers felt the need to attack cost Booth his maiden Test century" I know it's 'observers' opinion but it doesn't seem to tally with me. If you're leading 2-1 in an Ashes series do you need quick runs, also Australia scored 98 runs following Booth's dismissal without a declaration.
After Booth was out they scored 98 in 110 minutes. Reasonably fast I think, considering the calibre of bowling England had at the time. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
  • "As of 1997, he was one of only ten batsmen to have exceeded 10,000 runs in Sydney grade competition" Page 17 of this PDF (http://www.cricketnsw.com.au/nswgc/AA/2008/2008_GradeRecords.pdf) has 18 above 10,000 with Booth in ninth as of 2008.
  • Note 7 is 'Perry (2005)' but the book in the refs is 2000, also other book notes don't have years.
Fixed the two above YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Is there a reason for the commented out images.
An image reviewer Jappalang has come to the conclusion that PD-Australia doesn't work on US soil unless they are pre-1946, so I comment those out when it comes to FAC YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

--Jpeeling (talk) 21:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I have been remiss but I have a copy of Booth's autobiography Booth to Bat so if YellowMonkey (or whoever) is after added info (such as Booth's parents' names), I can supply. --Roisterer (talk) 03:17, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, info added YellowMonkey (bananabucket!) 04:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
done YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! All images check out. Awadewit (talk) 16:59, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Conditional support (Note: Prose, source, and image review.) - I know next to nothing about cricket, so my ability to understand this article this somewhat limited. However, I don't think this is the place to explain the game of cricket. :) I could still grasp the gist of the article, especially the later sections, despite my shocking ignorance. I have a few questions:
  • I am not an expert in cricket sources, so I cannot say if these are high-quality cricket sources, but I can say that they meet our WP:RS policy, with the exception of the one I mention below.
  • I agree with Template:Ul above that the Psephos site is a problem. It needs to be replaced - I don't see a reasoning provided that would make this a RS.
  • In response to the question about the commented out images, YM wrote "An image reviewer Jappalang has come to the conclusion that PD-Australia doesn't work on US soil unless they are pre-1946, so I comment those out when it comes to FAC" - Does this mean that he adds the images back after FAC? I'm a bit concerned here.
Not at all. No. These pictures were added before he told me that the template doesn't work, so I just comment them out at the FAC. None have come back, by me or by anyone else YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 04:01, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Like the IP above, I was surprised about the lack of information on other aspects of Booth's life, but I take it from YM's response that there is little info available. I accept that.
Well he was famous for being a world-level sportsman and not a world-level pedagogue or preacher. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 04:01, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I will be happy to support this article once the source issue is cleared up. Awadewit (talk) 19:19, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I'll email the owner of Psephos to ask what page the Vic election results came from YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 04:01, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks - I now have a herniated disk and cannot promise to keep responding here in a timely fashion. I will leave it up Ealdgyth and other reviewers to decide the source issue at this point. Awadewit (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
No reply, so removed that part. Will try and find it in hard print later YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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