Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Walter Donald Kring, PHD

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was copyvios. Johnleemk | Talk 14:42, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Walter Donald Kring, PHD, Herman Melville's Religious Journey

This person is listed as the author of several books, but of the two where the publisher isn't listed as unknown, one is a church, and one is "Pentland Press". If that's Pentland Press, Inc. of North Carolina (there was apparently a UK publisher named Pentland Press that went into liquidation) the only information I can find about the publisher is its imprint Ivy House, which describes its "mission" as "to offer an investment-based program, whereby an author has every chance of financial recuperation. You would fully invest in the first edition of the publication."[1] I'm sure this was written by someone who thought Dr. Kring was a wonderful person, and you know what? I'm sure they were right, I'm sure he was a great guy. But being a great guy, and being notable enough to merit an entry in an encyclopedic, are different things. If the greatest claim to the subject's encyclopedic notability is having some books privately printed, which it currently appears to be, that's not really enough. -- Antaeus Feldspar 03:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I have added the author's book, Herman Melville's Religious Journey. It is indeed published by the known vanity publisher Pentland Press, NC, there is no indication that its theses were ever recognized anywhere, and for what it's worth, its Amazon sales rank is 1,504,475. Pilatus 14:00, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• The book gave never before seen insight into the the Religion of Herman Melville, and also has documented proof that Herman Melville was beating his wife. There are records and letter from Herman Melville's wife to Henry Whitney Bellows. Zothip 10:00, 4 February 2006

• Delete per own nom. -- Antaeus Feldspar 03:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC) Strong Delete; the only source of information we have for most of this is the article's author, who has demonstrated that at the very least, he has severe difficulty accurately interpreting what he reads and reporting it again factually. -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Vote specified to include Herman Melville's Religious Journey as well. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:28, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Agree with nom, this individual does not merit a page. I know plenty of people who have their own books "published," but hardly would I want to see them on Wikipedia. --Kinu 03:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Extending my vote to all related articles included herein by the nominator. --Kinu 20:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep --HasNoClue 05:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• His claim to fame is also in his pottery which was shown at the World's fair, and for the 'Kring Red' Glaze he invented as well as his work on Hermen Melville. He was a Minister for most his life and was in the Navy during 2 major battles as a Chaplain. I will edit the wiki when I can get more information. I also have alot of his books he published here, that I will need to dig out to get the ISBN and publisher, the information on the wiki now is just what I could find on web. Thank you for the book information, I will update his complete works ASAP and I agree that his published works should be at the bottom of the page. This is my first page I have done, so some help would be appreciated. He was also involved with the 'Timothy Leary Acid Tests'. I will need to get information about this, but he also had some influence in the NYC area regarding 'Malcom X' and the 'Black Panther' movement of the 60's. I also have the audio version of his funeral service on MP3. Zothip

• Comment. The above post is by Zothip, the author of the page in question. Please sign your comments (four tildes). Also, there is nothing rude about the nominator's comments, IMHO. He simply pointed out that, while the subject may be a decent human being who had an impact on the lives of some, the information is not worthy of encyclopedic entry here at Wikipedia. (As per my vote above, I agree. I must also point out that the additional information you provided above does not make it more so, either.) --Kinu 07:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Temporary Keep in the spirit of WP:BITE. I doubt this is ever going to be an acceptable article, but it's possible, and someone can always renominate it in a month. If the guy really worked with Malcom X and the Panthers he may be notable. --djrobgordon 08:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• If this article is removed, then you may want to remove Herman Melville's page as well. - Zothip
  • Why? Herman Melville is encyclopedically notable; there is little question about that. But notability is not transitive; one does not automatically become notable just by writing about Melville. Also, in regards to your now-removed statement that you would like to tell me "where to go shove it!" I will say two things: first of all, how in your mind would it be possible for anyone to raise any question about whether this person is encyclopedically notable, without you assuming that the question is so "rude" that it fully justifies you being so very rude in return? secondly, please read Wikipedia:No personal attacks; if you intend to stay and contribute to Wikipedia, you will have to do so in a manner befitting a mature adult. No, merely saying "I would like to attack you with rude anatomical insults" is not a way around this rule. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:58, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• • Herman Melville had Religion and was a Unitarian: Herman_Melville#Religion Furthermore, for you to say that "was written by someone who thought Dr. Kring was a wonderful person, and you know what?" is attacking him and me. So maybe you should read the policy. Zothip 2:56, 4 February 2006

• • • Boy howdy, if that doesn't take the cake. Here's the full passage. "I'm sure this was written by someone who thought Dr. Kring was a wonderful person, and you know what? I'm sure they were right, I'm sure he was a great guy." So, yes! Black is white, up is down, freedom is slavery, and calling someone a wonderful person is attacking them! That makes perfect sense and perfectly justifies you telling me to stick it up my rectum. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:28, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • • YOU accused my grandfather of not writing the book nor doing the research. I do beleive that is called slander or making false claims of Plagiarism! If it was up to me, your rectum would be in court. Please also look at the notes I put in for Henry Whitney Bellows Zothip 21:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • • • WHAT?! What on God's green Earth are you talking about? The only false claims here are the ones you've just made, pretending that I ever said anything about your grandfather not writing the book or not doing the research, and those are false claims I'll thank you not to make! That sort of lying will not be stood for! -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:44, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • • • • Your quote, "I'm sure this was written by someone who thought Dr. Kring was a wonderful person, and you know what? I'm sure they were right, I'm sure he was a great guy." <<-- that is you saying he did not write the book. That is slander. Maybe you should read the entry about slander.

• • • • • • • You know something? I didn't have any doubts before that your grandfather did the research and wrote the book. Now I have serious doubts about it, now that you've shown you're utterly delusional. -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • • • • • • You may want try some Reflective practice. You are digging a deaper hole, and your signature is complete irony at best. You have now libeled me as well... Zothip 23:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Here are the laws involving Computer Libel and Slander. You libeled me and slandered my Grandfather. Both of which are punishable by federal law. The Libel is only punishable by jail time, the slander is monetary because you accused him of Plagiarism. http://www.efl-law.com/int_lib.html Zothip 00:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I worked for DISA as a Computer Security Investigator. I am contacting my lawyer. This is not only libel, but it is defamation as well. Zothip 01:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC

• I would like it known that I am not pressing charges in order to try to get this article kept, I could care less. But what was said in this OPEN FORUM by this one person is illegal, my lawyer will be contacting wikipedia on Monday. Zothip 16:31, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
• Please see WP:NLT. Stifle 02:03, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. There is no indication that the author's work has found any wider recognition either in academia or outside. Pilatus 14:00, 4 February 2006 (UTC) Zothip 00:59, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• I added the ISBM numbers and publishers for his other 'works'. I am waiting on some FAX'ed information from the Church of All Souls about his Black Panther Party involvment. Zothip 12:27, 4 February 2006

• In order to keep the wiki 'Polically Correct', I used the term 'Black Empowerment', but the information is up. Zothip 12:49, 4 February 2006

• Weak keep, but Merge Herman Melville's Religious Journey into Walter Donald Kring. Because of the amount of books published and it includes Beacon Press which is a small publishing house, it probably meets the 5,000 books threshold. The article itself is complete and professional, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. However two articles would be a bit much and the book can be discussed on the author's page. Dr Debug (Talk) 23:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I am awaiting a call as to his involvement with Timothy Leary. I know he was in the Timothy Leary Acid Tests, But I do not know when nor to what extent. I remember his words to me were, "It did nothing to me". So he probably got the placebo... Zothip 00:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Non notable person.Obina 00:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable bio and novel. --Madchester 00:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• I added the 'Kring Copper Red Cone' glazing and firing technique to the Pottery Section. To include the recipe. Zothip 02:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete both as non-notable bio/novel. Stifle 02:03, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as non notable bio. Jtkiefer^{T | C | @} ---- 03:18, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• Copyright Violation: I checked Amazon, and the text on the Herman Melville's Religious Journey page is 100% lifted, save for the typos, from the front flap. --Kinu 07:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Copyright Violation: So is the other one. Surprise. --Kinu 18:25, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
• Well, that about wraps it up for good. Delete per nom, nevertheless. Also, all these legal-threat shenanigans gave me a fair few laughs. --Agamemnon2 12:03, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Legal threats, copyright violation. Preaky 17:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Zothip (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) was indefinitely blocked by Zoe for making legal threats, per WP:NLT. Stifle 16:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete for multiple good reasons given above. Jonathunder 23:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.