Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Ralph Bucky Phillips

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep due to withdrawn nomination. Nufy8 23:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Ralph Bucky Phillips

I have speedy deleted this twice now. This person is a nn criminal. Take it to Wikinews. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep. This manhunt is making news beyond just Upstate New York. Even if Phillips is considered to be an obscure thug, this story has made national news. It's been the top story in western and central New York for months and it's been well-reported in neighboring regions (one of which I am writing from). To approach it from another angle, there are hundreds -- if not thousands -- of Wikipedia articles dealing with items of only regional interest (which, by the way, contributes to Wikipedia's greatness, in my opinion). If this article is deleted for lack of notoriety, there are hundreds of others that must be deleted for the same reason.
  • Weak Keep. This man is the most wanted man in New York State right now, having killed one state trooper and critically wounded two others since escaping prison 5 months ago. TJ Spyke 01:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak keep certainly passes the verifiability test, though notability is a little fuzzier. This may be a case where we should keep for now, then re-visit the issue in a few years to see how it holds up. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 02:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. I would say this is definitely notable enough to keep for now. This was a top story on www.cnn.com a few hours ago. 5 Months on the lam after breaking out of prison is a lot. The article needs some serious wikifying and clean-up, but I suspect this story is (or will be) nearly on the footing of an Eric Robert Rudolph or the like. I agree with Starblind that we should keep it and see how much more coverage it gets. Irongargoyle 02:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
    • The title should also be changed. His name is Ralph Phillips, Bucky is just his nickname. So if the article stays it should probably be re-names to Ralph "Bucky" Phillips since that is how his name is being displayed. TJ Spyke 02:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Transwiki. My suggestion : the text currently in the article should be moved to Wikinews, while a (preferably short) article on Bucky should be left here. The article should contain a sentence each of 1) who Bucky is, 2) what crime he has done that made him NY State's most wanted man, and 3) his current status as a wanted criminal. And it should cite references and further reading from Google news searches etc. Add a current event template and a link to the Wikinews entry, and that should round it up nicely. Nevertheless the text currently in the article is most definitely unencyclopedic, since it is original research IMHO. But it is a nice feature article (without a d); which belongs in Wikinews. --Lemi4 02:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Seeing as with all the cleanup already done, I'm switching my vote to Keep. The way I see it, it seems that we pretty much have a consensus that Bucky Boy's significantly encyclopedic enough. Can an Admin confirm this? What else is needed to close this case? --Lemi4 11:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete or Transwiki. Doesn't really seem to belong here, as really non-notable. Akradecki 02:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep* He was the top story on all the news channels today. He has been on the national news. He has shot 3 police officers and been on the lam for months. $250,000 reward is on his head. New York's most wanted criminal. Even after he is caught he will still be notable. KEEP! At least for now. Alot of people are interested in him. I live in PA, and at the state line they have a roadblock set up looking for him. This affects alot of people. --Fredtorrey 02:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. This has the makings of an infamous case that will be of interest now and into the future.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Urban011 (talk • contribs) .
  • Keep. This is indeed an intriguing case, I agree with the opinions expressed by the other Keep's above.Smeelgova 04:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep To me, this is a very relevant current event. I don't really understand why it would be deleted. This site is a place I went to for more information about the man. I'm from the area he's alleged to be hiding out in. I want the kind of info this site may be able to provide. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.61.74.96 (talk • contribs) .
  • Comment— Several of the keeps are written by editors with intersting editing patterns. Williamborg (Bill) 05:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
And of course most of these look legitimate. But one hates to see a debate carried by anything but merit. Williamborg (Bill) 05:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep as he is notable and in the news. This article needs serious wikification though. Like, yesterday. NeoFreak 05:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This story has become national. --Bamaman 05:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep Its an outrage that this article is considered for deletion. A few days ago, this article did not exist. I came tonight to make one as I heard of the news of one of the NYS Troopers deaths. The article does really need clean up, but its our duty to keep it up. Zrulli 06:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep This article really should be kept. This story has just recently made national news and should be kept on the basis of him shooting a state trooper. Also, federal agencies have now become involved. It should be kept, but should be edited and improved. Mfullererie 07:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, unencyclopedic. I'm sorry for the family of the trooper he shot, but Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia, not an American current-events site, and this story seems to be of interest only to a limited section of Americans. Moreover, Wikipedia is not a current-events site at all: that's why Wikinews exists.
    The inability of most of the posters above to admit that this is not what an encyclopedia is for will inevitably lead to this being kept for now, but I propose re-listing it in a couple of months, not a couple of years -- because I'm willing to bet that's how long it'll take for him to be forgotten, even by the limited section of Wikipedia's users who have ever registered his existence. — Haeleth Talk 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Notable and newsworthy. Yes, Wikipedia is an international site, but that doesn't mean we ignore things of "regional" interest otherwise half the TV show articles, and virtually all articles on politicians, philanthropists, etc. would have to go too. 23skidoo 14:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I really have to agree with the importance of keeping articles of regional interest; one of the greatest thingsd of wikipedia is learning about things that aren't popular or in the news anywhere near you, but still significant. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 18:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep. I'm a reporter who has been following the Phillips manhunt for the last 5 months, and am surprised it's taken so long for Wikipedia to have an article on the subject. When this ends, Phillips will die among the ranks of some of the most successful fugitives in American history. The national news has already begun covering this, though I'm surprised it took them so long as well, so it's by no means just of a "regional" interest. I have not come across a single fugitive's story that has been the same as Phillips'. — Pfanelli Talk 11:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, it's started appearing in international media, even if it is a sort of silly season diversion, and his run -- and the popular reaction -- has been profiled in the NYT. Back as of here I'd agree it was very iffy, but from here it became a national story and qualified as "Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events". I certainly don't see how it qualified in the first place as a speedy delete as "Non-notable subjects with their importance asserted" are not supposed to be speedied. In any case, move to Bucky Phillips per the most-common-name rule. --Dhartung | Talk 15:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Oh, and incidentally -- those earlier articles were better. --Dhartung | Talk 15:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

STRONG KEEP - This fugitive is number 1 on the New York most wanted list with current reward of $250,000 and has been on the run for months on a mission. There is enough interest in his cause to justify this entry.

  • Keep per Irongargoyle. I did a quick removal of POV and unencyclopedic content, but this article needs to be completely rewritten; the text appears to be a copyvio [1]. Nufy8 18:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Nufy8, good catch -- I was already doing that. --Dhartung | Talk 18:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • COPYVIO, large chunks of this article are copied from the America's Most Wanted page on the case. I believe we should have an article on this guy, but the current one needs to be deleted as a copyright violation. --Edit conflict, apparently Nufy jumped on the copyvio issue too. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 18:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Apparently Nufy has excised the violating material, so I'm changing it to Keep. This guy is a most-wanted fugitive in a state with a population larger than many countries. We don't have notability guidelines for criminals, but it's obvious he's had enough media coverage to meet WP:BIO. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 18:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • KeepThere are numerous sources, the events surrounding Phillips are notable, he is quickly developing into a cultural symbol in nearby areas (an entirely seperate reason for an article). Also, this is an article about a person, so it would not fit in at Wikinews. In responce the Haeleth's comments, this version of Wikipedia is in english, intended for all english-speakers, of which America makes up a significant portion. I would non delete an article of equal importance elsewhere, but it would obviously recieve less attention if it occured in a non-english-speaking country. Urukagina
  • Keep media has publicized him. In a month or two run if through AfD and see if it survives. Nickieee 19:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This is the biggest manhunt in New York State since something like 1973. This has been huge news in Upstate New York for months now, and longer he goes without being caught, the bigger it is getting. As Nickieee said, lets wait another month or so and then see whether or not this will remain wiki-worthy. At this very moment, however, it is. Skudrafan1 21:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep, though with a bit of Clean-Up. He's a nationally-publicized (via "America's Most Wanted") wanted fugitive accused of shooting three law enforcement officials (one fatally) who has (unfortunately) been perceived as some kind of rouge (anti-?) hero. Personally, I think the article here is warranted and doesn't put him in some unjustly deserved positive light, maybe it will even keep people looking for him. Plus I'd like to say (& No Offense Intended) that I think the "Wikipedia is international, not just American" & "not a current-events site" are silly, to put it mildly. RayS NY 22:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This guy is making nation headlines on CNN and MSNBC, he shot 3 state troopers and killed one.this should be kept. Waluigi300 21:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep, he is of partial Native American ancestry & has been traveling between 3 different Native Amarican territories in Western New York. This is a much different situation than if he were, say, a non-Native American just finding refuge in 3 different counties in the state. While these territories are not out-of-bounds to the rest of the public there is a pronounced difference in culture inside the territory. The most that any non-Native American usually sees is the gas station/cigarette store right inside the territory. If you are not a Native American & you go driving farther into the territory, you are going to be noticed. If this event is cast in the light of the historical events over the past 50 years (that have profoundly affected the Native American territories in this region), one can gain understanding of the reasons why he would be sheltered & befriended for most of his time on the run. Cabreet 01:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep, He's a hero and a legend in the Southern Tier of New York. He's been on the national news, he is all anybody can talk about.
  • Keep notable enough and newsworthy - this is obviously the kind of information people expect to find in an encyclopedia. ReidarM 07:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep per above, of course. --badlydrawnjeff talk 11:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong KeepIt may be messy right now, but Phillips' alleged actions are without precident in the history of the New York State Troopers.Grzond 13:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak keep per Grzond. That said, "this is the top story on CNN right now" isn't really a reason to keep an article. A historical first probably merits inclusion; a currently big news story probably doesn't, at least, not unless it's a top story for a couple of days.–♥ «Charles A. L.» 18:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Please ask for a second opinion the next time you find yourself repeatedly speedy deleting articles which make verifiable claims to notability. Thanks! RFerreira 18:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • What claims of notability does the article make? I see zero. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
      • That makes one of us then. Given the overwhelming consensus here, would you please consider withdrawing this nomination per WP:SNOW? RFerreira 20:44, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep FBI most wanted list entry for sure... those few hundreds of newspapers and tv stations reporting on him prove his notability.  ALKIVAR™File:Radioactive.svg 23:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong KeepThis whole event documents huge problems in the criminal justice system, not to mention the fact that he was on the FBI's most wanted list, the tv show "America's Most Wanted", etc. Even without that...it's not over yet. Walmartshopper67 02:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
  • keep please per 23skidoo the person is notable and newsworthy too Yuckfoo 03:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, criminal that attracted a lot of media attention. bbx 05:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy Keep, mostly for notability reasons stated above, and for the fact that it meets WP:V for the fact that it is making news around the area, especially in New York state. I mean hey, if Farris Hassan survived its AfD I can't see why this one would not survive. --Nicholas Weiner 13:07, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, Bucky has been on CNN,FOXnews, AMV online,and everyday on Northeastern News channels. He has killed a cop and has injured two.--Nimrod1234 20:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong keep. He's received national media coverage, which follows WP:BIO. It states: Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events. --Nishkid64 22:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep very notable, but I'm going to move it to Ralph Phillips. Wikibout-Talk to me! 23:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
  • STRONG STRONG Keep - Each representive of FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives mostly has an article. Shane (talk/contrib) 00:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep- Bucky has been a hot topic in local and national news. But keep especially for those who might see his name in national news, and come to Wikipedia seeking more information about him and what he has done. ONA4493 02:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep being one of the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives makes him worth having a Wikipedia entry --Cspurrier 02:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong keep Current FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives should have an atricle. – Zntrip 03:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong keep No reason not to get a head start on detailing what will probably be a modern day jesse james type figure of sorts. Times just had a headline article, thats a good sign this one is going national. Anyway, wayyy more mundane things get kept all the time. Thechosenone021 03:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Not super-villain level, but notable enough Mad Jack 03:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep current event, well-known. Desertsky85451 03:47, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep He's not an NN criminal now. I say all Ten Most Wanted Fugitives should have an article. That is an exceptional level of infamy. --Kitch 05:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy Keep Please, may we dispense with any motion to delete this article? More than a Speedy Keep, I wish a Speedy catch for this criminal, I wish that no more State Troopers die. Just consider the terrain involved. I think that most of the world does not realize just how desolate & remote are some sections of New York State. It's not unreasonable that he could remain on the run for years. We have Vietnam Veterans that live in our state forest land. Even near my hometown are there people that live in the woods. Cabreet 09:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. He is on a most wanted list. Kingturtle 13:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: WELCOME TO THE FBI TEN MOST WANTED LIST! --Nicholas Weiner 16:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

His addition to the Ten Most Wanted List makes him notable, I withdraw the nomination. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:36, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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