Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Proposals for a Jewish state

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Already Redirected to Zionism - Yomangani^talk 17:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Proposals for a Jewish state

This article seems to be not referenced by anything and better dealt with other articles. It's very inaccurate, confusing and irrelevant. It erroneously suggests some sort of universal acceptance of these so called proposals undefined and unexplained. Should be deleted by WP:CRUFT. Amoruso 12:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per my nom. Amoruso 13:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with Jewish State or State of Israel -Missvain 16:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, if there's any information to merge with I agree. Amoruso 20:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Disagree. both of the articles mentioned by discuss post-1948 history. The best place to merge is Zionism

• Delete. Unsourced and fragmentary. If sourced, merge into Zionism or someplace else. Sandstein 21:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as currently written. If sources can be scared up, a merge per Missvain or Sandstein is in order for what's sourced. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:48, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and Redirect to Zionism. I have been bold and done the merge into Zionism. All that remains is to do the redirect. --Richard 05:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The merging is only with something sourced. Right now it's not sourced and not true, no need for the merge. It can be deleted, this material exists already when it's true like argentina and uganda and russia. In fact all this information exists already, also Ararat. Some of it just isn't true and serves no further encyclopedic material. Amoruso 12:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not the case that material can only be mentioned once in an encyclopedia. Detailed treatment should take place in only one place and Zionism is as good a place as any unless a Proto-Zionism article is created.

In what articles does the true information exist already?

If any of the material isn't true, you or any other editor who knows it not to be true can remove it. The only reason that I merged the material into Zionism instead of voting to keep this article is that there isn't enough content in this article to warrant a separate article. If it's all false, it obviously should all be deleted. If only part of it is true, then the true part should be in Zionism and the false part should be deleted.

I notice that you have removed the material from the Zionism article. I think this is a mistake but rather than edit war over it, I will open a discussion on the Talk Page to see what other people think.

--Richard 14:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

A further explanation of my position. It seems to me that some mention of these proposals (the ones that are true) belongs in the Zionism article.

There is no mention of David Nassy's efforts to colonize Curacao and Cayenne in the articles for those locations. However, there is an article on David Cohen Nassy which does mention those efforts.

I noted that there is no mention of a proposal for a Jewish state in the Pavel Pestel article. Perhaps this information is false?

Mention of these pre-Zionist proposals for a Jewish state are clearly relevant to understanding the Historical Background of the Zionist movement. That's why I moved this material there.

--Richard 15:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I have no problem to move the material to zionism article - there's a section there called alternate proposals so please move anything useful there. I just want to make sure it's accurate or sourced. From the David Cohen Nassy I don't see any proposals for a Jewish state. Jews moving somewhere is not the same as a Jewish state, but I may be mistaken about his intent. At any case, we agree to delete the new article and merge any useful information to Zionism, no problem. AFAIK btw, the only proposal from that list of places is Ararat which has an extensive article I believe (via Noah), I could be mistaken though. The information exists now in the talk page of zionism as prelude so there's no fear to delete this article then. Amoruso 01:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. ReverendG 05:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - per nom - and merge a few salvageable pieces into Jewish State. Zionism is all about Zion and Israel is about a specific state. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 06:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - per nom and Humus. --tickle me 12:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: Can we just redirect it now then ? seems a consensus. it wasn't sourced, could have been redirected to begin with without AFD, my mistake... Amoruso 04:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok I'm going to do this on WP:BOLD since it's me who nominated this article to begin with - if anyone objects, then please revert me and keep this debate open, and I'm sorry in advance. Amoruso 18:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete and merge sourced, salvageable facts into other appropriate articles per above (if it still matters). 6SJ7 23:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Keep I don't see any reason for this article to be ["strangled in its cradle"]. Someone turned it into a redirect to Zionism, however the quest for a Jewish state has a richer and longer history than Zionism. For example, the Soviet Union organised a Jewish Autonomous Oblast in siberia which was entirely separate from the Zionist movement. This article could develop into something quite interesting. Why stamp it out now? ... al Seabhcán bin Baloney (Hows my driving?) 00:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. The USSR's Jewish Autonomous Oblast was not a proposal for a Jewish state. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 04:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
  • ::: Well, before the Jewish Oblast was actually created there was years of discussion and proposals within the Soviet Union for different possibilities of Jewish state. There is a rich and interesting history there. ... al Seabhcán bin Baloney (Hows my driving?) 11:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

the article is a redirect now, so it's why I think discussion should close (was a mistake)... if one wants to make the redirect to something else in the future he can do so I guess, and it will be analysed then. Also if it were to be deleted it can't mean it can't be re-created in the future. As it was, the article was compltelely pointless. For example, if the article was talking about proposals not of Jewish origin but of Soviet/Nazi origin etc then the title could be a better one too, if btw it would add anything to existing articles. Amoruso 21:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.