Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Non-Muslims Interactants with Muslims During Muhammad's Era
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was keep. Johnleemk | Talk 09:19, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Non-Muslims Interactants with Muslims During Muhammad's Era
There were presumably many thousands of non-Muslims who interacted with Muslims during Muhammad's lifetime. Of course, we don't know the names of most of them. If they are notable, they should be mentioned in one of the Wikipedia history articles. If they aren't notable, they don't need to be listed. This article should be deleted. Zora 03:45, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Delete This is a misguided and mistitled attempt at something, but I am not sure what. (I am assuming the list is derived from figures mentioned in the Qu'ran?) Eusebeus 10:27, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Tentative Keep, with reservations. There is something in this list, as in Islamic history there were many notable incidents between Muslims and non-Muslims. It needs massive cleanup though. The title needs to be reworded and the articles on those people listed so far are extremely badly written stubs. Zunaid 12:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Delete This is simply not encyclopedic. Reyk 13:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Keep and cleanup for now. Unlike some of the Library of Babel-like lists that one sometimes encounters here, this one actually has got a proper focus (non-Muslims mentioned in the hadith). Pilatus 15:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Keep The list is relevant, there are lots of notable non-Muslim Interactions with Muslims during Muhammads era that is mentioned in the hadith literature. As far as "presumably many thousands", see List of schools. --Striver 15:44, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Comment -- but the article doesn't say that it's limited to non-Muslims mentioned in the hadith. The title, and the article, could refer to any interactions mentioned in any historical source. Nor is it clear how you're going to perform the gargantuan task of combing the many thousands of hadith in the six Sunni collections, and the various Shi'a collections, to pull out the names you want. As for limiting it to hadith -- what about sira? Ibn Ishaq, Tabari, Waqidi, and Ibn Sa'd all mention non-Muslims -- mostly Arab non-Muslims who were either inhabitants of Mecca before the Hegira, or those killed in the course of the ten years of warfare that occupied Muhammad's last ten years of life. Are you going to mention all those names? That's thousands. If the article is only going to mention the notable non-Muslims, then there's no need for the list, as anyone notable is going to be mentioned in the various articles on early Islamic history. Zora 09:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- I said nothing about excluding non-hadith literature. If you find anything outside it, then please add that as well. If the list is geting to big, then it can be either split into sub-articles or trimed by notability. Standard wikipedia procedure, in other words. Im personaly not going to sift through hadith literature with the specific aim of finding names, rather, when i make a article or stumble on a notable name, i link it to that list. The list of schools. Also, even if we only had a few notable names, it still would merit a list, lists are useful for finding information, much more than doing timeconsuming searches that are bound to be less complete than a list. I cant belive i need to justifie the reason to creat lists or explain how wikipedia handles large ones...--Striver 13:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- Comment -- but the article doesn't say that it's limited to non-Muslims mentioned in the hadith. The title, and the article, could refer to any interactions mentioned in any historical source. Nor is it clear how you're going to perform the gargantuan task of combing the many thousands of hadith in the six Sunni collections, and the various Shi'a collections, to pull out the names you want. As for limiting it to hadith -- what about sira? Ibn Ishaq, Tabari, Waqidi, and Ibn Sa'd all mention non-Muslims -- mostly Arab non-Muslims who were either inhabitants of Mecca before the Hegira, or those killed in the course of the ten years of warfare that occupied Muhammad's last ten years of life. Are you going to mention all those names? That's thousands. If the article is only going to mention the notable non-Muslims, then there's no need for the list, as anyone notable is going to be mentioned in the various articles on early Islamic history. Zora 09:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- Keep and rename to something. -- JJay 02:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- Keep but limit and rename list to those non-Muslims who interacted with Muhammad himself, rather than any one Muslim. Pepsidrinka 02:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
- Keep but rename and clarify inclusion criteria; current name doesn't even make sense. siafu 03:20, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.