Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Hind bint Awf

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Mailer Diablo 00:16, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Hind bint Awf

Being the father of someone (even if they are notable) is not inherently notable Ruby 02:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• Keep ffs, i wrote i was working on it! can i please have more than 20 minutes to do reaserch? --Striver 02:19, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Of course, take all the time that you need. And when you've finished, come back with an actual article. Until then, delete. --Calton | Talk 02:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy A1 and A7. Royal Blue ^T/_C 02:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Guys, I see how you are arguing. Your view that this people can in no way be notable only being the relative of somebody. In most cases, that is true. But in some cases, it is not. This is one of those cases. First, Muslims places so much time and effort on the the genealogy of this people, that only being related makes them notable, in a Muslim POV. There are entire books that list this people and gives entries on what is known about each. Second, there is also the problem of research. Much of the information on this guys are in Arabic, meaning its hard to google them out, since they havent been translated. And when they are translated, they are transliterated in different way, making it harder to track them down. And some times, they are not even named, only refered to as " the mother of x did this and that". This results in taking a lot of time to create articles. And third, we have the problem of where to put information, if not on her own article. For example, Hind bint Awf is connected to 5 people. Am I supposed to repeat everything I find on here in each of those five articles? Every single bit of information on this people are of very high significance, where they live, who long, when they married and so forth...

I beg you to take a look at Sahaba's ancestors and Non-Muslim interactants with Muslims during Muhammad's era. Take a look at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html and try searching some hadith. Look at this list Shia view of the Sahaba. You see? Please don't decide that this person is not notable, unless you have a good understanding of this topic. Would I bother to write all of this if she was really of no intrest? Its not like vanity or commercial for anything, and its not like it makes Wikipedia look bad for having it. Give the articles time to grow.... --Striver 02:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

If the daughters are notable, send us down an article about the daughters. We don't have articles about the parents of celebrities no matter how famous their children are. Ruby 03:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

What about Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy? Just sayin' Crypticfirefly 04:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• It seems to me that we already have articles about his daughters. Kappa 03:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for removing the personal insult. We do if they are the mother of five celebrities , mother in law of a super celebritie and grandmother of yet another celebritie , dont we? --Striver 03:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Kappa 02:56, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. The notability claim here seems to be that one of this lady's daughters married Muhammad the Prophet, three two other daughters married early followers of Muhammad, and she is the grandmother of a major early Islamic theologian. The sheer number of people significant to Islam among her progeny makes her notable. Besides, if we can let Jeanne Marie Cossanges hang around for a year, we can give this article a few days to develop. Crypticfirefly 04:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• Keep being one famous person's parent isn't notable; having so many of your children end up in such significant marriages is a different thing altogether. From what I've read so far, fascinating, but the article needs to be improved a lot. Georgewilliamherbert 05:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Agree with Georgewilliamherbert that improvement/expansion is needed. I'd like to see the dates when this lady lived (even if approximate), an explanation of what happened to husband #2, an indication of what religion she followed, and some discussion perhaps of what kind of work her various husbands did and what work she did. Also, did she have any other children? And if alternate spellings of her name is a problem, they should be listed. Crypticfirefly 06:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep and expand I think this easily meets WP:Notability. Give Striver time to expand it -- Samir ∙ ^T _C 06:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• Comment So, i found some more. Is the article safe now, can i focus on other article now?--Striver 06:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
  • You can work on whatever you'd like, but why not do some more work on this one before going on to the next one? You could add references to whatever your source of information was, for example. Crypticfirefly 03:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I'd normally agree with Ruby on parentage but despite that and my own POV, this article does appear to be about a notable person as the lineage here is notable. MLA 09:19, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep Very notable. Siva1979^{Talk to me} 11:59, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep --Terence Ong 16:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Needs significant work, but the person described seems notable enough based on her daughters subsequent marriages Avi 17:43, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, this article is an attack on the holy religious values of Islam and must be eradicated. No, I mean, keep, notable historical and religious figure. JIP | Talk 19:15, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• keep please agree with what Georgewilliamherbert Yuckfoo 19:26, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep sufficient notability of family. And Striver we do appreciate the articles you create - they help to counteract some of the inherent imbalances in wiki. Dlyons493 Talk 21:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Geneaology of the Hashemite dynasty, including the prophet Mohammed, is of great interest to students of Islam, a notable world religion. I agree that the current article falls somewhat short of WP:PERFECT. ikkyu2 (talk) 01:28, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Important early islamic figures. 129. 23:35, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.