Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Gang stalking

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete, despite massive anon astroturfing. mikka (t) 18:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Gang stalking, and now Gang Stalk Persecution Complex, Gang Stalk Persecution Stress, Brighting etc.

Note: If the consensus here is DELETE, Gang stalking, Gang Stalk Persecution Complex, Gang Stalk Persecution Stress, and Brighting will all be deleted.

The current content of this page is idiosyncratic, to say the least. Linked sites refer to "Electro Harassment Crimes", "directed energy weapons", and so forth. I suggest this page be deleted.

I think the following quotes are indicative of the author's POV:

Current participants brag of being above the law, and much evidence exists of complicity on the part of local fire and police departments which act as actors and anchor men of sorts when the latter are used to complete the job. The final phase is complete when the target makes the mistake of verbalising to the authorities some of the events that have transpired and are dismissed as being paranoid.
...
The above free web assessment tool helps the stalking victim assess the degree of mobstalking. Also more importantly it helps to recognize a case of MultiStalking and what actions to lookout for. There is a button gangstalkpersecutioncomplex This gives a list of feelings obtained from these actions to be used for medical consultation. Another button shows HowTheGangStalkVictim feels. This gives a great analogy on how the victim feels and is perceived by others. This is important to show family and friends to see what the victim is going thru.

Apparently, the author is upset about the replacement of [1] by a redirect. -- Karada 04:17, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Anyone seeking to redirect to Street Theater has not read the article, which should be obvious even to non-readers that gang stalking is so much broader and more mainstream a concept than street theater. The effort at a redirect is designed to gut the concept of gang stalking of its more substantive meaning.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.129.121.254 (talk • contribs)

Votes to delete

  • Delete as original research although there are sources available on the Internet - it is popular on Indymedia by the look see [2]. Capitalistroadster 04:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment only: there are remarkable similiarities in the prose style and page layout of many of the web pages found by that search, and the article itself. -- Karada 04:45, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Also note that references to this article have been liberally spammed into multiple other articles: [3] (Update: much of this was by linking it in Template:Abuse -- I've now removed this link, but it will take some time for all those pages to refresh) -- Karada 04:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, lengthy similar screeds have been pasted into several other articles, for example cyberstalking, see [4], bully see [5], and so on. -- Karada 05:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
There now seems to be a concerted effort in progress to add similar articles: see the recently-created Gang Stalk Persecution Complex, Brighting. Note the use of key phrases such as "Electro Harassment Crime." -- Karada 05:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete per Capitalistroadster. Pavel Vozenilek 05:00, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - Unacceptable original research. FCYTravis 05:18, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Looks like a hoax, someone taking a few actual terms from stalking and cyberstalking and mixing them with tinfoil-hattery and what I want, for whatever reason, to label as "quease". The Literate Engineer 05:24, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete as per Capitalistroadster. -- Perfecto 02:50, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: I observe that nearly all of the keep comments are the first edits of new anon IP editors, who just happen to have turned up at the same time, with remarkably similar POVs. Many of the "keep" comments below also appear to share a similar writing style and set of idiosyncratic jargon to the posted article. Also see Electronic Harassment (anti-personnel sense), an article with very similar content (electronic mind weapons, etc). created by one of the commenters below. -- The Anome 23:30, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete all of these; If this collection of beliefs becomes common enough then it can be added to one of the lists of conspiracy theories. At this point it looks like a one-man show. Tom Harrison (talk) 01:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete all - original research, supported by astroturfing. Tearlach 03:47, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete the articles in their present form of conspiracy theory. mikka (t) 18:44, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Gang stalking, Gang Stalk Persecution Complex and Brighting. POV original research. Any new articles would need separate nominations, unless they are candidates for speedy deletion as recreations of AfD deletions, as seems likely. Andrewa 21:06, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - without anesthesia. Renata3 21:37, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: I notice that one of these articles has now been moved, by a relatively new user who has contributed only on this subject. I doubt this will change the outcome, or even delay it. No change of vote. Andrewa 05:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: See also Psychotronics and this web page for what we are dealing with here. Andrewa 05:32, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete --NaconKantari 18:00, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. A personal campaign by an editor, apparently the webmaster of http://www.fireflysun.com/, who is using several usernames (including Script error: No such module "user".) to insert similar material to many pages (including Stalking and Privacy). See also: "News Group-based Cult, Defamation League Hijacks Pop Trash "Encyclopedia" Wikipedia (en.Wikipedia.org) to Malign Victims". -Willmcw 20:16, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Drivel. Palnu 23:39, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, original research attempting to exploit Wikipedia as a soapbox, or can you even classify paranoid delusions of conspiracy as 'research'? I don't think it's coincidence that alt.usenet.kooks shows up prominently as one of the purported practictioners of so-called "gang stalking", and that's really all this article seems to be, a lengthy account of someone's delusions of persecution not-very-successfully converted into supposedly non-personal prose. -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:53, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete as per Antaeus Feldspar.--nixie 04:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Votes to merge

  • Very, very, week keep/merge... or something. Keep if the language can be cleaned up to be more encyclopedic, as this article family seems to be describing a group acting to coerce or threaten an individual, rather than an individual being threatened by another individual. Merge if possible into articles such as Cyber_bullying, Psychological_warfare, Stalking, Cyberstalking, Harassment_by_computer, Group_psychological_abuse, Gaslight, (etc... we do seem to have *quite* a few of these kinds of articles). Merge to a single article or title if somebody can suggest a good one. Ronabop 03:50, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge/HUGE Rework/Delete Merge all of them into one topic. Also, most of the delete votes are unsigned and history reveals them to be by IPs in which this is their only contribution.

Votes to keep

  • Keep Gang Stalking is real and it destroys target individual's (TI's) life completely. Hundreds and thousand of people are being used to stalk a TI. TI can not escape from this perfect crime even if he/she moves to any part of the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.230.95.151 (talk • contribs)
Keep. It's true. Read Psychic Dictatorship in the U.S.A. by Alex Constantine and other books on the subject if you don't believe it is. Wake up America! (Note: the italicised text above was interpolated by another editor, and is not part of Karada's nomination)
  • Keep as type of cyberstalking. For an example of gang stalking, see LJ Drama/Something Awful, Cruel.com and many others. This is probably more common than individual cyber stalking and it is a misconception that cyber stalking should be treated in the same way as regular stalking, as cyber stalking is usually actually gang stalking, as this article indicates. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 07:09, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: At the time of writing, this appears to be one of only two keep votes by logged-on contributors. The other is a very weak keep. Andrewa 23:14, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep - Gang stalking is a genuine tactic of harassment participated in by

many individuals targeting one sole person. All across the world, the tactics used are similar. This crime is coming to the attention of the public through the internet and publications. This is the time to insure that this covert crime is retained in the Wikipedia for reference. Delete all reference to persectution complex. This IS NOT a medically recognized diagnosis or sympomatology. R. Ross. RN

  • Keep - this is an excellent description and resource of a widespread phenomenon which is being conducted not only in the US - particularly Texas, California, Massachussets - but also in the NATO countries. This is being used as a method of political control which has been used for centuries by the Catholic Church, the Nazis, Ku Klux Klan and now widely associated with the "War on Terror" which seems to also be targeting citizens of countries who are opposed to political changes leading to Police State policies. Gang stalking/electronic harrassment is primarily being organized and run by retired police, firefighters, military, coast guard, and paramilitary types and is funded partly by HUD as well as black budget money probably coming from drug sales. There have been many important articles in journals, books, and websites on this activity and the best way to fight it is to expose it. Gang stalking is also widespread at University campuses - particularly the University of California where I have observed it, nuclear weapons labs (managed by the Univ. of California), and has been used against soldiers who want to leave the military or are opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Interviews available on the internet with Kay Griggs describe how her husband, a US Marine Colonel developed this and other practices to use against American citizens, and she has the manual for it. This should be taken seriously and the article definitely belongs on Wikipedia as it provides an important resource to the public.

Leuren Moret - International expert on depleted uranium weaponry and radiation

  • Keep. Gang stalking is a recognized Internet phenomenon. It is a related but distinguishable form of cyberstalking in that it cannot be explained purely on the basis of Individual Psychology. Gang stalking requires causes and conditions that transcend the individual, and social psychologists invoke such principles as groupthink, social facilitation, and deindividuation to analyze the structure and dynamics of stalking gangs.
  • Keep GANG STALKING, but DELETE GANG STALK PERSECUTION COMPLEX.

"Gang stalk persecution complex" implies people who experience gang stalking are mentally ill. That is DEFINITELY not the case, as anyone who has read the literature or experienced gang stalking knows only too well.

Anyone doubting gang stalking itself is a real phenomenon needs only to read David Lawson's book "Terrorist Stalking in America". A review, with a link to purchase the book is here:

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/terstalk.htm

Also read what Los Angeles psychotherapist Sheryll Thompson wrote while reviewing a book on stalking:

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/psystalk.htm

Also, the Toronto (Ontario) Rape Crisis Centre supports the work of the anti gang stalking organization CATCH (Citizens Against Technological and Community-based Harassment), the web site for which is here:

http://www.c-a-t-c-h.ca

For those who don't think electronic anti personnel weapons exist, see this link:

http://www.shoestringradio.net/5techs.htm

Five silent, through wall, no trace evidence electronic weapons which anyone with a bit of cash can have, not secret, do NOT require implants, and can utterly devastate your neighbour. One has been around for 30+ years, another 50 years.

Eleanor White, professional engineer, Hamilton, Ontario Canada

Gang Stalking is a Real vicious crime and exists all over the world. Brighting is a world wide tactic of Gang Stalking and a must Keep!! Gang Stalk Persecution Complex is the many real horrific human feelings caused by Gang Stalking and Brighting!! Must Keep!! So Please Keep Gang Stalking, Brighting, Gang Stalk Persecution Complex definitions and see the following URLs for reference!

http://ca.geocities.com/lnp2003@rogers.com/index.htm

http://www.stopcovertwar.com/victimnet.html

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/

http://free.dominoserver.de/culture/antivigilantestalkingsurveydiscussion.nsf

Don Russell, Adv Software Eng


  • * * * *

-- Bob Ness, journalist.

this is a real problem,just because i havent seen god i dont tell people they are crazy and need to be locked up,its the same thing i know its real because its being used against me.no i cant prove it but dont be so quick to dismiss things they may be true and mabye peoples lives are being ruined because of it.

Please keep Gang Stalk Persecution Complex From Dictionary.com There is no imaginary and no mental illness word or implied mental condition in the definition of Gang Stalk Persecution Complex

The Gang Stalk persecution changes the behavior of a person (a complex) and creates a set of feelings the victim has.

Complex - In psychology, a group of related, often repressed ideas and impulses that compel characteristic or habitual patterns of thought, feelings, and behavior.

Persecution - punishment or harassment usually of a severe nature on the basis of race, religion, or political opinion in one's country of origin

Please Keep the entry on Gang Stalking - Gang-Stalking is a real phenomenon. I should know. I am being stalked. The stalkers rely on the public perception that people who report (gang) stalking are "nutcases." The police routinely ignore this crime. People find it hard to believe that something like this could happen. That is an unjustifiable conclusion-belief. People need a more available public resource to learn about this crime. I don't care what you do about the [Gang Stalk Persecution Complex] entry, because this entry incorrectly feeds the idea that victims are mentally ill. The stalkers get a psychological "thrill" out of hurting people. Only increasing public awareness is going to stop or slow this phenomenon.

KEEP, i am a victim of gang stalking and electronic harrassment. by the grace of god ive survived this abuse for two yrs. i am stalked daily by large groups of people so when i hear of things like the deletion of this page i start to lose alittle hope that someday these life destroying crimes will ever be brought to justice. i can only speak for myself but i cant understand why anyone would want to dismiss something that so many of us Americans are claiming to be true. we are good people with familys that deserve the benifit of the doubt. please keep this page in tact. Robert R.

ɖkeep maybe change the name to group stalking(24.25.62.85 03:14, 25 December 2005 (UTC))


Keep change name and explain more about this, as NEWBIES comming in do not fully understand what you are saying or what is really going on with this. Me i do understand. Even though the author is giving a medical term. for his or other's sake.. he/she is basically saying there isn't a madical term. for this as THE PUBLIC EYE has refused to see what is going on. And call the "victims" of this Looney or whatever the medical profession decides to term it. I do know know this happens. I am also a victim. although I am in a small town that just moved here just over a yr ago. THIS IS REAL PEOPLE> REALIZE IT! Get the word out! Help the ones who are victimized. www.groups.yahoo.com/group/cause_stalking

Keep this entry. This IS really happening in the United States today. With a government that thinks it's okay to listen to your telephone conversations and read your private e-mail as authorized by the president, why would you doubt that stalking of private citizens by more than one individual could be happening? It is very easy to simpy write the victim off as being "mentally ill" when in fact that is not the case at all. People need to wake up to what is happening in America NOW.

  • Keep or rework and /or move Gang Stalking.
    Why is it so hard to accept that stalking does not need to be done by one person? Some people do join to make a targets life miserable. In that mission these groups use whatever methods they can come up with. The goal -destroying the targets life - is what counts.
    Maybe change the name to group stalking and delete or rework the electronic stuff. Maybe rework the whole stalking subject: how many stalkers, their methods, if there is a group: how they form and how tight the group forms, their why´s for stalking and then the implications for the society.
    Add the electronics to "stalking methods".
  • Delete Gang Stalk Persecution Complex, Brighting
    These two subjects only adds weight on the targets shoulders
    • Christina / dolphin@drownedworld.org Please keep. Gang stalking is a real phenomenom.164.65.231.6 15:00, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Keep. This article not only has intellectual weight, empirical merit, and historical significance, but it is also of immeasurable civic value -- a socially conscientious piece that can prevent naive folk from expressing themselves in the wrong news groups and, for those who have already done so, it could help dissolve their sense of isolation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.170.81.63 (talk • contribs)

    KEEP THE ARTICLE ON "GANG STALKING" AND DELETE THE ARTICLE ON "GANG STALK PERSECUTION COMPLEX," WHICH IS SEPARATELY ADDRESSED. My comments are as follows:

    The practice of gang stalking, or group stalking, is widespread both in the United States and abroad. The intent is to terrorize and intimidate selected persons purportedly for "kicks." In certain venues, gang stalking is referred to as "bullying."

    This type of discriminatory stalking (which appears to have a religious element) is invariably accompanied by violence. This is nothing new. One needs only recall the heydays of the Know Nothing Party in the 1840s, the events following Kristallnacht in 1938, and the lynchings which punctuated the segregationist policies of the Deep South during the early half of the 20th Century.

    Persons who are gang stalked these days must also deal with violence, including but not limited to recurrent breakings and enterings, recurrent vandalism of their property, thefts, and extremely brutal harassment by electromagnetic and acoustical weapons systems.

    This topic must be addressed, as it is a part of our "encyclopaedic" history and cannot be disregarded. The practice, so long as it continues unconstrained, shows holocaustic potential, which no doubt will be of interest to future generations of Wikipedia readers. 

    /s/ Julianne McKinney, author "Microwave Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation," as also posted on Wikipedia.
    If you were to create a userid, we could then see your contributions, and assuming you are making some your vote would then carry a lot more weight. Andrewa 23:02, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

    KEEP: Gang stalking is a legitimate form of social crime and has been documented and reported on over the past 50 years using other terminologies. Current nominclature is "gang stalking." It is a serious psycho-social crime similar to mob violence but executed in more skillful and controlled manner. There are victims of this type of crime all around the world who seek public awareness of this crime. The Wikipedia has been timely in it's inclusion of this problem. Unfortunately, the water became "muddied" with the addition of "persecution complex" and brighting. Your responders who appeal to you to "keep" this page all agree that the "persecution complex" and the "brighting" needs to be delete....all except for the one misguided (perhaps) person who conceived of it and entered it. Please give the victims and those who work with them the benefit of the doubt long enough for further information to be forthcoming and posted. I am aware of TV reports and books pending and already available validating this problem. It's relevence in society seems to warrant giving this at least the benefit of the doubt. Thank you. /s/ Beth, San Diego, StopHiTechVigilanteAssaults.org

    KEEP

    Please sign your votes and note that, while anon votes do count, they don't count for very much. Andrewa 22:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

    Keep GANG STALKING (but remove “GANG STALK PERSECUTION COMPLEX".)

    As many very high on the food chain knows, but cannot or will not admit, Gang Stalking is quite real. As hard as it is to believe, even the tactic of the perpetrators using their children against those of the target has been confirmed by a child psychologist dealing with the resulting depression. Apparently, many of these kids start liking the people they are being used against and enter their psychological practice in order to assist with the resulting guilt.

    Why do some appear to have a hard time believing that what is widely known to exist in the school yard and work place has in fact transcended both?

    Mobbing is an important aspect of this crime, and the resulting pathologies are also well documented, but predominantly by occupational therapists. This was also proven by Dr. Leymann by using the same treatment modalities as those used for traditional Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

    As this has provided ample criteria for a differential diagnosis and treatment there is no need to create a new "wheel" as in the case of the persecution complex. Respectfully submitted. Rick Williams


    KEEPGANG STALKING (but not "GANG STALKING PERSECUTION COMPLEX").

    There have been so many cases of gang-stalking in the last 10 years or so that there should be no question about whether the term describes a real criminal activity. Anyone on the street and in the know has probably heard about it is already so why would you not include it? The crime works because it is usually an ongoing stalking of many against one individual and so hard to verify easily. But many have managed to get investigators to verify the facts of this crime. Also there have been videos capturing the crime in action. Any crime of many against one will be easy to dismiss and so dismissing this entry will help the crime to continue more easily. Please leave the entry so that victims of the crime can point to this entry as some type of evidence that they are not the only one making the claim.

    As far as the added "persecution complex", it seems to me that if you are unsure about the crime itself it is way too early to turn it into what the perpetrators have attempted it to be from the start--a tool to discredit individuals' reputations. We have "paranoia" and "persecution complexes" since Freud on. A crime that is perpetrated on an individual by a group is already heinous enough without helping them inadvertantly by creating a new name for a new "mental illness". If someone is in fact a victim of a "hate crime" would we also come up with a term like "hate crime persecution complex". I don't think so. It would be adding insult to injury. So I hope you decide to keep only "GANG STALKING" and wait for the mental health field to add the skeptical term add-on of "persecution complex" if they decide to. As far as I know the mental health profession has no intentions of creating this term at all. So it appears to be one persons' idea based on a misunderstanding of the meaning of the words "persecution complex". Thanks. T. Josephine

    Keep But Clean Gang Stalking

    I agree that this article is extremely idiosyncratic and a lot of the edits are rambling, perhaps even from a troubled mind. That being said, many of the tactics mentioned and cited are a serious issue, and someone who wanted to do these things (for political, personal or psychological reasons) could certainly make life hell for an individual. I think such behavior would almost certainly come from a disturbed individual and/or a Lord of the Flies scenario, but the tendency of people to be cruel is well known, whether from movies like Carrie or real-world persecution. I do not envy whatever person wants to try to clean this up and keep it up, but I think there is enough good material in here to keep. Rorybowman 04:49, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

    Usenet-philes, Stalkers, and a Class of Wiki Admin

    The expansion of the article with the section of new tools provides an objective and verifiable statement of evidence for gang stalking and should not be removed. The individual aggressively removing this content is comporting himself like a stalker. Many Usenet-philes occupy roles as Wiki admins and abuse that authority for the purposes of preserving an unimpeachable image of Usenet. They even use words like kookish and screed, words used by alt.usenet.kooks kookunters to stalk all sources of unconventional wisdom on the Web, to describe perfectly objective and verifiable content that does not mesh with their personal preferences and loyalties.
    Meanwhile, absurd or hatemongering articles like Alt.usenet.kooks, Catholic Church of Wikipedia, and snuh receive support from Wiki admins. And not just support for the existence of the article -- just try to append a subsection that qualifies or deviates from the Primrose picture of the content. You will be edited with extreme prejudice and threatening with banning.
    Wiki is another resource for gang stalkers, and principles of group psychology can be applied to make sense of some rather bizarre behavior from Wiki administrators (especially those who are anonymous).

    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.129.121.254 (talk • contribs)

    KEEP, The information people state is correct, only the devices used against those who have been victims have had the concept of deniability built into the weapons. This was at the governments request. The government made the mistake of giving the information to industry, who have used these military style weapons against those considered undesirables in our society. In my home town the former mayor used these devices against anyone he wished, why? To shut them up, to dissent his wishes was to be a whistleblower and a troublemaker. He ran the city like his fiefdom, this has got to come out. The actions of our gov't against its own citizens. That is why I laugh when Bush touts his freedom and liberty comments in his speeches.Gov't at all levels know this is happening and do not want the general public to know what is going on, niether do the local thugs carrying out their commands. Little do they know that they also and their children will suffer under this, for when we are gone, the stalkers will look for other prey,, it could be you. That is equality what can happen to me can happen to you. No one is exempt. Look at Bush he's scared poopless, military missiles on our buildings, radiation detector's in Va. maryland and D.C., NSA active and domestic spying, Osama really got Bush on the run, I know one thing, I was and am terrorized by these thugs, and I wonder how Bush feels and congress feels being terrorized as well, I am not alone anymore. That is equality, so you see what can happen to me, definitly can happen to anyone as well. I say keep this on stalkiing,harrassment,, because it gives us a voice and when this does come out and it will, then we can use this to document how many were killed, abused, robbed, and their lives destroyed by these high tech weapons used domestically,, maybe then we will have justice.This in itself will be part of the record.. We must, You must keep this at any cost. B.J. Guillette


    The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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