User talk:Faught
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snoyes 18:47, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Surely you know by now
that "he told me so himself" is not considered to be adequate sourcing for anything here, though I am happy with assuming good faith in this case. The fact is (another phrase for in my opinion) people lie all the time, both to editors and editors to wikipedia. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 06:06, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- Right, that's why I looked for sources. But note that the other entries in that section don't have citations at all. Faught (talk) 06:36, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- We can't control other edits, just our own. Carptrash (talk) 06:43, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- PS, are you an alum of that school? I am looking for some info about it, which is why it was on my watch list. Carptrash (talk) 06:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- No, I'm not. I can get in touch with Jerry if there's something he could help with. I wrote about it briefly here - https://swalchemist.wordpress.com/2016/07/24/jerrys-story-an-aspiring-auto-mechanic-changes-course/ and I have a few relevant comments that aren't published yet.
- PS, are you an alum of that school? I am looking for some info about it, which is why it was on my watch list. Carptrash (talk) 06:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- We can't control other edits, just our own. Carptrash (talk) 06:43, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- I assume that this discussion regards the addition of Gerald Weinberg to the notable-alumni section of Omaha Central High School (diff). I'm afraid that I have to agree with Carptrash: "He told me so" is original research, which is strictly verboten.
- I haven't checked the 1950 yearbook, which was cited in support of this assertion: without a page number, I'd have had to go through the whole thing. I suspect, however, that it only proves that someone named Gerald Weinberg or Jerry Weinberg attended Central. Unfortunately, the name isn't so unique that we can assume he was the notable Weinberg. We need a reliable source that definitively states that the author of Psychology of Computer Programming is a Central alumnus. I've done Google searches like (weinberg "psychology of computer programming" "high school") and (weinberg "psychology of computer programming" "omaha central"), but haven't been able to find any such source.
- I note that on Weinberg's page at Dorset House, we're given "[B]orn and raised in Chicago", with no mention of Omaha. Given that, I think that we have to remove him from the Central list, unless and until we find a reliable source to support his inclusion. If we can come up with one, I'd suggest that the fact and the citation be incorporated into the Weinberg article. — Ammodramus (talk) 15:36, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- You can disregard the "he told me so" comment. I'm curious - are you going to delete everyone else off the list that don't have a citation? I'm still trying to get the gist of what's allowed, and compared to what was already on the page, I thought I was doing more than what was required. Faught (talk) 15:52, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- Going through and checking up on all the entries on the notable-people lists for all the towns and schools on my watchlist would be a fairly Augean task, and one that I'm not ready to undertake. My approach is: use the watchlist to check up on new edits, and remove old problem edits as I happen onto them. If you wanted to go through the list for Central and remove the inadequately sourced entries, I'd certainly not object.
- I don't think it's necessary to include a citation for each entry in the notable-alumni list, as long as it links to a WP article in which the individual's connection to the school is adequately sourced. For example, there's no citation for Edward Zorinsky's inclusion in the list; but the Zorinsky article calls him a 1945 Central grad, and provides a citation. (This is my own interpretation of the spirit of the rules, not strict Wikipolicy: if another editor wanted to insist that all entries be supported by citations, I don't think I could make a strong argument against their position.)
- I don't think Jerry would want to put his high school in his bio. If I can manage to get the biography I'm writing published, that should suffice. I'm going to crawl back into my hole now.
- If you've got Weinberg's ear, could you suggest that he include his time at Central in his Dorset House bio or on his own website? That would give us a good source for the fact. — Ammodramus (talk) 16:24, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
I also only get into these sorts of lists if something strikes me as odd. I would not suggest removing anything from the list but keep plugging away at getting better citations. Carptrash (talk) 17:43, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, I found a published book written by Weinberg that mentions the affiliation with this high school. So it's not independent verification, but it is a published reference. Is that sufficient?
- I'd say that someone's own book or website is a reliable source for non-controversial information like their high school. Again, could I suggest that you add the fact to the Weinberg article? And, if you're citing a book, please give the page number(s), so that other editors can more easily check the information. — Ammodramus (talk) 19:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- Okay, I added it to the Weinberg page. Faught (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
- Cool—and thanks for the page number on the citation. Just a couple of suggestions: Wikilink Omaha Central, and include a brief explanatory "in Omaha, Nebraska", so that readers will know that he didn't attend a school called Omaha Central in the Chicago area. If he graduated from Central and the information's available, you might want to include the year. (I can't do this with a clean conscience myself, since I don't have access to Weinberg on Writing; and one of my pet peeves on Wikipedia is the editor who slips some new facts in under a citation, even if the source cited doesn't support them.) — Ammodramus (talk) 21:55, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
- Ok. He told me that he graduated and when, but I didn't include that information because he didn't say this in the book. By the way, you can find the relevant text by searching Google Books. Faught (talk) 22:06, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
- Cool—and thanks for the page number on the citation. Just a couple of suggestions: Wikilink Omaha Central, and include a brief explanatory "in Omaha, Nebraska", so that readers will know that he didn't attend a school called Omaha Central in the Chicago area. If he graduated from Central and the information's available, you might want to include the year. (I can't do this with a clean conscience myself, since I don't have access to Weinberg on Writing; and one of my pet peeves on Wikipedia is the editor who slips some new facts in under a citation, even if the source cited doesn't support them.) — Ammodramus (talk) 21:55, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
- Okay, I added it to the Weinberg page. Faught (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
- I'd say that someone's own book or website is a reliable source for non-controversial information like their high school. Again, could I suggest that you add the fact to the Weinberg article? And, if you're citing a book, please give the page number(s), so that other editors can more easily check the information. — Ammodramus (talk) 19:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
Nomination of Brian Marick for deletion
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