Talk:William Whitelaw

Untitled

So when precisely was he created Viscount Whitelaw (on or before 1983, obviously, but when?) orthogonal 19:08, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Done. rbrwrˆ 20:31, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yorkshire Ripper

It was Whitelaw who managed to dissuade Thatcher in 1980 from going to Leeds to take charge of the Yorkshire Ripper inquiry personally.

Is there a source for this? its tone would appear to me to be something from a typicaly exagerated political anecdote, and not terribly reliable. Iain 28 June 2005 13:46 (UTC)

I was wondering where that came from too, I've found and added a reference for it now. -- Joolz 16:32, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Above reference listed in External Links Section so citation still outstanding and citation needed tag had been in 2010. Reference now shown as citation and tag removed. JDE94.126.214.51 (talk) 10:56, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Willie Whitelaw ordered police to scrap inquiry into VIP child sex abuse ring

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2863814/Willie-Whitelaw-ordered-police-scrap-inquiry-VIP-child-sex-abuse-ring-Police-launch-probe-sensational-new-cover-claims.html

Just read this online, and came here to find no mention of it, so I'd thought I'd drop an early heads-up.Jonny Quick (talk) 00:20, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Deputy Prime Minister?

Many sources seem to point to Whitelaw being recognised as Deputy Prime Minister, including the House of Commons Library:

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN04023#fullreport

I agree. Given the discrepancies re. Whitelaw’s status, I propose that Deputy PM be added to Whitelaw’s info-box. We could add a “de facto” label if editors believe it is required. Thanks JLo-Watson (talk) 09:54, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey! Neither Rodney Brazier (2020) or Lord Norton (2020) (the sources used in the article Deputy Prime Minister of the United Kingdom) refer to Willie Whitelaw as formally being appointed Deputy Prime Minister - they both call him de facto Deputy Prime Minister. The DPMotUK article goes into more depth, but effectively Norton says that the first Deputy Prime Minister was Clement Attlee (who was appointed as such in exceptional circumstances) and the second Michael Heseltine (in 1995). In 1989, he writes, the Palace objected to Howe being appointed as such and suggested "Sir Geoffrey will act as Deputy Prime Minister".

Jonathan Kirkup and Stephen Thornton (2017) provide quite a complex discussion on how to identify the Deputy Prime Minister (I need to add this source to the DPMotUK article at some point) and table 1 might be of particular use (they also mention that there is a debate over whether it was the Palace or Number 10 who made the objection to Howe formally being Deputy Prime Minister!) They seem to take a less prescriptive view than Brazier and Norton on the subject.

I think that the issue is that being formally appointed Deputy Prime Minister and being deputy to the Prime Minister are two different things that are often confused. For my part, I would prefer it if we only included "Deputy Prime Minister" in the infoboxes of the former (which, I think, are the five people listed on the DPMotUK article), however I have lost this debate before in relation to the articles of both Eden and Rab Butler! A fellow editor effectively pointed out that removing "Deputy Prime Minister" from those infoboxes would be the same as removing "Prime Minister" from the infobox of Robert Walpole etc, which I did find quite convincing.

To get back on point, while I'd personally prefer it if we kept "Deputy Prime Minister" out of Whitelaw's infobox, I would, however, be content with adding a "de facto" label and a note in the body to explain the full situation (like in Eden and Butler's articles). I realise that I've written a lot here, but I hope that it helps! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 17:05, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

No problem - thanks for all the detail here! I would certainly support your suggestion of inclusion of office in the infobox - but with the caveats you have described. Happy to leave that for you to include if you wish? Many thanks JLo-Watson (talk) 11:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for making the edits to the infobox. I'll make sure to add something to the body of the article as soon as I have a moment (though I don't think that I'll be able to find a source for the 10 January 1988 part, just to warn you)! Willie Whitelaw is a clear example of a de facto Deputy Prime Minister. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 18:32, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

File:Yes check.svg Done The prose isn't great, but it gets the job done. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 20:27, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

JLo-Watson, almost a year on, do you have any thoughts on including de facto DPM in the infobox? I absolutely still think it should remain in the text of the article, but I've actually come around to the view that we should probably keep the infobox for actual offices rather than de facto ones, especially since it was held less than 40 years ago. Do you (or anyone else) have any thoughts? Thanks! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 12:29, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Arms

No crest or supporters in the picture.

What is an erect bee, anyway? 2A00:23C7:E284:CF00:C150:4E88:C7A0:E6AC (talk) 13:13, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

In Heraldry a bee is normally represented flying with wings extended, and generally upwards (this is often expressed as being "erect", but more correctly 'en arrière' i.e. flying away from the spectator 2A02:C7C:A8DB:4D00:D566:E0BE:EB41:13F4 (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

External links modified

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Speakers House Lecture

A lecture by Lord Norton "What if Ted Heath had resigned in October 1974 and Willie Whitelaw had become Tory Leader?" was delivered at the Speaker's House and shown on BBC Parliament and iPlayer from Monday 18 March 2019.94.126.214.51 (talk) 10:05, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 11 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved and existing target moved to William Whitelaw (disambiguation) as DAB page. (closed by non-admin page mover) Raladic (talk) 03:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

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William Whitelaw, 1st Viscount Whitelaw → William WhitelawWilliam Whitelaw – Already redirects here as the primary topic, he only received his title after he retired from front-line politics, see WP:NCROY. This may be an earlier undiscussed move. PatGallacher (talk) 12:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support per COMMONNAME.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:25, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:58, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
• It wasn't a post-retirement title. He was Leader of the House of Lords for four and a half years (and about half of the time he was de facto deputy prime minister according to the article). That's a significant part of his career. Adumbrativus (talk) 13:25, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Ok, I had forgotten about that. However most people will remember him from his time as Home Secretary, NI Secretary, coming second to Thatcher in the 1975 Conservative leadership contest. Whether he was still "de facto deputy prime minister" during his time in the Lords is moot, since this post is ill-defined, and he could not have become prime minister if something had happened to Thatcher. PatGallacher (talk) 14:17, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
• Comment. Actually, he's best-known as Willie Whitelaw! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Template:Ping removed the redirect and created a dab page, so pinging them for comment. Natg 19 (talk) 18:51, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I've restored the redirect for now. This looks like a clear WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to me - i.e. the disambiguation page should be at "William Whitelaw (disambiguation)". 96% of page views are for Willie. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 19:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Not good practice, to make controversial moves like this without discussion. Also, can we deal with one issue at a time please? PatGallacher (talk) 11:58, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Main Photo - time for an update?

The photo shown of Lord Whitelaw is really old and I doubt he would be recognisable to most by that photo (from the 60s) - would a photo from the 70s/80s (as Home Secretary or as Mrs Thatcher's deputy etc) be more appropriate? He was created a Viscount on 16 Jun 1983 - there must be photos of him in the House of Lords? Seems disappointing that such a distinguished politician has only 1 b&w photo from 1963. 2A02:C7C:A8DB:4D00:D566:E0BE:EB41:13F4 (talk) 21:29, 22 May 2025 (UTC)