Talk:United States presidential line of succession

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2023

Please change Speaker of the house from Kevin McCarthy To Patrick Henry Zackkoltz (talk) 15:41, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

This edit is supported by https://usa.gov/presidential-succession

which indicates speaker of the house as 2nd in the line and as stated by the above website and Pamela N at USA.gov Zackkoltz (talk) 15:57, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Not done -- Neither Patrick Henry nor Patrick McHenry is currently Speaker of the House. McHenry is "acting Speaker", which means he is not the actual speaker and thus not in line for presidential succession. Once the new Speaker is chosen, then that person will be placed in the proper position. (McCarthy had already been removed prior to this request.) -- Nat Gertler (talk) 15:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Patrick Henry, having been dead consistently since 1799, is ineligible for the presidency-- Nat Gertler (talk) 16:56, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

lolz - wolf 19:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

He's been dead consistently? I thought he got up and walked around Virginia for a bit once. Mdewman6 (talk) 17:01, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

The man said "Give me liberty, or give me death!"; both did not seem to be an option to him. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:11, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Very true. Though dead or undead, maybe he would appreciate a spot in the gubernatorial line of succession. Mdewman6 (talk) 23:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Template:Cross Kevin McCarthy is no longer listed as speaker of the House. And, Patrick McHenry is not speaker of the House, thus he will not be listed as a potential presidential successor. Drdpw (talk) 16:01, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

I spoke to three separate people at USA.gov who confirmed that Patrick McHenry is in the presidential line of succession. Unless the Government would lie about that? I have the chat logs and names as well as phone numbers of who I talked too. Zackkoltz (talk) 16:36, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Absent a statement to that effect published by a reliable secondary source, saying that he is in the presidential line of succession would be original research. Drdpw (talk) 16:53, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

• Not lying, just mistaken. See these secondary sources for example: businessinsider.com; king5.com; foxnews.com. Drdpw (talk) 17:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

  See also [1] Nil Einne (talk) 11:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Succession former two-time presidents

See Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution#Interaction with the Twenty-second Amendment.

That says: "The Twelfth Amendment explicitly states the constitutional requirements as provided for the president also apply to being vice president and the Twenty-second Amendment bars a two-term president from being elected to a third term, but it is unexplicit whether these amendments together bar any two-term president from later serving as vice president as well as from succeeding to the presidency from any point in the United States presidential line of succession." (my emphasis)

I quickly scanned this article but could not find where or if this aspect is discussed. If it isn't, I think it should.

Could a twice-President (say Obama or Bush) become Speaker of the House (or, say, Secretary of Veterans Affairs for that matter) and through circumstances serve as president even though he clearly is ineligible for being elected to the presidency?

(Obviously I don't expect a clear answer. I'm suggesting this aspect be discussed if not already)

CapnZapp (talk) 12:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

If this conundrum is discussed in WP:RS, feel free to add any statements that can be supported by such RS. Without such RS support, this should not be added to WP because that would constitute WP:OR. YBG (talk) 04:19, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

A suggestion

I believe that the table "Presidential succession by vice presidents" could be improved by adding a color bar for the (ex-)President's party. (As was added to the table of next-in-lines.) It would make it easier to spot the times when a party switch occurred.WHPratt (talk) 14:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

under the 1947 succession act

Wouldn't there have been two occasions here when there was not a Speaker in between the expiration of the old Congress and the election of the new one? This would be for at least a few hours on January 3, 1949 and from January 3-4, 1965. I think that the president pro tempore is generally designated by unanimous consent immediately upon the Senate convening, while the Speaker is subject to a full election process which can take at least an hour or two, so likely in 1949 Secretary of State Marshall might have been first in line for a couple of minutes, then President pro tempore McKellar for an hour or two.

In 1965, the new Congress didn't convene for a day after the old one ran out, so Secretary of State Rusk was definitely first in line for a day since neither Speaker McCormack nor President pro tem Hayden can have been re-elected to those roles until Cognress reconvened. john k (talk) 03:44, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2025

Charles Grassley, President Pro Tempore,is a Republican 2601:4C1:C600:2A0:F544:CB62:A41C:6F97 (talk) 17:57, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks; the party field has now been updated. Drdpw (talk) 18:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

A better table format

A more professional and visually appealing presentation can be achieved by using a well-structured table format. Including candidate portraits, a party color legend, and clear differentiation for ineligible candidates would enhance both the informativeness and the aesthetic quality of the display.

Legend

  Democratic Party

  Republican Party

  Not-affiliated

Legend

  Ineligible due to being a naturalized citizen, not natural-born.

  Eligible if acting officers whose prior executive branch appointment required Senate confirmation are included in the line of succession, which is unclear

Current order of US presidential line of succession

No.	Portrait	Office	Incumbent	Party
1	File:Kamala Harris Vice Presidential Portrait.jpg	Vice President	Kamala Harris	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
2	File:Us rep mike johnson official photo.jpg	Speaker of the House of Representatives	Mike Johnson	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Republican
3	File:Chuck Grassley official photo 2017 (cropped).jpg	President pro tempore of the Senate	Chuck Grassley	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Republican
4	File:Secretary Blinken's Official Department Photo.jpg	Secretary of State	Antony Blinken	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
5	File:Secretary Janet Yellen portrait (cropped).jpg	Secretary of the Treasury	Janet Yellen	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
6	File:Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, official portrait, 2023.jpg	Secretary of Defense	Lloyd Austin	style="background: Template:Party color" |	None
7	File:2016 March 16 Merrick Garland profile by The White House.jpg	Attorney General	Merrick Garland	style="background: Template:Party color" |	None
8	File:Deb Haaland, official portrait, 116th Congress (cropped).jpg	Secretary of the Interior	Deb Haaland	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
9	File:Tom Vilsack, official USDA portrait (cropped).jpg	Secretary of Agriculture	Tom Vilsack	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
10	File:Secretary Gina Raimondo (cropped).jpg	Secretary of Commerce	Gina Raimondo	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
11Template:Efn-ua	File:Julie Su Portrait.jpg	Secretary of Labor	Julie Su	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
12	File:HHS Xavier Becerra.jpg	Secretary of Health and Human Services	Xavier Becerra	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
13Template:Efn-ua	File:Adrianne Todman (cropped).jpg	Secretary of Housing and Urban Development	Adrianne Todman	style="background: Template:Party color" |	None
14	File:Pete Buttigieg, Secretary of Transportation.jpg	Secretary of Transportation	Pete Buttigieg	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
–Template:Efn-ua	File:Secretary Jennifer Granholm (cropped).jpg	Secretary of Energy	Jennifer Granholm	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
15	File:Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona, official portrait.jpg	Secretary of Education	Miguel Cardona	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
16	File:Secretary McDonough, official photo.jpg	Secretary of Veterans Affairs	Denis McDonough	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic
–Template:Efn-ua	File:Secretary Mayorkas Official Photo.jpg	Secretary of Homeland Security	Alejandro Mayorkas	style="background: Template:Party color" |	Democratic

Template:Talkref Template:Talkref Tausheef Hassan (talk) 13:31, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

I prefer the existing format. In my opinión, the pix do not significantly add to this table. They detract by making the table unnecessarily longer making it harder to view the whole table without any significant benefit. YBG (talk) 00:38, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

I like this format. I think most other articles of this type use a table format such as this, and the pink color for naturalized citizens is helpful information that is omitted in the current revision. However, the order of succession is going to change tomorrow. I don't know if this is a good time to change the format, it might be better to wait until we have the new people in place TheGame121.5 (talk) 23:50, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Please don't. The current format is nice & compact, without the images. GoodDay (talk) 01:07, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

The images are not really necessary, but can we at least keep the pink color for naturalized citizens? TheGame121.5 (talk) 01:23, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

The table in its current format is well structured, professional-looking, and is visually appealing. Pictures of office holders would add very little useful information to the table, serving only to lengthen the table unnecessarily. The pink shading is also problematic in that it is the same shade used in many tables to highlight and represent the U.S. Republican party, which is why shades of gray have long been used on this page for office holders ineligible to serve as acting president. Drdpw (talk) 05:13, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm also going to support the current format. It's more compact. On a desktop, the current format fits on one screen, while the version with portraits does not. -LtNOWIS (talk) 17:21, 20 January 2025 (UTC)