Talk:Tikal

Images

The first picture is IMHO ugly (no offense to the one who took it) !!! would you mind if i change the picture for some better one like found here : http://www.chmouel.com/geeklog/gallery/gallery_individual.php/centralam/4.html

I took the photo, and I'm not at all offended. That's something I took with a cheap instamatic years ago that I put here only for the lack of something better. Something better is very welcome, thanks for sharing your fine photos. Best wishes, -- Infrogmation 10:54, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have uploaded a new picture let me know what do you tink ? Let me know what do you think. Cheers. --Chmouel Boudjnah 19:59, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Thanks User:Infrogmation to have fixed the description of the picture, i could not remember which temple was it. --Chmouel Boudjnah 20:19, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Looks good! -- Infrogmation

File:Tikal1234.jpg

Tikal: View from Temple Pyramid 1 looking towards Temple Pyramid 2, with 3 (left) and 4 in background

I moved my old pic here to talk for the time being. Do you Chmouel or anyone else have a better picture with a similar view? The temple pic now at the article is certainly a better photo, but this one gives some idea of the size of the central portion of the site and that much of it is still overgrown. -- Infrogmation 19:19, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Humm i can't recognize on my pictures (i was really sick the day i went to tikal chicken bus killed me) maybe you can look on my website and tell me if there is one that may be good for your article ? --Chmouel Boudjnah 20:14, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The image for the Tikal Emblem Glyph is upside down. I'm trying to fix it but am new to editing... Lauldtho (talk)lauldtho —Preceding undated comment added 23:56, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Thew file is located at Wikimedia Commons, you would have to request help there. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tikalemblem.jpg Heiro 00:27, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Infobox

The infobox could be more informative to the site (and less cryptic about the UNESCO designation). As a Maya archaeologist, I honestly don't "get" much of the infobox. It should focus upon the site itself, and the city's history - not governmental designations. The Unesco info should be a footnote, or a lower paragraph. Remember, this is an Encyclopedia - it should cover the base knowledge first, and the details last. The infobox, therefore, should reflect the most salient features of the site (not political designations).Chunchucmil 15:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. However, it appears that the current infobox was carried over from, I guess, a standard template applied to other World Heritage Sites (e.g., see Delphi, Persepolis, and Memphis, for example. The WHS infobox is not consistently applied among all of its sites, however (see Statue of Liberty). I personally would rather see an archaeology-based infobox for Tikal and other sites, much like we discussed over on WikiProject Mesoamerica, but I guess the question comes down to what has priority (UNESCO, or Basic information?) -- Oaxaca dan 15:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm probably biased, but I would say that an infobox containing the relevant basic information as a (Mesoamerican) archaeological site ought to take precedence here over this much more specific aspect. That said, there's no reason why the article can't contain both infoboxes, say with the Heritage Site infobox moved a bit lower down to a section which discusses that context.

I know I've been promising for some time to develop a Mesoamerican site infobox, and as soon as I can string together enough time to develop one I'll see what I can do.--cjllw | TALK 01:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we all might be a bit biased here. :) Anyway, we could use the one Chun and I have worked on over on the Chunchucmil site as a springboard/working template. The information contained therein is simple, relatively easy to obtain, and so on. The list of potential information suggest on the WikiProject Mesoamerica talk page is great to look into when we have time, but some of it is somewhat more complex and difficult to obtain (# of structures, emblem glyphs, etc.). All of that material, though, would be excellant to have in a nice standard infobox. -- Oaxaca dan 03:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

potential infobox/starting point - something like this? I would like to put a bolded title on top, but i can't quite get the code correct at the moment. -- Oaxaca dan 03:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Insert Image Tikal
Country:	Guatemala
State:	Peten
Municipality:	Flores?
Culture:	Maya
Mesoamerican sub-region	Southern Maya lowlands
Peak of Occupation:	Classic Period
Chronological Range of Occupation:	Middle Preclassic - Terminal Classic?
Estimated Size:	60 km2
Estimated Peak Population:	100,000 - 200,000

Reorganization

I started reogranizing the page. Mainly moving stuff around, making it more concise, what-have-you. Opinions? Concerns? Please let me know. Peace -- Oaxaca dan 04:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

can someone verify the "First Prophecy" reference in the Etymology section? It sounds awfully suspicious to me. -- Oaxaca dan 04:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Map, please

A map showing where Tikal is located wouold be helpful. Thanks. -- 201.19.77.39 22:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Tikal geography

According to the current version of the article:

[quote] By far the most important and most complete urban developments occurred in the lowlands in the "central region" of southern Guatemala [emphasis mine]. This region is a drainage basin about sixty miles long and twenty miles wide and is covered by tropical rain forest; the Mayas, in fact, are only one of two peoples to develop an urban culture in a tropical rainforest. The principal city in this region was Tikal ... [end quote]

Surely the region in which Tikal is located should be described as northern, not southern Guatemala? This description needs to be clarified. Chris k (talk) 23:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Possibly it is meant to say "southern Peten" instead of Guatemala (as in the Peten Basin, not the Department). That would make sense (though not sure about validity of the claim "only one of two peoples to develop an urban culture in a tropical rainforest"). --cjllw ʘ TALK 05:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Stelae-Problem

Maybe it is, because my english is not so good but in Chapter Stelae it is mentioned on first Place in the List "Stela 1 dates to the 5th century and depicts the king Siyaj Chan K'awiil II in a standing position" - close to this is a Photo from a Stela with the comment: "Stela 31, with the sculpted image of Siyah Chan K'awil II" - Are Siyaj Chan and Siyah Chan two different Persons? Because they are on two different Stelae (1 and 31) -- Hartmann Schedel ^cheers 11:53, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Siyaj Chan K'awil II and Siyah Chan K'awil II are variant spellings of the same person - the spelling often depends on the language of the source, and also whichever system is being used to represent the Maya sounds - I'll fix this. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 12:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

ok, wonderfull, thank you Simon. But still this Person is on Stelae 1 and also on Stelae 31? -- Hartmann Schedel ^cheers 12:34, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Maya kings often raised a number of stelae bearing their own image, often at important intervals of time according to the Maya calendar, for instance to mark the ending of a k'atun (20-year period), to celebrate the dedication of a building or after an important military victory. See, for example, Quiriguá where K'ak' Tiliw Chan Yopaat raised a number of impressive stelae, or Copán where Uaxaclajuun Ub'aah K'awiil also erected a series of important monuments. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 13:32, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

thank you again Simon. I guess my problem is, that Stelae has a lot of Dates ON it but rarely dated by themselves (when are they worked). However, thank you Simon. -- Hartmann Schedel ^cheers 15:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Glyphs

Looking at the glyphs of Maya script, it is hard to detect any hieroglyphs. Time to stop the misuse ? 89.160.124.74 (talk) 12:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the place to decide upon usage. The term hieroglyph is frequently used in Mesoamerican archaeological publications, even a cursory search on google will reveal the term being used by Mayanists and other Mesoamerican scholars, e.g. here, so there is no reason not to use the term in the article. Simon Burchell (talk) 13:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Damage to temple from 12/21/12 party

Perhaps a section mentioning that one of the temples was 'irreperably damaged' by the end of the world parties held at the site? Preferably with before and after pictures. I don't know anything about it, but it seems that some of you probably would.

174.116.71.90 (talk) 23:15, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

According to the Guatemalan newspaper Prensa Libre, there was some damage to the steps of Temple II. A full report is due in 2 weeks; it might be better to hold off until then, when the damage will be properly described - at the moment details are rather scarce. Simon Burchell (talk) 23:29, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Earthworks

The article is inconsistent in describing Tikal's earthworks. In some places it assumes the earlier estimates done by Puleston, but then refers to the more recent survey work that implies the much larger size of the earthworks. Further, there's a line in there about there 'probably' being similar earthworks on the southern boundary,which is what Puleston suspected, but the survey work from the mid-2000's revealed no earthworks on the southern border of Tikal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eltroubadour (talk • contribs) 09:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

POV

The text gives no hint as to why the references should be believed. That the site, with its decorative structures, was a city is doubtful since there are no actual buildings with rooms in evidence. Of the history of the prehistoric people, I don't believe a word of it, since there is no way of finding those things out. The site might have been for zeppelins in the early 1900s. It may have been some sort of World's Fair grounds in the 1850s. Who knows? The idea that ancient Mexican Indians were barbarians is clearly Pennsylvania bias. 67.101.80.211 (talk) 09:35, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

On the contrary, there is now plentiful evidence that Tikal was a true city. Over the past decades, Maya script has been largely deciphered and its language identified - the inhabitants of Tikal have emerged from prehistory into history, we have dated events, names of kings and much, much more. Detailed modern surveys have uncovered the remains of a great many residential structures that left a lower archaeological footprint, extending a great distance from the monumental core of the city. As to the referencing, the article depends upon the best available sources for Maya archaeology. Not sure of the relevance of "Mexican Indians" - the site is in Guatemala; and no-one is calling them barbarians. Simon Burchell (talk) 10:31, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

ruler 22

Question: Who ruled between 562 and 593? --Lacambalam (talk) 04:08, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

We do not know who ruled - this is explained a little in the Tikal hiatus section. All the best, Simon Burchell (talk) 10:09, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

No commercial content allowed on Wikipedia

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#Questionable_sources.

No "promotional in nature" on Wikipedia. Senor Cuete (talk) 01:14, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141102134600/http://exploration.vanderbilt.edu/print/pdfs/news/news_dospilas_feature.pdf to http://exploration.vanderbilt.edu/print/pdfs/news/news_dospilas_feature.pdf

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External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150213011855/http://www.tikalpark.com/explorers.htm to http://tikalpark.com/explorers.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110914060753/http://www.asociaciontikal.com/pdf/56.03%20-%20Horacio%20-%20en%20PDF.pdf to http://www.asociaciontikal.com/pdf/56.03%20-%20Horacio%20-%20en%20PDF.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110914041426/http://www.asociaciontikal.com/pdf/27_-_Tirso_et_al.07.pdf to http://asociaciontikal.com/pdf/27_-_Tirso_et_al.07.pdf

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Not BOLD

The "Site description" section of the article uses many headings in bold, for example, the names of causeways, structures, lintels, etc. According to the Wikipedia Manual of Style (MOS:BOLD and MOS:NOBOLD), we should "Avoid using boldface for emphasis in article text."

Unless someone objects, I will modify the text, changing the boldface to numbered lists. To give everybody time to respond, I will not begin for at least two weeks. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 20:09, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Good - a common mistake. No need to wait that long, I'd say, as there are really no good grounds for objection. NB, the case would be different if those terms redirected here, but none seem to. Johnbod (talk) 01:39, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

At some point the stelae have been broken into subsections; my opinion is this looks awful, particularly in the Table of Contents where it leads to a massively expanded list. Common sense needs to be applied to MOS, and the bolded names aren't for emphasis, they are for clarity. Simon Burchell (talk) 10:07, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree. Shorter subsections with groups of features - Stelae 1-20 say (of which 11 have text), & so on- might be one approach. Johnbod (talk) 11:41, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

This is the article before someone added all those awful subsections. I think it works well with the bold, which gives clarity to individual items. Simon Burchell (talk) 12:08, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Agree with Simon Burchell. Heiro 12:42, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Note that,as per WP:MOS, "(MOS) is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply.". MOS is a guide, not a strict rulebook. The "no bold" is intended to stop bold text being dropped into the middle of paragraphs of prose text to interrupt the reading flow. Simon Burchell (talk) 13:11, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Template:Od I agree that the boldface here is used for clarity, not emphasis. But there are other ways. The causeways would look like this with a numbered list (without the inline citations):

1. The Maler Causeway runs north from behind Temple I to Group H. A large bas-relief is carved onto limestone bedrock upon the course of the causeway just south of Group H. It depicts two bound captives and dates to the Late Classic.
2. The Maudsley Causeway runs Template:Convert northeast from Temple IV to Group H.
3. The Mendez Causeway runs southeast from the East Plaza to Temple VI, a distance of about Template:Convert.
4. The Tozzer Causeway runs west from the Great Plaza to Temple IV.

Or we could use bullet points, if you think that the numbers imply ordering:

• The Maler Causeway runs north from behind Temple I to Group H. A large bas-relief is carved onto limestone bedrock upon the course of the causeway just south of Group H. It depicts two bound captives and dates to the Late Classic.
• The Maudsley Causeway runs Template:Convert northeast from Temple IV to Group H.
• The Mendez Causeway runs southeast from the East Plaza to Temple VI, a distance of about Template:Convert.
• The Tozzer Causeway runs west from the Great Plaza to Temple IV.

I think that either way is clearer than what we have now. And a major problem with the boldface is that some people would think, as per Wikipedia standards, that boldface stands for a self-referencing link.

What say you? --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 16:00, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

James Bond filming location

I made this addition to the article stating how Tikal was used by Eon productions for the setting of the James Bond film Moonraker. (N0n3up (talk) 09:51, 2 May 2018 (UTC))

Very early photos

This site could use one or more photos of what Tikal looked like when it first came to the world's attention. Macchu Picchu has one such photo, and it's fascinating to see it in pre-cleared state. I have no idea where to find such a photo in a free-to-use state, but perhaps somebody else would. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:49, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I have come across some a while ago while looking for an early photo of a Temple 33 before it was completely dismantled by archaeologists... I didn't find one of Temple 33, but I certainly came across others, and some were printed in books that are now public domain... I'll see what I can do. Simon Burchell (talk) 11:12, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:15, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Water Filtration

Tikal apparently had quite an advanced water filtration system:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-uncover-2000-year-old-mayan-water-filtration-system-180976186/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-75023-7

69.172.176.96 (talk) 04:44, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

2025 article in Antiquity

According to "Bodies found in ancient Mayan City: What a mysterious altar reveals about the culture from 1,700 years ago" (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bodies-found-in-ancient-mayan-city-what-a-mysterious-altar-reveals-about-the-culture-from-1-700-years-ago/ar-AA1CMVHR?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=50d47e3a90ea4a0a9d98635842c5466a&ei=54) an article in Antiquity tells about individuals from Teotihuacan buried in Tikal. It goes on to explain the importance assigned to the finding. 136.36.176.51 (talk) 00:29, 3 May 2025 (UTC)