Talk:Taiwan

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Cambridge Dictionary Has Revised the Definition of "Taiwan"

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

(Non-admin closure) This RfC is too malformed to continue. If anyone wishes to start a non-RfC discussion of this source they should feel free. If that discussion leads to the need for an RfC a new one can be created that includes a clear, neutral question.

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The Cambridge Dictionary previously defined Taiwan as “Template:Tq,” but it has now revised the definition to: “Template:Tq”

Some Wikipedia editors have resisted removing the word “country” because reliable sources have referred to Taiwan as such. However, I believe the Cambridge Dictionary is a representative and reliable source. Moreover, after the 2020 RFC, many reliable sources have adjusted their wording to avoid directly labeling Taiwan as a “country.”

Certain editors argue that “Taiwan” in English primarily refers to a country, while the island or geographical area is the primary meaning in Chinese. But as far as I know, the Cambridge Dictionary is written by British, not Chinese, authors. I'm not sure whether British people are more likely to understand English better than Chinese people.

Some editors claim that China's stance is irrelevant to Taiwan's definition. However, the Cambridge Dictionary has placed China's claim in a prominent part of the entry.

So far, I haven’t heard of China bribing the Cambridge Dictionary, nor have I heard of Chinese hackers infiltrating its website.

I hope the Wikipedia community will reconsider how Taiwan is defined. 49.157.47.20 (talk) 06:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are not dictionary entries. Titles describe content, not the other way around. Multiple topics with the same name are covered by WP:Disambiguation. CMD (talk) 07:18, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

It's worth noting that Cambridge did not add an alternative definition—they replaced the previous one. This may suggest they considered their earlier wording to be lacking in neutrality or appropriateness. 49.157.28.30 (talk) 09:38, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

1. The Cambridge dictionary is a single source; taking it as authoritative while ignoring all others would be cherry-picking.

2. A general dictionary is not an RS for politics, anyway.

3. This is not an edge case like Sealand; it's a country that's been independent for decades and has a population of over 20 million people. It's politically expedient not to call it a country, but there's no good faith argument that it isn't, which leads us to:

4. This is obviously Chinese propaganda - likely indirect - intending to delegitimate Taiwan's status, and therefore a violation of WP:NPOV and WP:NOTCENSORED. CohenTheBohemian (talk) 17:39, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Invited by the bot. It isn't just China that doesn't call it a country.....there is a long list of others who also doesn't, starting with the USA. It's contested and undecided. Calling it a country in the voice of Wikipedia is stating one of those opinions (and the less prevalent one) as fact. We should not do that. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:21, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

This is a bit disingenuous. It is obvious that countries who do not call Taiwan a country do so at the behest of China, for purely political or economic reasons (much like legislators backing bills drafted by lobbyists). The topic of recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign country is a political one. Outside of politics, there is a host of reliable and academic sources that would define Taiwan as a country. Countries who do not diplomatically recognize Taiwan very often behave as if it is one.

We can (and do) note that most countries do not call Taiwan a country. In fact, this is extensively covered in Political status of Taiwan. That does not change whether or not it is a country. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:34, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Not calling it a country is not the same as saying it is not a country. Slatersteven (talk) 14:26, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

If that's the case, why call it a country? Not doing so isn’t a denial of its status as a country, and it aligns with reliable sources. 49.157.47.20 (talk) 15:28, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Because some RS call it a country. To challenge that, we need RS actually saying it's not a country, not just offering no opinion. Slatersteven (talk) 15:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Before the 2020 RFC took effect, the description using “state” had remained stable for quite a long time. The main focus of the 2020 RFC was to choose between “country,” “state,” or another term—not to argue that Taiwan is not a state. The RFC did not reach a consensus that Taiwan is not a state.

Similarly, today we don’t need to prove that Taiwan is not a country. 49.157.28.30 (talk) 16:59, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Are you proposing changing country to state? CMD (talk) 02:11, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Well, According to the classification used in List of sovereign states and dependent territories by continent, modeling the wording after that of Kosovo might be one option. 49.157.47.20 (talk) 17:28, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

The Kosovo article states it is "a landlocked country". CMD (talk) 02:11, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

There have been several proposals to model the wording of "island country" after that of Japan, Indonesia, and others. In those instances, it seems the wording would even be consistent with the previous Cambridge Dictionary definition. I do not see how this recent change in Cambridge's definition would further the case of modeling wording after another specific country article. If anything, the notable aspect of the new definition is the fact that it clearly distinguishes Taiwan from China (as opposed to "mainland China"). Butterdiplomat (talk) 13:22, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

What question is this RfC trying to answer? "I hope the Wikipedia community will reconsider how Taiwan is defined" is not an appropriate topic for an RfC. See WP:RFCBRIEF. Phlar (talk) 03:50, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

• Malformed RfC This RfC is so poorly structured I actually didn't notice it was an RfC. Close as out of order and try again after an appropriate WP:RFCBEFORE and with an appropriately clear and neutral question. Simonm223 (talk) 13:32, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 May 2025

Template:Edit extended-protected Lead section:

Taiwan,[II][i] officially the Republic of China (ROC),[I] is a country[27] island and partially recognized state in East Asia.[l] The main island of Taiwan, also known as Formosa, lies between the East and South China Seas...

Explanation: The UN as well as most countries do not officially recognize Taiwan (or the Republic of China). TheLatinNerd (talk) 20:56, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

File:X mark.svg Not done: per prior RFC Wikipedia:TWRFC Cannolis (talk) 23:59, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes. Agree . It is an area, not a country according UN definition. 2607:FA49:2A3A:6F00:186B:DAD4:4B85:F231 (talk) 06:03, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

It may be worth clarifying again that Wikipedia is not a UN document and need not abide by how an organization chooses to define things. The UN, formed in 1945, also has member states, and does not strictly define countries. Taiwan’s foreign relations and political status are covered in this article plus two other main articles. Butterdiplomat (talk) 15:50, 15 June 2025 (UTC)