Talk:Show trial

1. REDIRECT Template:Archives

Japan

The section for Japan talks about it's conviction rates and gives two examples of previous rulings, but nowhere does it mention how all of that is related to the article's main topic. Is it implying that high conviction rates are a result of every trial being of a predetermined outcome? I mean, it should be clearly mentioned what is that entails the high conviction rates. Is it the judges/judicial system's preconceptions or the forced confessions obtained by the police? If so, how does that make every trial a show trial?

Furthermore, the last paragraphs are taken directly from Criminal justice system of Japan, which makes it all the more obvious that there hasn't been a lot of work done to the section to justify their relevance to the main topic of the article. I'm torn between rewriting the whole thing or deleting it entirely, but I think there's potential for improvement, so it'd be greatly appreciated if any editor with more knowledge on the topic could make it clear about how show trials are somehow linked to the Japanese judicial system. I'll take another look in the future if I have time, but I think more examples of concrete trials would be necessary to keep the section relevant. NicoSkater97 (let's talk!) 22:43, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

I deleted the section entirely per WP:NOR, as it seemed that a complete rewrite was necessary to make the section relevant to the topic of this article. The term "show trial" is mainly used in the context of political persecution, which is irrelevant to Japan's corrupt judicial system. 2602:FC24:13:1:E4F7:9065:0:1 (talk) 04:25, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Adolf Eichmann Trial

The article for the Adolf Eichmann trial states that the event was televised internationally and that this was for propaganda value. If a reliable source states that the Adolf Eichmann's guilt was presumed beforehand, shall we include his trial as an example of a show trial in the article's See Also? 72.24.227.225 (talk) 07:10, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Show trial vs. Kangaroo court

Some of the examples (and unfortunately reporters) confuse the terms "Show trial" vs. "kangaroo court". Both of them are in disregard of law an justice. However the principal difference is that show trials are trials widely publicized by the state with the purpose of influencing public opinion. Therefore in adding examples here it is insufficient to give a reference that some reporter or a pundit called it "show trial" but to make sure that it indeed matches the definition given in wikipedia, because many use buzzword cliches without much thinking. Therefore I deleted Russian and middle East sections. If you disagree, Please argue here. - Altenmann >talk 06:03, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

This information was removed with the following edit summary: "no evideence that censorsip law convictions are called "show trials"".

Template:Ping Reliable sources have described some public trials in Russia and the Middle East as "show trials". I am sure that the trials of Vladimir Kara-Murza and other critics of the Russian government were intended, among other things, to scare other potential critics and portray the accused as "traitors" and "fifth column", so it definitely influenced public opinion and behavior.

Template:Quote Template:Reflist talk -- Tobby72 (talk) 21:51, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

• As I explained already, journalists and other pundits tend to use strong words as attention-grabbers. We are encyclopedia and must write in articles according to the definition of the subject. For example, the quotation above says "Kara-Murza compared his case to show trials" -- "compared" is not the same as "is". - Altenmann >talk 22:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Current trials in Russia for allegedly "discrediting" the Russian armed forces or committing "treason" fit the definition of "show trials" quite well. The main difference between Vladimir Kara-Murza and Milada Horáková is that there is no death penalty in Russia yet, only extrajudicial killings by the state, but it is probably more advantageous for the regime to organize "show trials" with liberal, nonviolent opponents of the regime and present them before by the public as "traitors" and the "fifth column", instead of killing them in "accidents" like they killed Prigozhin. We both have a different opinion on the matter, but mine is supported by many reliable sources. I have not yet seen a reliable source saying that the trials of regime opponents in Russia, or in other non-democratic countries like Egypt, are not show trials. -- Tobby72 (talk) 12:46, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

It is insufficient to fit one condition of a definition. The key word in the phrase is "show", i.e., being widely publicized by the showmakers, i.e., by the government. In your case the trials are widely publicized by the opposition. As for our disagreement, we disagree with the meaning of "reliable sources" for the meaning of a term. If you provide sources that these trials were widely publicized by the government, then we agree. Second, you yourself wrote allegedly "discrediting" - which is a perfect match for the case of "kangaroo court": trupmed up accusations. - Altenmann >talk 17:55, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Azov trials

Greetings @Altenmann, I don't know if those Russia Azov trials [1] are a show trials, a kangaroo, both, or none, but sources do call them
How Russia Uses Show Trials to Punish Putin’s Enemies - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Mother of Azov Regiment POW, Tirelessly Seeks His Return From Russia (kyivpost.com) And it’s in no hurry to return Azov prisoners of war – instead “sentencing” them in show trials, for prison terms sometimes in the decades.
Russia’s Mariupol Show Trials - WSJ Last week U.S. State Department spokesman Ned Price denounced the Mariupol tribunals as “planned show trials” that are “illegitimate and a mockery of justice.”
Russia Charges Ukrainian POWs with Attempting to Seize Power by Force for Opposing Russian Invasion - Diplomacy in Ireland - The European Diplomat (diplomacyireland.eu) The Ukrainian soldiers of the Azov and Aidar Battalions face life-in-prison if convicted. Observers say conviction is an almost certainty given the specious basis for the prosecution, calling the proceedings show trials.
Russia’s Ukraine war propaganda persistence – Monash Lens Russia declared Azov a terrorist organization in September 2023, and is currently conducting illegal public show trials of two dozen Azov captives, nearly 40% of whom are women, who are likely to be subjected to torture and long prison sentences.
Sources call "Kangaroo courts" different trials, those where foreign POWs were tried:
Huge mass ‘sentences’ after fake trial of Ukrainian POWs whom Russia accused of its own war crimes (khpg.org) If Russia had any grounds for accusing Ukrainians of its own most egregious crimes, it would not be hiding the POWs and holding effectively secret ‘trials’ in kangaroo courts on occupied territory ManyAreasExpert (talk) 19:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I see. Newspapers can use epithets for more hype, and such claims must be attributed. Since there are several such sources, I self-reverted. Please add the sentence, something like, "Observers call these prosecutions show trials" and add the above sources as references, because we cannot call them "show trials" in Wikipedia voice. - Altenmann >talk 20:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. It will be re-evaluated in a future by more academic sources and wiki-editors will clarify it then. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 21:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)