Talk:Pope Francis

Requested edit

To the last line of the introduction, please add:

The references numbers might change? But I mean these two:

previously I meant Ind and Sky but here are the others. 2405:6E00:622:C387:2A9B:A7F1:B3B7:86 (talk) 06:17, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Existing references

395 "'Double standards' from pope, 'singling out' Jews, Israeli government says". JNS. 21 December 2024. Retrieved 23 December 2024.

396 "Dispute erupts over whether pope called Gaza situation a 'genocide'". Reuters. 22 November 2023.

397 Van "It is Terrorism": Pope Francis Denounces Killing of Two Christian Women in Gaza". Vanity Fair. 17 December 2023. Retrieved 19 December 2023. (On 4 May 2025 it was #394)

398 Armellini, Alvise (31 March 2024). "Pope Francis, in Easter address, calls for Gaza ceasefire". Reuters.

399 O'Connell, Gerard (29 January 2024). "Pope Francis: No peace in Israel and Palestine without two-state solution". America Magazine.

400 "Pope Francis Suggests International Study into Possible Genocide in Gaza". Reuters. 17 November 2024.

401 Ind "Gaza's Christians 'heartbroken' after death of Pope Francis who phoned them nightly". The Independent. 22 April 2025. Retrieved 22 April 2025. (On 4 May 2025 it was #398)

402 Sky "Pope Francis phoned Gaza's only Catholic church 'every day' - as priest reveals details of last call". Sky News. Retrieved 22 April 2025. (On 4 May 2025 it was #399)

403 "Pope's frequent calls to a Catholic church made him a revered figure in war-battered Gaza". AP News. 21 April 2025. Retrieved 22 April 2025.

404 "In brief Easter appearance at Vatican, Pope Francis urges Gaza ceasefire". Al Jazeera. 20 April 2025.

New References

BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyqgy6m8e6o

NBC https://www.nbcnews.com/news/pope-francis/pope-francis-gaza-church-war-catholic-rcna202189

Econ https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2025/04/24/the-pope-phoned-a-priest-in-gaza-every-day

DW https://www.dw.com/en/palestinian-christians-in-gaza-pope-francis-never-forgot-us/a-72324538

FP https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/how-worlds-oldest-christian-community-in-gaza-is-on-brink-of-extinction-13376282.html#goog_rewarded

AJ-new https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/1/under-israeli-attack-who-are-the-christians-of-gaza

WP (The Washington Post) https://web.archive.org/web/20231217012816/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/16/women-killed-at-holy-family-parish-gaza-israel/

Links to Wikipedia pages

And can you link these pages to the right bits of text in what I have added here, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians (already there)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war (already there)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_you_condemn_Hamas%3F connect to "condemned the Hamas-led attack"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_City link to "Gaza City" in "The Christians in the Gaza Strip lived in Gaza City"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahida_and_Samar_Anton link to "the killing of"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_Porphyrius_airstrike link to "it was bombed"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide link to "Gaza is a genocide" if possible (already there connected to "genocide")

In the section labelled Israeli–Palestinian conflict

2405:6E00:621:BFC2:D339:458E:CD2D:D745 (talk) 23:46, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

I named the references because the numbers have changed. 2405:6E00:622:C387:2A9B:A7F1:B3B7:86 (talk) 01:49, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

I also updated the request to show the current version of the introduction and "Israel-Palestine conflict" section, and show all the numbered references in case they change again. 2405:6E00:622:C387:2A9B:A7F1:B3B7:86 (talk) 06:17, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

I oppose this change. The introduction section change goes way too far in detail about his views on Gaza. The introduction needs to be way more concise than that. The second change goes too far into detail about the conditions in Gaza, and not things directly about Pope Francis himself.

Also, these changes give undue weight to the Palestinian side of the conflict.

I feel just as sympathetic for Gaza as you probably do. And I fiercely oppose everything Israel is doing just as much as you probably do too. But these changes don't fit well into the article, and more importantly, Wikipedia isn't the place for gathering sympathy and support. Terraviridian (talk) 05:14, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

@Terraviridian, it is directly about him, Almost every major international news source has an entire article about him calling Gaza's parish every night. Pope Francis was particularly passionate about defending the Palestine Catholics in Gaza (and other Christians, and other Palestinian civilians). There are multiple news stories that are about him and how much he cared about that issue. Most of the references I suggested adding mention him in the headline and are entirely focused on Pope Francis.

I don't know what I could do to avoid giving "undue weight to the Palestinian side of the conflict" without adding things that are "not things directly about Pope Francis himself"? He was the leader of the world's Catholics, that was his job and his role in life, so the things about him are going to be from the Christian "side".

The article already has appropriate balance, it includes examples of him expressing views that were more supportive of Israelis, e.g. "Francis condemned the Hamas-led attack on Israel on 7 October 2023" and that he called for "the release of all hostages".

2405:6E00:620:DC5B:BECD:874D:E738:FD01 (talk) 08:17, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

File:X mark.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the Template:Tlx template. Perception312 (talk) 20:43, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

This information is important but it should not all be put into the lead, a summarising paragraph should be put in the lead, with all of these details going under a relevant section Easternsahara (talk) 21:44, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

@Easternsahara, which sections do you mean? I was requesting to add just two sentences to the last paragraph of the introduction. Most of what I wanted added was expanding the existing paragraph at the end of the section with the heading "Israeli–Palestinian conflict". 2405:6E00:622:C387:2A9B:A7F1:B3B7:86 (talk) 00:43, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Pope_Francis#Israeli–Palestinian_conflict Easternsahara (talk) 01:35, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Wait I didn't read that correctly, I fully support both your changes. Easternsahara (talk) 01:36, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

@Easternsahara if I had started an account I could have edited the page myself by now? But from what it says on other pages about the war only much more experienced editors are allowed to add anything about the war, so maybe that wouldn't have worked. 2405:6E00:622:C46F:8069:885:2B73:B85D (talk) 06:46, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

I copied the code from one of those pages, but it looks the same as the old one so maybe it's still wrong. 2405:6E00:622:C46F:8069:885:2B73:B85D (talk) 06:50, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

More sources:

• https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-francis-gaza-church-call-1.7515038 "In addition to his nightly communications with Palestinian Christians in Gaza, Pope Francis also made public comments…"

• "The Enduring Connection Between Pope Francis and a Parish in Gaza" https://time.com/7279098/pope-francis-catholic-parish-in-gaza-enduring-connection-phone-calls/ Quote; “We lost a saint who taught us every day how to be brave, how to keep patient and stay strong. We lost a man who fought every day in every direction to protect this small herd of his,” (head of the emergency committee at the Holy Family church in Gaza)

• "Gaza's Catholics mourn Pope Francis. 'He used to call us at 7 p.m. every night'" https://www.npr.org/2025/04/22/g-s1-62064/pope-francis-gaza-church-palestinian-christians

• "Pope Francis‘He felt our pain’: Catholic church in Gaza grieves Pope Francis’s death: Pope made nightly phone calls to the Holy Family Catholic church from the start of the war in October 2023" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/22/catholic-church-gaza-grieves-pope-francis-death

• "The pope called them every night until his final hours. Now, Gaza’s Christians cling to the hope he left behind" https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/23/middleeast/pope-gaza-christians-mourning-intl

• "Gaza's Christians 'heartbroken' for pope who phoned them nightly" https://www.reuters.com/world/gazas-christians-heartbroken-pope-who-phoned-them-nightly-2025-04-21/

• Haaretz 8 May 2025 "The late Pope Francis, who campaigned for peace for the devastated enclave, called the church hours after the war in Gaza began in October 2023, the start of what the Vatican News Service would describe as a nightly routine throughout the war" https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/2025-05-08/ty-article/.premium/robert-prevost-first-pope-from-u-s-in-catholic-churchs-history-takes-the-name-leo-xiv/00000196-b10e-dbb0-af9f-bb9ea9620000 "(quoting Reuters) "We are happy about the election of the Pope ... We hope that his heart will remain with Gaza like Pope Francis," George Antone, 44, head of the emergency committee at the Holy Family Church in Gaza, told Reuters "We appeal to the new pope to look at Gaza through the eyes of Pope Francis and to feel it with the heart of Pope Francis. At the same time, we are confident that the new pope will give importance to Gaza and its peace," Antone added."

2405:6E00:622:C46F:8069:885:2B73:B85D (talk) 06:43, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

File:X mark.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the Template:Tlx template. Consensus still has to be established for these edits, especially for an addition to the lead of a highly-watched page. Also, this request has ballooned in size and is hard to even see what changes and what references you want changed or added. cyberdog958^Talk 06:36, 9 June 2025 (UTC)