Talk:Plan Dalet

1. REDIRECT Template:Archives

False dichotomy

Controversy section seems original research and has a false dichotomy between an "offensive" ethnic cleansing and a defensive nothing. Ethnic cleansing was the undisputed outcome; whether it was marketed as defensive or offensive by Israel is irrelevant. Same as the 1967 war the outcome was a brutal military occupation; whether it was marketed as defensive or offensive war is irrelevant. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:52, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Unsourced info

I removed from the article the following: "On the Jewish side, the number of those killed during the execution of the plan was 1,253, of which 500 were civilians." This sentence was accompanied with a citation needed tag which included the text "reason=not in Morris". IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 05:55, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Removal of content

I rewrote the 'Outcome' section, removing the following:

According to Benny Morris, the Plan's execution lasted about eight weeks, beginning April 2. In these weeks, the Yishuv's position changed dramatically. Many Arab leaders left the country and local leadership collapsed. Jewish military operations precipitated a mass exodus of 250,000–300,000 people. According to Benny Morris, this "massive demographic upheaval ... propelled the Arab states closer to an invasion about which they were largely unenthusiastic".

-IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:50, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Changing the population exodus from 250,000-300,000 to 800,000 warrants discussion here. Sourcing to Pappe or Morris alone is not sufficient.--FeralOink (talk) 17:46, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

The lower numbers refer to a portion of the total expelled (those expelled prior to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War I believe).

The higher number is the total number expelled. Per the infobox of this article Plan D went on until the end of the war. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:26, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Benny Morris and Ilan Pappe and Palestinian Studies articles aren't the only experts

Here, this is the text of Plan Dalet along with reproduction of a scholarly journal article written about it. Sarcastic comments about the article not conforming to Pappe's views are unhelpful. FeralOink (talk) 17:43, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Not a reliable source what you're citing. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:21, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Can I ask what the point of this post is? "Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archiving or removal." (WP:TPG IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:29, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

The point was to broach my concern about overreliance on three sources: Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, and the guy who wrote the Palestinian Studies article (I forgot his entire name, part of it is Walid). Upon further examination, Walid is the most mainstream, least fringe, and academically respected of those three. Both Walid and the other source I found at the link I provided above wrote their original papers in the 1980s and 1972, respectively. That doesn't mean they are outdated, and Walid's was re-issued in an updated version within the past 10 years. So I have changed my concern to this: I don't believe it is reasonable to rely so heavily on Morris and Pappe. I am unable to find many alternative online sources admittedly.--FeralOink (talk) 00:15, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Quotes section of Pappe and Morris

I am going to ask Diannaa about the massive length of the Quotes section of this article. She can help determine whether they are copyvios or not. This is an entirely separate matter from my prior comment on this talk page. FeralOink (talk) 17:52, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

I have removed several of the longer quotations to better comply with our non-free content guideline. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 21:16, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, Diannaa. It looks much better now!--FeralOink (talk) 00:06, 20 April 2025 (UTC)