Talk:Old Church Slavonic

The deletion of the term Bulgarian in this article and its substitution with the term Macedonian as ultra-nationalistic POV

Throughout the Middle Ages and until the early 20th century, there was no clear formulation or expression of a distinct Macedonian ethnicity. The Slavic speaking majority in the Region of Macedonia had been referred to (both, by themselves and outsiders) as Bulgarians, and that is how they were predominantly seen since 10th, up until the early 20th century. It is generally acknowledged that the ethnic Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th century or even later. However, the existence of a discernible Macedonian national consciousness prior to the 1940s is disputed. Anti-Serban and pro-Bulgarian feelings among the local population at this period prevailed. According to some researchers, by the end of the war a tangible Macedonian national consciousness did not exist and bulgarophile sentiments still dominated in the area, but others consider that it hardly existed. After 1944 Communist Bulgaria and Communist Yugoslavia began a policy of making Macedonia into the connecting link for the establishment of new Balkan Federative Republic and stimulating here a development of distinct Slav Macedonian consciousness. With the proclamation of the Socialist Republic of Macedonia as part of the Yugoslav federation, the new authorities also started measures that would overcome the pro-Bulgarian feeling among parts of its population. In 1969 also the first History of the Macedonian nation was published. The past was systematycally falsified to conceal the truth, that most of the well-known Macedonians had felt themselves to be Bulgarians and generations of students were tought the pseudo-history of the Macedonian nation.

See also

• Macedonian Question
• Macedonian Bulgarians
• Macedonian nationalism
• Macedonians (ethnic group) - chapter "Identities"

Discord server for the editors of the Old Church Slavonic Wiki?

Dear all,

I was wondering if there is a discord server or anything of the sort for the editors of the OCS Wiki as it'd make direct communication quite a bit easier.

Kind Regards,

Міи

The page can benefit from several points

The Wikipedia page on Old Church Slavonic could benefit from the following clarifications:

   - Define Old Church Slavonic language, explaining the use of "Church" in its name ?
   - Specify whether people in medieval Central and Eastern Europe widely spoke Old Church Slavonic. Why would anyone speak church language ? 
   - Distinguish between the Old Church Slavonic language and the Old Church Slavonic script.
   - There was a common pool of vocabulary and various dialects. But we know of the existence of this common language through the canonical written scripts used in religious texts. 
   - Writing and copying specific texts comes from original sources. Whats the origin ?

Can we get a source request for 'Srbinčica', or else remove it, or something?

Being from Balkans myself but never having encountered this term, not even in university classes that focused on South Slavic language history, the term intrigued me.

The only two results on Google for 'srbinčica' are this article, and another page that seems to copy the contents of this article, and also doesn't seem to work; looking it up in Cyrillic, 'србинчица', yields no results. This is surprising if you assume it's a thing. Here is the edit that put it on the page as it is so far, seems to be displacing any mention of Bosančica. There is unfortunately very much animosity among the people in the region, resulting in things like this.

Were it the previous edit, I would undo it as vandalism or something. But it having stuck around for this long, I don't know Wikipedia functionality and regulations enough to do this properly. So I'm adding this topic instead, hoping you experienced users will do what's needed.

21:42, 25 December 2024 (UTC) 87.250.118.254 (talk) 21:42, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Done Shadow4ya (razgovor) 22:17, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Content weight

Hello Kromid. Could you elaborate what is undue about the line by Birnbaum? None of the other sources cited here, except Birnbaum, discuss the possible origins of the term Old Macedonian, so I do not see what is seemingly contradictory either. To me, this content appears to be appropriately attributed. StephenMacky1 (talk) 11:55, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

OCS has also been variously called...

OCS has also been variously called Old Bulgarian, Old Macedonian, Old Slovenian, Old Croatian, or Old Serbian, or even Old Slovak

The source (Kamusella 2008) does say this, but is it actually true? Aside from Old Bulgarian and Old Slovenian, I have doubts whether the other names have been seriously used. I am aware that Franc Miklošič used the term "Old Slovenian" (he operated with the theory that Slovenian is a direct descendant of OCS), which is notable enough, but what about the rest? Kamusella simply points to the extensive bibliography by Stankiewicz and Worth, and you're left to dig through it. There, at least with ctrl+f, I can only find one instance of "Old Croatian" (J. Hamm, Starohrvatski prijevod...), which however refers to a CS text of the Croatian recension, not OCS, and there's no mention of "Old Serbian". — Phazd (talk|contribs) 01:15, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

It is about domestic usage, not whether they have serious usage, as per source. It can be reworded if necessary. StephenMacky1 (talk) 11:30, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

@StephenMacky1 What do you mean by 'domestic' usage? — Phazd (talk|contribs) 19:51, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

By domestic usage, I mean linguists/authors from certain countries who have called OCS by other terms. The source lists Serbian, Croatian, Slovene linguists and etc, as employing other terms. StephenMacky1 (talk) 19:55, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

@StephenMacky1 That's what I had in mind too, I don't see the difference between "domestic" and "serious" terminology anyway. My problem here is that the source doesn't list the actual linguists or give some other way to verify that these terms were used. So I'm wondering whether these terms have actually been used in the given countries at all. I've at least leafed through if not carefully read various older Croatian and Serbian linguistic texts and (until now) couldn't remember any usage of "starohrvatski" or "starosrpski" in the sense of "OCS". So where am I to look to verify the claim?

While writing this I remembered one possible case, and it turned out to be right - Fran Kurelac did try to prove that OCS is "staro-hervatski" (Old Croatian) in Recimo koju (1860). But I don't think anyone else agreed (Vatroslav Jagić explicitly rejected the idea). Kurelac himself was a relatively marginal linguist... — Phazd (talk|contribs) 22:32, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

I see. Well, you can try asking some of the WikiProjects here. Perhaps, they can give an input. StephenMacky1 (talk) 00:04, 13 March 2025 (UTC)