Talk:Mount Ararat

[[Category: good articles|Mount Ararat]]

Citation Needed and it reversion

To Yerevantsi, I don't hold grudge against your or your ethnicity's background. But judge from your name that implied you are an Armenian, I don't see any urgency of you to always reverted or undo that I put on the introduction of Ararat's page. If we wanted to improve this article, we need to put the citation for what can be considered as "claim". By giving I by no mean willingly move and motivate to vandalise or undermine Armenian topics in en.wiki. Perhaps, instead of keeping reverse it, you can put the source that backs the claim up. Thank you, շնորհակալություն, shnorhakalutyun. Mfikriansori (talk)

Reaching consensus on Ararats location in Kurdistan

I have now collected two sources wich support Ararat being in Kurdistan and being its highest peak (although that is logically already the case if it is in Kurdistan but for the sake of clarity I have included that source in my edit). Now I have no consensus here, so I would like to reach that. The edit wich I want to reinstate is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mount_Ararat&diff=prev&oldid=1235639053. @Yerevantsi we had a disagreement so id like to reslove that. Karkafs Desiderium (talk) 11:33, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm missing it, but I don't see the name "Northern Kurdistan" (or even Kurdistan) on the first map. I only see "Kurdish-inhabited area". I also don't see the name "Northern Kurdistan" on the second map, but it's irrelevant because that map is not labeled in English, so is not a source for what the area is called in English. So based on this, I would oppose adding the "Northern Kurdistan" label, which is still unsupported by sources, and I still contend it is logically inconsistent to say something is in "Eastern Turkey and Northern Kurdistan" because to the extent that "Northern Kurdistan" is meaningful, it is a name for a subset of eastern Turkey. CodeTalker (talk) 22:07, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

You are correct in that the map lables the region "Kurdish-inhabited area" not "Kurdistan", but this is irrelevant because both terms effectively mean the same thing;

1. Kurdistan means "Land of the Kurds"
2. The definition of Kurdistan is; "A region wherein the Kurds form a prominent majority of the population".
3. A different map based on that 1992 CIA map I used is used to represent "Kurdistan" in its own article, both in its Infobox and as the page image, you can put both maps next to one another, they show the same region.

The second map I used was not a source for the term "Nothern Kurdistan", it was a source for Ararat being Kurdistans highest mountain. The map indicates this by highlighting Ararat specifically. It also uses both the English name (Ararat) and the Kurdish name (Agiri) to label the mountain.

Now for using "Nother Kurdistan" I would like to add that Nothern Kurdistan is not a official subset of the Eastern Anatolia Region (Eastern Turkey), instead Nothern Kurdistan or Turkish Kurdistan is the Kurdish part of Turkey, which is not equivalent to the Eastern Anatolia Region. Nothern Kurdistan is considered one of the four subsets/parts of Kurdistan btw.

I hope I explained myself well enough. Karkafs Desiderium (talk) 07:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure we're on the same page. What you're trying to achieve here is WP:OR. The statement/claim that Ararat is the highest peak of the Armenian plateau/highlands is widely found in scholarly literature, e.g.:

• Joel Mokyr, The Oxford Encyclopedia of Economic History, p. 156 "Mount Ararat (5,165 meters [17,044 feet]) is the highest peak of the Armenian Highland, which is the homeland of the Armenian people."
• Tsypylma Darieva, Making a Homeland, p. 62 "Mount Ararat , the highest peak of the Armenian Highland"
• Rouben Paul Adalian, Historical Dictionary of Armenia, p. 84 "ARARAT. Highest and largest mountain on the Armenian plateau"

You can't just cite maps in an attempt to prove that Ararat is in "Kurdistan" (in quotes because it's not well-defined). We actually need scholarly sources explicitly stating that and explaining the relevance of that statement. In contrast, Ararat's association with the Armenian people and its central location in the Armenian plateau is extensively covered in this article using a myriad of sources. ----Երևանցի ^talk 10:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

The first map I cited is not useless, it is a map by the CIA from 1992 which shows Kurdistan including Ararat. If you disagree that "Kurdish-inhabited area" is Kurdistan then I might mention that this is so accepted that the map to represent Kurdistan here on Wikipedia (e.g. the page image) is based on the CIA map which I citied.

If you want more sources which prove Kurdish presence in Ararat I can get those. Btw Ararat is also associated with Kurds, I mean do you not know about the Republic of Ararat?

(Ignore this if you want) Also I want to mention that I am not here to deny Armenian history at all, going off your user name you are Armenian. Ararat being in Kurdistan does not mean that its not Armenian, quite the opposite. Its a mountain it doesnt speak Armenian or Kurdish, it being Armenian and Kurdish comes from the peoples living there. Karkafs Desiderium (talk) 13:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Do you think there is a comprise possible (answer if yes, ignore if not) Karkafs Desiderium (talk) 13:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Seek Wiki editor's permission to add. I have COI as book's author

·       Antonson, Rick (2016). Full Moon Over Noah's Ark: An Odyssey to Mount Ararat and Beyond. New York, NY: Skyhorse Publishing. 978-1-5107-0565-4. Inkroads (talk) 19:57, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Greater Ararat height should be added as well

I came to the article expecting to see the height of both but only the Little Ararat height is present.

Would it be possible to add the other one's too?

I saw on other sites it being 5,137 87.241.159.18 (talk) 07:31, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Tigranes IV coin

The caption under the image of the Armenian king's coin – "Ararat on an Artaxiad coin of the Roman client king Tigran IV and queen Erato from 2 BC–AD 1." – should be changed to: "Ararat on the reverse of a coin of the king of Armenia Tigranes IV and queen Erato from 2 BC–AD 1."

• Reason 1. 98% of readers don't know who Artaxiads were, Tigranes IV was the king of Armenia and not the "king of the Artaxiads"
• Reason 2. Rome has nothing to do with this coin or Ararat. The mountain had no significance for Rome, only for Armenians. Why mention some formal recognition of Augustus' authority by the Armenian king?

Rs4815 (talk) 10:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. I've edited the caption. ----Երևանցի ^talk 11:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)