Talk:Manzanar

This is not of FA quality

This article received its FA rating back in 2007, at a time when the standards at FAC were considerably more relaxed than they have since become. Looking through this article, it is apparent that it does not meet present FA standards; indeed, it may even struggle to reach GA status. There are various sentences throughout the article that are simply unreferenced; the formatting of the citations that are used are haphazard; various sections, such as "Township", are badly organised and full of stand alone sentences; and there is an over-reliance on free web sources as opposed to more expert, print sources. I appreciate that a lot of time and effort probably went into getting this to FA status back in the noughties, but it is now time that we send this along to featured article review. Midnightblueowl (talk) 18:53, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Feature article review

Just to make sure people see this, please come participate in the feature article review discussion. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:39, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Content removed

The content below from the indicated sections was removed for various reasons, usually because of lack of citation. Please discuss these items in their sections below. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

In popular culture

The following content was removed because the mention was incidental or limited (such as to a single episode of a TV series, or a single scene in a film). These should be incorporated into the subject articles. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• In the 1984 movie The Karate Kid, Daniel reads the letter which informed Mr. Miyagi of the death of his wife and son during child birth on November 2, 1944, while in the Manzanar Relocation Camp. Mr. Miyagi was fighting for the US against the Germans in Europe when he received the news.
• A 2007 episode of the CBS television crime drama Cold Case, titled "Family 8108", dealt with the 1945 murder of a Japanese American man in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania after he and his family were released from Manzanar. The episode originally aired on December 9, 2007.Template:Secondary source needed
• Episode 253 of 99% Invisible, which aired March 2017, focused on Manzanar.Template:Secondary source needed

Owens Valley Paiute

This paragraph was removed because the references used are not verifiable (except for the one verifying the size of the lake):

• "The Army didn't take them on a direct route, either, said Owens Valley Paiute elder Irene Button. "They were forced to walk all the way around the eastern shore of Owens Lake (covers an area of approximately ). They wanted to make sure that as many as possible would die before they reached Fort Tejon."
  • I may have found a book that talks about this. We'll see when I access it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:49, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Closure

These sentences were removed from the third paragraph (following "... ("Soul Consoling Tower")."):

• The monument is often draped in strings of origami, and sometimes survivors and other visitors leave offerings of personal items as mementos. The National Park Service periodically collects and catalogues such items.

National Historic Landmark and National Historic Site

The following sentence was removed as sources have proven difficult to locate. (It was prior to "The Manzanar National Historic Site also unveiled its virtual museum..."):

• In late 2008, historically appropriate vegetation was planted near the Visitor Center.

References removed

Removed because they are apparently not reliable. Please feel free to comment on why or why not they are reliable. The name of the ref is in quotes, with the citation below that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:43, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• "AikoWords":
• "DenshoTerminology":
• "Reflectionsiii–iv"
• "SKE-ManzanarCommittee"
• "McCarthy-Human Quest"
• "Ito-MotherJones"

External links

These are the links in the External links section. There are far too many. Let's whittle them down a bit. Feel free to make comments under any specific links. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• Linking WP:ELNO for consideration. buidhe 04:48, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• Adams photographs of Manzanar War Relocation Center, Library of Congress, Prints and Photographs Division
  • Could be used in the article, perhaps in the Preservation and remembrance section. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• The struggle for self government at Manzanar Relocation Center, The Bancroft Library
  • Could be used as a ref instead. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Manzanar Assembly Center letter and telegrams, 1942–1943, The Bancroft Library
  • Not sure for this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Forced Relocation and The Owens Valley By Lee Hanover, University of Nevada, Las Vegas
  • Could be used as a ref instead. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Deepest Valley: Owens Valley resource
  • I think this one can go over on the Manzanar, California article. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Eastern California Museum
  • Not sure on this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Historic American Buildings Survey (HABS) No. CA-2399, "Manzanar War Relocation Center, Owens Valley off U.S. Highway 395, six miles south of Independence, Inyo County, CA"
  • Not sure. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
  • No opinion on the other links, but the HABS link should be kept in some form (either as a ref, or further reading, or external links). The text contains a pretty detailed construction history and physical description of the buildings, which is a useful resource (and/or some portion could be incorporated into the article if one wishes), and is unlikely to be replicated in that much detail in any other source, I think. In addition, the link includes a scale map and a few nice hi-res images. Finally, being included in the HABS is a point of significance in itself (not that the site needs the recognition, but still). Andrew Jameson (talk) 11:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Manzanar Cemetery
  • Not sure. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
    • It's user generated content so I would just axe it. buidhe 04:48, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
      • Template:Respond. If there were more images, I might argue to keep it. As it is, there are only eight photos there, so it's not a terribly useful resource. I have removed this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:58, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Manzanar Committee – official web site
  • Definitely keep this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Manzanar National Historic Site, National Park Service
  • Definitely keep this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Photo Journal: Solemn Lessons From Manzanar," by Mario G. Reyes, Rafu Shimpo
  • Could be used in the article, perhaps in the Preservation and remembrance section. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Prehistory of Owens Valley
  • I think this one can go over on the Manzanar, California article. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Smithsonian Institution: A More Perfect Union
  • Could be used as a ref, though it's all in Flash, so it will be hard to cite. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• "Manzanar," Glen Kitayama, Densho Encyclopedia
  • Could be used as a ref instead. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• "Manzanar Free Press (newspaper)," Patricia Wakida, Densho Encyclopedia
  • Could be used in the article, perhaps in the Preservation and remembrance section. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Manzanar National Historic Site, National Park Service at Google Cultural Institute
  • Not sure. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Manzanar Cultural Landscape Report, Manzanar National Historic Site
  • Definitely keep this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• Manzanar Geography of the Manzanar War Relocation Center
  • Could be used in the article, perhaps in the Preservation and remembrance section. Also as a ref. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I've removed all but seven of the links. This reduced it by nearly two-thirds. I think the remaining links should be sufficient. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 03:23, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Further reading

I'm thinking that "Owens Valley resources" might be better moved to the Manzanar, California article. The "Wartime-related resources" which are reliable secondary sources should be cited in the article; those which are primary sources should be kept as further reading. The Post-War-related resources looks like it has accumulated several books which are only tangentially related (if at all); I would axe most of it. buidhe 04:48, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I've moved the "Owens Valley resources" to Manzanar, California#Owens Valley resources. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Wartime-related resources

Buidhe, please specifically mark which ones you think should be kept as further reading and which should be used as references (if possible). Please give reasoning, if you can. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 05:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• • Remove, contains no information that isn't in the next book. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Change to the 1944 edition, which is free full text, and link that. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Children's book, remove. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove. I don't see how this is adding anything to the article. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Marginally reliable popular history book, may be worth keeping. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, seems to be related to a different camp. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Keep, relevant but not useful as a reference. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Removed both Huffpost articles as it's a marginally reliable source. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • This is a video documentary. Move to external links. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, seems to be about internment in general with little on Manzanar. I've added it to Japanese American internment. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Removed as irrelevant since it has almost no information on the camp. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Should either be cited or deleted, depending on how much detail it has on Manzanar specifically. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure how to deal with memoirs, they are probably not WP:RS for our purposes here, and my inclination would be just copy them to the wikiarticles of their authors. If the author/book isn't notable, it probably isn't worth keeping. buidhe 05:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I've trimmed the list per this discussion. Down to four now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 03:36, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Post-War-related resources

Buidhe, please specifically mark which ones you think should be kept as further reading, which should be used as references (if possible), and which should be axed. Please give reasoning, if you can. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 05:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• • Remove, not sufficiently related to the topic. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Remove/move to Embrey's article. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
    • I think this one is sufficiently related to be here, too. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:58, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, this is about restitution for internment not Manzanar. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, irrelevant. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, this is about internment in general, not Manzanar specifically. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, this is about restitution for internment not Manzanar. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, irrelevant. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, unrelated to Manzanar. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
• • Remove, questionable reliability. buidhe 05:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
    • It's from a long-running newspaper in Los Angeles. I'm not seeing the "questionable reliability" issue. I think this one should be kept, too. I've removed all of them but the two I mentioned here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:58, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Muslim pilgrimages

The article states:

Since the September 11 attacks, American Muslims have participated in the Pilgrimage to promote and increase awareness of civil rights protections in the wake of widespread suspicions harbored against them post-9/11.

Is this still happening? Does anyone have articles more recent than 2008? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:51, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm finding sources for 2017 and 2019. Seems it's still a thing. buidhe 05:22, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Awesome. I've added the LA Times article and added a sentence. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Additional resources for references

Buidhe provided this list of possible sources for use in improving the article:

• Adler, S.M. (2014) The Effect of Internment on Children and Families: Honouliuli and Manzanar. In S. Falgout and L. Nishigaya (Eds.), Breaking the Silence: Lessons of Democracy and Social Justice from the World War II Honouliuli Internment and POW Camp in Hawai ‘i, vol. 44, (178-197).

Feel free to use any or all of them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 05:08, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Cow Creek annex

The latest USNPS map of internment facilities includes a pointer to Cow Creek in Death Valley as a sort of intermediate/temporary jail short of sending people to Tule Lake. This is next to NPS employee housing and the DV Nat. Hist. Assoc.. 24.121.145.212 (talk) 23:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

100th Infantry Battalion[88] and the 442nd regimental Combat Team[89]

References in the heading and a paragraph without any inline references at all are not acceptable in a FA.

The problem was introduced by

1. REDIRECT Template:Reply to

Template:Redirect category shell with this edit, and they don't appear to be active at the moment. William Avery (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)