Talk:Killing of Paul Johnson

Decapitation Pics

I removed the link, as they are not needed at all. Kris Classic 17:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Reporting of death

Is it really fair to say that CNN reported the event? I mean, so did Yahoo!, Reuters, AP, the San Jose Mercury News.... all based on Al Arabiya, as far as I know. We probably ought to be sticking to primary sources here... --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:15, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

(My bad on that. I wanted to post an announcement ASAP, and CNN was one of the first mainstream networks to announce it. Alex Libman)

Descriptor

The name "Paul Johnson (hostage)" isn't quite fair to him. He didn't choose to be a hostage, after all. --Geoffrey

I don't believe "fairness" is an appropriate objection. Whether he chose to be a hostage or not (although I think it's patently obvious that he didnt) he certainly WAS a hostage. Therefore, it's a valid descriptive term. Now, if it's not in line with policy (note that Nick Berg is not Nick Berg (hostage), that's a valid objection, but I really don't think whether it's "fair" or not has anything to do with it. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:45, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC) P.S. I don't think, even if "fair" was a concern, that the (hostage) descriptor is unfair.

I think a descriptor like (American contractor) may be just as appropriate. The descriptor is to help disambiguate and help visitors find the article they're seeking. Jewbacca 18:48, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

I think it's fine. That's what he's famous for. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 18:57, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'm moving the article to Paul Marshall Johnson, Jr. That was his name. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 20:36, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

Photos

Is it really appropriate for Wikipedia to link to photos of the beheading? Vesta 21:26, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

No, it's not. Please remove them. Thank you.

OK, I checked the Wiki entry on Nick Berg, and the compromise policy decided on there seems to be that URLs to the media can be posted, though it should not be linked. I guess this stays up, then. :/ Vesta 21:33, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Looks like the URLs are linked again. What happened? --Lukobe 00:08, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

All due respect, I don't think "No, it's not" constitutes discussion, and certainly doesn't merit action ("Please remove them"). If anyone wants to present arguments that weren't raised during the Berg debate, please do. Otherwise we should default to the compromise position that was reached on that article. An encyclopedia should be consistent. Cribcage 00:37, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

---

The prose here has problems too -- "suggests that Johnson himself may have been a Muslim" ... Where is the attribution? Fuzheado | Talk 04:31, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Example.jpg

Please educate me.. Why do people keep putting in an example.jpg image on the page??? Jewbacca 00:08, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)

I've not really messed with uploading images to the Wiki, but maybe the documentation suggests that if you put the Image:Example tag in, it will take you to an upload form where the tag will be replaced by what you just uploaded. Or maybe people are just quirky. :) -- Vesta 02:07, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

That's simply the default or example link provided by the toolbar. Dori | Talk 01:28, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

The poor man was brutally murdered and yet people post links glorifying it.Warmon 01:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

That link didn't work so I removed.

Missing material

Obviously someone owned the villa where the remains were found. Has Saudi Arabia caught the persons responsible, and have their families been forced to offer blood money? I think this piece would be better with this additional information in it. --Jackkalpakian 23:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:PaulJohnson.jpg

File:Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:PaulJohnson.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move 7 May 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved, except for Piotr Stańczak. For most of these articles, I see consensus that the notability is more around the event of the killing, rather than the person who was killed. The move of Stańczak's article received a small amount of pushback, and while it wasn't especially vigorous pushback (the initial opposer ultimately softened to neutral), it still leads me to see no consensus for that individual article, given the low overall participation in this discussion. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:25, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

---

Paul Marshall Johnson Jr. → Killing of Paul JohnsonKilling of Paul Johnson – This is something I've seen with other articles regarding beheading victims of Islamist groups. Most of their articles are better suited for "Killing of" articles with the only exceptions given that nearly all of them solely focus on their deaths, lacking notabilty either before or after (such as Kayla Mueller). Similar has already been done with Nick Berg, Kenneth Bigley, and Margaret Hassan. Others would include:

• Seif Adnan Kanaan → Killing of Seif Adnan Kanaan
• Kim Sun-il → Killing of Kim Sun-il
• Shosei Koda → Killing of Shosei Koda
• Peter Kassig → Killing of Peter Kassig
• David Haines (aid worker) → Killing of David Haines
• Piotr Stańczak → Killing of Piotr Stańczak

The aforementioned three articles differ in having the phrasings "Killing of", "Kidnapping and murder of" or "Kidnapping and killing of". I generally lean towards the former for simplicity, but wouldn't mind either of the other two. The ones killed in Iraq and Afghanistan are already listed in the "Foreign hostages in x" articles and can probably be deleted if they're not considered noteworthy enough for their own articles in hindsight.

As for the shortening of Johnson's name, it was the common name used in reporting about his kidnapping and beheading, including the U.S. Department of State and the UN. He was called "Paul Marshall Johnson Jr." signifcantly less often than just "Paul Johnson" or "Paul Johnson Jr.". The new article title alone would be distinctive enough, with a redirect of "Paul Johnson (murder victim)" and an about notice linking to the disambiguation page. The only articles that should be left standalone with their killing in the death section are journalists i.e. Daniel Pearl, James Foley, Kenji Goto, given how they seem to fulfill general notability. Rubintyrann (talk) 14:20, 7 May 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Bensci54 (talk) 17:48, 14 May 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. ASUKITE 21:31, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Oppose Piotr Stańczak at least, he was a notable scientist. Several sources describe him explicitly as "renowned" and "well known" and "influential". That it wasn't in the article isn't a sign that the sourcing isn't there. Even if he's more notable for being murdered, being also notable for something else means we should write it as a biography. Not sure how I feel about the other ones, without further research they could be similar cases, especially the missionaries. The ones who were only citizens probably not but I would at least check. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:31, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

Is the oppose solely in regards to Stańczak or generally to the "killing of" name changes? I'm mostly just suggesting it for general WP:BIO1E and since the whole change from bio to event focus was already done on the more known articles on the topic.

In the case of Stańczak, I was a bit on the fence exactly because of his occupation, but I really couldn't find much to support notability in the field. Basically all English sources during his capture and after his death are curt in simply calling him a Polish engineer (apparently because he was described as such by his kidnappers) while Polish news only add his hometown, alma mater, and employer (an Islamabad-based branch of the mineral resource extraction Geofizyka Kraków). The appropriate language wiki tends to go more in depth when the English one lacks info, but the Polish page looked pretty much the same and also just led on with his abduction. Can you link the sources you found? I'd be in agreement then in letting the bio stay as is and would probably extend the article as well.

The missionaries, aid workers and the engineer Johnson had more or less the same problem. I don't think it would hurt to do a more thorough check on their background, but again, I just couldn't scrounge up anything substantial, besides two brief reports with Peter Kassig being interviewed. Rubintyrann (talk) 20:59, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

It was solely in the case of Stańczak, but thinking again, eh. I wouldn't support but lodge me as neutral when it comes to him. Several sources do call him significant [1] "the renowned geologist":, etc. I would wager there is Polish newspaper coverage I cannot find, but from the decade that would be in I find that Polish coverage is poorly digitized. Others there probably isn't much after a search, so support on those. PARAKANYAA (talk) 19:47, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Biography/Science and academia, WikiProject Saudi Arabia, and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 21:31, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Second relist due to lacking participation and overall consensus - as there are multiple pages involved, I am hoping this gets a bit more attention ASUKITE 21:31, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.