Talk:Iberian Peninsula

Could experts please add current info re: Iberian Peninsula as an origin for ancient Irish, etc.?

Should some mention be made here about research and DNA connections currently being made/discovered about the ancient people of Ireland (and elsewhere) as migrating from/connected to the Iberian Peninsula? For example: Which areas of the peninsula have been involved in these connective "finds"? Which areas elsewhere have been shown to have a genetic connection (on the outflow side). Maybe a separate "Iberian Peninsula Genetic Connections/Migration" page could be provided - supplemental to the current Wikipedia "inflow" page: "Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula." Thanks! NorseAndCelt (talk) 22:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Iberian Peninsula true extent?

The Wikipedia map on this article showing the extent of the Iberian Peninsula seems to contradict google maps. Which is right?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Iberian+Peninsula/@40.5727046,-7.4587962,5z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0xd69d53cee2b5e97:0xbffbfb7ed27eca70!8m2!3d40.4830106!4d-4.0875573!16zL20vMDN2OXc?hl=en&entry=ttu Thomas Norren (talk) 03:48, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

The Google maps area includes a good chunk of southern France for reasons that escape me. It must be a software glitch. --Jotamar (talk) 18:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

There's no french portion in Iberian Peninsula! The frontier is the Pyrenees!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.139.153.57 (talk • contribs)

There are several portions of France (mainly, but not only, the French Cerdagne) in the southern watershed of the Pyrenees.--Asqueladd (talk) 11:22, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Why is English Included among the native names?

The fact that Gibraltar is an imperial remnant of the British on the peninsula does not mean that English is one of the peninsula's native languages. It should be removed. French too. 189.62.151.21 (talk) 16:01, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Presumably because it is spoken by the population of the British overseas territory of Gibraltar. So why should it be removed? And why French too?--Asqueladd (talk) 16:29, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

why are there two etymology sections?

what's up with that Chiffonn (talk) 04:25, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, I think. --Jotamar (talk) 15:21, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Introduction

It is crystal clear that Template:Ping considers that the relation of this territory with the Eurasian landmass should not be mentioned in this article under any circunstance, (seemingly) because of different reasons. They may explain here (and making a case to persuade others) instead of imposing this editorial stance by way of brute force. It has to be said that the source already used in the introduction in order to underpin specific geographic details actually introduces that relation in page 25.--Asqueladd (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Template:Ping I don't know what you mean by "(seemingly) because of different reasons". Just state what you think that is instead of beating around the bush even though I already told you my reasons twice and this is going to be my third time explaining. Definitions describe a topic and gets to the point of the definition without adding unnecessary information. The Iberian Peninsula, simply put, is a peninsula in southwestern Europe. When people and sources describe the Iberian Peninsula, the focus is on its location in Europe, not Eurasia. We don't say "The Arabian Peninsula is a peninsula in West Asia, defining the western middle portion of Eurasia" because the Eurasia portion is unnecessary since its location in Asia is already described, and people will understand what that means. You had added the Eurasia portion on 15 June 2020 even though the article had spent many years (25 February 2002, 28 September 2010, 11 August 2015) without it. You point to the book The Birds of the Iberian Peninsula (2015) which uses Eurasia on page 25. I don't know what the authors' intentions were by wording it that way but if I had to guess it would be emphasizing its far west location in relation to the large landmass but most sources don't describe it that way. The book The Vegetation of the Iberian Peninsula (2017) states on page 4 that "Iberia is a prominent large sized peninsula in the southwestern end of Europe, reaching the westernmost and southernmost points of Europe" without mention Eurasia. The sources I provided (Britannica, Merriam-Webster, Collins Dictionary, Dictionary) all define the Iberian Peninsula as a peninsula of Europe. Dash9Z (talk) 22:21, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I have to agree with Dash9Z - his reasoning is sound and to the point. That Europe is part of Eurasian landmass is not the focus of this article and not necessary to mention in the lead. In geography section, fine. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 13:56, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

There are more sources pointing that out, although that source have proven extremely useful to provide nuances other sources could not, so I would not dismiss it. I cannot figure what's the basis for objecting the addition of the mention the extreme placing of the Iberian Peninsula in terms of its belonging to the largest continental landmass on planet Earth. It basically underpins its location on the planet. The location of Iberia (and an analogous thing could be said for the Maghreb) in the Far West of Eurasia (and Afroeurasia /the Old World) is indeed important, because of being on the far west of a large landmass is important vis-à-vis climate issues and certainly because of human history too. I don't know about Arabia, maybe the place to question about that article is Talk:Arabian Peninsula. Perhaps the centre is less fancy from a physical geographical standpoint than the extreme? I don't know. Template:Tq No it's not, but the location of the Iberian Peninsula on the planet Earth is (or should be).--Asqueladd (talk) 14:14, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

The peninsula border and the state borders do not run along the same line

"The area of ​​the peninsula is 583,254 km²" - it is rare for the area of ​​a large peninsula to be given with such precision. The areas of several countries were simply added together. But this is not true, because the conventional border between the peninsula and the rest of Europe does not coincide with the borders of the countries. What's more - the border of the peninsula in the geographic sense is constant, while in the political sense it can change. I believe that the border line should be relatively straight (on the globe it is an arc) and connecting the two shores with the shortest possible section. And such a line is located south of Soorts-Hossegor (the western end of the border) and north of Leucate (the eastern end of the border), and the border (arc) is about 371 km long.

So the map should show the true border of the peninsula, not the complicated courses of the national borders. And the correctly calculated area, which will be larger than the given... Mir.Nalezinski (talk) 18:04, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

You are probably right in the first part, but the Iberian peninsula is conventionally defined by the Pyrenees watershed, not by any shortest line between shores.--Asqueladd (talk) 18:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

The area of ​​this peninsula was incorrectly determined based on the course of state borders, not the watershed. And the border of peninsulas is most properly determined by the shortest arc connecting two water bodies. Each surveyor can establish his own concept of the border line, but the shortest is unambiguous. Mir.Nalezinski (talk) 09:11, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

Indeed, in the case of a V-shaped peninsula ending with bay arcs, there may be a problem with measurement - from the transition of the V peaks into arcs, or from the end of the arcs, or maybe intermediate values? The coastline may also be a problem with accuracy - in which phase of the tide? Mir.Nalezinski (talk) 12:22, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

I am sorry to repeat myself but the Iberian peninsula is traditionally (and par excellence) defined from a standpoint of physical geography as separated from the rest of Europe by the Pyrenees, not by the shortest line between the shores of Gulf of Biscay and the Mediterranean sea.--Asqueladd (talk) 18:13, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

But that's not true. The area of ​​the peninsula is 583.254 km2 and it consists of the areas of several countries located there, of course, after subtracting the area of ​​the Spanish islands. And this means that the area was established according to administrative boundaries, not the border of the Pyrenees. And this means that if the borders change, the area of ​​the peninsula will change, which is nonsensical. Peninsulas are cartographic and geometric concepts, so they should be calculated according to physical maps, not administrative ones. Mir.Nalezinski (talk) 20:43, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, it's true. Iberia is the region of the European landmass south of the Pyrenees (and no, its border is not a straight line nor an arc but a fractal perhaps approximated by discrete milestones). If you don't like it being named a peninsula because of a narrow understanding of the concept "geographical term" or the nature of "language" itself, whatever floats your boat, but other asking for a reference to the parametre "area" you are advancing little here. In addition your definition is not operative in any meaningful area which can provide development for the article (nature, geology, hidrology, history, politics, sociology...) as no sources in those areas deal with that construct holistically in any substantial way. If you can find a reliable authoritative third party source backing up that definition, your definition of "Iberian Peninsula" belongs at best to the realm of annotations, rather than what it looks like an attempt to hijack the scope of the article.--Asqueladd (talk) 21:24, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

How to explain that, for example, the German and Polish Wikipedias give the exact area of ​​583,254 km² (4 countries in the table), the Russian Wikipedia gives 596,740 km² and has a summation error, while the Spanish Wikipedia gives two values ​​- 583,254 km² and 596,740 km². Why two? Interestingly, the Spanish table has 5 countries and after summing it is 583,457, and they give... 585,254 (summation error).

The English Wikipedia also gives two values ​​- in the first paragraph 583,254 km², but in the table 583.544 km² (5 countries)...

And all you had to do was simply draw a line (arc) from water to water over land and give the same value in all Wikipedias... Mir.Nalezinski (talk) 08:07, 20 June 2025 (UTC)