Talk:Flight 19

Location

Has anyone noticed the part on this page where it says the site is off the coast of florida, they can't be talking about the site of the wreck because from what I hear, they have NO idea where '19 ended up

Hen and Chickens Shoals

There is something I can't understand. The map shows Hen and Chickens Shoals east of Fort Lauderdale (point B). But, at least in Google Maps, it is located some 4 of 5 miles east of Islamorada... in Florida Keys! Is it an error? Is it only an error from Wikipedia or something earlier and deeper? 84.78.242.150 (talk) 23:33, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

I reply to myself: There is a "Hen and Chicken Rocks" (less known) at the point marked in the map. That's all. 90.167.86.238 (talk) 09:41, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

I think it’s just a mistake, 223.24.167.145 (talk) 12:28, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

However the right name is "Hen and Chicken Rocks" instead of "Hen and Chickens Shoals" as in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.167.86.238 (talk) 09:50, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Military documents would be the best source for that kind of information. Perhaps [1]. - LuckyLouie (talk) 13:16, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, and since every page in Internet I've consulted commits the same mistake (it is a mistake, undoubtedly, it could be checked in Google maps) I presume it is a mistake that comes from an official (very likely military) source. And now I wonder if they just confused the names or something more? 90.167.86.238 (talk) 13:33, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

The National Archives map does show a "Hen and Chickens" east of Ft. Lauderdale roughly halfway on the planned route [2]. It is possible that names of places could have been different in the 1940s. However, we'd need a reliable source (see WP:OR and WP:CITE) specifically identifying the destination of Flight 19 as "rocks" (as seen on Mapcarta maps and [3]) and not "shoals" or otherwise differentiating the two places. - LuckyLouie (talk) 13:51, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

This [4] and this: [5] might be acceptable: Template:Tq - LuckyLouie (talk) 14:00, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

The citation to Naval Aviation News was already in there, I've added a url to a readable version, and updated the text. - LuckyLouie (talk) 14:11, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanx!!! 90.167.86.238 (talk) 14:26, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

It is possible the pilot confused "Hens and Chickens Shoals" (east F. Lauderdale) with "Hen and Chickens Rocks" (east of Islamorada)?

"and I am trying to find Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I am over land but it's broken. I am sure I'm in the Keys but I don't know how far down and I don't know how to get to Fort Lauderdale." 90.167.86.114 (talk) 21:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

It’s actually called hens and chickens shoals at least in my opinion 223.24.167.145 (talk) 12:29, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

General Motors TBM Avenger Torpedo Bomber

This is a Grumman TBM Avenger, or am I incorrect? I could not edit it. Odanny (talk) 18:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

According to the Grumman TBF Avenger article, Grumman developed and initially produced the TBF Avenger. Later, production was shifted to the Eastern Aircraft division of General Motors, with those aircraft being designated as the General Motors TBM Avenger. Indyguy (talk) 21:31, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Ship Losses (USS Cyclops) Section

How does info on the loss of the Cyclops

1. REDIRECT Template:En dash

Template:R protected 27 years before the events this article discusses and in an unknown part of the Western Atlantic

1. REDIRECT Template:En dash

Template:R protected illuminate Flight 19 in any way? I was about to delete the section under WP:BOLD, but I wanted to check here first as it does not appear to be a recent addition and I don't see a mention on this Talk. Even if it were remotely proximate in time, there is no evidence that the Cyclops was even in the general area of Flight 19's loss. Can someone provide a reason to keep this section? Cheers, Bitten Peach (talk) 13:38, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree. At best, it's WP:SYNTH. - LuckyLouie (talk) 14:04, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay. I've removed it. I've asked in the edit summary for a discussion here before restoring the info. If you are restoring the Ship Losses section, please explain why. Specifically, please explain how the info helps a reader understand Flight 19. If the connexion is merely 'this is another disappearance in the Western Atlantic,' it is already covered with links to the Bermuda Triangle legend and does not belong in the body of the article. A source is required that says something similar to (but as specific as), 'Flight 19 is directly linked to the earlier loss of the USS Cyclops because {reasons}.' Cheers, Bitten Peach (talk) 14:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Rollback

Had to rollback anonymous edit due to it breaking the Infobox code. --Funandtrvl (talk) 15:08, 5 December 2024 (UTC)