Talk:Edmund Crouchback

Untitled

Burkes peerage (http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/common/sitepages/roking04.asp) recommends 1278 as birthdate for Thomas

The correct name of the kingdom is simply the Kingdom of Sicily, Apulia was already part of the kingdom, since it included the whole of southern Italy right up to the papal states. Why is Apulia mentioned separately? Why not also mention separately Calabria, Capua, Naples and other bits of the mainland part of the kingdom? ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 05:06, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hunchback?

I've removed Category:Hunchbacks from this article. I'm not a scholar of history myself, but since the article didn't mention anything about Edmund's having a hunchback, I went looking for support on Google. Apparently the story of Edmund's deformity was current in the 16th or 17th century, and at that time the epithet "crouchback" was interpreted to mean "hunchback". However, there seems to be no preponderance of evidence one way or the other as to whether the story was told because it was true, or put about falsely because of some kind of intrigue involving John of Gaunt and line of descent.[1][2] (Personally, I like the crouch="cross" derivation, because it's more interesting.) I wish someone with more knowledge in the field would expand this article. --Quuxplusone 08:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Name

Why was he given an Anglo-Saxon name? He seems to be the first English royal or noble named Edmund since 1066.--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 22:03, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

He was named after St Edmund the Martyr, the patron saint of England at the time. 2A00:23C6:4182:9500:4DAD:6534:8A7B:1314 (talk) 21:46, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

His father, Henry III, had an enthusiasm for Edward the Confessor and named his first son Edward. Hence Edward the First. I suppose he then went on to name the second son Edmund to keep him companyDean1954 (talk) 19:49, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:08, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Doing a brief Google search, there's reference to it here but I couldn't find anything concrete (though I honestly wouldn't know where to start looking). However it seems more than likely this is the case. It is known that Henry venerated the English saints and that his eldest son Edward was named after the Confessor, so it makes sense that the unusually 'English' name of his second son can be explained by him naming him after Edmund the Martyr, who was a patron saint of England during this period. 2A00:23C6:4182:9500:4987:D325:88F9:445E (talk) 15:06, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Bishop of Romania

I will have to check further when I get a chance, but if I remember correctly, the "Bishop of Romania" should be Gregory of Romagna, who wasn't a bishop or a cardinal, but was a papal diplomat in the 1240s and 1250s. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:33, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Arms

According to James Parker (see A Glossary of Terms Used in Heraldry), Edmund (or 'Edmond') Crouchback had an unusual variant of the "three lions" arms in which the three lions shared a head, called "tricorporated". It would be interesting if a historical source (as opposed to a modern heraldic one) could attest to this. Hairy Dude (talk) 05:16, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Renovation of Edmund Crouchback article completed

Tagging users of the English royalty project: @Robertus Pius, @EmilySarah99, @Unlimitedlead, @DDMS123

Hello! I'm not familiar with editing historical articles so this was my first one, in which the article only had a mediocre-sourced Life section and a Family section. I am very interested in Edmund Crouchback, in which I thought it was pretty cool to see a prince who would become King but couldn't, became widowed and married a widowed queen, fulfilled all the prerequisites of an ideal knight, and lived in a time where England and France were close through familial ties. I thought such traits should warrant a better article for Edmund so I decided to invest my time in improving the article the past week.

I am tagging you guys for advice and copy-edits to assist the article. Right now, I have some stuff that I wanted to add into the article later, such as minor details of Edmund's life and Edmund's harshness against the Earl of Derby. If everything goes well, do you think this article can be nominated for Good Article?

祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 18:56, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

@Sinoam - Yes, if all goes well, it could eventually be nominated to be a good article. We just need to make sure that all of the references are reliable and that it is very well-written.

Here are the links to the criteria for different article classes including good article class:

- Article Classes

- Good Article Criteria

DDMS123 (talk) 19:05, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @DDMS123:

I'm familiar with the criteria, as I have previously made three Wikipedia articles Good Articles. However, this is my first article in regards to English royalty, so I am asking of users who are more experienced than I am to see if the Edmund Crouchback article right now holds up.

祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 19:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Sinoam,

Yes, I think the article holds up right now. DDMS123 (talk) 19:28, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you @DDMS123!

I hope the read was informative and enjoyable.

祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 19:30, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

If this is your first time nominating an article about English royalty, I suggest consulting the ODNB. Unlimitedlead (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Unlimitedlead,

I presume the ODNB as the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography? What do you mean by consulting the dictionary. I'll also let you know that I am not a British citizen, so I do not have access to the Dictionary.

祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 20:42, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi! I've had a quick read and think a few improvements could be made. Mainly the lead sections is typically no longer than a paragraph, much of that can be cut down since it is talked about later in the article. Other than cleaning up some of the writing and style, I don't see any other issues. EmilySarah99 (talk) 02:06, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @EmilySarah99,

I would disagree with that the lead section is typically no longer than a paragraph because we see the lead of many featured articles, especially Edmund's father King Henry III of England and Edmund's brother Edward I of England, their leads are around 3-4 major paragraphs. The lead summarizes what is going to be talked about later in the article. However, I will try to do some clean-up in the writing and style.

祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 03:15, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Reference

Can someone please check reference 114 which is to Carpenter (2003). I suspect that this should be 2004 which is the only Carpenter citation given. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, there are two books by Carpenter that have the same title but different publisher and publishing year.

- Published by Oxford in 2003: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Struggle_for_Mastery/FLbdk_L9TYQC?hl=en&gbpv=0

- Published by Penguin in 2004: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Penguin_History_of_Britain_The_Strug/WMiL1KUkkzwC?hl=en&gbpv=0

I am not too sure if they are not the same books, because I copy and pasted the citations and the contents they cited from the Edward I of England article (which uses the 2004 version) and the Conquest of Wales by Edward I (which uses the 2003 version).

祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 14:07, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I also added the 2003 citation in the bibliography, but feel free to merge both of them if it is redudant. - 祝好，Sinoam^(聊天) 14:13, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't have either which is why I couldn't clear the error. They're probably the same, Penguin editions are paperback, perhaps the 2003 was the hardback version? In any case, the page numbers need checking between different editions. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:47, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

GOCE copy edit

Some feedback:

• Pay attention to verbs with objects ("managed to break") that can be changed to verbs without ("broke").
• Change Template:Tl to Template:Tl?
• Left some cleanup tags throughout.

voorts (talk/contributions) 20:40, 16 September 2023 (UTC)