Talk:Dolton, Illinois

History

Maybe someone could add the history to this stub-article. Some information are given on the homepage of Dolton, but I guess more information is needed. --Sebbe xy (talk) 18:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/6YSasqtfX?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.census.gov%2Fprod%2Fwww%2Fdecennial.html to http://www.census.gov/prod/www/decennial.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
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Allegations of harassment and misspending

I added information pertaining to the ongoing allegations of harassment going on in the city, and it was reverted by Template:Yo with an explanation of Template:!tq. Actually, the articles were published several days ago, but that is neither here nor there.

Mention of the WGN TV investigation is warranted in the article because it actually is a meta-story, and are the results of an investigation into prior allegations; instances which received coverage from other news outlets previously. The WGN News article positions itself that way: Template:!tq Prior reporting makes it clear this is not just the news of the day, on-going coverage has been demonstrated. and due weight requires mention at this point. Marcus Markup (talk) 01:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC) Template:Reflist-talk

This is a criticism by one local news outlet. Find some additional sources to support that this really is a story with enduring notability, per WP:NOTNEWS. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:47, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

I supplied references from two other news outlets (above). A very quick Google makes it clear that the harassment issue has been covered multiple times over the past year by those and other reliable sources. This is not "news"... this is reporting on a long-standing and on-going situation in Dolton, as the WGN source put it: Template:!tq

I am of the opinion that encyclopedia article should be enough to bring one reasonably up-to-speed on an issue... enough so that so that one could consider oneself "briefed" about an issue, just by reading the encyclopedia article. This is not a universal opinion, obviously, as we see here. In this case, someone wanting to get up to speed and be "briefed" on Dolton would be left woefully uneducated about high-level and very public goings on in with its government, from reading our article. Our article is, in its current state, a failure in that mission, considering the level of coverage this humble town of about 20K residents has received. Such editorial practices literally require the diligent reader to go elsewhere in order to be assured of being adequately educated. It is continual glaring holes in articles like this which require our readers to not trust Wikipedia to provide a proper and complete high-level briefing on a subject. Marcus Markup (talk) 23:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Lawsuits happen all the time, and their contents are merely allegations. However, your many reliable sources seem to indicate dysfunction in the local government. I'll self-revert. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:29, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Whether or not there is actually dysfunction in Dolton's government is irrelevant for our tasks as editors. This is purely a due weight issue. Thanks, though. Marcus Markup (talk) 13:29, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

This actually raises competency questions. Marcus Markup (talk) 14:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Template:Ping Which ones? Please be specific. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:32, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

That you admit to judging sources not on their reliability or their weight, but on whether you agree with them or not. As I said, Template:Tq Marcus Markup (talk) 20:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Template:Ping Again, which specific competence issue are you referring to, per WP:CIR? --Magnolia677 (talk) 21:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

I did not cite the WP:CIR essay. I'm moving on. If you want to haul me in to ANI for sullying your reputation, be my guest. Also, you can stop pinging me with every reply... I am watching the page. Marcus Markup (talk) 21:38, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

add Pope Leo XIV to the lede?

Hi, @Magnolia677! While I understand why my edit was reverted, I would argue that based on precedent it is appropriate to add something mentioning Pope Leo XIV as the articles hometown/neighborhood of the last five popes, Pope Francis, Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II, Pope John Paul I, and Pope John XXIII all mention their respective popes in their lead section. I don't know whether there is some sort of precedent with US towns, but I think the lead should mention the pope. FossilDS (talk) 00:30, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

The pope isn't part of the historical context of this city. This article is about Dolton, not the famous people who live there. Magnolia677 (talk) 12:58, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

Template:Tq He is now. Your continual removal of valid content from this article is out-of-hand. Marcus Markup (talk) 13:00, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

Already exist in "Notable people" section, please don't duplicate in "intro" section. Just because a famous person lived in a community doesn't automatically mean they should be placed in the intro section of a city article, because this article is primarily about the city. If a person started a community, or had major impact on the community when they lived in the city, or the community was named after a person, then they might deserve to be in the intro, which excludes the pope as a kid. For example, Milton S. Hershey founded Hershey, Pennsylvania. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 05:23, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

The "intro" section is by requirement a duplication of content already in the body of the article, see MOS:LEAD where it says "In Wikipedia, the lead section is an introduction to an article and a summary of its most important contents." Marcus Markup (talk) 09:15, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

I went ahead and restored it because your objection that it was "duplicate information" is invalid. Marcus Markup (talk) 09:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Marcus Markup, you need to reach a consensus that the Pope's childhood home is in fact the article's "most important" content. Donald Trump is pretty important too, but not important enough to add to the lead at Queens. Generally, "famous people" remain in the "notable people" section, because the history of a community is typically not created by the famous people who lived there. I suggest you try dispute resolution, rather that edit war with multiple editors. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:16, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

I am not "edit warring" as anyone who can look at the edits can observe. I suggest you get a grip. Marcus Markup (talk) 14:43, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Queens has a population of about 2-1/2 million, and is basically a city. Dolton has a population of about 20K, and is a village. From perusing the articles of villages and towns were famous people grew up, it seems to be the rule rather than the exception that mention of them goes in the lead. I could of course cherry pick examples, but I won't insult anyone's intelligence by playing that game. Marcus Markup (talk) 15:11, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

No opinion, but see WP:BRD. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 14:37, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

@Sbmeirow please stop editing comments that have been replied to. Marcus Markup (talk) 19:06, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

@Smbeirow, as FossilDS pointed out above, the articles for the birthplaces of the last five popes have mention of them in the lead. Would you support removing those mentions? Because I wouldn't... when there is precedent, I'll tend to follow it unless have a fairly good reason. Marcus Markup (talk) 19:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

WP:OSE, but it is always possible that the selection of popes affected those places. There hasn't really been time for the selection of the pope to affect Dolton, unless sources suggest the village has changed significantly in the past couple of weeks. CMD (talk) 19:22, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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