Talk:Dissident

missing link

please someone who knows how to do it add the link to the french version Bohan (talk) 20:27, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

'Scientific dissident" section

I doubt this section belongs here. This is a fringe term. google gives less than 500 hits. - üser:Altenmann >t 14:29, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The section discusses some scientists who disagreed with prevailing theories, and whose alternative views were subsequently shown to have validity. Isn't this just part of the process by which scientific progress is made? Isambard Kingdom (talk) 14:53, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't see how this is related to the article subject. Disagreements with mainstream are everywhere, in politics, culture, science. The terms "dissident" today has a specific political meaning, and it is the subject of the article. - üser:Altenmann >t 14:56, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I'd just remove it outright. A section about scientific dissent based upon high-quality sources from the perspective of the history and philosophy of science might be an encyclopedic replacement, as long as it includes well-sourced material on how the phrase is used as propaganda to undermine science- and evidence-based decision making. --Ronz (talk) 15:41, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I just deleted the entire section, because it's frankly a bunch of bull. Questioning the established status quo is a part of the scientific process, ergo none of these people were "dissidents", they were just scientists. The only purpose this section serves is to add credence to the term.142.105.159.60 (talk) 15:59, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Dear Ronz, Not all scientists try to make large changes in science, the ones that do have been historically treated as dissidents. (as the references I added confirm). One of Michael Faraday's biographers notes that Michael Faraday was both a religious dissenter and a scientific dissenter (against action at a distance) and that the two might not be unrelated. I hope that you put the section on scientific dissenters back.

BinaryPhoton (talk) 16:11, 6 July 2016 (UTC)BinaryPhoton

Dear Ronz,

On my website is a personal letter from Erwin Chargaff to me (September 20, 1995) that says "I do not have to tell you that the so-called "scientific community" is one of the most narrowminded lobbies one can imagine." see http://labs.plantbio.cornell.edu/wayne/ at the bottom of the page. Dissidents are truly needed and needed to be recognized in science. BinaryPhoton (talk) 16:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)BinaryPhoton Hello. Dissidents are part of the political enterprise, the religious enterprise and the scientific enterprise. And they play an important part in all of these processes...sometimes they even change the status quo for the better, sometimes they just present a new and diverse view that others are free to take or leave. I think that the section on scientific dissidents should stay. By the way, I make no profit from my books (the royalties from which go directly to Habitat for Humanity and The Profiles in Courage Award given by the Kennedy Library). I cited them because they are good sources of primary references and analyses of the role dissident scientists play in the scientific enterprise as well as the difficulties they faced in making their contributions. Thanks. BinaryPhoton (talk) 15:54, 6 July 2016 (UTC)BinaryPhoton

Template:Tq Says who?

Could you please respond to the comments so it doesn't appear you are ignoring them? --Ronz (talk) 15:59, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Still no response. I think the removal is warranted, though problematic while under discussion. I'll copy it for reference. --Ronz (talk) 18:00, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I believe I responded above. IS there something else I can provide for you?

Thanks BinaryPhoton (talk) 18:56, 6 July 2016 (UTC)BinaryPhoton

Many hypotheses (e.g. phlogiston, caloric) that were once accepted as proven truth by the scientific authorities and the scientific consensus were later, in the light of new or previously overlooked knowledge, shown to be limited in scope—if not wrong. Thomas Young, who questioned the dogma of those who narrowly followed Isaac Newton, is an example of a scientific dissident in the field of optics. James Croll, who questioned the dogma that the ice ages were exclusively the result of geological process, is an example of a scientific dissident in the field of geology. Hermann Staudinger, who questioned the dogma that high molecular mass polymers were just artifacts due to the aggregation of small molecules into colloids, is an example of a scientific dissident in chemistry. James B. Sumner, who questioned the dogma that proteins only performed a structural function and could not be enzymes, is an example of a scientific dissident in biochemistry. Barbara McClintock, who questioned the dogma that the genome was stable, is an example of a dissident scientist in biology and genetics. She described the response to her work, for which she later earned the Nobel Prize, as "puzzlement, and, in some instances, hostility." Peter D. Mitchell, who questioned the dogma that ATP was formed by substrate-level phosphorylation, proposed the chemiosmotic mechanism of ATP synthesis and is an example of a scientific dissident in the field of bioenergetics. After winning the Nobel Prize for his work, Mitchell repeated the observation first made my Max Planck, "a new scientific idea does not triumph by convincing its opponents, but rather because its opponents eventually die." Boris Ephrussi and Ruth Sager, who questioned the dogma that heredity could be accounted for exclusively by nuclear genes, are further examples of scientific dissidents in the fields of biology and genetics. Ephrussi famously said, "we cannot determine the truth of a hypothesis by counting the number of people who believe it".
From an historical perspective, the scientific dissidents have been an important part of the scientific enterprise.

References

Dissidents and New Technologies

Hello,

As a part of my school requirement, I am going to make some edits to this article. I am planning to add a paragraph about modern dissidents and their usage of technologies such as Darknet. Please let me know if you have any concerns/suggestions. Thanks Anastasia192 (talk) 23:37, 8 November 2016 (UTC)Anastasia192Anastasia192 (talk) 23:37, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Please use proper citation formatting, rather than cite to your sandbox. Thank you. Isambard Kingdom (talk) 15:24, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

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"Western Democracy" Dissidents

Whats abbout Dissidents in the West? For example victims of the anti-communist campaigns in the US. --188.152.144.96 (talk) 18:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

American Dissidents

Would whistleblowers in the United States who were arrested under the Espionage Act qualify for the article. Many were arrested or had to flee the country. Not exactly on par with some of the fates of the people in this article, but maybe worth mentioning? DukeOfGrammar (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

"Malcontent provider" listed at Redirects for discussion

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