Talk:Dedovshchina

Old talk

Hi, here is a my proposal for expansion, this is for some Russian who is much older than me. When exactly this phenomenon started to surface, I mean became known enough to turn off prospective soldiers from army(by the time I started to watch anything besides cartoons it was all around). Then the article can mention the resulting problems with drafting process and current press coverage. It all leads to the recent trends in drafting legislation.Gnomz007 8 July 2005 04:55 (UTC)

This thing will not grow in many years, the Internet is full of scandalous stories of how one conscript was hazed, which can not be used as a solid source, no serious documenting. No nothing.–Gnomz⁰⁰⁷(?)

Whoops wrong Internet [1] [2] [3] –Gnomz⁰⁰⁷(?) 20:10, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

State Department says it is in Belarus too [4]–Gnomz⁰⁰⁷(?) 22:27, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Country Reports on Human Rights Practices : Russia - 2004 –Gnomz⁰⁰⁷(?) 22:30, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

There's a similar phenomenon in Poland as well, though not as widely found (fortunately), called fala (the wave). I wonder whether this article should be expanded and internationalized, or rather the Polish fala merits its own article. Anyone? //Halibutt 08:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Organized?

"While oppression by older conscripts has probably always taken place in the army, after that date it become organized and with its own rules and ranks."

I think you should also tell us who "organized" it ;-)

Pronunciation

Can we add something in on pronunciation, as per this? 86.136.92.2 11:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Is there any movie portraying dedovshchina?

Is there any movie, like a Russian equivalent of "Full Metal Jacket", in which non-Russians can see what dedovshchina is like?

Perhaps you better need some non-fiction movies ("journalist investigations"). As of fiction, you can find episodical speckles of it in such movies as DMB, Stormgates, Nineth Company.... From what I can guess, movie concentrated on dedovschina wouldn't bring its creators much money. ellol 14:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Green tickY There's a section on this already. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.72.233.80 (talk • contribs)

Introduction

Introduction to this article currently contains only 75 (seventy-five) words in the same first sentence. There's two possible explanations of this phenomenon:

• the article is mostly edited by retards and drug users
• some people want the article on such a painful and important topic to be UNREADABLE

Rewriting needed ASAP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.72.233.80 (talk • contribs)

In other countries?

In the Turkish Military and in the amred forces of francophone countries, especially in French-speaking Sub-Saharan African countries and Haiti there are similar rituals.--Gregor Straßler (talk) 14:35, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I don’t know about others. But no such thing in Turkish Military 176.89.247.102 (talk) 21:11, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Claim regarding occurrence / virulence

formerly to the Soviet Armed Forces and today to the Russian armed forces, Internal Troops, and (to a much lesser extent) FSB Border Guards - are there any particular statistics confirming that judgement ? --129.187.244.28 (talk) 06:12, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Motivation/philosophy

Are there any links the article could provide to sources explaining the reason for this on-going practice? You would expect it to be based upon some sort of research indicating bullying in this context toughens recruits up or creates better soldiers. When someone targets those with less power, that is cowardice - which is hardly a value you would expect the Russian armed forces to value. Bullying behaviour is also indicative of emotional and moral weakness - again hardly something the Russian military should indulge. There must be some recognition of this among the leadership. 2407:7000:844D:4F00:B1B2:6C9C:8D97:7679 (talk) 21:56, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

You seemingly don't realise that, officially, the phenomenon is either exaggerated or doesn't exist altogether. Considering the amount of information on this topic found on 'civil' social media, it's pretty obvious that the government in general, and the military officials especially, are simply covering it up. Which most likely means that there really isn't any 'philosophy' behind it all - the military in the East is simply that fucked up. 188.115.136.221 (talk) 21:10, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Anton Makarenko

It would be interesting, if not at least some of the roots of the perverse "Dedovshchina" culture can be found in the methods of Anton Makarenko's pedagogic: the single "educated" by a collective. --129.187.244.19 (talk) 10:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Sources

• http://www.compancommand.com/index/doklady_o_prestuplenijakh/0-349
• https://www.fairplanet.org/editors-pick/hazing-is-still-common-and-deadly-in-the-russian-army/ Hazing is still common and deadly.Xx236 (talk) 05:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
• https://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/russia1004/5.htm ScrumptiousFood (talk) 16:06, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Translated a lot of sections from ukrainian

188.163.104.38 (talk) 16:53, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

The link does not match the article

"Incidents of hazing in the army during 2019 have increased. 51,000 human rights violations and 1,521 sexual assault cases" - The referenced document does not contain these figures at all. 67.220.87.4 (talk) 10:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Sources

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2753/PPC1075-8216610203

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13518046.2022.2156080

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41035634

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13518040500356948

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24384344

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/13518049208430052

https://journals.openedition.org/pipss/136

https://journals.openedition.org/pipss/243

https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/427/article/825050/summary

https://www.ceeol.com/search/article-detail?id=787474

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA90985899&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=07978235&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ed5d1634b&aty=open-web-entry

Dedovshchina in the Post-Soviet Military: Hazing of Russian Army Conscripts in a Comparative Perspective (book) Grumpylawnchair [ALT] (talk) 14:23, 24 February 2025 (UTC)