Talk:Brown University

Expansion of Activism Section

The activism section should be expanded to include recent political activism relating to the Israel-Hamas conflict. Three significant events in this area that can be included are the shooting of a Palestinian student, the pro-divestment encampment in April 2024, and the Brown Corporation's vote against divestment in October 2024. All three of these events have been detailed heavily in the Brown Daily Herald. Vinidapoo (talk) 14:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

William Ellery Andem

Hi Team, I am a History student and new to Wikipedia. I was updating a finding from Archives of the Providence, RI library (very old bits and pieces). I am sorry if my English is bad as I am originally from Mexico as a international student at Brown. Please help correct my mistakes in appending the new findings of the below information that I found from Archives.

William Ellery Andem (died 1764), a very close friend of Samuel Ward gave his estate which he built from the spice trade from Machilipatnam, India to the foundation of Rhode Island College, now Brown University. The street (Andem St) where he lived is named in his honor by Samuel Ward in Providence, Rhode Island."

How do I add this new finding from my research at archives to Wikipedia, please help as I am new to editing Wikipedia. Thank you in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.171.112.188 (talk) 17:55, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I can help. You have to "sign" your messages in the talk section. What is your name? Second question: What are your sources for the info about Andem? --Melchior2006 (talk) 18:50, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Your name is not required. It might be helpful for you to WP:REGISTER, though. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

ADL Ranking

The ADL ranking is an attributed statement of opinion, not a statement of fact. All rankings are biased in some way and factor in different things. Attributing an opinion does not fall under the same guidelines as a statement of fact. "Most entrepreneurial university" from Forbes is also a statement of opinion. The sentence "The university received a C on the 2025 "Campus Antisemitism Report Card" of the Anti-Defamation League. is just conveying the opinion of that group, not stating it as fact. newsjunkie (talk) 03:43, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

The RfC held about 9 months ago had a lot of participation from editors and is among the largest RfCs ever held in Wikipedia. That RfC close included the statement "The ADL can roughly be taken as reliable on the topic of antisemitism when Israel and Zionism are not concerned." That necessarily implies that the ADL is not considered reliable on the topic when Israel and Zionism are concerned (which is how the the RfC close is summarized) and that is the case here. Thus the source is not reliable by our current standards and our current understanding of broad consensus among Wikipedia editors regardless of whether any particular editor believes a particular statement from the ADL is a statement of fact or opinion. ElKevbo (talk) 04:09, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

The discussion summary Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 439#RFC: The Anti-Defamation League noted though that "Many statements that the ADL makes are inherently opinion, and are thus subject to different rules as to when and how they should be cited." In my understanding that consensus is about a reliable source on facts, rather than a clearly attributed statement of opinion, which is what rankings are. newsjunkie (talk) 04:13, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

The entire relevant part to me reads "What matters is the degree to which a source can be relied upon for statements of fact. Statements of opinion are another matter, which complicates this RfC: Many statements that the ADL makes are inherently opinion, and are thus subject to different rules as to when and how they should be cited." newsjunkie (talk) 04:16, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I'd be perfectly fine with characterizing it in some way as an advocacy group if that seems necessary, if that makes for better attribution. newsjunkie (talk) 04:22, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I would also say that this counts as a "factual statement about the opinion" as per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Bias in sources newsjunkie (talk) 04:31, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

For Brandeis, the ranking was also covered last year by the student newspaper: https://www.thejustice.org/article/2024/04/brandeis-anti-defamation-league-report-card-grade-brandeis newsjunkie (talk) 04:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

And Brown was also covered last year by local media (the ranking has changed a bit this year): https://www.golocalprov.com/news/new-brown-gets-a-d-from-anti-defamation-league-for-anti-semitism-on-campus newsjunkie (talk) 04:40, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Coverage for this year that includes Brandeis: https://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-report-card-finds-campuses-fixing-responses-to-antisemitism/ newsjunkie (talk) 04:52, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

And one that mentions Brown from this year: https://www.algemeiner.com/2025/03/03/ivy-league-schools-score-mediocre-grades-new-adl-campus-report-card/ newsjunkie (talk) 04:56, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

And here is reporting on Columbia's ranking for this year:https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/03/us/columbia-university-federal-contracts-threatened/index.html newsjunkie (talk) 06:09, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I've dropped a note at WT:UNI asking for other editors to please weigh in so we can see if there is a broader consensus among a larger group of editors. ElKevbo (talk) 13:20, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Additional source from CNN [1]. I would suggest that 1) the ADL's grade is taken seriously enough by media organizations that an attributed statement might be appropriate in certain circumstances, but 2) without some broader context or reason for inclusion, it is likely WP:UNDUE. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 17:09, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

According to Hillel, Brown is one of the top 60 schools in terms of Jewish population (24 percent undergrad)https://www.hillel.org/college/brown-university/. And I added additional sources including from the Providence outlet last year. And there is the context of it being one of the schools currently facing enforcement action: https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2025/03/education-dept-warns-brown-may-face-enforcement-actions-amid-antisemitism-concerns newsjunkie (talk) 09:11, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

I think an issue here is that rankings present as statements of fact based on research and analysis by a certain group, not as simply opinion. They occupy a middle ground between actual fact and clear opinion. Normally we only include rankings from organizations that are considered generally reliable sources, so this is not a major issue, but it becomes a problem here in the light of the recent RfC on ADL's reliability.

To compare this to the Forbes 'most entrepreneurial' ranking – that ranking is based on the fraction of alumni identifying as founders or business owners. The interpretation of this ratio as 'most entrepreneurial' is opinion, but the actual ratio is fact. If the underlying facts were not reliable, the ranking would not be reliable and would probably not be included.

With that in mind, simple inclusion as a ranking is unlikely to be appropriate for the ADL ranking as it is based on facts that ADL is not considered reliable for, per the recent RfC. However, it could potentially be included in a manner that make it clear that it is opinion. This would require that it is not WP:UNDUE, i.e. that there is discussion if it in sources (probably news media) independent of the university and ADL demonstrating that the ranking is material to the university's reputation. Robminchin (talk) 17:19, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I concur with Newsjunkie and others that rankings of this sort are opinions, and can be included so long as that fact is made clear. However, I also concur with Russ Woodroofe that this particular ranking is likely undue for articles like Brown. I'd be more open to inclusion at Brandeis, where the high portion of Jewish students means that the ranking's primary intended is larger, something reflected in the RS coverage. Sdkb ^talk 17:53, 7 March 2025 (UTC)