Talk:Birbhum district

Comments

• We need to find a good copyright-free map.
• We need to put information on
  • Demography (eg distribution of population of different religions),
  • Economy,
  • Transport,
  • Education,
  • Sports
• Reformatting is required for the page
• Some good photograph (eg that of Khowai or baich khela etc)

Dr.saptarshi 20:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I have an interest in the region and can provide some assistance. I have already done some cleaning up. Maybe, I will do so again. However, I do not have any photgraphs.

Please do not put in unnecessary links. It makes the reading jarring. P.K.Niyogi 15:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I have done another round of work on this and replaced the clean up tag with a stub tag. It requires further attention. I am still working on Asansol and Durgapur and want to work on Bardhaman district, as there is hardly any material on it. Bardhaman will consume much of my time. May be, I will return later to Birbhum, if no one else does anything significant, in the meantime. P.K.Niyogi 07:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

By "ever unsettled" as an adjective to Santhals I means both migratory as well as fighting behavior.. They are a component of the "Bir" behavior of this land. They come in from bihar as labourers, then get exploited and dont realize.. and suddenly when this realization dawns upon them, they explode and create furor.. But they are simple people easy to diatract. Just one bag of toddi or one bucketful of puffed rice chills their brain and cools their tummy. They need more education and basic amenities. :)-Dr.saptarshi 13:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Can any of you please explore this site and curette some encyclopedic info? http://www.wbcensus.gov.in/DataTables/01/FrameTable2_4.htm Please click on the presentation at the top menu for some very interesting stuff. Dr.saptarshi 14:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Waist vs Neck

Chandan, to me it looks more like waist. The northern districts like Darjeeling for the head, Dinajpur and Malda the bosom and Birbhum and Murshidabad the waist.--ManasShaikh (talk) 17:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

The wording is "south of the narrow neck of of the state". Uttar Dinajpur is tradtionally referred to as the narrow neck. I think that the concept can be dropped. - Chandan Guha (talk) 22:20, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

It is dropped - Chandan Guha (talk) 00:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

OK. Thanks. :) --ManasShaikh (talk) 18:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Query re: place names

I have an 1842 source here that says Template:Quote

The nearest match for "Bheerbhoome" is this article, although I can find no match for "Pachete". Can anyone place this area? Are there any old maps that might assist? It relates to a new article that I am fettling up, Suetonius Grant Heatly. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 10:48, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The place/area could be in the Asansol region, which has Ajay River to the north and Damodar River to the south. The area was once ruled by the Rajas of Panchkote (Panchet). - Chandan Guha (talk) 11:17, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, that makes sense because of the coal mining aspect, but I couldn't find Pachete or Bheerbhoome there either. What with transliteration issues + old-fashioned Brit spelling, getting a fix on places can be a real pain. - Sitush (talk) 11:24, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Meant to say, Panchkote --> Panchet --> Pachete: it could be. Does it work out phonetically? - Sitush (talk) 11:26, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Please see Rennel's map around 1764-66, which shows "Pachait" in what is now the Asansol Region. It also shows "Soorie". - Chandan Guha (talk) 11:48, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Genius. I can see another problematic name on there, Palamow. This does the trick for me. Thanks very much for your help. - Sitush (talk) 11:53, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The map also shows "Beerboin", just around where Birbhum district presently is. - Chandan Guha (talk) 11:59, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

It shows Pachete by that name, just above the capital letter A of "Pachait Burd". I've found a description that refers to "the great hill of Pachete, from which innumerable dykes issue". Whether that means the hill is called Pachete or there is a hill at a place called Pachete is moot. I am wondering whether it would be possible for me to sort of highlight the various names relevant to my on this map & upload it under another file name, or whether that would just cause other problems. I'm not very good with image work. I had hoped to link to articles but that now looks unlikely. - Sitush (talk) 14:59, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

"Pachait" is both a place (see small letters) and an area. "Burd" is shortened version of Burdwan. "Pachait" obviously refers to Panchakot kingdom, which was in decline in Rennel's time. There is a hill named Panchet Hill on the shores of Damodar River. It was earlier called Panchakot Hill. Panchet Dam has been named after the hill. There is another place Garh Panchkot linked with this name. - Chandan Guha (talk) 15:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Gandhi-Tagore.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Including Bengali script in the lead

I believe that this states clearly, without any ambiguity, "The body of each article, preferably in its first paragraph, should list all frequently used names by which its subject is widely known. When the native name is written in a non-Latin script, this representation should be included along with a Latin alphabet transliteration. For example, the Beijing article should mention that the city is also known as Peking, and that both names derive from the Chinese name 北京." Keeping this in view, native name in the native script should have been included in the article. Shovon (talk) 04:41, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

This article is part of WP:WikiProject India. The project have decided that Indian articles should not include indic script in the lead. See WP:INDICSCRIPT. noq (talk) 19:04, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry noq, the closing admin's observation hardly comes across as a consensus to me. Its written, "There is ultimately no consensus about which language to use, but I see a fair bit of support in regards to IPA and pronunciation and would think this would help normal readers, so I am going to say that 'Using IPA to clarify pronunciation' is the consensus of this discussion, all other sections do not meet a level of consensus needed to pass.'" I don't see the justification at all! Shovon (talk) 05:14, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I have mentioned your concerns on the project talk page to see what participants of that project think. noq (talk) 07:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

The consensus was there and has been widely applied. However, various discussions at WT:INB have indicated that appropriate scripts would be ok for geographic articles.. "Appropriate" means scripts that are the primary official language for the area, as determined by reference to sources. I don't like this exception but it does seem to have support. - Sitush (talk) 08:08, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm. So it means that -

a) For geographic articles, script of the primary official language of the area can be added.

b) For biographical articles, only IPA and pronunciation should be added.

So, I am re-inserting the Bengali script in this article then. I hope it is alright. Shovon (talk) 10:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110719040904/http://web.cmc.net.in/wbcensus/DataTables/02/Table4_8.htm to http://web.cmc.net.in/wbcensus/DataTables/02/Table4_8.htm

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Cuisine of Birbhum

I am so thrilled to see that this article which I had started 10 years back has become a good article. Hats off to all the people whose focussed team work made this achievement. Would it be possible for any of the locally available contributors to get some information on the unique foods, cuisines of this area? Eg I remember that there were some sort of crispies like "Hurum" and "shyao bhaja" etc, and there were murabba made of asparagus roots that I had seen in Suri which was locally called "shatamooli'r morobba".. which I think are unique delicacies worth documenting and presenving. But of course for the text content we will need some 3rd party references as we cannot put original research here. But some original pictures can be put in --Dr.saptarshi (talk) 10:30, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110101090833/http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/apportionment-pop-text.php to http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/apportionment-pop-text.php
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Revision to the 'Notable People' section

I noticed that the concerned section included a lot of people who were not particularly notable, so I decided it would be sensible to remove them. I also reordered the list based on relative importance since that would provided a better overview of the notable people from the district. Murkut23 (talk) 18:23, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Template:Reply to To address your concern, please have a read on Wikipedia:Notability. All articles that you have removed actually meet the Notability standards of Wikipedia. 'Importance' is subjective, and Wikipedia is not a place of subjectivity, so your edits will have to be reverted once again. Please avoid asserting your bias as it will constitute an edit war and escalate the issue unnecessarily. Jaunpurzada (talk) 12:26, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

I have reviewed your message. Stating that the removed articles meet the WP:NOTABILITY is irrelevant as it does not govern list content. Under the section "Notability guidelines do not apply to content within articles or lists," it specifies that the controlling policies are WP:UNDUE, WP:BALANCE, and other content policies like WP:SUMMARY. Your additions seem to violate all three.

• WP:UNDUE & WP:SUMMARY: This list is a high-level summary of the district's most significant figures. It is not an indiscriminate directory. The mass inclusion of primarily local politicians and other marginally notable people gives them undue weight, creating a false equivalence with figures of far greater stature.
• WP:NPOV: The Neutral Point of View requires balance. Skewing the list heavily toward one field (local politics) creates a non-neutral, unbalanced representation of the notable people from this district.

Also, please have a look at WP:BIO: it specifically states that "...the entries must have the same importance to the subject as would be required for the entry to be included in the text of the article..."

This is a dispositive test of inclusion into the list. For figures like Tagore (Noble laureate), Amartya Sen (Noble laureate), or Pranab Mukherjee (President of India), the answer is yes. Their connection to the district is integral to its story and of high encyclopedic importance. For the recently added individuals—primarily local politicians—the answer is no. They would not be mentioned in the main text of an article about the district itself.

Therefore, their inclusion fails the explicit test set by WP:BIO. This guideline is the mechanism by which broader policies like WP:RSUW, WP:SUMMARY, and WP:NPOV are enforced in this context. The pattern of additions, focusing heavily on one demographic, created an unbalanced list that violated NPOV, and the low caliber of the additions violated the principles of due weight and summary style.

If you are so inclined, you may link to a separate article in the concerned section listing down all notable peopled linked to the district.

If this dispute still persists, I will be compelled to open a RfC. Murkut23 (talk) 19:40, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

RfC on Inclusion Criteria for Notable People List

User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil Template:Rfc This RfC seeks to establish clear inclusion criteria for the "Notable People" list, following a dispute over recent large-scale additions of individuals with primarily local careers. Murkut23 (talk) 18:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

A content dispute has arisen over large-scale additions to this section. Historically, the list has featured individuals of national or international prominence, such as Nobel laureates Rabindranath Tagore and Amartya Sen, and President of India Pranab Mukherjee. Recently, a significant number of individuals whose careers are primarily in local politics have been added. This raises the question of the appropriate standard for inclusion.

The dispute centers on the application of core content policies. The principle of WP:DUE requires that we avoid giving undue weight to minor aspects of a subject, while WP:SUMMARY establishes that this section should serve as a high-level summary, not an indiscriminate directory. Furthermore, a non-neutral balance of entries creates concerns under the WP:NPOV policy.

The WP:BIO guideline provides a dispositive test for this situation, stating that entries in a list within an article must have "the same importance to the subject as would be required for the entry to be included in the text of the article itself."

There are two main viewpoints in this dispute. The first is that any individual from the district with a Wikipedia article is eligible for inclusion.

The second viewpoint, based on the policies cited above, is that inclusion must be more selective. It argues that the list should be limited to only those individuals whose connection to the district is so significant that they would warrant mention in the main prose of the article itself, thereby satisfying WP:BIO/WP:SUMMARY and WP:DUE. This would naturally encompass figures of national/international importance and major cultural or historical figures, but exclude those of primarily local significance. Editors are asked to comment on which standard should be applied to this article's list. Please provide policy-based reasoning for your position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Murkut23 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

• Should be selective - I do not think there is a policy specifically for this, but the general practice seems the person is notable enough to have (a) their own article, or in some cases (b) multiple major news outlets mention them. See | Dawson City - Notable people example or the TALK for Bismark, North Dakota - Notable residents. If the list is long it becomes its own article, see | Toronto - Notable people. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 02:05, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
• Should be selective Template:Sbb There is existing policy that covers this issue – while not specific to "Notable People" lists, WP:LSC provides guidance and criteria for the contents of lists in general. I think it can be applied here, just as it can if as @Markbassett suggests, an independent "Notable people" list is created instead. Smallangryplanet (talk) 12:53, 20 June 2025 (UTC)