Talk:Bessie Smith

Profiles In Hue By George D. Johnson

I've just been checking the dates of birth given in the article, and the clearest source I found was Profiles In Hue By George D. Johnson. I noted a similarity in wording between that source and our article. The book was first published in 2011. On checking the article, the information and wording pre-dates that publication, so it appears that either George D. Johnson copied our article, or that he wrote our article before publishing his book. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 11:27, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

SilkTork, the book's publisher, Xlibris, is a self-publishing and vanity press. The book's copyright page states that most of its text was copied from Wikipedia. Not a reliable source, I'm afraid.

My impression is that some of the uncited facts in this article are supported by Chris Albertson's Bessie. Albertson used to edit this article many years ago, although he hasn't been around in more than eight years, according to his contribution history (although he may contribute periodically as an IP). The Google Books preview isn't very good, but at Amazon I see that the census isn't mentioned in the 2003 "revised and expanded edition" of the book, which says her date of birth "will probably never be verified" for lack of historical records, but cites April 15, 1894, the date on her 1923 application for a marriage license, as "probably correct" (page 7). Another editor may have added the bit about the census, or maybe Albertson found it in subsequent research. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:20, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that info. Early versions of this article are rather direct on what might have happened, for example, from December 2006: "Template:Ex" But, plausible though this is, there are no sources to back this up. I think it is more likely the mother would know the birthdate than the sister, but I also find it odd that the sister didn't know either the month or the year and made such a random guess. Odd that the censor taker allowed this when they would have had the previous data to check against. Given that Bessie would have been eight in 1900 according to the original data, she would have known her own birthday month and age. What eight year old doesn't know that? How would she have forgotten her own birthday and age ten years later? Speculation as to how and why there are two dates is pretty futile at this distance. I think neutral wording is what is needed, with no weighting either way. And a reliable source - clearly not Profiles In Hue By George D. Johnson! SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 07:10, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I've removed the Profiles In Hue source. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 07:56, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

The most reliable and most thoroughly researched secondary source - usually - on blues musicians' birth and death details is Blues - A Regional Experience by Eagle and LeBlanc. Their entry (p.50) is here, with a footnote (#74) on p.423 here. That states her month of birth as July 1892, but also refers to the April 1894 date. The date of April 15, 1894 is not - despite what some sources say - given in the 1910 census, which simply gives her age in years at the census date (April 16, 1910) as 16. (For anyone with access to Ancestry.com records, the census form itself is here.) The April 15 date comes from her 1923 marriage certificate. So far as this article is concerned, the best solution (as is done in many other cases where the details are uncertain) is to explain the uncertainty (if necessary, in a footnote), and give both dates so that the reader can assess the information for themselves - see Wikipedia:These are not original research#Conflict between sources. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Digital remastering citation

Currently the article has a section about Digital Remasters that claims, "Given those historic limitations, the current digitally remastered versions of her work deliver significant improvements in the sound quality of Smith's performances. Some critics believe that the American Columbia Records compact disc releases are somewhat inferior to subsequent transfers made by the late John R. T. Davies for Frog Records.[35]" However, the citation ([35] "100 Best Jazz Recordings". Telegraph. Retrieved 2015-08-30) has no mention of the Columbia recordings or anything about comparative quality. This reads like an advertisement. Is there a real source to back this statement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.25.112.18 (talk) 02:13, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Broughton

The section on Smith’s death refers several times to someone named Broughton, but that person is never identified. Could someone clarify who this is and why they were at the scene? 207.254.175.169 (talk) 02:03, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Bessie Smith - Downhearted Blues (1923).ogg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Bessie Smith - Downhearted Blues (1923).ogg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:52, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

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stop is this fr? 99.185.226.241 (talk) 22:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Global Queer Studies

— Assignment last updated by Christacraven (talk) 19:50, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Bessie Smith as a songwriter

Bessie Smith wrote or co-wrote some 36 of her recorded songs (according to my initial research, subject to revision yet). YMMV but I see this as an important part of her story. She started out with a mix of covers and Tin Pan Alley numbers; then shared writing credits with accompanists like Clarence Williams and Irving Johns; and finally has sole credit for a number of outstanding songs e.g. Back Water Blues, Standing In The Rain, and so on. I was also surprised when I started to look at this that she has some co-writing credits with Ma Rainey.

Of course for Wikipedia I must avoid original research and use only citable sources such as ASCAP. Unfortunately it has some but is missing others such as Back Water Blues which is well attested from other sources. The booklets for the Columbia long box sets had writer credits so I am also trying to get access to those. However the DAHR base at https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php might cover everything, so plan to wade though that.

This talk is just to sound out whether this seems worthwhile and in line with policy. Also I would welcome suggestions how to incorporate the information. Perhaps a separate table with all her songwriting credits? Or just some indication (* or whatever) in the list of singles? Adding a column of writers for all of the singles may tax the time I have available. Stevensims (talk) 07:23, 3 February 2025 (UTC)