Talk:Ahmedabad

Don't Make falls claims, don't add misleading information

from Notable People section i have removed some names that are fallsly claimed, they are not born in ahemdabad or worked in ahemdabad.

Ali Sher Bengali

Kishore Chauhan

Prakash K. Desai

Drashti Dhami

Mahatma Gandhi

Sanjeev Kumar

Jhaverchand Meghani

Ketan Mehta

Sudhir Mehta

Rohinton Mistry

Smita Patil

Falguni Pathak

Amrita Pritam

Naseeruddin Shah

Ravi Shankar

Hemant Shesh

Manhar Udhas Annki777 (talk) 15:51, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

NPOV and fluff

Hey @SpunkyGeek - Thanks for collaborating on the Ahmedabad article. With respect to your edits, I wanted to point out two things.

1. The first sentence is both unsourced and comes across as a little biased with fluff. I removed it pursuant to the WP:NOR, WP:NPOV, and MOS:PUFFERY. The content itself is likely best covered in the “Early history” section when the city became a trade centre during the Mughal period.
2. The second sentence is best covered under the “Population” and “Culture” sections. I’ve cleaned up the former noting the population of the city relative to the other cities in India and the latter already includes references to monuments, museums, and festivals.

Following your review, let me know if you agree to remove the content from the “Post-Independence” section.

The 2010 FAR cited the article as having content issues including verifiability issues, low citation standards, and a biased POV as well as style issues including MOS:WEASEL and MOS:PUFFERY. To the extent you’re interested, I’d greatly appreciate it if you could help address these issues. Thanks!

The Shadow Hokage (talk) 17:27, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello @The Shadow Hokage

Thanks for discussing this.

1. About Ahmedabad's historical significance (focus is throughout its history not just Early History), the info comes from a legit source. If needed, I can back it up with another source. The part about it growing into a prosperous trade hub is pretty much straight facts. There’s no POV in it. Can back my claim here.
2. As for moving stuff around, I'm cool with shifting that statement to the Culture section. It makes sense. I can back that up too with more sources if you want.  

But I don’t think any puffery is involved here based on the sources.

~~~ SpunkyGeek (talk) 20:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey @SpunkyGeek - Thanks for engaging on this topic / issue!

On the #2 item, I'm glad we agree on moving that sentence and I'd certainly appreciate your help with the article.

On the #1 item, firstly, there is no citation directly identifying that sentence as currently drafted. Secondly, and more importantly, I still believe we should stay away from words like "prosperous." If the adverb is based on any industry or trade, we should include that specific industry or trade instead of words such as "prosperous," which could seemingly come across as a "peacock term." Looking at the source you have linked, I believe it would be appropriate to either speak about the textile industry in the "Modern history section" or perhaps include a quote about how in the 1990s, Ahmedabad "emerged as the financial capital of the state."

I reckon being mindful of the tone / words will go a long way towards resolving the issues brought up in the FAR and improve the overall quality of the article. Let me know your thoughts and thanks again!

The Shadow Hokage (talk) 04:31, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey @TheShadowHokage,

I want to explain the rationale behind using the term “prosperous” …

The timeline (“Over the years”) we want to focus on regarding 1st statement is modern history 19th and 20th  centuries (because almost every place has developed since the medieval ages) Here,  the author writes: -  “The establishment of the first cotton textile mill in 1861, without any special climatic advantage and before the advent of railways, and how this industry expanded over the years speaks for the high level of business acumen.” This statement signifies the industrialization in Ahmedabad (It’s called Manchester of India), also the author confirms migration to the city which is another signal of “prosperity” or development…

For the 21st century,

This article also emphasizes Ahmedabad being one of the successful cities in terms of growth and infra. Yes, I agree that economy and growth numbers are not the only indicators of absolute prosperity, but it does indicate improvement in the common lifestyle, and here we are talking about development over the years.... which seems pretty factual.

I understand the term “prosperous” may bring some POV, but we can rephrase it to something like :

"Post-independence Ahmedabad has seen development in manufacturing and infrastructure" SpunkyGeek (talk) 17:05, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey @SpunkyGeek - Apologies but I got sidetracked with work over the last few days. I have no issues with your proposed edit at the end and believe that it helps address the POV issues. Thanks again for your engagement on this article.

The Shadow Hokage (talk) 01:25, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Administration

Not just a question and criticism for this page, but there really needs to be a clear separation in how we write about local self-government (municipalities & panchayats) and local administration (revenue subdivisions, talukas, & CD blocks) in these articles. Even the infobox included in this article mixes things up right from the start about whether this will be an article about local government or local administration. It shows the boundaries of Ahmedabad district, when it should be showing the boundaries of the Amdavad Municipal Corporation, which is the "city" here.

And to consolidate this, here, there also needs to be some corrections made on the article for the Ahmedabad district concerning its local administration. Many maps are included in the article, but none seem to reflect that apparently Ahmedabad City taluka is not longer a taluka, and also that Ahmedabad City East taluka & Ahmedabad City West taluka are also no longer in existence? It also be worth noting which talukas the current Amdavad Municipal Corporation covers, in full or in part. I imagine that the boundaries of the municipal corporation don't necessarily line up with the administrative divisions, though that is just a guess. --Criticalthinker (talk) 05:59, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

The infobox has a map that shows where the city is in (a) the district, (b) state of Gujarat, (c) India. The article on Amdavad Municipal Corporation does not have a map showing the municipal boundaries - but as pointed out in Amdavad Municipal Corporation#Jurisdiction, the municipal boundaries keep expanding.

But having said that, some parts of the infobox are a mess. Some of the data refer to Ahmedabad Urban Agglomeration, which, "addition to the area falling under the Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation's limit, ... also includes 5 growth centers and 169 villages of Ahmedabad district. The expansion of AUDA comes of 186600 Hectares(1866-sq. km.) Area, which includes Ahmedabad City (Municipal Corporation) of 44950 Hectares."^[1]-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:20, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

I mean, there are categories in infoboxes for "urban" measurements in population and area (in addition to regular "city" and "metro" categories). As long as that's made clear, it should be fine. But what I take issue with many of these articles is that it's not clear throughout what is being measured as the "city" and often skips across multiple definitions. I just want us to be consistent. And this critique is really just as much about the other articles (Amdavad Municipal Corporation & Ahmedabad district) as it is this one, but I didn't want to post this concern and critique across multiple articles. Criticalthinker (talk) 06:17, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Addition of IIM Ahmedabad and (Pols -An UNESCO WHC site) to the Montage

@Chariotrider555 Ahmedabad is known for IIM Ahmedabad, as it's the No 1 and most prestigious B school in India and even Asia. IIM A has recieved multiple national and international awards too. Adding onto that it's widely recognised in India (as it's a Institute of National Importance, that too the top one), and even locally, Ahmedabad has a IIM road too for that matters. It has featured in several hit films and award winning books to increase its importance. Also historically how the Indian government inaugurated this first of a kind B school with prominent role of top scientist and physicist Vikram Sarabhai to impart quality education amplifies it's importance too. So IIM deserves its place instead of the Jama Mosque, which is not that notable to be in montage, as it's already there in the Cityscape section. Also we have 1 place of worship in Hutheesing temple already in montage, why not add a reputed education institute in IIM, considering it's the No. 1 in the nation. Editking100 (talk) 15:48, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

An issue here is that the gallery in the infobox has eight photographs, and is quite large. So you were right to think that if you wanted an image of the Indian Institute of Management you needed to remove an existing photograph. In terms of average page views per month over the last 9 years:

• Jama Mosque, Ahmedabad 1,693.^[2]
• Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad 12,009.^[3]

Personally I think there are too many photographs in the infobox, and that it should be trimmed from eight to five.-- Toddy1 (talk) 17:57, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes that's what even if we set aside the importance of IIM for a minute, and look at the numbers, you'd get my point. Numbers don't lie they say. Editking100 (talk) 19:37, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Current 8 photos in the montage perfectly describe what Ahmedabad is, I don't advise trimming to 5. Let's keep it as it is. Editking100 (talk) 19:39, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

And it is wrong to use the same photograph in two places in the article - if you want it in the infobox, you cannot display it in the cityscape gallery.-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:01, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Jama Masjid is also an iconic structure and a symbol of the Sultanate era architecture and history found in the city. It is a Monument of National Importance (N-GJ-7). If only one place of worship should be in the infobox, it should rather be the Jama Masjid rather than the Hutheesing Jain Temple. The Hutheesing Jain temple is neither an Indian Monument of National Importance nor a Gujarat State Protected Monument. It is only considered a Grade I Heritage Structure by the Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation.. The Jama Masjid is representative of the city's prominent Sultanate era architecture, for which Ahmadabad is more notable (both in number and historical value) in comparison to Ahmadabad's Maru-Gurjara Revival architecture. For reference view scholarly surveys of Ahmedabad's architecture.Chariotrider555 (talk) 18:18, 31 May 2025 (UTC) Chariotrider555 (talk) 18:18, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Template:Cot Template:Template other Template:Cob Is this OK? If it is, we need to move File:Sheth Hutheesinh Temple.jpg to the cityscape gallery, and remove File:Jama Masjid, Ahmedabad 01.jpg from the cityscape gallery.-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:01, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Let the Temple and Mosque be in the Cityscape itself. I suggest we should add picture of a Pol of Ahmedabad, as it's a UNESCO World heritage site. Quoting UNESCO "These pols, a maze of narrow streets lined with densely packed houses, are the heart of Old Ahmedabad, a UNESCO World Heritage Site". You can look upto the UNESCO site by searching these quotes. Also it's unique to Ahmedabad and so deserves its mention in the Montage. More weightage should be given to a UNESCO World Heritage site (pols) rather than one of things that made Ahmedabad a heritage city (Juma mosque etc). Editking100 (talk) 20:16, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Look at the wikipedia article, 'List of pols in Ahmedabad', you'll get a link of UNESCO mentioning that these pols were the one, who helped Ahmedabad gain a place in UNESCO's World Heritage Site selection criteria via clauses II, III and IV.

If you look to the UNESCO page, https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1551 You'll see that in the Brief synthesis, Criteria II and V you'll notice it weighs in words like 'pols', 'puras', 'havelis', 'khadkis', 'settlement planning', 'community living', 'gated street' etc in the reasons why Ahmedabad got it WHC status. It doesn't mention just 1 or 2 places of worship there and focuses on the traditional residential architecture (pols) in which multicultural coexistence was present at that time, and so Ahmedabad got its WHC. If you look at the gallery of that UNESCO page, places of worship of all religions (Hindus, Jains, Muslims) are shown there, but they are outnumbered significantly by the images of Pols, Street Views, Traditional facades, Wall carvings and Wooden brackets of various Pols. So weighing on all this things, I suggest that we put a image of a Pol instead of the Hutheesing Temple or Jama Mosque, as you can't ignore UNESCO WHC winning sites in the Montage of a WHC city. That would be irony of the highest order. This ends my (cordial & informative) argument. Editking100 (talk) 21:12, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Reasons for minute changes done in Montage:

1) Added Pol img. with description (detailed reason mentioned just above)

2) IIM - A img. stays (detailed reason at starting of above thread)

3) Hutheesing temple stays (Rare historic jain temple) of Maru-Gurjara style

+ Architecture specific to Gujarat (only found here)

+ Strong historical ties of Hutheesing family with Ahmedabad in multiple ways (read Hutheesing family wikipedia page)

+ Not in cityscape section (just Hutheesing entrance gate was there, which i removed)

Whereas Jama Mosque stays in Cityscape as it's an architecture of a more comman type (Indo-Islamic type), which has lots of monuments in the nation ranging from Delhi Sultanate to Bengal Sultanate to Western India and subcontinent etc (and there are over 3000 monuments of National importance in whole of India, it doesn't mean all of them find a place in every montage that exists), here more things are favouring the Hutheesing temple wrt rarity, Gujarat specific/limited architecture, strong ties with Ahmedabad of makers, all of which i explained just above.

+ Detailed reason of why Pols are choosen over it explained above citing UNESCO links.

4) Removed Ahmedabad Brts as it's not relevant (in montage) today, as in now we have metro and will have bullet train soon (so I removed citing relevance)

Other all images fits perfect to what Ahmedabad is and what a montage should be (now we have a blended mix of everything across sectors) and while I looked at montages of lots of National/Int. Cities, I feel this 8 images does justice and we shouldnt remove them as lots of metro cities more or less have the same schema (one of each category). So, I couldn't get a reason to change anything that's already apt.

Thank s Editking100 (talk) 00:12, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

The UNESCO World Heritage Site criterion II was cited as being fulfilled through the Sultanate-era architecture primarily the mosques of which the Jama Mosque is the prime example. Chariotrider555 (talk) 04:42, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/155

Read the brief synthesis (weighs on Pol)

Criteria 5 (weighs on settlement planning ie Pol again)

Even in Criteria 2, which you mentioned, the word settlement planning is mentioned and not one single structure (like jama mosque is mentioned). So we are ignoring Pols which is numerous times mentioned with a place ie not at all mentioned in the UNESCO page. Read full explanation in above thread i wrote Editking100 (talk) 09:00, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Template:Ping please can you make a compromise version of the infobox on this talk page that takes into account both your and Template:Ping's views. A way to do it is like I did above at what the infobox could look like. It is difficult for the rest of us to see what you mean if you do not show us what you mean. When you are doing this, please give consideration as to which images should be full width, and which half width, and explain the reasoning in your comments.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:40, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

I made a compromise version including both parties demands, hope this is perfect and I'll edit keeping this in mind.

Img 1: Skyline of SG Highway,full

Img 2: Sabarmati Riverfront, half

Img 3: Sheth Hutheesing Temple, half

Img 4: Atal Pedestrian Bridge, half

Img 5: Ahmedabad Aerial View,half

Img 6: An Ahmedabad Pol, half

Img 7: Jama Mosque, half

Img 8: IIM Ahmedabad, half

Img 9: Narendra Modi Stadium, half Editking100 (talk) 09:12, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Done, both parties images are now in the infobox, considering the constructive arguments above. Peace. Editking100 (talk) 10:01, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Support. Chariotrider555 (talk) 22:48, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Proposal to include a table in sports section of the teams/clubs representing Ahmedabad

Proposal to include a table in sports section of the teams/clubs representing Ahmedabad. Similar tables are there for cities like Mumbai, check that out for reference. @Toddy1 @Chariotrider555. What do you guys say? Editking100 (talk) 10:10, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

In that article there is a section on sports (Mumbai#Sports). Notice that the section has lots of citations, making it clear that it is based on what reliable sources say, and that sports in that city are notable. Please build the section either before or at the same time that you build the table. It can be a good idea to do some of the work in your sandbox first - it avoids edit conflicts - and gives you a chance to work out how to format some things by trial and error.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. Will work on it. Editking100 (talk) 14:45, 1 June 2025 (UTC)