Wiki143:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

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June 18

Source of FBI Wanted Poster for Luis Macedo photos

File:Luis Macedo (FBI).jpg

I understand that they photo are unlikely to have been taken by the FBI but i need to know by whom and where they were taken. I presume it was after an arrest or something--Trade (talk) 00:28, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

The Arlington Cardinal almost credits it to Chicago PD, and a second time in a later story. Unfortunately it's just "police photo" both times, with mentions of Chicago Police Department further down the story.  Card Zero  (talk) 01:10, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

Is Corey Perry (NHL) the most cursed man in sports history?

He has lost in five (5) Stanley Cup Finals in the last six years. Anyone with such a streak of bad luck? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt714931 (talk • contribs) 19:33, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

Template:Yo I read about that. In American football, the NFL's Buffalo Bills lost four straight Super Bowls in the early 1990s. There may be some players who were on the Bills team for all of them. Left guide (talk) 20:10, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

You are correct. There were players who played all four years and lost all for Super Bowl games. Further, Gale Gilbert, Cornelius Bennett, and Glenn Parker went on to lost another (fifth) Super Bowl with other teams. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 11:14, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

Also, Whitey Ford lost the World Series eight times. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 12:36, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

Not exactly. Whitey was on 11 Yankees World Series teams. They were winners in 1950, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961 and 1962; and losers in 1955, 1957, 1960, 1963 and 1964. He pitched in 22 games and his won-lost record for those individual games was 10-8, with 4 of them being no decision.[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:32, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

And Yogi Berra spanned those years.[2] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:15, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

It's worth pointing that the late Jim Marshall (defensive end) was one of 11 Vikings players who was on all four of their Super Bowl losses. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:38, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

My quibble here is about using the words "in sports history", and then talking about only North American sports MEN. I don't know the answer, but I'm sure there are some men from other countries, and maybe some sports WOMEN, who might qualify. As an Australian, I might nominate Nathan Buckley who left the Brisbane Australian rules football club he was originally drafted to, to go to the Collingwood Football Club in the belief he had more chance of winning a premiership (championship) there. After he moved, Brisbane won three premierships, including two against his new club, and Collingwood won none. HiLo48 (talk) 03:55, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

He was always the bridesmaid, never the bride. That's a kind of woman. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:52, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

Jimmy White played 6 snooker World Championship finals and lost them all, including 5 in a row from 1990-1994 2A01:4B00:D217:1500:709A:8F0E:A0F1:F845 (talk) 00:11, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

Harry Kane spent most of his career under a supposed trophy curse, having played almost his entire career for the Spursy Tottenham Hotspur and a disappointing England. There's no run of losses in any one game in particular - rather there's a mixture of near misses and late tournament exits for both Spurs and England, who Kane captained. What elevates it to comedy is that in 2023 he transferred to Bayern Munich, one of the most dominant clubs in Europe... and his first season there was the first Bayern failed to win the Bundesliga since 2012! Spurs also went on to finally win a major trophy just after Kane left. (Kane has now broken the curse, with Bayern winning the Bundesliga this year) Smurrayinchester 14:24, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Uni High's basketball team lost every game for years. —Tamfang (talk) 20:15, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Detail of the 1978 European Cup final, Liverpool Bruges

Bruges played the final in a white shirt with a purple stripe, presumably their away kit that year, while the blue shirt with a white stripe was probably their home kit. If they had won the Cup in '78, would the ribbons on the trophy have been the same colour as one of the two kits (in this case, the white away kit), or would the ribbons themselves have been black and blue, based on the club's historic colours? Thank you. 93.147.231.16 (talk) 21:23, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

I doubt if it would be possible to find out for sure, but it would have looked odd for a team in white and purple strip on the night to have been presented with a trophy bearing black and blue ribbons.

In that era the winning club were given the actual trophy to hold for ten months (rather than a replica as has been the case since 2009). If Bruges had won in 1978, they would likely have been free to display it in their trophy cabinet and elsewhere with black and blue ribbons substituted (or no ribbons at all), had they wished. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.41.216 (talk) 00:32, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

June 22

19th century San Francisco etiquette: hats and facial hair

File:Entrance to Woodward's Gardens ca. 1866–1892.jpg

ca. 1866–1892

This question probably comes up a lot, but I've never seen a really good answer here or anywhere else for that matter. This is a photo of 19th century San Francisco, sometime between 1866–1892, but more likely 1870-1880. As you can see from the image, every boy and man has a hat. From what I've read, each hat gave off social status signals to other boys and men, allowing them to instantly recognize your social status, class, wealth, etc. I don't know if that's actually true, which is part of this question. Another reason I'm asking is that it is believed part of this stems from religious conservatism, but even that is unknown. One thing that I can't help thinking about is that maybe there was an older folk medicine belief at work here. Perhaps people once believed that going outside bareheaded could lead to catching cold, being exposed to lice, and all the rest? It seems like a reasonable theory given the wildlife back then, and all the stories I've heard about people hiking trails in the Bay Area and having all kinds of ticks and creepy crawlies just drop down on them. Then, there's the facial hair. Why so many beards and mustaches? Viriditas (talk) 01:32, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

C. Northcote Parkinson, in chapter 9 of The law of delay, links the cyclic nature of facial hair fashion to the advances and retreats of western civilization. Template:Tq  Card Zero  (talk) 02:09, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

That's a funny answer, but it sounds pretty silly. Check out the beard on Eadweard Muybridge. Although he didn't take the above photo, he took others like it, and advanced the field of photography. But to your point, his bio indicates that he was involved in a serious runaway stagecoach crash, thrown from the vehicle, only to land on a rock which smashed his head. More recent historical analysis suggests he sustained some kind of brain damage, and there is an indirect suggestion that he soon grew a long beard (Having fun, folks, don't take this too seriously). Viriditas (talk) 02:24, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Dress styles, including head coverings, have served as indicators of social status through the ages in cultures throughout the world. The character Andy Capp wears a flat cap because he is a plain English working-class sod. Dutch has the expression Jan met de pet (Jan with the cap) for "the common man". Mr. Monopoly wears a top hat; he's a rich rentier who looks like he hasn't worked a single day in his life. The book Fashion and Its Social Agendas: Class, Gender, and Identity in Clothing has a chapter "The social meaning of hats", pp. 82–87, that is not easily summarized, but the almost obligatory wearing of hats or caps by men, consonant with their social status, was much more widespread than San Francisco or even America, and lasted well into the 20th century.  ​‑‑Lambiam 05:12, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Reading the book now. Thanks! Viriditas (talk) 21:12, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

The Deerstalker allowed you to deduce all you needed to know about its wearer. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:26, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

It allows me to deduce that the wearer hasn't actually read the stories, as such a hat is never mentioned in them. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:06, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

I have, actually, a long time ago and not in a galaxy far, far away. You can deduce that I watched some of Basil Rathbone's Holmes films. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:25, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

The hat is indeed never mentioned, but in the original magazine illustrations by Sidney Paget of several stories, the earliest in 1891, Holmes was depicted wearing a deerstalker. Since Doyle liked Paget's illustrations and later asked to have him illustrate further stories, we can assume that he gave his imprimatur to the deerstalker, making it canon. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.41.216 (talk) 18:54, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

Do they mention Holmes wearing underwear? If not, I hope our cosplayer is going commando, for authenticity. 207.11.240.2 (talk) 13:05, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

Ovo energy ad

The Ovo Energy advert running on UK commercial radio at the moment features a talking washing machine that leaves a series of voicemails for its owner, and one of the messages has been bugging me for the last few weeks because I can't seem to catch one of the words. Can anyone tell me what it is that smells like clouds? It sounds like vimy, but surely that wouldn't make any sense. Thanks in advance. This is Paul (talk) 10:12, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Can you find it on Youtube? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:05, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

I've looked, but no success so far. This is Paul (talk) 22:05, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Could you give the surrounding text (preferably at least a full sentence) in which you hear this soft-smelling word?  ​‑‑Lambiam 17:39, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

"Blimey, smells like clouds!" I haven't heard the advert, but I can imagine that being said, from the context given. 207.11.240.2 (talk) 12:03, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

Also consider the possibility that the art director / copy writer / what ever may have deliberately deployed a nonce word to define the "smell of clouds" to tickle prospective customers.

Whilst we have an article on olfactory language there is no mention of clouds. Most of us will be aware that the air holds a specific smell prior and shortly after a thunderstorm. Not that I remember a specific term for this...

Being a regular in a tiny wine bar hidden in a back alley to our Gothic cathedral I once listened to a discussion involving a connoisseur (?) on a specific grape. Multiple terms, relating to smell and taste, were used and some of the words clearly belonged to the jargon of sommeliers, being largely meaningless to me. It may be possible that meteorologists have developed erudite terminologies for sniffing in the exalted athmospheres. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:06, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

There is petrichor, though this is not so much the smell of rain as of scents liberated from rocks (and other things) made wet. 213.143.143.69 (talk) 13:27, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

I think the idea in the advert is that people can imagine what clouds might smell like, as an analogy to describe what they are actually smelling (which I understand from similar adverts is meant to evoke "freshness"). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.41.216 (talk) 00:16, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

Clouds are angel farts.  ​‑‑Lambiam 05:13, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

June 26

Forearm lifting straps

"Forearm Forklift" is a well known brand of these, at around $35. These ones[3] from Hobo Freight are $13 and look similar. Anyone know if there is a significant difference? I'd be an infrequent user. I just have a few not too horrendous pieces of furniture to move.

I'm also puzzled by the claim these things can lift 800 lb. It's a two person operation: do they think each person can lift 400?

At a later time I may want to move a 350 lb appliance and I sure can't lift 175. It's a little bit odd that there doesn't seem to be a 4 person version. I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried using two sets (either the forearm version or the shoulder dolly version) with 4 people. I heard somewhere that is possible, but I think the "person"* who said that may have been hallucinating.

* "Person" = Duckduckgo GPT-4o chatbot. I had never talked to one before and I'm halfway impressed, but meh.

Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:105A:A885:CC85:24C4 (talk) 08:43, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

I see "700 lb. maximum capacity" for the HAUL-MASTER Forearm Lifting Straps, which means a promise that if the load is 700 lb, and some agent or combination of agents can deliver an upward force of more than 700 lbf, the straps will support the weight. Home Depot rates the Forearm Forklift FF000012 also at 700 lb and lists a price of $29.98.

People in good condition can support a substantially heavier weight from their shoulders, and there are also shoulder lifting straps on the market.^[4] The risk of overloading one's shoulders or back, with ensuing physiological damage, should, however, not be taken lightly.

I expect that a group of 4 persons can use two 2-person sets, positioned orthogonally to each other (☩) across the centre of mass.  ​‑‑Lambiam 09:48, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, some commenters on Reddit said that while the shoulder style might be able to move more weight, the forearm ones are more maneuverable and flexible. Since the items I'm immediately trying to move are in the 100 lb range max, I think the forearm ones should be enough. Mostly I wanted to know if I should spend $30 instead of $13 getting the name brand instead of HFT. I think I will get the HFT ones and if they don't suffice, then either upgrade or get the shoulder type. For the 350 thing (later in the year, if it happens at all) maybe I can rent a stairclimber. 2601:644:8581:75B0:A5A0:D83B:8060:B185 (talk) 21:45, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

I got the HFT straps and they are fine as far as I can tell. I didn't get the FF ones so can't compare. 2601:644:8581:75B0:FE49:AD74:4737:68AE (talk) 03:03, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

Is "male as norm" the most common name for the concept it refers to?

When I came across the Male as norm article, I thought to myself that the term (as it is used) is phrased weirdly and that Male normativity would be a better title for it, but I'm not sure if it's more commonly called that. If there is a more common name, I may make a talk page request asking for consensus as to whether or not the article should be moved to such a name. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 13:28, 26 June 2025 (UTC) – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 13:28, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are preferentially titled by the most commonly used name for the subject, rather than the most technically correct or official, to maximise success in searching for them (see WP:COMMONNAME).

If I were searching for an article about this subject, without knowing what it was actually called, I think I'd be more likely to guess something like 'Male as norm' than 'Male normativity'.

That said, a Talk page discussion would be a good way to proceed. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.41.216 (talk) 15:45, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

I know this as Male default, one of the redirects to male as norm. Generally I agree that starting a talk page discussion or a WP:RM once you have an idea what to do (and what the sources say) is the way to go. —Kusma (talk) 16:17, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

This should merge with Androcentrism.  Card Zero  (talk) 18:52, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

Male as norm is not a well-written encyclopedic article, but as it is, it is too bloated and focussing too specifically on the English language in modern society to be suitable for merging into the much higher quality Androcentrism. A better title for a better article might be something like "Generic use of masculine language", since it is solely about the use of masculine forms with an alleged generic sense.  ​‑‑Lambiam 07:33, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

June 28

Deadliest single county for United States tornadoes?

A bit of a morbid question here - which U.S. county has seen the most direct and/or indirect tornado-caused fatalities? I've asked around elsewhere but the only two counties we could come up with were Jackson County, Illinois and Hall County, Georgia, although the latter is probably wrong. — ^EF⁵ 14:29, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

Tornadoes only very, very rarely respect county lines. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 18:38, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

Well, yes, but fatalities within counties. ^EF⁵ 19:21, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

The problem with answering this question is that there are very few tornado-caused deaths. It is small enough that a single deadly tornado can overshadow all other deaths in a year. As such, looking at extremely deadly tornados (the 1977 super cell) will give you a county that most likely has the most deaths, not because it is frequented by tornados, but because it had one very deadly tornado. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 14:27, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

June 29

Educational programming aimed at younger audience

I’m very curious about this media. Can you please explain on why educational programming, such as Nick Jr and Disney Jr are aimed at preschoolers and younger audiences, while TV shows and cartoons aimed at older audiences are primarily and mainly entertainment? What is the reason behind this? Why do shows like non-educational shows get more popularity and appeal than educational shows? 2600:387:F:5719:0:0:0:3 (talk) 10:32, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

My impression is that pre-schoolers are by definition not necessarily receiving any formal education, thought they are at a stage of development when they can absorb a great deal of knowledge, so shows that provide educational elements are thought to be important for them; those that are older and now in formal education are receiving it there, often quite intensively, so may be thought to have a greater need for entertainment as a relaxation from their efforts earlier in the day. Note however that educational shows require some degree of entertainment to retain viewers' interest, and 'non-educational' shows may include educational elements, even if disguised or unobvious.

Educational shows are mostly (though not entirely, see for example the Open University which formerly made extensive use of TV broadcasts) aimed at quite young audiences; non-educational shows are aimed at both older and broader age groups, to the extent that even adults enjoy them, so they have larger appreciative audiences. Since ultimately program(me) makers are in part driven by the ambition to maximise their viewing figures (which attracts greater institutional funding, or advertising revenue, or both), they actively seek to maximise their shows' appeal. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.192.251.148 (talk) 12:45, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

In the UK, some TV output is specifically designed for use in the school corriculum, see BBC Schools and Channel 4#Schools programming. Other programmes for older children mix education with entertainment, especially on the BBC with its public service ethos; Newsround (current affairs) and Deadly 60 (wildlife) are examples, while magazine programmes such as Blue Peter have a great deal of educational content. Alansplodge (talk) 11:41, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Naure and science shows are classified as educational and are usually aimed at older audiences. Overall, people don't want to learn. They want to be entertained. That is why the nature shows have to keep showing cute or silly animals to hide the educational value of the progam. Science shows have to blow stuff up to keep people tuned in. Any education is sneakily crammed beween the cute animal babies and big explosions. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 14:10, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Native American nations not being independent countries

I noticed the article about history of Native Americans and the present today. I’m motivated about their culture. Native Americans are diverse set of groups and have their own cultures. But would you please explain why do tribal nations or reservations, such as Navajo Nation, Pine Ridge Reservation, and Cherokee Nation not independent countries and are instead part of USA, despite having different cultures, languages, and traditions that are separate from each other and why would the USA won’t declare them independence? I know that the USA calls them domestic dependent nations. And I know that each of them can make laws. Don’t forget that they lasted for thousands of years before Europeans arrived. At least most can run casinos also. Additionally, why wouldn’t they have separate Olympics teams, engage in foreign relations, declare wars with each other, have their own passports, and issue currency? 2600:387:F:5719:0:0:0:3 (talk) 10:52, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

Because they are de facto under the control of the USA, for whom this would be disadvantageous. Granting them full independent nation status (assuming they wanted it) would open possible legal claims for compensation at an international level, which would be more difficult for the USA to ignore: see the articles Native Americans in the United States and Native American civil rights for details of some of their potential grounds, and for links to further relevant articles.

Currently these tribal nations have a great many* lawsuits proceeding and outstanding against US State and federal administrations, but many of these have effectively been delayed or suspended for many decades because nothing can force the government to let them proceed. (* There is, deliberately, no central consolidated list, so actual numbers are hard to quantify.)

Hope this helps. Doubtless others will be able to make more informed contributions. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.192.251.148 (talk) 13:06, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

Why would they be under US control, after conquering lands of native? When will they become countries in future? (Late 21st century/early 22nd century) 2600:387:F:5719:0:0:0:3 (talk) 22:25, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

I mean they are under US control now: the USA wants to keep it that way, so will (probably) not agree to giving them independence in the foreseeable future. This is a legacy of the US principle of 'Manifest Destiny' (which as a non-American, I do not of course endorse) and a policy of political pragmatism.

As to "when they will become countries in the future?" – See the notice at the top of the this page: We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate. No-one can give a realistic answer: my own wild guess would be 'not while the USA continues to exist.' {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.192.251.148 (talk) 00:38, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

A classic case of shooting oneself in the foot while kicking an own goal. Guesses are disapproved of as much as predictions. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:10, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

I called it "my own wild guess" to emphasise its lack of value, and phrased it in a way likely not to sound useful to the OP (or others). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.192.251.148 (talk) 01:28, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

Were they ever formally countries or just loose confederations of tribes/clans? Clarityfiend (talk) 06:43, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

The European settlers (especially the European governments) did not recognize the Native American populations as being countries in any way. They were recognized as roaming bands of people, similar to the Roma. I am certain that some people have considered the populations to be countries (or even one large country), but there was no "formal" recognition. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 11:50, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

Give permanently blocked users another chance

Moderators here can be overly strict, especially with users who may have autism or ADHD. Not all sockpuppet accounts are meant for trolling—some just want to rejoin and contribute. At the very least, let them use their talk pages to appeal or explain. Some people deserve a second chance.

76.64.95.122 (talk) 23:37, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

Which user are you thinking of, specifically? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:09, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

My friend's account. 76.64.95.122 (talk) 00:48, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

I believe his username was called Ice Age 101. 76.64.95.122 (talk) 00:49, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Unless a blocked user has also been blocked from their own talk page (usually for egregious misuse of the talk page), he or she can certainly "use their talk pages to appeal". See Wikipedia:Appealing a block. Making a sockpuppet account, however, is not the way to circumvent a block; it's just a way of getting the user into more trouble. Deor (talk) 00:59, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Which they were, in this case: [5]. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:31, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

June 30

Courtesy, thanks

Can someone please fix the source, to the references section regarding Michael Keaton's date of birth? It is number 3. Thank you. 37.159.35.223 (talk) 19:03, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

File:Yes check.svg Done.  ​‑‑Lambiam 20:44, 30 June 2025 (UTC)