Godwin's law: Difference between revisions
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[[File:Godwin's law t-shirt at Rally to restore sanity, 2010 (cropped).jpg|thumb|upright|An attendee at the 2010 [[Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear]] wearing a T-shirt implicitly referencing Godwin's Law: "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler."]] | [[File:Godwin's law t-shirt at Rally to restore sanity, 2010 (cropped).jpg|thumb|upright|An attendee at the 2010 [[Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear]] wearing a T-shirt implicitly referencing Godwin's Law: "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler."]] | ||
'''Godwin's law''' (or '''Godwin's rule'''), short for '''Godwin's law of Nazi analogies''',<ref name="Godwin94">{{cite magazine |last=Godwin |first=Mike |author-link=Mike Godwin |title=Meme, Counter-meme |date=October 1, 1994 |magazine=[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]] |volume=2 |issue=10 |url= https://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.10/godwin.if_pr.html |access-date=March 24, 2006}}</ref> is an Internet [[adage]] asserting: "As an [[online discussion]] grows longer, the probability of a [[Nazi analogies|comparison involving Nazis]] or | '''Godwin's law''' (or '''Godwin's rule'''), short for '''Godwin's law of Nazi analogies''',<ref name="Godwin94">{{cite magazine |last=Godwin |first=Mike |author-link=Mike Godwin |title=Meme, Counter-meme |date=October 1, 1994 |magazine=[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]] |volume=2 |issue=10 |url= https://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.10/godwin.if_pr.html |access-date=March 24, 2006}}</ref> is an [[Internet]] [[adage]] asserting: "As an [[online discussion]] grows longer, the probability of a [[Nazi analogies|comparison involving Nazis]] or Hitler [[Almost surely|approaches one]]."<ref name="Godwin95canonical version">{{cite web |last=Godwin |first=Mike |author-link=Mike Godwin |title=Godwin's law of Hitler Analogies (and Corollaries) |work=w2.EFF.org |date=January 12, 1995 |publisher=[[Electronic Frontier Foundation]] |department="Net Culture – Humor" archive section |url= http://w2.eff.org/Net_culture/Folklore/Humor/godwins.law |access-date=June 19, 2012 |url-status=dead |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20120829094739/http://w2.eff.org/Net_culture/Folklore/Humor/godwins.law |archive-date=August 29, 2012}}</ref> The law’s creator, [[Mike Godwin]], maintains these comparisons often trivialize [[the Holocaust]]. It is an example of the {{lang|la|[[reductio ad Hitlerum]]}} fallacy. | ||
In 2021, [[Harvard University|Harvard]] researchers published an article showing that the Nazi-comparison phenomenon does not occur with [[Statistical significance|statistically meaningful]] frequency in [[Reddit]] discussions.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Harrison |first=Stephen |title=Has Godwin's Law, the Rule of Nazi Comparisons, Been Disproved? |work=[[Slate (magazine)|Slate]] |date=January 24, 2022 |url= https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-history.html |access-date=April 23, 2022}}</ref><ref>{{Cite journal |last1=Fariello |first1=Gabriele |last2=Jemielniak |first2=Dariusz |author-link2=Dariusz Jemielniak |last3=Sulkowski |first3=Adam |date=December 12, 2021 |title=Does Godwin's law (rule of Nazi analogies) apply in observable reality? An empirical study of selected words in 199 million Reddit posts |url= http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14614448211062070 |journal=[[New Media & Society]] |volume=26 |pages=389–404 |issn=1461-4448 |publisher=[[Sage Publishing]] |doi=10.1177/14614448211062070 |s2cid=245035602|url-access=subscription }}</ref> | In 2021, [[Harvard University|Harvard]] researchers published an article showing that the Nazi-comparison phenomenon does not occur with [[Statistical significance|statistically meaningful]] frequency in [[Reddit]] discussions.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Harrison |first=Stephen |title=Has Godwin's Law, the Rule of Nazi Comparisons, Been Disproved? |work=[[Slate (magazine)|Slate]] |date=January 24, 2022 |url= https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/godwins-law-research-disproven-history.html |access-date=April 23, 2022}}</ref><ref>{{Cite journal |last1=Fariello |first1=Gabriele |last2=Jemielniak |first2=Dariusz |author-link2=Dariusz Jemielniak |last3=Sulkowski |first3=Adam |date=December 12, 2021 |title=Does Godwin's law (rule of Nazi analogies) apply in observable reality? An empirical study of selected words in 199 million Reddit posts |url= http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14614448211062070 |journal=[[New Media & Society]] |volume=26 |pages=389–404 |issn=1461-4448 |publisher=[[Sage Publishing]] |doi=10.1177/14614448211062070 |s2cid=245035602|url-access=subscription }}</ref> | ||
==History== | ==History== | ||
[[File:Mike Godwin at Wikimedia 2010 cropped.jpg|thumb|upright|Godwin in 2010]] | [[File:Mike Godwin at Wikimedia 2010 cropped.jpg|thumb|upright|Godwin in 2010]] | ||
Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,<ref name="Godwin94" /> Godwin's law originally referred specifically to [[Usenet newsgroup]] discussions.<ref name="Godwin 1991">{{cite newsgroup |last=Godwin |first=Mike |author-link=Mike Godwin |title=Re: Nazis (was Re: Card's Article on Homosexuality |date=August 18, 1991 |newsgroup=rec.arts.sf-lovers |message-id=1991Aug18.215029.19421@eff.org |url= https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1991Aug18.215029.19421%40eff.org}}</ref> He stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in [[memetics]],<ref name="Godwin94" /> specifically to address the ubiquity of such comparisons which he believes regrettably [[Holocaust trivialization|trivialize]] the Holocaust.<ref>{{cite news |last=McFarlane |first=Andrew |title=Is it ever OK to call someone a Nazi? |work=[[BBC News Magazine]] |date=July 14, 2010 |url= https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10618638 |access-date=August 4, 2010}}</ref><ref>{{cite podcast |last1=Fishman |first1=Aleisa |last2=Godwin |first2=Mike |author2-link=Mike Godwin |title=Interview with Mike Godwin |work=Voices on Antisemitism |publisher=[[United States Holocaust Memorial Museum]] |date=September 1, 2011 |url= http://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/antisemitism-podcast/mike-godwin |url-status=dead |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20140520044036/http://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/antisemitism-podcast/mike-godwin |archive-date=May 20, 2014}}</ref> Later, it was applied to any [[Conversation threading|threaded online discussion]], such as [[Internet forum]]s, [[chat room]]s, and [[Social media|social-media]] comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other [[rhetoric]]<ref name="Goldacre 2010">{{cite web |last=Goldacre |first=Ben |title=Pope aligns atheists with Nazis. Bizarre. Transcript here. |work=bengoldacre – secondary blog |date=September 16, 2010 |url= http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/nazi-youth-pope-aligns-atheists-with-nazis-bi |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20130325005933/http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/nazi-youth-pope-aligns-atheists-with-nazis-bi |archive-date=March 25, 2013}}</ref><ref name="Hillary Putin">{{cite news |last=Stanley |first=Timothy |title=Hillary, Putin's no Hitler |department="Opinion" department |date=March 6, 2014 |work=[[CNN]] |url= https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/opinion/stanley-hillary-clinton-hitler/index.html |access-date=March 6, 2014}}</ref> where {{lang|la|[[reductio ad Hitlerum]]}} occurs. | Promulgated by the American attorney and author [[Mike Godwin]] in 1990,<ref name="Godwin94" /> Godwin's law originally referred specifically to [[Usenet newsgroup]] discussions.<ref name="Godwin 1991">{{cite newsgroup |last=Godwin |first=Mike |author-link=Mike Godwin |title=Re: Nazis (was Re: Card's Article on Homosexuality |date=August 18, 1991 |newsgroup=rec.arts.sf-lovers |message-id=1991Aug18.215029.19421@eff.org |url= https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1991Aug18.215029.19421%40eff.org}}</ref> He stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in [[memetics]],<ref name="Godwin94" /> specifically to address the ubiquity of such comparisons which he believes regrettably [[Holocaust trivialization|trivialize]] [[the Holocaust]].<ref>{{cite news |last=McFarlane |first=Andrew |title=Is it ever OK to call someone a Nazi? |work=[[BBC News Magazine]] |date=July 14, 2010 |url= https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10618638 |access-date=August 4, 2010}}</ref><ref>{{cite podcast |last1=Fishman |first1=Aleisa |last2=Godwin |first2=Mike |author2-link=Mike Godwin |title=Interview with Mike Godwin |work=Voices on Antisemitism |publisher=[[United States Holocaust Memorial Museum]] |date=September 1, 2011 |url= http://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/antisemitism-podcast/mike-godwin |url-status=dead |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20140520044036/http://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/antisemitism-podcast/mike-godwin |archive-date=May 20, 2014}}</ref> Later, it was applied to any [[Conversation threading|threaded online discussion]], such as [[Internet forum]]s, [[chat room]]s, and [[Social media|social-media]] comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other [[rhetoric]]<ref name="Goldacre 2010">{{cite web |last=Goldacre |first=Ben |title=Pope aligns atheists with Nazis. Bizarre. Transcript here. |work=bengoldacre – secondary blog |date=September 16, 2010 |url= http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/nazi-youth-pope-aligns-atheists-with-nazis-bi |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20130325005933/http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/nazi-youth-pope-aligns-atheists-with-nazis-bi |archive-date=March 25, 2013}}</ref><ref name="Hillary Putin">{{cite news |last=Stanley |first=Timothy |title=Hillary, Putin's no Hitler |department="Opinion" department |date=March 6, 2014 |work=[[CNN]] |url= https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/opinion/stanley-hillary-clinton-hitler/index.html |access-date=March 6, 2014}}</ref> where {{lang|la|[[reductio ad Hitlerum]]}} occurs. | ||
In 2012, ''Godwin's law'' became an entry in the third edition of the ''[[Oxford English Dictionary]]''.<ref>{{cite web |title=Godwin's law |work=[[Oxford English Dictionary]] |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |url= http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/340583?redirectedFrom=Godwin%27s+law#eid |access-date=February 27, 2013}}</ref> | In 2012, ''Godwin's law'' became an entry in the third edition of the ''[[Oxford English Dictionary]]''.<ref>{{cite web |title=Godwin's law |work=[[Oxford English Dictionary]] |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |url= http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/340583?redirectedFrom=Godwin%27s+law#eid |access-date=February 27, 2013}}</ref> | ||
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{{blockquote|I urge people to develop enough perspective to do it thoughtfully. If you think the comparison is valid, and you've given it some thought, do it. All I ask you to do is think about the human beings capable of acting very badly. We have to keep the magnitude of those events in mind, and not be glib. Our society needs to be more humane, more civilized and to grow up.}} | {{blockquote|I urge people to develop enough perspective to do it thoughtfully. If you think the comparison is valid, and you've given it some thought, do it. All I ask you to do is think about the human beings capable of acting very badly. We have to keep the magnitude of those events in mind, and not be glib. Our society needs to be more humane, more civilized and to grow up.}} | ||
In August 2017, while commenting on the [[Unite the Right rally]] in [[Charlottesville, Virginia]], Godwin himself endorsed and encouraged social-media users to compare its | In August 2017, while commenting on the [[Unite the Right rally]] in [[Charlottesville, Virginia]], Godwin himself endorsed and encouraged social-media users to compare its [[alt-right]] participants to Nazis.<ref>{{cite web |last=Gilbert |first=Alexandre |title=Godwin's Law & the Nazi Cosplay Hobbiysts |work=[[The Times of Israel]] |date=August 17, 2017 |url= http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/godwins-law-the-nazi-cosplay-hobbiysts/}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last=Mandelbaum |first=Ryan F. |title=Godwin of Godwin's Law: 'By All Means, Compare These Shitheads to the Nazis' |work=[[Gizmodo]] |date=August 13, 2017 |url= https://gizmodo.com/godwin-of-godwins-law-by-all-means-compare-these-shi-1797807646 |access-date=December 26, 2023}}</ref> | ||
In | Godwin has denied the need to update or amend the rule. In June 2018, he wrote, in an opinion piece for the ''[[Los Angeles Times]]'': "It still serves us as a tool to recognize specious comparisons to Nazism – but also, by contrast, to recognize comparisons that aren't."<ref name="LAT 2018-06" /> Additionally, when a potential subject of Godwin's law seems "intent on making the Hitler comparison",<ref name="washington post">{{cite news |author=Rampell, Catherine |date=September 24, 2024 |title=Trump gets compared with history's great villain because his rhetoric is that bad |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/09/24/trump-hitler-rhetoric-comparison/ |accessdate=September 24, 2024 |newspaper=[[The Washington Post]]}}</ref> the comparison with fascism may be appropriate rather than devaluing the argument; a "[[Make America Great Again|MAGA]]" corollary to the Law recognizes the pernicious embrace of Nazi-inspired tropes and phrases by the "alt-right". | ||
As an illustration, in an interview with ''[[Politico]]'' published on December 19, 2023, Godwin pointed out that Donald Trump might actually be using Hitler's rhetoric on purpose, for instance when accusing immigrants of “poisoning the blood” of the country or calling his political opponents “vermin”:<ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-12-19 |title=‘Trump Knows What He’s Doing’: The Creator of Godwin’s Law Says the Hitler Comparison Is Apt |url=https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427 |access-date=2025-09-19 |website=POLITICO}}</ref><blockquote>You could say the ‘vermin’ remark or the ‘poisoning the blood’ remark, maybe one of them would be a coincidence. But both of them pretty much make it clear that there’s something thematic going on, and I can’t believe it’s accidental.”</blockquote>In an opinion published the same day in ''[[The Washington Post]]'', Godwin stated: “Yes, it's okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don't let me stop you.”<ref>{{Cite news |last=McHugh |first=Calder |date=19 December 2023 |title='Trump Knows What He's Doing': The Creator of Godwin's Law Says the Hitler Comparison Is Apt |url=https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427 |work=Politico}}</ref> In the article, Godwin says that “when people draw parallels between [[Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign|Donald Trump’s 2024 candidacy]] and [[Adolf Hitler's rise to power|Hitler’s progression from fringe figure to Great Dictator]], we aren’t joking. Those of us who hope to preserve our democratic institutions need to underscore the resemblance before we enter the twilight of American democracy.”<ref>{{cite news |last1=Godwin |first1=Mike |title=Yes, it's okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don't let me stop you. |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/12/20/godwins-law-trump-hitler-comparisons/ |newspaper=[[The Washington Post]] |access-date=22 November 2024 |date=20 December 2023}}</ref> | |||
==See also== | ==See also== | ||
{{Portal|Internet}} | {{Portal|Internet}} | ||
* [[Association fallacy]] | * [[Association fallacy]] | ||
* [[Law of truly large numbers]] | * [[Law of truly large numbers]] | ||
* [[List of eponymous laws]] | * [[List of eponymous laws]] | ||
Latest revision as of 20:34, 13 November 2025
Template:Short description Template:Use American English Template:Use mdy dates Script error: No such module "Distinguish".
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Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule), short for Godwin's law of Nazi analogies,[1] is an Internet adage asserting: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."[2] The law’s creator, Mike Godwin, maintains these comparisons often trivialize the Holocaust. It is an example of the Script error: No such module "Lang". fallacy.
In 2021, Harvard researchers published an article showing that the Nazi-comparison phenomenon does not occur with statistically meaningful frequency in Reddit discussions.[3][4]
History
Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[1] Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[5] He stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics,[1] specifically to address the ubiquity of such comparisons which he believes regrettably trivialize the Holocaust.[6][7] Later, it was applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and social-media comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric[8][9] where Script error: No such module "Lang". occurs.
In 2012, Godwin's law became an entry in the third edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.[10]
Generalization, corollaries, and usage
Godwin's law can be applied mistakenly or abused as a distraction, a diversion, or even censorship, when miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole even when the comparison made by the argument is appropriate.[11] Godwin has criticized the over-application of the adage, claiming that it does not articulate a fallacy, but rather is intended to reduce the frequency of inappropriate and hyperbolic comparisons:[12]
<templatestyles src="Template:Blockquote/styles.css" />
Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.
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Godwin's law has many corollaries, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others. For example, many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums have a tradition that, when a Nazi or Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress.[13] This idea is itself sometimes mistakenly referred to as Godwin's law.[14]
Godwin rejects the idea that whoever invokes Godwin's law has lost the argument, and suggests that, applied appropriately, the rule "should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter."[15] In an interview with Time Magazine, Godwin said that making comparisons to Hitler would actually be appropriate under the right circumstances:[16]
<templatestyles src="Template:Blockquote/styles.css" />
I urge people to develop enough perspective to do it thoughtfully. If you think the comparison is valid, and you've given it some thought, do it. All I ask you to do is think about the human beings capable of acting very badly. We have to keep the magnitude of those events in mind, and not be glib. Our society needs to be more humane, more civilized and to grow up.
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In August 2017, while commenting on the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Godwin himself endorsed and encouraged social-media users to compare its alt-right participants to Nazis.[17][18]
Godwin has denied the need to update or amend the rule. In June 2018, he wrote, in an opinion piece for the Los Angeles Times: "It still serves us as a tool to recognize specious comparisons to Nazism – but also, by contrast, to recognize comparisons that aren't."[15] Additionally, when a potential subject of Godwin's law seems "intent on making the Hitler comparison",[19] the comparison with fascism may be appropriate rather than devaluing the argument; a "MAGA" corollary to the Law recognizes the pernicious embrace of Nazi-inspired tropes and phrases by the "alt-right".
As an illustration, in an interview with Politico published on December 19, 2023, Godwin pointed out that Donald Trump might actually be using Hitler's rhetoric on purpose, for instance when accusing immigrants of “poisoning the blood” of the country or calling his political opponents “vermin”:[20]
You could say the ‘vermin’ remark or the ‘poisoning the blood’ remark, maybe one of them would be a coincidence. But both of them pretty much make it clear that there’s something thematic going on, and I can’t believe it’s accidental.”
In an opinion published the same day in The Washington Post, Godwin stated: “Yes, it's okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don't let me stop you.”[21] In the article, Godwin says that “when people draw parallels between Donald Trump’s 2024 candidacy and Hitler’s progression from fringe figure to Great Dictator, we aren’t joking. Those of us who hope to preserve our democratic institutions need to underscore the resemblance before we enter the twilight of American democracy.”[22]
See also
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- Association fallacy
- Law of truly large numbers
- List of eponymous laws
- Nazi analogies
- Poe's law
- Script error: No such module "Lang".
- Straw man
- Thought-terminating cliché
References
Further reading
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External links
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