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Maintain {{WPBS}}: 4 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "Start" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 2 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Computing}}, {{WikiProject Technology}}. Keep 2 different ratings in {{WikiProject Computer science}}, {{WikiProject Systems}}. Remove 1 deprecated parameter: importance.

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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|
{{WikiProject Computing|importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Computer science|class=B|importance=high}}
{{WikiProject Technology}}
{{WikiProject Systems|class=B|importance=top}}
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== A few changes ==
I changed a few things, I:
* removed the pseudo-definition of programming, and replaced it by referring to the [[programming]] article;
* removed the "for computers" part, because system software is always for computers so there's no ambiguity to resolve;
* removed examples of systems software, because that's the job of the [[system software]] article and this article is strictly about _programming_ system software;
* removed the comment about SIC, which was irrelevant;
* removed the comment about logging and monitoring, because those things are in no way specific to systems programming;
* added some characteristics;
* presented the characteristics in list form, and changed the description of programming languages to more accurately reflect the actual criteria;
* made some minor additional changes.

-- [[User:Eelis.net|Eelis]] 23:05, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

==Proposed merge with System software==
:I disagree with the removal of debugging and logging. While it is not specific to system programming, it has somehow different role in system programming from that in application programming. Moreover, I proposed the merger of system programming and system software. The two articles are still fairly short and and I thought it is a kind of awkward to talk about how to do system programming without elucidating what is system software. -- [[User:TakuyaMurata|Taku]] 23:43, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

::I would be in favor of a merger, but can't seem to find your proposal (I'm pretty new around here). Could you provide a link? Thanks. -- [[User:Eelis.net|Eelis]] 23:53, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

:Because I forgot to add the tag: <nowiki>{{merge|system softwar}}</nowiki>. I should have not started working before morning coffee :) -- [[User:TakuyaMurata|Taku]] 23:59, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

The merge seems like a poor idea to me. "System software" is something that a computer user or operator might need to know about. Systems programming is something that a programmer or someone interested in programming might want to know about. Yes, one needs to know what System software is before one reads about how to create it, but that doesn't mean the articles should be merged. "System software" is understandable to the casual passer-by; programming isn't. Both articles can be expected to grow with time. -[[User:R. S. Shaw|R. S. Shaw]] 22:35, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

- I think that this article can have more applications. For example, i followed this link from the C reference library stdlib.h, searching for the system() function, that allows to interact with the operating system shell options

== system programmers and system administrators ==

I have been around computer systems for over 30 years and I see that most of the tasks today performed by [[system administrator]]s, especially on unix and unix-like systems, were once performed by systems programmers. The only difference is that in the old days, with mainframes and DEC 36 and 32 bit machines, a system "admin" had to know some programming to do his (or her, but they were almost exclusively men) job. Does anyone else agree with this? --[[User:Rogerd|rogerd]] 22:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree... I have added a section "Alternate Usage" to describe this. This is quite an important piece of information because the use of the term "systems programmer" to mean "system administrator" still appears in job postings, and that can cause confusion for job seekers. [[User:Tzadikv|Tzadik]] 23:23, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

== Vague definition, citation needed ==

A problematic article, I think.
There needs to be references to sources, and if there are multiple
multiple definitions (which I'm sure there are) they need to be adressed.
The article is not even consistent with itself: MacOs I/O Kit is the only example
of a post-C language used for systems programming, but whoever wrote that part
must have been thinking about kernel programming — C++, Java etc are widely used
for things which aren't application programming.
(And of course, splitting programming into "systems" and "application" leaves out
huge parts of the programming that happens, from shell scripts to Excel macros and Perl one-liners.).
[[User:Jgrahn|JöG]] ([[User talk:Jgrahn|talk]]) 22:13, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

== Alternative characterization ==

System programming logically can also mean programming a system of any kind, versus programming something that interacts (usually thru an API) with such a system. It's more of a virtual POV of what a "system" is. Whether you are dealing with a system might be whether other disparate programmers will rely upon what you are doing, and therefore you don't have the luxury of deciding if enough is enough optimization wise, because you do not know what the final application will be. Just one alternative take. --[[Special:Contributions/67.54.235.190|67.54.235.190]] ([[User talk:67.54.235.190|talk]]) 07:05, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Systems programming - Revision history