imported>Graham87: Graham87 moved page Talk:Language games/Talk to Talk:Language game without leaving a redirect: revert

2025-05-28T03:08:23Z

Graham87 moved page Talk:Language games/Talk to Talk:Language game without leaving a redirect: revert

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==Untitled==
Erm, why is there a "Part of a series on Philosophy of religion" sidebar here? -- [[User:Transitive Sam|Transitive Sam]]
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I'm not convinced that fanqie, the language game listed for Mandarin, counts as a game. Looking at the Wikipedia entry for it, it's more of a method of spelling things out phonetically than obscuring speech. I don't know too much about Fanqie, so if someone qualified on it can take a look, it'd help.

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What about theme based games? For example, discussing any single given topic (e.g., sunflowers) using automotive terminology in each sentence. How about the bad prose competition?
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Is ''useless language'' the proper term? It seems that there is a use for such "languages": to conceal conversation. -- [[User:Stephen Gilbert|Stephen Gilbert]]

I agree, if pig latin was used by the African American slaves, then it should not be called useless!

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swiped this from wikipedia "Useless language" which is now redirected to this plural-named (sorry) page(s)
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I don't think "language game" is the right place for this article, either--it is a technical term in philosophy, due to Wittgenstein. --[[User:LMS|LMS]]

# I agree. When I came to this article I was seeking what communication theorists and philosopher's mean by it, not funny things one can do to speech. The Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy has a nice little [[http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/ENTRY.html?subview=Main&entry=t98.e1339 definition]]. [[User:Reagle|Reagle]] 21:49, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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Again, I'm thinking that "language game" isn't the right name for this concept--can someone research this? The term is has a well-established meaning in philosophy, due to Wittgenstein, and I think in critical theory too. --[[User:LMS|LMS]]
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Hi, I removed "as a weak form of cryptography" because a) it didn't make the text easier to read and b) I mostly think of cryptography as written (digital or analog, words, letters or bits), not spoken (that's just the connotation "-graphy" has in my brain). Please don't think of this as vandalism. I added some swedish language games as well. -- Anon. newbie (I'll get a real name someday...)

== speech disguise? ==

My phonology textbook (Kenstowicz 1994) uses the term "speech disguise" for the second sense of "language game" on this page. I got a bunch of google results with similar uses. We could move the stuff on Pig Latin and such to [[Speech disguise]] and reserve this page for the Wittgensteinian concept (with a pointer to the other page, of course). --[[User:Chrajohn|Chris]] 21:24, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

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Er... I think we all agree, this article is way off.

Wittgenstein was saying that all languages were language games (1), and actually making a claim about truth, logic and language in general. It's a behaviorist's account of meaning that dodges some of the problems Frege and Russell ran into when they revised Aristotelian logic. These specialized accounts of games with language kinda miss all the relevance of his theory. I don't have time for an article tonight, nor am I really enough of an authority here, but I'll see if I can't get someone to write/help me write a wholesale replacement here.

(1) In the IEP's entry on Wittgenstein, language games are first introduced with a definition in a parenthetical, like so: "Wittgenstein wants his reader not to think (too much) but to look at the "language games" (any practices that involve language) that give rise to philosophical (personal, existential, spiritual) problems."

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I moved the linguistics portion to [[language game (linguistics)]], changed [[language game]] to a disambiguation page, and redirected [[language game (philosophy)]] to [[language-game]] to make room for a longer article on Wittgenstein's concept of a language-game (the article is in progress). I'm not qualified to judge the linguistics portion of the article, so I've left that alone. The majority of the changes to the page appear to be to that section of it, so someone should probably revert [[language game]] to its pre-disambiguation changes, rename it to [[language game (linguistics)]] and add back the disambiguation text to [[language game]]. --[[User:Mesveldt|Michael Esveldt]]

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Surely "Anytwo up five elevenis?" (instead of "Anytwo up for elevenis?")
I don't know this language game though, so I don't feel authorized to make the change.

==Isn't [[language game]] a type of [[word game]]?==

If so, this article and this category could be recategorized in accordance. [[User:Adam78|Adam78]] 00:15, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

: I don't think so, language games are really more like spoken ciphers than games. They aren't really played, they're spoken.  –[[User:Benjaminb|Benjamin]]  ([[User talk:Benjaminb|talk]])  17:00, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

==Classification==
IMO the '''Classification''' section is somewhat weak - surely more patterns are discernible among the vast list of examples than this discussion has brought to light? Also, I seem to recall (but cannot verify) that '''language games''' (aka '''secret speech''') with more complex rules than any of those listed do exist. For example, a variant of '''Dong''', which might be called '''Ding Dong Dang''' (but I haven't heard it named), goes like this:
: English - Ding Dong Dang - Spelling out words, using plain vowel sounds and '-ing', '-ong', '-ang' alternating in strict rotation after each consonant. "Let's go" = "Ling ee tong sang, ging oh." [[User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|yoyo]] 06:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I wonder whether the term '''cant''' covers this sense of the phrase '''language game'''? It's used in the article to describe one form of '''secret speech''' as '''a butcher's cant'''. At any rate, I suggest '''cant''' as an alternative name for this page. [[User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|yoyo]] 15:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

== Remove Info ==

Yardle Bardle isn't followed up by anything, it may exsist but theres no point if it has no information to give. —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Biggofwi|Biggofwi]] ([[User talk:Biggofwi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Biggofwi|contribs]]) 03:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

== List of Common Language Games ==

I'm new at editing, and would like to add a language to the list of examples. First of all, is this allowed? If so, I can't figure out how to get my addition into the table format shown in the article. Anybody have any tips? [[User:Alphadalpha|Alphadalpha]] 05:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:This may come a bit late, but it depends if it's constructive or not. Copy the section beginning with "|-" to the next "|-", replace the names and descriptions with your own and insert it on the proper place in the edit mode being constructive :-). —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/80.186.197.159|80.186.197.159]] ([[User talk:80.186.197.159|talk]]) 14:43, 17 March 2009 (UTC) 

==Uvgum==
Uvgum ..... I seem to know many speakers.

It involves splitting words into syllables and inserting "vg" before the vowel sound, so "I dislike your bicycle" becomes "IvgI dvgis lvgike yvgour bvgi cvgi cvgle"
[[User:163.1.42.6|163.1.42.6]] 12:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Tom 15/2/07

== -izn ==
For consideration. Similar to (and predecessor of) the -izzle stylistic language game of [[AAVE]]. Examples: shit -> shiznit, fries -> friznies (this one from [[Dee Barnes]]). Probably most common nowadays as a way of forming [[minced oath]]s (as in first example) -- see also biznatch / biznitch, etc. Seemingly only used on one-syllable words. - [[Special:Contributions/65.203.234.66|65.203.234.66]] ([[User talk:65.203.234.66|talk]]) 16:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

This and other forms can all be traced to the same source-- Frankie Smith's Children of Tomorrow album-- specifically to two songs "Double Dutch Bus" and "Slang Thang." —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Moocho|Moocho]] ([[User talk:Moocho|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moocho|contribs]]) 13:10, 10 April 2009 (UTC) 
:Sorry, but none of this can be included in the article unless you can provide a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:Rjanag|rʨanaɢ]] [[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]] 13:16, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== renaming proposal ==

I'd like to rename this page, 'language game' is well-sourced as a philosophical concept, and I don't see any sourcing for its use in this context - isn't there a better phrase for things like pig latin? maybe this should be lumped as a section in [[code]]? --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|Ludwigs2]] 19:14, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

:"Language game" to describe this sort of phenomenon is really the only term used in linguistics to describe it, so it wouldn't make much sense to rename this article. One could add a section for the term's use in philosophy. [[User:Auvon|Auvon]] ([[User talk:Auvon|talk]]) 17:56, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

== Philosophy of religion ==

As with a user above, I can't see why this article is 'part of a series on the philosophy of religion', especially as the article makes no reference to its religious relevance apart from the box in question. Can anyone enlighten us and perhaps add something about religion to the article? [[User:PamukSoundystem|PamukSoundystem]] ([[User talk:PamukSoundystem|talk]]) 16:32, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

== Missing Language ==

There appears to be a "language" missing. My Mom was very facile with Alfalfa Language. I have found some references and rules on the Internet. I have run across a number of people who have heard of or were familiar with and used the "language". Shouldn't that be included here? Also shouldn't there be a listing on the Alfalfa disambiguation page? Also, since there are articles for other "languages" such as Pig Latin and Ubbi Dubbi shouldn't there be one on Alfalfa Language? [[User:Quisizyx|Quisizyx]] ([[User talk:Quisizyx|talk]]) 23:54, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== Urdu ==

بولو [[Special:Contributions/39.62.42.168|39.62.42.168]] ([[User talk:39.62.42.168|talk]]) 06:56, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Language game - Revision history

imported>Graham87: Graham87 moved page Talk:Language games/Talk to Talk:Language game without leaving a redirect: revert