View source for Wiki143:WikiProject Arena Football League/Notability

{{WikiProject notability advice|sort-by=Arena Football League}}
{{nutshell|This page sets guidelines of notability for all things related to [[College football]] and includes common arguments encountered during notability discussions on college football related articles.}}

{{details|Wikipedia:Notability}}
{{details|Wikipedia:WikiProject Arena Football League/Style Guide}}


The '''WikiProject Arena Football League Notability guidelines''' aim to promote the creation of high-quality articles about [[arena football]] teams and related topics.  

Wikipedia contains many articles on topics related to college football. These guidelines are not meant to be all-inclusive. As in all things, in order for an article to exist on Wikipedia, there should be [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] of information and the article cannot be [[WP:NOR|original research]]. Articles must be written in a [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] and not overly complimentory or derogatory to the team or topic.

==Organizations==
===Associations===
Associations that govern and otherwise help organize arnea football are notable. This includes their history, present state, and leadership.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Organization
! Abbreviation
! Notes
|-
| [[Arena Football League]] || ''AFL'' || Formed in 1987, currently fields 17 teams.
|-
| [[af2|Arena Football 2]] || ''af2'' || Formed in 2002, is a [[minor league]] to the AFL.
|-
|}

This is not intended to be a complete list.

===Teams===
Organizations that participate in arena football and are members of the [[Arena Football League]] or [[af2]] are considered notable. Participation may be past, present, and/or planned in the future.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Qualification
! Team (Example)
! Notes
|-
| ''[[Football Bowl Subdivision|NCAA Division I FBS]] ||'' [[Florida Gators football]] || Previously known as "Division I-A"
|-
| ''[[Football Championship Subdivision|NCAA Division I FCS]]'' || [[Appalachian State Mountaineers football|Appalachian State]] || Previously known as "Division I-AA"
|-
| ''[[NCAA Division II]]'' || [[Abilene Christian University]] ||
|-
| ''[[NCAA Division III]]'' || [[United States Coast Guard Academy]] ||
|-
| ''[[NAIA]]'' || [[Malone College Athletics|Malone College]] ||  Has 287 member institutions for the 2007-08 academic year, may include schools from Canada
|-
| ''defunct college programs'' || [[University of Texas at Arlington]], [[New York University Violets]] || ''School must be a current or former member of NCAA or NAIA''
|-
| ''closed schools that had programs'' || [[College of Emporia Football|College of Emporia]] ||  ''School must have been a member of the NCAA or NAIA if available.  If school closed before NCAA or NAIA were created, the school must have shown regular play against other notable football programs''
|-
| ''future college football programs'' || [[Georgia State University|Georgia State]] || Georgia State will begin play at the Division I Championship Subdivision (I-AA) level in 2010 ([http://www.georgiastatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12700&KEY=&SPID=5671&SPSID=53624 Georgia State Sports]).  ''The school must officially announce it will begin a program in either the NAIA or NCAA.''
|}

====Common arguments encountered-teams====
The following are some of the common arguments against the notability of a team.

'''Too Small:'''  ''It's too small of a school to be notable''

:The Short Answer:  [[Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#This number is big or not big enough|This number is big or not big enough]]

:The "size" of the school does not disqualify for notability. Many small colleges are proving grounds for coaches that go on to great fame.  When [[Glenn Scobey Warner|Pop Warner]] started coaching at [[University of Georgia|Georgia]], there were only 126 students enrolled.

:Notability discussions about a college football team should be centered around the ''team'' and not the ''college'' (or university).  If the number of students enrolled in the school would be a deciding factor of notability, then what would be that cutoff point?  5,000 students?  Why not 4,999?

'''It's only an [[NAIA]] School:'''  ''NAIA schools are not notable, only NCAA schools count (or NCAA Division I, etc.)''

:This was heavily discussed early on in the project development.  Through the growth of the project, it was discovered that coaches may start at an NAIA School and then work through the ranks to other divisions.  [[Dennis Franchione]], [[Jerry Kill]], and [[Harold Elliott]] are a few examples.  This discovery led to the conclusion that the research value of including the NAIA schools outweighed any borderline notability issues that may arise.

:There also have been many significant programs in the NAIA.  [[College of Emporia Football|College of Emporia]] was one of the first schools to regularly call the [[forward pass]] and [[Halfback option play|halfback option]].

:Other discussions involved the project name:  the "Wikipedia:WikiProject College football" -- which includes, by definition, all colleges.  The project is not "Wikipedia:WikiProject NCAA Football" or "Wikipedia:WikiProject NCAA Division I FBS football" but encompasses all of college.

:Further, the NAIA did not form until 1937, and some schools move from NAIA to NCAA ([[Emporia State University]] and [[Washburn University]] are examples).  So do we consider only the time periods in the NCAA, or the entire history of the program, or only programs currently in the NCAA, or any program that ever was in the NCAA?

:NAIA schools will, at times, play an NCAA school.  One example is the [[Victory Bowl]], which may place an NAIA team against an NCAA team.  It is not uncommon for Division III schools to play an NAIA school currently, and in the history of the NAIA it would be even more common.

:Finally, as of 2008 there are "rumblings" in the media of the NAIA and NCAA merging, as reported in [http://chronicle.com/weekly/v54/i37/37a01501.htm The Chronicle of Higher Education].  

:The consensus of the project is to include NAIA as well as all NCAA division programs in the project.

'''Program Does Not Exist:''' ''The school doesn't have a football program anymore/the school does not exist anymore''

:The Short Answer:  [[Wikipedia:Notability#Notability is not temporary|Notability is not temporary]].

:Many historical achievements in the sport occurred at schools that are either now closed or simply discontinued their football program.  
:# [[Homer Woodson Hargiss]] is one of the early developers of the [[Forward Pass]] and [[Halfback option play]]--while coaching at the [[College of Emporia]], a school that closed in 1972.  
:# [[Amos Alonzo Stagg]] coached many years at [[University of the Pacific (United States)|Pacific]], which no longer has football, 
:# [[Bill Parcells]] played at [[Wichita State University]], which discontinued their football program in 1986.

:Closing the school or ceasing the program of a once notable program does not diminish the historical notability of the program.  [[George Washington]] has been dead a long time too, but we still have an article on him.

'''Football is stupid:'''  ''Football is meaningless and has no academic value, why not write about a professor who makes a difference?''

:The Short Answer:  [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]].

:The beneifts of leadership and self-development skills from college sports is well-documented.  For example, [[Harvard University]] has a very active athletic program.  But even if they did not, many of the most respected schools do have athletic programs and there is a good deal of media support to back that up.

====Junior College/Club/Intramural====
Wikiproject College Football does not include junior college football, club football, or intramural football programs. At the present time, this is primarily due to a lack of interest but also due to notability concerns. Should interest in junior college football reach the point that articles begin to be created, a Junior College task force may be created. For similar reasons, schools that play intercollegiate football outside the NCAA or NAIA (such as [[Sprint Football]] or club teams) or [[Intramural sports|intramural football]] teams are not covered by the project, nor are they considered notable, except in instances where there are extenuating circumstances.

:''There is a [[List of NCAA Institutions with club football teams]] and a [[List of community college football programs]].''

====Junior Varsity====
Junior-varsity (JV) teams are not considered notable. Articles about Division I JV teams playing NAIA teams are considered notable, but junior varsity college players, coaches, teams, and normal games—unless there are extenuating circumstances—are not considered notable.

====Non-college teams that played a college team====
In the early days of college football, it was common practice for a high school team, a military team, or even a city club to play a college football team. The games themselves may be notable and under the aegis of this project, as in [[1892 Wyoming Seminary vs. Mansfield State Normal football game]]. However, football teams not considered a part of a college or university are not covered by the project and are not considered notable under it.

====Canadian Colleges====
Colleges that play a team in [[Canada]] may or may not be covered under this project.  There are a handful of colleges in Canada that participate in the [[National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics|NAIA]], and thereby would be involved in this project.  Colleges that compete in [[CIS football]] under the [[Canadian Interuniversity Sport]] governing body are not a part of this project--[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian football]] has taken responsibility for those teams.  This project applauds their efforts.

There are some "crossover" colleges (such as [[University of Victoria]]) where teams play in both NAIA and CIS.  In such cases, both projects work together with the Canadian efforts taking the lead.

==Special Events==
===Single Seasons===
Season articles (e.g. [[2005 USC Trojans football team]]) are considered notable for all schools that participate in college football and are members of the National Collegiate Athletic Association or the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics.

Seasons can also be grouped together into articles, depending on available content and interest.  An example is [[LSU Tigers football, 1893-1899]].
====Common arguments encountered-seasons====
'''Every team's season does not deserve an article:''' ''Wikipedia does not need individual pages for every season of every team.''

:The Short Answer: Why not? (But it's probably not going to happen...)

We agree that content should be of high quality.  Many team individual season pages are well-assembled and often used, such as [[2005 Texas Longhorn football team]].  Others may call for a grouping of seasons by decade or coach's tenure, depending on the content.  While the seasons themselves are notable, oftentimes multiple seasons are combined into one article.

Still other schools may not have editors enthusiastic about creating season-by-season pages and may simply have a football team page, an athletic page, or even just an entry on the school's page.  Wikipedia is far from complete.

====Single Season Notability Discussion Library====
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1906 Auburn Tigers football team]]
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1902 LSU Tigers football team]]

===Single Games===
Varsity regular season, conference championship games, and bowl games are considered notable for all schools that participate in college football and are members of the National Collegiate Athletic Association or the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics.  Junior varsity games are not notable.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Qualification
! Example
! Notes
|-
| Regular season game
| [[2005 Texas vs. Ohio State football game]]
| the first-ever meeting between The University of Texas at Austin and The Ohio State University in a college football game.
|-
| Conference championship game
| [[Big 12 Championship Game]]
| A general article about the annual game in the [[Big 12 Conference]].  Specific game pages would also be notable.
|-
| Specific bowl game
| [[2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl]]
| Georgia 31, Virginia Tech 24
|-
| Bowl game general page
| [[Rose Bowl (game)]]
| First game played [[January 1]], [[1902]] between Michigan and Stanford.
|-
| Defunct bowl game general page
| [[Boot Hill Bowl]]
| [[National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics|NAIA]] post-season bowl game played from 1970 to 1980.
|}

====Common arguments encountered-games====

'''Too Many:'''  ''Every team, every game?  With over 300 teams with ten games a season over 100 season, that's 300,000 games!''

:The Short Answer:  So what?  Notable is notable.

:First of all, the total number of games played is not the number of teams multiplied by the number of games, it would be half that because two teams come together to make one game.  Still, the project acknowledges that could result in a very large number of articles.

:Second, who cares?  If the game is notable, then it is notable.  Just because there are other games does not take away from the uniqueness of the particular game played.  Having a large number of different games does not negate the notability of the specific game played.

:Third, the project consensus is that when two notable organizations meet (opposing teams) for a notable activity (college football) in a notable location (the stadium) for the expressed purpose that the organizations exist (to win football games) the result is a unique notable event.

:Fourth (and finally) the project does not expect to create an article on each and every game, we merely allow for the article to be created and have established guidelines on how to do so.

'''This Game/That Game:'''  ''There is no article on College A vs College B, why should we have an article on College C vs College D?''

:The Short Answer:  [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]]

:Essentially, this is not a valid argument of comparison.  While it can be ''useful'' to look at other articles on Wikipedia, it is not an infallable tool.  One missing article does not make an existing article bad.

====Single Game Notability Discussion Library====
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Georgia Tech 222, Cumberland 0]]

===Special Plays===
A "play" in college football refers to one particular session or down, and the specific orders given to the players.  Sometimes these orders are executed exactly, and sometimes improvisation takes over and conclude different than intended.  Normal plays such as the [[Kickoff (American football)|kickoff]] or [[Screen pass|screen pass]] are standard plays and are considered notable because they are such a core part of the game.  Many of these plays are actually a part of our parent project [[Wikipedia:WikiProject American football]] and may be shared with other projects such as [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby league]].

While a general play may be notable, not every application of that play is considered notable.  For example, the [[Forward pass|forward pass]] is certainly notable as an integral part of the game, but every time the forward pass is used would not warrant an article on that specific play.

That said, college football generates unique plays from time to time.  Some of these plays are analyzed and reviewed and referenced throughout the ages.  [[The Play]] is one example, which is a part of the category ''American football plays.''  These plays gain notability through their uniqueness.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Category
! Example
! Notes
|-
| General play commonly used
| [[Kickoff (American football)]]
| You can't start a game without one!
|-
| [[Trick play]]
| [[Statue of Liberty play|Statue of Liberty]]
| Uses deception and unorthodox strategies to fool the opposing team.
|-
| Outdated plays that are rarely used but were once common
| [[Drop kick]]
| Last reported use was in 1990.
|-
| Once used play, now against rules
| [[Pyramid Play]]
| The NCAA decided to ban the use of the play upon the conclusion of the 1933 season and the ruling is still in effect.
|-
| Specific play with a unique result
| [[The Play]]
|  A last-second kickoff return during a college football game between the University of California Golden Bears and the Stanford University Cardinal on November 20, 1982.
|}

===Awards===
Major national college football awards and their recipients are considered notable.  A list of the major college awards can be found on the [[Template:College Football Awards]]. Note that conference awards, including All-conference team selections, are '''not''' automatically considered notable.

===Marching Bands===
Marching bands are typically considered part of the pageantry of college football.  However, there is a wonderful team at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Marching band]] that is taking care of all marching band issues.  We refer to their project as "living across the street" from ours. Marching bands are '''not''' typically considered part of Wikiproject College football. 

There are times when the marching band and the football game have interacted. [[The Play]] is one specific example.  On those occasions, we coordinate with the related project (in this case, the band).

===Other Events===
General pageantry and special events dealing with college football outside of the game itself are typically listed on the page of the college hosting the event. In the rare instance that the event is notable enough to support a standalone page, it may fall under the aegis of the College Football Wikiproject. If the event was founded to promote a college football team or to commemorate a particular game, consider it a part of the project. The [[Aggie Bonfire]] is one such example.

== Lists ==
:''For more details see the essay [[Wikipedia:Lists in Wikipedia]]''

Due to the nature of college football and the fact that the subject is underrepresented on Wikipedia, it may be preferable to present information in list format. List topics are notable if they deal with a school, individual, football conference, or other organization that is itself notable under the guidelines listed on this page. No list describing an aspect of a non-notable subject can be notable. Notable subjects can have non-notable lists, however. Editors are advised to use their judgment when composing list-style information. An article entitled [[List of Maryland Terrapins football fans]] will not be notable. A list entitled [[Maryland Terrapins NFL Draft picks]], on the other hand, will be notable.

==Individuals==
{{details|Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons}}
===Players===
Wikipedia Notability states, ''"Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports and meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them are considered notable."''

For the college football project, we interpret this to include players that:
* went on to play in the [[National Football League|NFL]], [[American Football League|AFL]], or [[Canadian Football League|CFL]] (or other comparable professional leagues)
* went on to be a head coach in the [[National Football League|NFL]], [[American Football League|AFL]], or [[Canadian Football League|CFL]] (or other comparable professional leagues)
* were inducted into the [[College Football Hall of Fame]]
* won major national awards such as the [[Heisman Trophy]], [[Outland Trophy]], [[Wuerffel Trophy]], [[Doak Walker Award]], or other similar trophy
* completed a special noteworthy play or achievement
* otherwise achieve notability outside of college football.

{| class="wikitable"
! Qualification  !! Player !! Notes
|-
| ''...went on to play in the [[National Football League]]'' || [[Troy Aikman]], [[Marcus Allen]] || Both had illustrious NFL careers
|-
| ''...went on to play in the [[American Football League]]'' || [[Curtis McClinton]] || Signed with the [[Kansas City Chiefs|Dallas Texans]] (later the Kansas City Chiefs)
|-
| ''...went on to play in the [[Canadian Football League]]'' || [[Kaye Vaughan]] || Played for the [[Ottawa Rough Riders]] for twelve seasons
|-
| ''...went on to coach in the [[National Football League]]'' || [[Bill Parcells]] || He played at [[Wichita State University]]
|-
| ''...inducted in the [[College Football Hall of Fame]]'' || [[Earl Abell]], [[Alex Agase]], [[Harry Agganis]] || Three of many inductees
|-
| ''...won a major award'' || [[Roger Staubach]], [[Pete Dawkins]] || both won the [[Heisman Trophy]]
|-
| ''...completed a special noteworthy play or achievement'' || [[Daniel Ruettiger]] || subject of film ''[[Rudy (film)|Rudy]]''
|-
| ''...achieve notability outside of college football'' || [[Ronald Reagan]], [[Gerald R. Ford]] || Former US Presidents who played college football
|}

However, this does not mean that every player on every team should have an article. Before creating an article on an individual player, consider what makes them notable for an article and whether there are sufficient sources available to write a good article.  Articles on living or recently deceased players must conform to [[WP:BLP|the policy on biographies of living persons]].

====Common arguments encountered-players====
The following are some of the common arguments encountered against notability of a college football player.

'''Non-Notable:''' ''The player does not meet WP:BIO''

:The Short Answer:  Please read [[WP:BIO]] a little more carefully.

:As of this writing, WP:BIO states "Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports (who meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them)."  Players at the collegiate level can meet this notability requirement based on secondary sources published about their playing career.

'''The player is a bench-warmer''' ''The athlete does not play or hasn't played very much.''

:The Short Answer: [[Wikipedia:Notability/Historical/Arguments#Specialist topics are often not notable in the sense of being well known|Specialist Topics are often not well known]]

:Notability in college football normally comes from being an active player, but it is not the only way a player can become notable.  There may be other reasons for notability of a "specialist topic" within college football.  [[Katie Hnida]] and [[Daniel Ruettiger]] are examples of players with little playing time but accomplishing a unique or noteworthy place in college football.

:Another example is [[Tim Tebow]].  During his freshman year, there were two attempts to delete his page as "non-notable" but those who followed college football closely picked up on the effort.  The members of this project fought and kept the article because it was widely accepted among the community that this particular player would rapidly become widely known (and was already notable among specialists), even though the general population was not aware of the player at the time.  While it is true that "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" (see [[WP:CRYSTALBALL]]), this was a case where the college football specialists were able to sort out the importance of keeping an article when the general population of editors were unable to do so.

'''Every player does not deserve an article:''' ''There are too many players and pages throughout history for every college football player to have an article on Wikipedia.''

:The Short Answer: Agreed, but so what?  See [[WP:EVERYTHING]]

:Wikipedia should not be about everything, yes.  That does not mean that a particular college football player may not be notable.  WP:Everything states that the Wikipedia community ''has decided not to document every verifiable fact and accordingly has established notability guidelines on what should be kept.''

:This means that not every college football player should have an article--but that also does not translate into an argument that any given article about a college football player should be deleted.  Because there may be a question about notability, there should be a specific reason to delete or not to delete.

:This project has found that one editor's "everything" argument is another editor's "surmountable problem" (see below).

'''No information:''' ''The article is really short and has no information.''

:The Short Answer:  [[Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Surmountable problems|Surmountable problem]] and {{[[Template:Sofixit]]}}

:As the ''Surmountable Problem'' essay states, "even a poor article can be of benefit, and not so bad that Wikipedia is better off without it."  Unless the article is harmful in some way, it likely should be improved instead of deleted.  So fix it!

'''No value to society''' ''It is a shame society places so much value on football, when educators like (your favorite college professor) go unnoticed.''

:The Short Answer:  [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]]

:Where one editor may want to work on academic-related articles, others may choose to work on athletic related articles.  Yes, society and the news media place more emphasis on sports than academics.  This project (and Wikipedia in general) recognizes that fact as an indicator of notability.

:"Contribution to society" is not the only test for notability.

'''Too long ago''' ''This player hasn't done anything since college, and that was a long time ago''

:The Short Answer: [[Wikipedia:Notability/Historical/Arguments#Notability is not temporary|Notability is not temporary]]

:If a player was notable in the 1950s (such as [[Heisman Trophy]] winner [[Pete Dawkins]]) and did little if anything after college football, that does not negate their contribution to college football.  There is no need to show continual coverage after the period of noteworthy achievement occurred.

'''Just an NAIA player''' ''This player only played for an NAIA school and is not notable''

:The Short Answer:  Being an NAIA player does not "disqualify" from notability.

:Just being an NAIA player does not make that player "non-notable" -- there are many NAIA players that have gone on to professional football ([[Derrick Ward]]), become notable head coaches ([[Jerry Kill]]), or otherwise met notability requirements.  If the player is notable, they deserve an article.

'''Nothing on Google''' ''I did a Google search and can't find much of anything on this player''

:The Short Answer:  [[WP:GOOGLEHITS]]

:[[Google]] and other [[search engines]] are useful tools in determining notability, but are not the only rule.  Even for modern-day players, it is highly unlikely that a first-round draft pick at [[offensive line]] will be written about through traditional news and web channels.

====Player Notability Discussion Library====
*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Crane]]
*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Tebow]]
*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Tebow (2nd nomination)]]
*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bryan Pata]]
*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scooter Berry]]
*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maurice Lloyd]]

===Coaches===
Our project considers all head coaches (past and present) of notable college football programs to be notable.  Notable college football programs are further defined as [[NCAA]] (Division I FBS, Division I FCS, Division II, and Division III) and [[NAIA]] programs.   This notability holds true provided that they coached a team for at least one official game.

We know that there are those who think this is an abuse of notability and do not like that it will create many stub articles.  It also can be opposed by the "Notability is inherited" argument.  However, there is a good deal of reasoning for this stance--enough, we believe, to outweigh any inherited notability issues.

# Researchers on college football find it helpful to view what a peer coach had done in the same school, conference, or league--even if only for one season.
# For most schools, the head football coach is oftentimes the most well-known (and highest paid) member of the faculty of that school--more than the college president, athletic director, dean of students, or head of the math department. 
# For just about any college, a significant amount of the media coverage is about the major sports program (football, basketball, etc.). 
# The information is notable because statistics on the program are compiled and maintained across all time, and are readily available from multiple sources both on and off the internet.
# As our research grows, we find more and more coaches "inter-connect" between colleges.  They may start at one school, then take a coaching position at another, and end up at a third or fourth school.  [[Harold Elliott]] is just one of many examples of articles that started out as just such a stub article and has grown to a robust article. 
# Creating even a stub article promotes collaborative editing over time.  Coaches move on to new schools, editors become enthusiastic about their new coach, historical information surfaces, and so forth.
# This criterion (and subsequent "inherited notability") ensures that the project coverage of college football coaches will be complete.  It also prevents "redlining" in the coach's navbox that is standard for each coach page.

====Common arguments encountered-coaches====
The following are some of the common arguments encountered against notability of a head coach.

'''Does not meet standards:''' ''The subjects do not meet any part of WP:BIO''

:The Short Answer:  Please read [[WP:BIO]] a little more carefully.

:As of this writing, WP:BIO states "Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports (who meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them)."  Head coaches at the collegiate level meet the notability requirement.

'''No Team Article:'''  ''The team which they managed does not even have its own article.  Surely if the team they managed was anyway notable it'd have its own article.''

:The Short Answer:  [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]]

:Wikipedia is far from complete.  The absence of a "team" article at any given time does not negate the need for a coach article for the team.

'''Sources Unreliable''':  ''The articles contain no citations from reliable sources, which are required under the verifiability policy.  One editor stated, "Note that cfbdatawarehouse.com cannot be considered a reliable source - it is merely a college football enthusiast site. I would expect to see news coverage or similar, secondary sources."''

:The Short Answer:  [[Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/Reliable Sources]]

:This project will often use the [http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/ College Football Data Warehouse] as it is considered a reliable source.  This database is linked to many, many pages on Wikipedia for statisitics and biographical information.  Not only has this website has proven time and again to be a reliable source of information, but it is maintained by an established expert on the topic and is relevant to the field.

:Also, this particular website (and others like it) are used to pull ''statistical'' data, not opinion or point-of-view.  The "reliability of source" test does not need to be as stringent for facts as compared to opinion.

:We also will reference the school website itself for historical data on coaching changes, records history, coaching tenure, etc.  We contend that there is no better source than the school itself for information on who the coach is at any given time.

'''Too Long Ago''': ''This happened too long ago, there isn't any way to verify it online.

:The Short Answer: [[Wikipedia:Notability/Historical/Arguments#Notability cannot be measured for some historical and international topics|Notability cannot be measured for some historical topics]]

:This argument is made from time to time on historical college football data.  Football scores from 1910 don't make today's newspapers very often, so we rely more on "enthusiast" websites, college historical data, and offline sources.

:Also, there is a difference between "verifiable" and "verified" -- Many times the information is verifiable thorugh off-line resources but may not be available on the internet.

'''This coach is too obscure''' ''No one has ever heard of this guy, he's only coached at a small school.''

:The Short Answer: [[Wikipedia:Notability/Historical/Arguments#Specialist topics are often not notable in the sense of being well known|Specialist Topics are often not well known]]

:Notability does not necessarily arrive from being widely known, but can also arrive from the importance or uniqueness in the field.  Generally, college football teams only have one coach at a time (there are rare instances of dual coaches, but then that is considered even more notable).  As an example, even though [[Oscar Dahlene]] only coached for one year at a small college in Kansas, he was the only coach that year of that school.  As a consequence, he was the only coach with his team's schedule--the only coach to play the teams he played, that year in that order.  

:This unique information is of great importance to those who study college football history.

'''Lousy Coach:'''  ''The coach never won a game or hardly ever won a game''

:A coach having a "losing record" does not disqualify for notability.  Notability requirements on Wikipedia specifically state that notability can come from an especially poor performance (such as [[Vinko Bogataj]], the "agony of defeat").  Inside college football, we see [[Jake High]] (one scoreless 0-8 season), [[Ronald Beard]] (0-44 over 4 seasons), and [[George Allen (Cumberland)]] (who coached only one game and was defeated 222 to zero) as notable examples of coaches with exceptionally poor performances.

'''It's about the team, not the coach:'''  ''The statistics are about the team results, not the coach''

:Like it or not, at the college level football teams are grouped and judged under the coach, and the coach is judged, hired, and fired based on the results of the team.

'''No History Needed:'''  ''Maybe the current coach should be listed, but certainly the coach from a long time ago is not notable.''

:The Short Answer:  [[Wikipedia:Notability#Notability is not temporary|Notability is not temporary]].

:The argument raises several quesitons:  does this mean that the editor agrees that the current coach is notable, but then will become "non-notable" when that coach leaves the post--forcing deletion of the page? And if not, all the previous coaches were at one time the "current coach" -- so if holding the post is notable, then why would "no longer holding the post" suddenly and automatically make them not notable?

'''The article is too short'''  ''There is really no information with this, it's just a stub.''

:The Short Answer: Review [[Wikipedia:Stub]]

:Stub articles are an important part of Wikipedia.  Most articles get their start as stubs, and many stay as stubs for a very long time--maybe for all time.  Once a stub article has been created, other editors will also be able to enhance it.

'''Academic Standards''' ''We should hold coaches to the same academic standard we hold teachers to--the coach must be widely published.''

:The Short Answer:  Compare to [[Wikipedia:Notability (academics)]] -- A game can be considered the athletic equivalent to an academic published paper.

:Some would argue that it is ridiculous to compare a football game to an academic paper.  Bear in mind that even some of the smallest colleges and universities have stadium capacities of 3,000 or more, and many academic papers have a readership of much less than that.  Also, every major category from NCAA to NAIA have peer review rankings of the team on a week-by-week basis as well as pre-season and post-season rankings.  Not only do the peers (sportswriters and other coaches) review each game performance with scrutiny, they actually rank which team they believe to be better than the other.  Academic papers tend to have less scrutiny and typically do not have such a competitive ranking on quality.

:In modern times, college football teams generally play at least ten game seasons.  This means that there are eleven total teams involved for a given season (ten opponents plus the team itself).  We contend that each game is the industry equivalent to an academically published paper.  Game summaries and statistics are published by both schools, the conference, at the home town newspapers of each team, the large regional or state newspapers, and the governing body (NAIA, NCAA, etc)--normally many national papers and newsworthy websites today pick up these summaries and statistics as well.  From there, sportswriters continue to develop and write their own articles and stories based on their information gathered, their research, their conversastions, and their observations.  

:Also, newspapers and news sources will print pre-game analysis each week.  Even for very small schools, an entire season's worth of news media can result in the coach being quoted in over 20 newspaper articles in eleven different newspapers (figure 10 opponents and the hometown paper, and that is at only one article for each game-paper combination).

:Add to that, even most of the smallest schools have a "sports information director" who is responsible for the distribution of all sports data and controlling media contact with the school.  Sportswriters and peers use this information to formulate their rankings accurately.  The need for a sports information director to manage and distribute the information is a strong indicator of the demand for information on the topic.

:In conclusion, the project determines that the demand for widely sought information is yet another indicator of notability.

====Head Coach Notability Discussion Library====
The issue of notability of coaches has been discused on many occasions on Wikipedia:

* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oscar Dahlene]]
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fay G. Moulton]]
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mike Gottsch]]
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/James A. Stevens]]
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sam B. Taylor]]
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hoover J. Wright]]
* [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prairie View coaches]]

===Assistant Coaches===
Assistant coaches, managers, and other staff subordinate to the head coach may or may not be notable depending on their accomplishments, past programs, tenure, and other factors.  However, there are certain qualifications where an assistant coach would be considered notable:
* assistant coaches who later become a head coach 
* assistant coaches who win the [[Broyles Award]] (an annual award given to honor the best assistant coach in college football)
* assistant coaches who take over head coaching duties for a series of games due to the injury or death of the head coach
* assistant coaches who previously were notbable as head coaches
* assistant coaches who are a significant part of a noteworthy event or achievement

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Qualification
! Assistant Coach
! Notes
|-
| ''...goes on to be a head coach'' || [[Bill Snyder]] || Assistant coach for [[Hayden Fry]] at [[University of Iowa]], head coach at [[Kansas State University|Kansas State]]
|-
| ''...win the [[Broyles Award]]'' || [[Jim Heacock]] || Won the award in [[2007]] while an assistant coach for the [[Ohio State Buckeyes football|Ohio State Buckeyes]]
|-
| ''...take over head coaching duties'' || [[Bill Lynch]], [[Bob Seaman]]  || Lynch was the assistant for [[Terry Hoeppner]] at Indiana during Hoeppener's battle with cancer, Seaman was the assistant for [[Ben Wilson (football coach)|Ben Wilson]], who died with about half of his team in a [[Wichita State University football team plane crash|plane crash]].  Both went on to be named the head coach the next year.
|-
| ''...were previous head coaches'' || [[Stan Parrish]], [[Tim McCarty]] || Parrish was the head coach at [[Kansas State University|Kansas State]], [[Wabash College|Wabash]], and [[Marshall University|Marshall]], then went on to be an assistant coach at [[Rutgers University|Rutgers]] and [[University of Michigan|Michigan]].  McCarty was the head coach at [[Tabor College (Kansas)|Tabor]] and [[East Central University|East Central]], then became assistant coach at [[Kansas State University|Kansas State]]
|- 
|''...noteworthy achievement or event'' || [[William "Red" Dawson]] || Assistant coach at [[Marshall Thundering Herd|Marshall University]] and major character in the movie ''[[We Are Marshall]]''
|}

Assistant coaches ''may'' be noteworth enough to ''mention'' in another article (such as a team article, a game article, etc., but that does not necessarily mean that the assistant coach has enough notability for an article dedicated to the assistant coach.

===Officials===
Game [[Official (American football)|officials]] often take the stance that they prefer to keep the focus on the game and off of themselves.  This stance is supported by the fact that the [[College Football Hall of Fame]] does not induct officials.  Even when officials make notable errors such as the [[Fifth Down Game (1990)]], we prefer to simply use the term "the official" (general) or "the back judge" (specific official position) instead of listing the name of the person fulfilling the role of the official.

Officials can obtain notability through other means, such as being a head coach.  There is a [[List of NFL officials]].

===Administrative and other staff===
Like the head coach, the college football project considers the college or university [[Athletic Director|athletic director]] (AD) to be notable.    The reasoning is that the AD is responsible for the program of football as well as other sports and is heavily involved in scheduling games, hiring and firing head coaches, negotiating television and media rights, and long term development projects such as building stadiums.  This responsibility has been determined by consensus in the project to be noteworthy activities.  Also it is not uncommon for the AD to be the head coach of the football program and sometimes other sports as well such as [[basketball]] or [[Athletics (track & field)|track & field]].

Past, present, and future (officially announced) athletic directors are considered notable.  

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Position
! Example
! Notes
|-
| [[Athletic Director]]
| [[Mike Kirkland (coach)]]
| Current AD for [[Southwestern College Moundbuilders]] (as of [[2008]])
|-
| Previous [[Athletic Director]]
| [[Steve Miller (athletics)]]
| AD at [[Kansas State University]] from [[1988]] to [[1992]]
|-
| future announced [[Athletic Director]]
| ''none at present''
| Any individual who has been officially hired and publicly announced to take over duties as athletic director of a notable college is notable.
|-
| [[Athletic Director]] and [[coach]]
| [[Homer Woodson Hargiss]]
| AD and coach of all sports at [[College of Emporia]] from [[1910]] to [[1913]]
|}

Other administrative positions in college sports (such as assistant athletic director or sports information director) are non-notable positions.  Naturally people in those positions may gain notability through other means.

===Mascots===

Current and past mascots of notable schools are considered notable.  Notable mascorts include:
# character mascots
# live animal mascots
# item mascots
# discontinued mascots.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Category 
! Mascot
! Notes
|-
| ''...Character mastcot'' || [[Sparty]], [[Hokie Bird]] || anyone who portrays the character (i.e. the student who wears the suit) would not be considered notable
|-
| ''...live animal mascot'' || [[Ralphie]] || one page for all generations of the mascot, as demonstrated with Ralphie I, II, III, IV, and V
|-
| ''...item mascots'' || [[Ramblin' Wreck]] || a 1930 [[Ford Motor Company|Ford]] [[Ford Model A (1927)|Model A]] [[Sports coupe]] 
|-
| ''...discontinued mascots''|| [[Sammy Seminole]] || In 1972 Sammy Seminole was retired at the request of the Seminole Tribe of Florida.
|}

===Broadcasters and sportswriters===
The project includes national broadcasters and sportswriters who work in a noteworthy capacity with college football.  Some of these key people are involved in creating nationally recognized polls, where others are widely recognized for their contribution.  Examples include [[Craig James (American football)]], [[Lee Corso]], and [[Chris Fowler]].

==Fact vs Fiction==
Fictional events or people in college football, such as the films ''[[The Program]]'', ''[[Everybody's All-American (film)|Everybody's All-American]]'', and ''[[Necessary Roughness (film)|Necessary Roughness]]'' are outside the scope of the project.  

Many films and books are based on fact but have fictional components.  On occasion, the project may point to movies and books that focus on events that really happened, such as the films ''[[Knute Rockne, All American]]'', ''[[Rudy (film)|Rudy]]'', and ''[[We Are Marshall]]''. Wikiproject College Football will also coordinate with other Wikiprojects involved with those topics, such as [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Films]].

==College Football Deletion FAQ==
Below are some of the frequently asked questions encountered concerning the creation, editing, and deletion of articles within the scope of the college football project.  If you do not understand the directions or just would like some help, post a notice on the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football|College Football project talk page]] describing what happened and ask us for help.

===Q:  Someone deleted an article I posted...  what should I do?===

A:  That stinks, but it happens.  Here is the recommended method for handling a college football project page that has been deleted.

# Don't panic.
# Be nice.
# Read [[Wikipedia:Why was my page deleted?]]
# Follow the instructions at [[Wikipedia:Why was my page deleted?#What you can do about it]]
# '''Do not put the page back up immediately''' this can lead to all kinds of misunderstandings by the page being deleted again... and again... and being protected (locked)... and possibly even you as an editor being locked out of Wikipedia for a period of time.
# Be nice.
# Check the deletion review log to find the editor that deleted the page.  Politely ask the editor why it was deleted and ask the editor to restore the page.
# If that does not get satisfactory results, follow the instructions above and opening a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review]].  You will likely get the page restored at least temporarily and can begin improvements, although that may not happen right away.  Even if the page should ultimately be deleted, this is almost always a worthwhile effort as it helps to gain a better understanding as to what makes a good article in Wikipedia.

===Q:  The article I am working on has been marked for '''speedy deletion'''... what should I do?===

A:  Please know the difference between ''deletion'' and ''speedy deletion.''  Here is the recommended method for handling a college football project page that has been marked for speedy deletion.
# Be nice.
# Immediately visit [[Template:Hangon]] and follow the instructions.  This will involve placing a "hangon" template on the page in question and giving a reason to prevent the speedy deletion.  Reasons such as "page is currently under development" or "currently revising page" should be acceptable.
# Check the ''history'' of the page in question to locate the Wikipedia editor who placed the ''speedy deletion'' tag.  Go to the editor's talk page and nicely ask the editor to consider removing the tag, giving a reason.  The editor will usually either remove the speedy deletion tag, or remove the speedy deletion tag and nominate the article for deletion.
# Read [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Speedy deletion]]
# Begin improving the article

===Q:  The article I am working on has been marked for '''deletion'''...  what should I do?===

A:  Please know the difference between ''deletion'' and ''speedy deletion.''  Here is the recommended method for handling a college football project page that has been marked for deletion.
# Be nice.
# Visit the discussion page for the article listed in the template (it will look like this: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Crane]]).  Read the comments why the editor believes the article should be deleted.  Do not respond right away, it is not necessary.  It is better to formulate clear arguments and prepare the article to meet the requested standards while giving a chance for your emotions to subside so you can (you guessed it) be nice.
# Read [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion]]
# Notify the college football project by placing an entry on the project main page at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject College football#Articles & Pages being considered for deletion]].  This is all you should need to do for notifying other college football editors to the situation.
# Be nice (it's really important!)
# There are two primary methods to respond or overturn deletion arguments:  a) overcome the deletion argument by enhancing or improving the article so that the deletion argument is no longer an issue, or b) respond to the deletion argument itself.  Use them in that order.
# Place the College Football Project template on the article talk page if it is not there already.
# Place appropriate categories at the bottom of the article page.
# Look for similar articles that may link to the page--for example, a school's current starting quarterback article should be referenced from the team page and possibly the coach's page.
# Look for additional information and sources for the article page
# Be nice.
# Also, be sure to consider the possibility that the article should be deleted.  That's what the discussion (and improvement time) will help to determine.

===Q: The article I am working on has a notability tag at the top... what should I do?===

A:  This is when the article has not been nominated for deletion, but someone has expressed concerns to notability by placing the [[Template:notability]] template on the page (which, if unchecked, can lead to deletion).  Here is the recommended method for handling notability concerns.
# Be nice.
# Consider the reasons given for the tag, it may be a legitimate request--either for more information, more detail, additional sources, or there may be other concerns.
# Look through the history of the page to determine who left the notability template and place the [[Template:CFBNotability]] notice on the user's TALK page.
# Place the [[Template:CFBPriority]] template to indicate intent to improve the article.
# Begin improving the article.
# Remove the [[Template:CFBPriority]] template when complete.

===Q:  The article I am working on has been dramatically changed by another editor... what should I do?===

A:  Relax.  That's what happens in Wikipedia!  If the changes improved the article, be encouraged!  If you think the changes made the article worse, go to the article's ''discussion'' page (sometimes called a ''talk'' page) and engage other editors on the subject.  Oh, and be nice.

If, however, you think that the changes are damaging to Wikipedia in some way (such as containing false information, [[WP:VANDALISM|vandalism]], contains copyrighted material, etc.) then be [[WP:BOLD]] and make further changes as you see fit.  You can even undo the changes (and if it's obvious vandalism, you should). And be nice.

===Q:  I am doing some major work on an article and would like to avoid edit conflicts... what should I do?===

A:  Read [[Template:Inuse]] for instructions.  You can place the "in-use" header at the top of the page while you are completing major work.  Please remove it when you have completed.

===Q:  I would like to create an article about a topic in college football, but I do not see it covered in this essay... what should I do?===

A:  Be [[WP:BOLD|bold]] and create the article.  Place the college football project [[template:WikiProject College football|template]] at the top of the article's ''talk'' page and create a notification on the project home page about the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject College football#New college football articles|new article]].  Also, make an entry on this essay's [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Notability|talk]] page about what you think was missed and why you think it should be added.

===Q:  I think that these guidelines should be changed/modified/enhanced... what should I do?===

A:  Start a discussion on this essay's [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Notability|talk]] page.  Be nice and state your concerns.  Project editors will be happy to engage and discuss your ideas.

[[Category:Wikipedia notability (sports and games)|Arena Football League]]