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==Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist==
{{hat|After roughly 2 weeks, a consensus to act has not emerged. Everyone is requested to keep statements within the 500 word count in the future. --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 07:48, 17 June 2025 (UTC)<br>The diffs presented by Samuelshraga were found to not be actionable --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 16:46, 22 June 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Samuelshraga}} 13:22, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist}}<p>{{ds/log|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_and_sexuality#Final_decision]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1290400206 14.5.2025] YFNS denies at FTN that she was not using a "fringe organisation" argument to disqualify a source, though she 
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1289902679 11.5.2025] clearly did.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Transgender_health_care_misinformation_2&diff=prev&oldid=1289970417 12.5.2025] YFNS complains that her DYK nomination is on hold because of ongoing issues; says {{tq|The issues with sourcing currently raised were discussed extensively during those, and the editor most vehemently arguing there are issues is relitigating complaints they made prior}}. The ongoing [[Talk:Transgender health care misinformation#Manufactured_uncertainty?|discussion at the time]] was raised by an editor new to the page (me) and hadn't been discussed before. 
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Transgender_health_care_misinformation_2&diff=prev&oldid=1290570528 15.5.2025] YFNS says {{tq|now sourcing concerns by one editor are being used to justify deleting a DYK nom}} when at the time maybe a half dozen editors across two talk page sections were engaging constructively, including editing unverified statements or finding better sources.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1292392569 26.5.2025] YFNS claims a longstanding consensus "that ROGD is indeed FRINGE", linking to a discussion closed with a decision not to call it (lower-case) "fringe" in an article talk page.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1293288426 31.5.2025] YFNS claims {{tq|I don't think I've seen a MEDRS that SEGM has produced}} despite less than a week earlier [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation#c-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20250525184200-Samuelshraga-20250525181900 arguing] that a review article in Archives of Disease in Childhood shouldn't be used because one co-author is affiliated to SEGM.

'''Added since filing:'''
:#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1293421976 1.6.2025] ''in this discussion'' claims that (of diffs 1/2 above) {{tq|he keeps saying my only opposition is SEGM}}, linking to a [[User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#c-Samuelshraga-20250529163500-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20250529153600|discussion]] where I'd repeatedly said the opposite, in addition to saying the opposite in my first additional comments below. [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 19:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC) edited 12:02, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1273540484#Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine 2.2.2025] YFNS says that {{tq|NPOVN has found it FRINGE}} (referring to SEGM). The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard/Archive_109#Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine link is to a NPOVN thread] with 8 comments, none of which mention "FRINGE", most of which don't directly comment on SEGM at all. [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 12:41, 5 June 2025 (UTC)


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : 
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#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1142680274#Advocacy_editing_by_User:TheTranarchist 3.3.2023] Topic-banned from GENSEX (indef appealable after 6 months)
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=148142275 14.6.23] 1 week block for violation of tban 

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
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*Placed a {{t|Contentious topics/aware}} template for the area of conflict on their own [http://User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist talk page].

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|user=Samuelshraga}}
{{ApprovedWordLimit|words=900|sig=[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 23:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)}}
These diffs above show within 3 weeks that YFNS misrepresented discussions a bunch of times to try and get her way. To try and get the DYK passed, YFNS repeatedly dismissed and misrepresented the ongoing discussions as insignificant or vexatious.

To counter claims in the FTN RfC, YFNS claims that the implications are narrow, the point of the exercise was solely to be able to point editors to site consensus about a group and not to disqualify sources. At the same time YFNS is using SEGM-affiliation of authors as their first (though not only) argument to disqualify sources. 

YFNS says that there is a longstanding consensus that ROGD is [[WP:FRINGE]] linking to an RfC on an article talk page (i.e. local consensus).

YFNS says that she's never seen a SEGM MEDRS source before and yet has - including in extremely recent discussions.

I saw at the ongoing close review an admin state that the proper place to address rhetorical dishonesty in GENSEX was here. I had already tried to address it on this editor's talk page, and received denial, justification, followed by a repeat of the behaviour. It's just not reasonable to expect editors to have to double-check every time an editor references a previous discussion because they may not be telling the truth.

:Added a new diff because, in a report based on misrepresentations of discussions to influence processes, YFNS has blatantly done it again, and the evidence is on this board. 
:On their rebuttal:
:1-2) A blatant misrepresentation aside, misses the point. The other arguments against the source may have been valid in their context. At FTN, the important thing was the scope of a "fringe organisation" finding. Saying that it disqualifies a source published in academic RS would have demonstrated the concern about how broadly an affirmative finding would be interpreted, and YFNS deliberately downplayed this by denying using the argument. 
:3) Just to note that what YFNS calls here {{tq|one straightforward issue}} is still unresolved weeks later, and that YFNS [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender%20health%20care%20misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1289644264 denied there was any] issue at all when it was raised.
:4) I didn't argue to scrap the DYK, if that's what your implying. Even if I had, it wouldn't justify lying.
:5) To answer Snokalok, this is actually the weakest diff in my evidence - the close is pretty damning about the theory. Even so, it simply doesn't support YFNS' statement that links to it.
:6) No one said the ADC article was a systematic review or unimpeachable, or that no contrary sources exist. It's a review article in Archives of Disease in Childhood - it's MEDRS. Which we discussed, and within a week you claimed not to have seen. [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 19:58, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

::@[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]]'s [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1293709197 reading] of the diffs is over-generous:
::1) EW says of using SEGM-authorship to disqualify sources, {{tq|viewed in context she's just saying that it wasn't fundamental to her argument}}. This was a later excuse not made in the original context. In the original context of the misrepresentation it's irrelevant whether it was the main argument YFNS used, '''it was whether the argument was used at all'''. The use of this argument demonstrated wider implications of the [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine|RfC at FTN]]. Saying there: "that was only a small part of my argument" would have been conceding this point. Instead, she said {{tq|that wasn't the argument}}.
::3-4) EW says these should have been worded more precisely. YFNS represented the live issues on the page as: previously discussed, vexatious, solely raised by VIR. These aren't imprecise, they're false. 
::5) The close doesn't say what YFNS says it does, and just as important YFNS misrepresents the level of consensus even after elastic exculpatory exegesis.
::6) EW's statement that about SEGM-affiliation as "the gravamen of her argument" seems to be about 1-2, and completely unrelated to diff 6 which is about pretending not to have seen MEDRS. 
::Supplemental diff: 1) YFNS accuses {{tq|he keeps saying my only opposition is SEGM}}. Not only did I write in this filing that it was {{tq|their first ('''though not only''') argument to disqualify sources}} (emphasis added), but I've clarified this 3 previous times to YFNS. YFNS alleges that I {{tq|make the same arguments (point 2 in the back and forth[112])}} that her only opposition was SEGM authorship. In fact, [[User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#c-Samuelshraga-20250529163500-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20250529153600|in that discussion]], I say: {{tq|The fact that you also added further arguments doesn't mean you weren't using that one}} [[User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#c-Samuelshraga-20250529205000-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20250529172400|and]] {{tq|I never claimed that this was the only argument you made.}} [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#c-Samuelshraga-20250515090000-Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist-20250514154600|I had earlier written]] (in a comment YFNS responded to): {{tq|you made several arguments for throwing out a source, the first one is association to the organisation}}. YFNS didn't clumsily misread my opening statement here, she '''links to a talk page discussion and says I make the opposite claim there to the one I did''' explicitly and repeatedly. This is what I'm talking about. She's demonstrably lied, in this filing - what more evidence could you need? [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 07:07, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1273540484#Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine Additional diff 2] is on its own a clear misrepresentation, and should dispel doubts about whether diff 5 was an incidental overstatement or part of a pattern. [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 12:41, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Valereee|Valereee]], to your point about {{tq|inconsistent arguments}}, I started this report because I noticed a pattern of YFNS misrepresenting past discussions to sway processes.
:During this report, YFNS linked[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1293421976] to a past discussion with me[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#Please_represent_discussions_accurately], and represented me as saying that YFNS had used SEGM affiliation as the only argument to disqualify a source. I had said the opposite - multiple times at the discussion YFNS linked to[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist&diff=prev&oldid=1292925071][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist&diff=prev&oldid=1292925071], and elsewhere. It's what got me started as saying this was lying as opposed to misrepresentation, because I can't maintain further doubts about intentionality. YFNS hasn't responded further on this. This isn't {{tq|inconsistent arguments}}. It's making false claims about what has previously been said. [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 09:44, 10 June 2025 (UTC)




; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : 
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist&diff=prev&oldid=1293396367]


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|user=Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist}}
{{ApprovedWordLimit|words=1250|sig=[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 22:10, 2 June 2025 (UTC)}}
1-2) This is a misrepresentation Samuel has been making for a week. He says{{tq|This behaviour continues months later with the '''primary''' argument against a review article's use being a co-author's declared affiliation to SEGM. }}, linking to me noting that a commentary cited by a narrative review doesn't override systematic reviews. That's basic MEDRS. He came to my talk page the other day to make the same arguments (point 2 in the back and forth[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#Please_represent_discussions_accurately]) The SEGM authorship is the cherry on top for unreliability in what already fails MEDRS, he keeps saying my only opposition is SEGM

3) I shouldn't have said that at DYK. I was admittedly vexed as the first DYK was derailed by comments admins just agreed were sanctionable[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1293415190#Colin], which led to a GAR and second GA assessment, which found it fine and let me re-open the DYK, and I was frustrated to see it derailed again.
* I would like to note however, Samuel also raised this on my talk page (point 3 in the discussion[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#==_Notice_of_Arbitration_Enforcement_noticeboard_discussion]), and I note my response that his section raised one straightforward issue but {{tq|In the same section, VIR repeatedly commented on desistance, social contagion, the detransition rate - relitigating things previously discussed to death}}

4) I don't think any of those other editors engaging would have supported scrapping the DYK because of a discussion of sourcing unrelated to the hooks. I'll note the comment I make after, where I clarify my frustration[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Transgender_health_care_misinformation_2&diff=prev&oldid=1290885574]

5) There is absolutely long-standing consensus across dozens of articles that [[ROGD]] (kids are catching trans from the internet en masse) is a fringe theory. Snokalok already quoted that RFC close noting it's got no scientific support. But the full statement is {{tq|We've had a longstanding consensus, that VIR is aware of, that ROGD is indeed FRINGE}}[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1292392569], which is doubly true since VIR has extensively argued on multiple talk pages that ROGD is not FRINGE (include talk for [[ROGD]]) and consensus has repeatedly found against. A week before, you asked VIR's advice and had him tell you himself he's "a small minority" in opposing consensus at ROGD[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Void_if_removed&diff=prev&oldid=1289947466], a few weeks before I make that comment in response to claims like {{tq|Wuest & Last present "social contagion/ROGD" as misinformation without establishing that it is}}

6) That is not some top-tier MEDRS, it's a primary source analyzing another primary source. Some editors wanted to disprove the former based on the latter. In that linked thread, I note that top-tier MEDRS/MEDORGS (the [[British Medical Association]] and the [[AWMF]]'s latest [[clinical practice guidelines]]) 1) make the same accusations the second source says isn't an issue and 2) and cite the former source. Conversely, I note that the only people who've given any weight to the source authored by SEGM is commentary/opinion pieces from other SEGM members.
* If admins need context for all this : {{tq|[SEGM, Genspect, and etc] produce little or no original research, adds a group of researchers from the Yale University Integrity Project. For example, they estimate that around 75% of published publications by SEGM members are letters and comments, not peer-reviewed scientific papers.}}[https://ici.radio-canada.ca/recit-numerique/10959/transgenre-desinformation-pesudoscience-segm-genspect] 

I'm not sure what to make of this filing apart from what Snokalok said. [[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 16:34, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:<small>Requesting 500 words to reply to VIR</small> [[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 23:39, 1 June 2025 (UTC)
:Context: Recent AE case against VIR [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive340#Void_if_removed]
:Regarding VIR's points:
:* 1) [[Cass Review#Methodology]]: {{tq|No external review or prior consultation was performed before publishing.}} - cited to the [[AWMF]]
:* 2/3) Whether a "letter" or "scientific letter" (rated ''lower'' than primary by the publisher) - still not MEDRS.
:* 4) I did not call Esses a conversion therapist, I said his website recommends conversion therapy advocates [[Therapy First]] and [[Genspect]], among others. Those others are the [[Bayswater Support Group]] and Our Duty (who say the goal of treatment should be "desistance", ie no longer identifying as trans[https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/nhs-pulls-trans-conference-after-speakers-links-exposed/])[[https://www.thoughtfultherapists.org/find-a-therapist]]
:* 6-8) VIR has been refusing to drop the stick on this for months: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gender_dysphoria_in_children&oldid=1254371017#Persistence September 2024 at talk:gdic], [[Talk:Transgender health care misinformation]] in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/Archive_1#Desistance_%22myth%22 may 2025], March GA reassessment[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1] and re-review[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/GA3], and now again in May[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1289713272] (per the recent DYK hook discussed above) - dozens of repetitious settled arguments over months
:** In VIR's latest diff[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1278846496&oldid=1278846104&title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1] he says I concede removed text was NPOV, as I explain that it's a NPOV violation to claim it found "80% desistance" when it says {{tq|the commonly used statistic stating that *80% of TGE youth will desist}} is flawed, relied on conflicting definitions, and conversion therapy.
:* 9) I apologize. It was blunter than called for and in the wrong forum. 
:* 10) I defend Baxendale as a MEDRS there and note VIR's other "MEDRS" were mostly commentaries and primary articles
:* 11) A MEDORG states {{Tq| a number of people involved in the review and the advisory group previously advocated for bans on gender affirming care in the United States, and have promoted non-affirming ‘gender exploratory therapy’, which is considered a conversion practice.}}[https://patha.nz/News/13341582] VIR and Sweet6970 participated in the talk discussion that led to consensus to keep the material[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cass_Review/Archive_12#Far_Right] (And other editors told Sweet to not hound me[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#January_2025])
:* 12)[[Helen Joyce#Views on transgender topics]] - (The quote's famous)
:[[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 22:03, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
::Clarif. for 11: Consensus was to keep it but swap out "far-right" for "anti-trans", which I supported. Sweet6970 had argued the entire paragraph was {{Tq|WP:COATRACK, and should be removed, quite apart from any other objections to the wording.}}[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cass_Review/Archive_12#COATRACK] [[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 22:46, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

To save words/time - I'll try to only respond to admins after this. First:
* {{Ping|Void if removed}}'s [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Conversion_therapy&diff=prev&oldid=1244883218 4a] links to me noting his website recommends multiple conversion therapy orgs. VIR, are you denying his website recommends conversion therapy orgs?
* Sweet6970's example, Helen Joyce has famously called trans people damaged problems and called for reducing the number who can transition and RS have described this as genocidal / eugenicist. Sweet6970 thinks calling her a [[WP:QUACKS]] is too far (for the record, since SFR commented, I've tried to avoid the term, and later in the convo stop using it[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289644031&oldid=1289642300&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]). The context was VIR putting her criticism of the BMA in an article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=prev&oldid=1289485690][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AYour_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist&diff=1289599644&oldid=1286598489] [[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 15:51, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Snokalok====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|user=Snokalok}}
{{ApprovedWordLimit|words=750|sig=[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 08:17, 3 June 2025 (UTC)}}
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

So, if what I’m reading here is right, you’re taking her to AE because you perceive minor inconsistencies in arguments presented across different discussions tirelessly over the course of weeks? Because that sounds like something <i>completely reasonable</i> for any flawed human being with a life and limited energy to have when they’re volunteering as tirelessly as YFNS does, again, over the course of weeks.

Additionally, the FTN thread on SEGM came to a consensus of {{tq|it is quite clear that there is strong support for classifying SEGM as a fringe organization.}} and that {{tq| SEGM’s publications or views can not be used to contradict well sourced scientific information in other articles as per WP:FRINGE and WP:PSCI. Editors can remove or challenge the addition of any SEGM based evidence in a medical topic citing consensus both here and in the previous RfC.}} so even if she was discounting sources based on SEGM ties, that is well within her rights.[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#RFC_about_the_Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine_and_FRINGE]

You seem to argue here that she misrepresents the closure of the ROGD RFC, and yet the closure she cited was in regards to the actual wording of content in an article, in which the consensus was {{tq| the rough consensus is that ROGD is politics and not science}} and {{tq|The article clearly describes ROGD as the contentious concept of rapid-onset gender dysphoria, which is not recognized as a medical diagnosis by any major professional institution and is not backed by credible scientific evidence. In other words, Wikipedians are immensely skeptical of ROGD and this wording will remain in the article.}} This was NOT an RFC that decided whether to call it WP:FRINGE as editors, it was whether to use the word fringe in articlespace; but also the wording of this closure makes describing a consensus that ROGD would fall under the policy of WP:FRINGE to be not an unfathomable takeaway. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Irreversible_Damage/Archive_10#RfC:_Should_rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_be_described_as_%22fringe%22?] Not the takeaway I would make perhaps, but not a particularly incriminating one either. To my mind, this is your strongest diff, and even it does not rise to the level of AE.

<s>Tamzin said above to bring more GENSEX cases, they said nothing about “rhetorical dishonesty”.[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1292115303]</s> Stricken in accordance with diff from Tamzin

<s>[FULLY REDACTED PER TALK PAGE REQUEST]</s> Likewise, though I do think this is still a matter of WP:SATISFY [[User:Snokalok|Snokalok]] ([[User talk:Snokalok|talk]]) 15:46, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:Requesting extension. I'm going to need it to answer Void's diffs. [[User:Snokalok|Snokalok]] ([[User talk:Snokalok|talk]]) 23:10, 1 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] I’d like to request that extension now if it’s alright [[User:Snokalok|Snokalok]] ([[User talk:Snokalok|talk]]) 08:07, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Two points @[[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]]:
:::1. James Esses. Now, YFNS nowhere that I can see calls Esses a conversion therapist, she says that he advocates for conversion therapy- with the exact method being [[gender exploratory therapy]]. Click on that wikilink, and you will see extensive sourcing that GET is a form of conversion therapy practiced against trans people to try and cure them of their transness. VIR knows this, because he has been a very active part of the discussion in arguing against it being considered conversion therapy, based on the ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Review#Global_reception highly medically criticized]) Cass Review. This is the first time though that I can remember it being made an admin issue.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Conversion_therapy&diff=prev&oldid=1244875229][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine&diff=prev&oldid=1251097869][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine&diff=prev&oldid=1252419605][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1292700239]
:::2. 83% desistance. Now, if one actually read the source being cited [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9829142/], they’d see that the review extensively perforates the quantitative studies used to form that number, describing them as {{tq|biased research}} and classifying them as all {{tq|poor quality}}. It highlights how they all relied on the DSM-III criteria, and 3/4 studies diagnosed internally using inconsistent definitions and criteria across their patient cohort; and then of those four, Cohen-Kettenis (2008) classified as desisters those who later on as adults did not respond to contact attempts, and subsequently used this to argue against social transition. Davenport (1986), didn’t actually study trans kids, it only used the DSM-III def. under which it studied ten {{tq|feminine boys}} who'd exhibited {{tq|cross-gender behavior}} with the exact study eligibility criteria not discussed; and because one of those 10 later transitioned, it said that 90% desist. So hypothetically, by this criteria, if you did ballet as a boy, and you grew up to be cis, congratulations - you’re now a desister. Drummond (2008) evaluated desistance as no longer being distressed about your gender - so if you successfully and happily transitioned, congrats! Desister. And Singh (2012), with an avg starting age of 7.5 yrs old, was at the Toronto CAMH, which is widely known for having at the time practiced psychotherapy to try and make trans kids become cis as the primary line of treatment.[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/former-camh-psychologist-dr-kenneth-zucker-defends-his-work-1.4856371] These are issues the other citations in the article then extensively expand upon and flesh out; with the result being that the GAR found the coverage and underlying citations of the topic to be fine despite you arguing these same points there at the time.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1] [[User:Snokalok|Snokalok]] ([[User talk:Snokalok|talk]]) 13:21, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Void if removed====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|user=Void if removed}}
{{ApprovedWordLimit|words=850|sig=[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 08:26, 3 June 2025 (UTC)}}

Transgender healthcare is an area where MEDRS are genuinely contradictory and the best we can do is represent all views according to weight. YFNS has very strong views about which views are correct, and has spent the 18 months since the lifting of her TBAN bludgeoning many discussions insisting that sources which don't accord with her POV are invariably FRINGE. I think there are many examples of source misrepresentation, cherrypicking, and disregard for sensitivity to BLPs as well as BATTLEGROUND and RGW behaviour. Some examples:

(Copied here for clarity)([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/GA3&diff=prev&oldid=1279382600 1a],[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1266286446 1b]) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/GA3&diff=prev&oldid=1279505242 1] - 08/03/2025 - Misrepresenting a source about the Cass Review 2022 interim report as applicable to the 2024 final report in the GA3 review of their article (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cass_Review#c-Vanamonde93-20250521162500-Void_if_removed-20250521130800 here] for why).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1292393563 2] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1292408532 3] - 26/05/2025 -[[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] - responding to a simple FYI with two comments doubling down on incorrect information.

<s>[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gender-critical_feminism&diff=prev&oldid=1244217093 4] - 05/09/2024 -</s>  [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Conversion_therapy&diff=prev&oldid=1244883218 4a] 09/09/2024 One of several examples of calling BLPs contentious terms like <s>"conversion therapists"</s> "fringe conversion therapy pusher" on talk with no sourcing/OR. (Apologies - wrong diff, imprecise quote)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1292396051 5] - 26/05/2025 - Removing balancing MEDRS.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gender_dysphoria_in_children&diff=prev&oldid=1248507335 6] - 29/09/2024 - Removing material on historic desistence rates from one article, prior to creating a new article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transgender_health_care_misinformation here] where historic desistance rates are now framed as a "myth".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1278845271 7] - 04/03/2025 - Source misrepresentation/cherrypicking. Removing the best quantitative estimate of desistance from a systematic review - appropriately caveated - to continue to portray historically high rates as a "myth". 

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1289772015 8] - 10/05/2025 - Source misrepresentation. Same source, presented as if 80% is definitively a myth. 

Personal attacks here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Black_Kite&diff=prev&oldid=1262935938 9], directed at me on an admin's talk page, which I only became aware of last week.

More BATTLEGROUND and dubious assessment of sources here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1293301911 10] and exactly the problem with her longstanding misuse of FRINGE, in that YFNS seeks to discount MEDRS that say the wrong thing (in the linked original comment, dismissing respected neuroscientist Sallie Baxendale, for one).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1272326663 11] WEASEL-worded "concerns" a BLP may have far-right links, using one weak source citing a blog.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Helen_Joyce&diff=1286554268&oldid=1286346863 12] Taking ''attributed'' material from the body of a BLP and placing it in the lede in wikivoice. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 22:02, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:SarekOfVulcan|SarekOfVulcan]] can you elaborate which diff is supposedly "misrepresentation". Eg. 1 is continuation of misrepresentation from [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/GA3&diff=prev&oldid=1279382600 here], after originally adding to Cass Review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1266286446 here]. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 20:44, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:LokiTheLiar|LokiTheLiar]] your citation for 4 doesn't support calling a BLP a conversion therapist. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 20:55, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:RE: 6,7 and 8 see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1&diff=prev&oldid=1278846496 here] for YFNS' concession the removed text was actually an appropriately caveated NPOV representation of [https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2020.0129 a systematic review] that says {{tq | Quantitative studies were all poor quality, with 83% of 251 participants reported as desisting}}. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 21:44, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:RE: 4, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1223692296 13] calling the same BLP a conversion therapist and a bigoted quack. Long history of this. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 23:15, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] The sentence starting {{tq | The desistance myth is the theory that the majority (approximately 80%) [...] will stop desiring transition}} requires MEDRS. YFNS combines a sociology paper with a [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9829142/ systematic review] which found, with caveats, {{tq | '''83% of 251 participants reported as desisting'''}}. This source never finds or says it is a "myth", only that the data is poor and the author - while acknowledging their personal bias - ''suggests'' desistance should not be a focus of discourse. YFNS has removed at [7] balancing aspects of the source that contradict the strong "myth" framing, and the diff at [8] is [[WP:SYNTH]] that takes the 83% from this source and misrepresents it as part of the “myth”. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 11:03, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:RE [10] adding related source misrepresentation [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1285655840 14]. The lead is Anna Miroshnychenko. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 13:32, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
:YFNS' response [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1293641596 15] to [10] is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Void_if_removed-20250531221200-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20250531213000 misrepresentation]. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]]
::@[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]]
::1 - I told YFNS this on [[Talk:Cass Review/Archive 11#c-Void if removed-20250102100800-Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist-20250101225500|January 2nd]], [[Talk:Cass Review/Archive 11#c-Void if removed-20250103151600-Lewisguile-20250103123000|3rd]] and [[Talk:Cass Review/Archive 11#c-Void if removed-20250105154000-Lewisguile-20250105123300|5th]]. Everything from then on was knowing misrepresentation. 
::4 - apologies, wrong diff, fixed
::6,7,8 - YFNS uses articles she has excluded balancing sources from to argue circularly against the sources she excluded. Having removed contrary sources like Cass and created the "[[Desistance myth]]", cites it to claim Cass is FRINGE eg. [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 471#c-Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist-20250220234100-Chess-20250220225000|here]] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1276621178 here].
::11 - Only after a trip to [[WP:BLPN]]. Treating a [[WP:BLP]] with care should be the default, not a battle.
::10,14,15 - YFNS starts at Samuelshrega's [6] saying {{tq | '''The only one''' is the Guyatt review}}. I supply 4 systematic reviews, a narrative review, and 2 research articles. YFNS misclassifies them [10], claims to have meant 3 of the reviews then dismisses their importance because the {{tq|lead author is '''heavily critical''' of them and has been critical '''of many of their FRINGE theories'''}} (wrong author, criticism is [https://undark.org/2024/05/20/pediatric-transgender-care-contentious-segm/ exaggerated]/false). Attaching criticism to '''lead author''' inflates rhetorical importance, [14] is the same misrepresentation - it gives the "criticism" more weight. And at [15] YFNS continues to insist I'm citing "{{tq|mostly commentaries and primary articles}}". Its plainly untrue. This rhetorical dishonesty is what Samuelshrega complains about. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 16:30, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] 
::[5] - Removing MEDRS because ''who's'' cited ''elsewhere?'' Read that inflammatory comment alongside @[[User:Berchanhimez|Berchanhimez]] statement and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kenneth_Zucker&diff=prev&oldid=1251203868 16] ([[Talk:Kenneth Zucker#Living in your own skin model|questionable]]). [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 16:37, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Silverseren====
This entire filing just appears to be fringe-pushing editors in the transgender topic area purposefully misrepresenting and misleading both past RfCs and consensus on various topics, not to mention doing so with source discussions. Which Snokalok has clearly pointed out above for what the filer claims.

As for the statement just above mine and its continued argumentation with diffs of article and source content disputes (and still pushing fringe subjects like desistance), I can 100% wholeheartedly say that Void if removed is a perfect representation of an fringe-pushing [[WP:SPA]] editor in this topic area from their [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sir_Ewan_Forbes,_11th_Baronet&diff=prev&oldid=1059182047 very first edits], which involved an interaction with me on [[Talk:Sir Ewan Forbes, 11th Baronet]] and [[Talk:The Hidden Case of Ewan Forbes]] and they have continued pushing anti-transgender information ever since. It is their entire edit history. The entire thing outside of very rare edits on anything else. With tendentious talk page arguing making up [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Void%20if%20removed over 50%] of that edit history. 

In short, I see nothing actionable here other than furthering content disputes in a dishonest manner. [[User:Silver seren|<span style="color: dimgrey;">Silver</span>]][[User talk:Silver seren|<span style="color: blue;">seren</span>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Silver seren|C]]</sup> 23:16, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by DanielRigal====
There is a lot of verbiage here but the core allegation is that Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist shows a pattern of dishonest behaviour. That is a very serious, even blockworthy, accusation but the material purporting to back it up doesn't even begin to support it. What I see here is a load of largely unconnected gripes that fail to form a narrative. It is an attempt to make a mountain out of whatever molehills can be found and most of them aren't even real molehills. There is no dishonesty here. Well, none that can be pinned on Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist, anyway... --[[User:DanielRigal|DanielRigal]] ([[User talk:DanielRigal|talk]]) 23:56, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by LokiTheLiar====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|user=LokiTheLiar}}
I'd like to suggest a [[WP:BOOMERANG]] here for VIR (not Samuelshraga, their concerns are IMO incorrect but in good faith), because many of their diffs are themselves extremely misleading.

1. This diff is to YFNS explicitly distinguishing between the interim and final report. She also didn't even mention the source that said the interim report wasn't peer reviewed. She says that neither was peer reviewed because that's common knowledge and we all agreed including in the second discussion linked.

2/3. It's true Pubmed said it's a letter, and it's true policy says we shouldn't use things Pubmed says are letters. I agree this is likely a mistake in context, but it's not a lie.

4. James Esses was [https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/15/student-psychotherapist-wins-apology-over-expulsion-for-gender-critical-views expelled from his program after campaigning against a ban against conversion therapy]. This is literally the first source for "James Esses conversion therapy" on Google, BTW.

5. YFNS explains in the edit summary in detail why she thinks the text she removed is an [[WP:NPOV]] violation.

6. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gender_dysphoria_in_children&oldid=1254371017#Persistence Here is the discussion on the talk page where that edit was discussed and reached consensus]. In fact, VIR themselves participated, so they know full well why the talk page didn't like that edit. (Also the second article linked here passed GA review just recently.)

7. Trimming an overly-detailed description of the methodology of a study is not a bad edit. We don't need to describe why the review thought those 5 studies were bad, and we definitely don't need to describe what the conclusions of 5 studies the review thought were bad were.

8. It is a myth that 80% of children with gender dysphoria or who identify as trans will not grow up to be trans. That is very well-sourced, and the article including that section passed GAR just recently. The studies that found the 80% number were studying something much broader and then were used to claim that specific thing, which is false. That's almost the definition of a myth.

9. Admittedly, this should have been brought to AE instead of someone's talk page. But especially in the context of the previous points I think it should be clear why YFNS thinks you're a POV-pusher.

10. Evaluating the reliability of sources is a thing you're supposed to do in discussions, especially about [[WP:MEDRS]] sources. I also think that YFNS's evaluations of sources tend to be pretty good, FWIW.

11. TBH I don't like the first sentence of this either. The rest is well-sourced, though.

12. It's almost a direct quote from her. The recording is publicly available. It was a major controversy at the time. I don't know what else you'd want.

For 1, 4, 6, and 8 especially I don't think any good-faith editor could have reasonably claimed what VIR claimed about those diffs. All of these descriptions strike me as biased, but those four especially strike me as just lies. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 04:41, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

: Re VIR on 6/7/8: [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9829142/#s022 Here's] the conclusion of that review. It's not kind to the idea of "desistence" to the point where "myth" is a fair characterization. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 16:45, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
: @{{u|Valereee}} The "lie" Sweet's alleging is that there was a consensus to keep, [[Talk:Cass_Review/Archive_12#Counts| which there was]]. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 23:26, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
:: True, "far-right" was replaced with "anti-trans"... at YFNS's own suggestion. That was the consensus. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 00:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Sweet6970====
I am astonished that {{u|SarekOfVulcan}} says that {{u|Void if removed}} is {{tq|clearly misrepresenting}} their diffs. To take just one: VIR’s diff 11 is the worst BLP violation I have ever seen. I commented at the time: 
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1272422058]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=next&oldid=1272431620]

Regarding VIR’s diff 4 - the comments on James Esses and exploratory therapy - I initiated the discussion with an objection to a link in a quotation. Here is the whole discussion: 
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gender-critical_feminism/Archive_8#h-MOS_guidelines_on_links_and_exploratory_therapy_%E2%80%93_James_Esses_BLP-20240826154600]
[[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 21:13, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

In reply to YFNS about diff 11- the BLP violation which I objected to was this: {{tq| Trans advocates have worried Cass was linked to broader far-right activism due to her alleged ties to a [[LGBTQ rights in Florida#healthcare|working group that harshly restricted transgender healthcare in Florida]].}}. '''YFNS says that the discussion {{tq|led to consensus to keep the material.}} No it didn’t.''' [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 22:31, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

Reply to YFNS:It is plain that the BLP violation I objected to was the reference to ‘far-right’. As I said in the 2nd diff I provided: {{tq|Your edit was plainly a smear that Dr Cass is connected with the far right.}}. '''Contrary to your assertion above, there was no consensus to keep this.''' [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 23:04, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

{{u|SarekOfVulcan}} I had thought it was too obvious to mention that I was not counting vandalism. Are you saying that you don’t think it is a problem that Wikipedia should defame an eminent paediatrician by suggesting that she is connected to far-right politics? Also, note that '''YFNS has made a misleading statement on this page – saying that the discussion {{tq|led to consensus to keep the material.}} It didn’t.''' Are you also unconcerned about the potential defamation of James Esses, who had won a legal case for discrimination? [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 14:22, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Another ‘quack’ example, from May 2025 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=prev&oldid=1289485690] and the subsequent discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AYour_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist&diff=1289599644&oldid=1286598489]. [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 13:36, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

{{yo|Extraordinary Writ}} {{yo|Valereee}} Don’t you care that YFNS lied about the ‘far right’ smear ''on this page?'' [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 11:19, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

{{yo|Valereee}} {{u|Void if removed}}’s comment on his diff 11 is {{tq|WEASEL-worded "concerns" a BLP may have far-right links, using one weak source citing a blog.}}.  In YFNS’s statement, when she is replying to this comment, she says {{tq| VIR and Sweet6970 participated in the talk discussion that led to consensus to keep the material[71] }}. But the material in question is the ‘far right’ smear here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1272326663] . The result of the discussion was that the ‘far-right’ smear was '''''not''''' kept. [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 22:46, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

As I have already said, and contrary to what Loki has just said, the consensus to keep did '''*not* include the far-right smear'''. [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 23:43, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by MilesVorkosigan====
Obviously, support closing with no action taken regarding YFNS. I understand that reports here are supposed to involve only the two original editors, but VIR should still be cautioned about making sure that their claims of what a diff says need to be '''much''' more accurate than they are here.[[User:MilesVorkosigan|MilesVorkosigan]] ([[User talk:MilesVorkosigan|talk]]) 17:58, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

*I checked one of the later links, the 2.2.2025 one from [[User:Samuelshraga|User:SamuelShraga]] where he implies that YFNS is lying about SEGM being FRINGE. The discussion on NPOVN is a bunch of editors agreeing that it is "outside the scientific mainstream". Nobody explicitly said "WP:FRINGE" but I'd say that this is a distinction without a difference. If this kind of thing is the best that they can come up with, I'd suggest that it's proof that YFNS isn't doing anything wrong. [[User:MilesVorkosigan|MilesVorkosigan]] ([[User talk:MilesVorkosigan|talk]]) 16:51, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Springee====
This is not an area I do much editing in but I’ve noted YFNS’s low level battleground/activist approach to the topic area.  YFNS was tbanned shortly after joining Wikipedia in part because they were making, in effect, attack articles aimed at BLP subjects and groups they disfavored.  Since requesting a lifting of that block they have maintained a POLEMIC section on their homepage “Honorable mentions” where they brag about the public reaction of people/groups who’s articles were edited by YFNS.  This sort of taunting article subjects serves no encyclopedic value and only would add to external views that Wikipedia articles aren’t be edited impartially.  
Recently Colin decided to step away from this topic area due to conflicts with YFNS among others.  The loss of Colin from this subject area is the sort of collateral damage that YFNS’s attitude has on the topic area.  It becomes toxic and few want to deal with the heat. One admin noted a YFNS appeared to bait [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1274188957] Colin.  Unfortunately, Colin couldn’t keep their cool and decided to leave the area for their own good.  That is unfortunate as they were a great example, as editor put it, of one of the most truly nonpartisan editors in this topic area.  
At this point I don’t see anything red line item that warrants a sanction/tban (other than removing the POLEMIC content from their home page), but I do think this is a return to the 2023 form and I think in the long term it will hurt Wikipedia by discouraging divergent views from working in this topic area.  Who wants to get in the constant fights?  [[User:Springee|Springee]] ([[User talk:Springee|talk]]) 02:00, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:YFNS's opening of the complaint below, especially given they were counseled against it's wisdom[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1294267208], further illustrates the BATTLEGROUND behavior of this editor.  They joined Wikipedia to engage in activism and it doesn't appear they have moved far from that objective.  This is an editor who pushes limited in many small ways then uses the administrative system to get editors who don't buy into their views removed when those editors, not unreasonably, lose their cool.  We saw this with Colin and now they are going after VIR below. [[User:Springee|Springee]] ([[User talk:Springee|talk]]) 11:43, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by LunaHasArrived====
With regards to YFNS sourcing the 80% part of the myth to the Karrington review, this figure and people describing that figure as a myth is a lot older [https://doi.org/10.1080/15532739.2018.1456390] [https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jaac.2015.11.015]. Both of the above were used in the section when YFNS added "approximately 80%" in brackets. The main problem here seems to be proper citations. 
[[User:LunaHasArrived|LunaHasArrived]] ([[User talk:LunaHasArrived|talk]]) 04:56, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
====Statement by Sean Waltz O'Connell====
I have concerns about this user too. Despite the community reaching a consensus on the source’s reliability, YFNS continues to reject it, making inaccurate claims about the the source's type and veracity:

Claims that the Economist article is an opinion piece: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1241738389]

Consensus at [[WP:RSN]] that it is not: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_450#The_Economist,_as_an_acceptable_resource.]

Repeats the claim that the Economist article is an "anonymous op-ed": [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1293279571] [[User:Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell|Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell]] ([[User talk:Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell|talk]]) 12:19, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Another example. Is it appropriate to characterize living persons as "anti-trans" in a wiki voice just for expressing critical views on the appropriateness of medical gender transitions for minors or critical reporting on the subject? The edit in question [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trump_administration_HHS_gender_dysphoria_report&diff=1288459499&oldid=1288449269] introduces a highly charged label without adequate sourcing, and reflects a partisan and [[Wikipedia:Tendentious editing|tendentious]] interpretation rather than neutral encyclopedic writing. This is a serious concern, especially when applied to Singal, a journalist who has written for The New York Times (a publication considered a reliable source under [[WP:RSP]].) Labeling him as "anti-trans" in a Wiki voice, without clear attribution to a backed-up reliable source that makes this claim explicitly, violates the principles of [[WP:BLP]] and [[WP:NPOV]]. 

[[Them (website)|Them]] that is used as a source is an advocacy website that cannot be regarded as a reliable source for such contentious labels, which should be avoided per [[WP:BLPSTYLE]] and [[MOS:LABEL]], unless they are widely used by reliable sources.[[User:Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell|Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell]] ([[User talk:Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell|talk]]) 08:24, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by berchanhimez====
I agree with Springee above. I think it's unfair for Colin to be basically "voluntold" out of the topic area by multiple administrators and closer, while YFNS is allowed to go on and on '''after being permitted back following a topic ban from the area'''. If anything, a topic ban that was successfully appealed is '''more''' of a "final warning" than Colin got - yet YFNS is being allowed because... I don't know why. Just because someone tries to remain civil (even though they fail) does not mean their behavior is acceptable. From [[WP:CTOP]]: {{tq|When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia's norms and policies are more strictly enforced}} and {{tq|Administrators should seek to create an acceptable collaborative editing environment within contentious topics}}. I implore admins reviewing this to consider the effect YFNS has had on this topic area with their behavior as a whole - rather than expecting specific diffs.{{pb}}As Springee says, Colin left this topic area partially because of the lack of support in enforcing CTOP "scrutiny". I add that I feel the same way - while I keep some articles in this area on my watchlist, I do not typically intend to edit them or their talkpages unless expressing my opinion once - specifically because of behavior like this. I understand [[WP:VOLUNTEER|editors, including admins, are volunteers and never obligated to act]]. But there's ample evidence YFNS is not part of an "acceptable collaborative editing environment" - from diffs and history as a whole. It shocks me to see admins opining they see no problematic behavior from YFNS at all.{{pb}}I understand transgender related subjects are a hot-button political topic now. But that does not excuse bad behavior just because people agree with the person who is behaving poorly. The topic area has already lost enough long-term/good-faith editors who were either forced out or who chose to leave because this type of behavior isn't being addressed. Specifically, [[WP:SPA|SPA]]s whose sole purpose contributing to Wikipedia is to further their viewpoint. YFNS' userpage makes clear their sole purpose here is to push their POV on transgender subjects:
*{{tq|I joined Wikipedia as an editor after realizing just how poor our coverage of trans topics has been}}
*{{tq|Hell, I still see editors try and whitewash gender identity change efforts.}}
*{{tq|I should know, I ... was interviewed on anti-trans disinformation on Wikipedia}}
*{{tq|I strive to document ... history and present of the organized hate campaigns operating against us.}}
*{{tq|I'm thankful to all my friends on and off the project who've ... kept me going through transphobia and harassment.}} (veiled personal attack)
*Their original username - ''TheTranarchist'' - says all.
YFNS is clearly only here to [[WP:CIVILPOV|push their POV]]. It doesn't matter if they are ''mostly'' civil. In CTOPs, CIVILPOV should be considered even more so than in other areas. I implore admins to consider one question - '''Is YFNS a net positive in this topic area, or not?''' There's many other editors who can "take over" making constructive edits. YFNS' contribution is not a net positive, nor is it necessary, and should be dealt with accordingly. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; [[User:berchanhimez|me]] &#124; [[User talk:berchanhimez|talk to me!]] 01:26, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
*Now that a [[WP:RFAR|ArbCom case is proposed]], I think it's only fair to '''everyone''' that this AE request be paused pending whether ArbCom accepts a case or not. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; [[User:berchanhimez|me]] &#124; [[User talk:berchanhimez|talk to me!]] 02:35, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by HenrikHolen====

My impression is that these allegations are, at their core, primarily content disputes, and that they warrant no action. I do, however, believe the arguments by [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] are problematic. 

One example, in your recent edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1294077069 05.06.2025], you claim that at a discussion at NPOVN, no one mentioned fringe. This is misleading. Editors characterized SEGM as “alt-med”, “outside the medical mainstream”, “anti-trans activists” and “political/culture-war org dressed up in science-y clothing”. These comments clearly support calling SEGM fringe. The discussion also revolved around whether the SPLC, which supported the characterization of SEGM as fringe, describing it as a hub of pseudoscience, was reliable. Editors agreed that SPLC was reliable for this claim, with no editor arguing against this. It is dishonest to suggest that this discussion did not indicate a clear consensus that SEGM is fringe.

====Statement by Black Kite====
I wonder if ArbCom is a good destination for this dispute.  There are clearly a lot of editors with [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] issues here, and whilst I am loath to suggest ArbCom because they sometimes get things very wrong, they do get things right more often than not.  Otherwise we are going to have more and more filings where pro and anti-trans editors are trying their best to remove their ideological opponents from the area. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 09:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by FortunateSons====

I'm seconding the suggestion by Black Kite. I'm mostly uninvolved here, but from the outside looking in, it seems less like individual problematic editors (though there are enough of those too) and more so the topic area's dynamic, which should be addressed as soon as possible. The sooner ArbCom takes a look at it, the better. [[User:FortunateSons|FortunateSons]] ([[User talk:FortunateSons|talk]]) 08:51, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

===Result concerning Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*{{re|Snokalok}} I did mention bringing allegations of rhetorical dishonesty here, not above but [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250530120000-Non-participants_(SEGM)|at AN]]. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 15:16, 1 June 2025 (UTC)
*As Loki says, while the original submitter may just be wrong, Void if removed is pretty clearly misrepresenting their diffs. I see no reasons to sanction YFNS at this time, but I'd leave the question of sanctioning Vir open, if the rest of their editing on the topic plays out like it does here. --[[User talk:SarekOfVulcan|<span class="gfSarekSig">SarekOfVulcan (talk)</span>]] 20:19, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
*: {{re|Sweet6970}} if ''that's'' the worst BLP violation you've ever seen here, you are very, very lucky. --[[User talk:SarekOfVulcan|<span class="gfSarekSig">SarekOfVulcan (talk)</span>]] 13:34, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
*[[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist]], extension granted to 1000 words; please use them sparingly so you don't have to request another extension later. {{u|Snokalok}}, I'm going to defer the extension request for now, but let us know after YFNS replies if you still have points that she or Loki hasn't raised. (You do still have another ~180 words.) A general reminder: while I don't mind considering issues related to the statement Void if removed made above, any broader concerns about him would need to go in a separate filing, per [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5#AE reports limited to two parties|the new two-party rule]]. [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 21:40, 2 June 2025 (UTC)
*:Without yet expressing an opinion on whether we <em>should</em>, we are allowed to add additional parties if we want to. @[[User:SarekOfVulcan|SarekOfVulcan]]: Would that be your preference? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 06:19, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
*::I worry merging that into this report would put us on the path to another trainwreck, though I don't have a problem with a separate filing at any time (including right now). [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 08:28, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
*::I would prefer to hear more opinions before making that suggestion, thanks. --[[User talk:SarekOfVulcan|<span class="gfSarekSig">SarekOfVulcan (talk)</span>]] 13:28, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
*Thoughts on Samuelshraga's diffs:
**1/2: YFNS didn't deny invoking SEGM affiliation; viewed in context she's just saying that it wasn't fundamental to her argument, which is not an unreasonable thing to say.
**3/4: perhaps these comments could have been worded more precisely (especially since Samuelshraga seems to think they refer to him rather than VIR), but that's not a case for sanctions.
**5: we can debate how the wording of that closure maps onto the wording of [[WP:FRINGE]], but YFNS's interpretation (point 1 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist&diff=prev&oldid=1292931640 here]) is not out of the question
**6: again, she's mentioning SEGM affiliation but arguably not using it as the gravamen of her argument
**supplemental diff: I'm not sure why you would assume this was intentional dishonesty; frankly I read your statement the same way at first.
*None of these are sanctionable, and when it comes to the natural imprecisions and ambiguities of talk-page comments, I think we need to assume good faith rather than imputing motives of {{tq|rhetorical dishonesty}}. I will try to have thoughts on VIR's diffs later. [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 06:57, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
*{{u|Void if removed}}, could you be a little clearer about which particular sources/statements you think 6/7/8 misrepresented? You can have an extra 100 words. [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 08:26, 3 June 2025 (UTC)
*And thoughts on VIR's diffs. Given the two-way claims of dishonesty, I think it's worth going through these individually.
**1: not really sure why YFNS didn't take out the RAND source once she was informed it didn't mention the final report, but she [[Special:Diff/1279859368|did eventually remove it]] after someone else complained, and it's [[Special:Diff/1291504309|a complicated enough situation]] that I'd assume good faith. The diff is from March; this has since been [[Talk:Cass Review#Peer reviewed|discussed more thoroughly]], so hopefully there won't be further issues with the RAND report.
**2/3: not sanctionable, per Loki
**4: does not describe any BLP as a conversion therapist. If I were VIR I would just strike this.
**5: content dispute
**6/7/8: I understand why VIR sees major policy problems with connecting the "desistance myth" phrasing (in boldface no less) to the older studies/80% figure on the basis of only the Kennedy article and Karrington review. I also recognize that discussion about this has consistently not gone VIR's way. I struggle to see a role for AE here, although I'd be interested to hear other admins' takes.
**9: apologized for
**10/15: I don't consider the FRINGE interpretation issues a conduct matter
**11: I agree with Loki this could have been handled better, although it was eventually revised with YFNS's agreement
**12: understandable given YFNS's explanation
**13: "bigoted quack" wasn't really necessary, but this was over a year ago
**14: describing the corresponding author as having led the study is so minor I wonder why it was brought here
:I don't think any of this warrants a sanction for YFNS. Assuming diff 4 was just misread, I'm not convinced anything here amounts to outright dishonesty from VIR, so I also would be reluctant to sanction him, although throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks is rarely a good idea. [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 00:49, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::Just a note that I am heading out of town for a while and will not be able to participate further in this thread. I'm just going to abstain as far as the result is concerned; other admins are welcome to consider my comments insofar as they're useful, but please also note the responses to them from other editors above. [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 00:35, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
* I think I'd view these types of variations in argument re: any given source as possible sealioning if it were all in the same article talk discussion, but I'm not sure making inconsistent arguments across multiple discussions in a variety of fora is really evidence of ''rhetorical dishonesty''.
:Also everyone commenting here should go read the draft essay at [[User:Tamzin/Arbspace_word_limits]], paying special attention to the paragraph that starts {{xt|And part of this is social and rhetorical advice:}} Using too many words replying to other commenters is not often a good reason for an extension. [[User:Valereee|Valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 13:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]], re: {{xt|Don’t you care that YFNS lied about the ‘far right’ smear ''on this page''?}}, I've searched both "far right" and "smear", and both times came up with your own posts. Can you give me a diff/explanation to the lie you're talking about? We're at 9k here, it's not easy to follow the conversation. [[User:Valereee|Valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 22:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
{{Hab}}

==M.Bitton==
{{Hat|Closetside is indefinitely topic banned from the [[Arab–Israeli conflict]], broadly construed. This restriction may only be appealed directly to the arbitration committee --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 14:51, 23 June 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning M.Bitton===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Closetside}} 03:34, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|M.Bitton}}<p>{{ds/log|M.Bitton}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[WP:ARBPIA]]
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; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
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<s> #[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Besor_Stream&oldid=1293579117 2 June] Per @{{u|Chicdat}} gaslights, POV pushes, bludgeons, and falsely accuses me of bludgeoning. Additionally, falsely accuses me of making irrelevant replies and ignores transliteration variants despite clearly being aware of their existence (Latinization of Hebrew and Arabic is not standard across the literature)
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Political_status_of_Western_Sahara&oldid=1293865039 3 June] Denies Reuters' reporting is reliable despite [[WP:REUTERS]] because the Kenyan government didn't confirm or deny the report in their official statement.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Emirate_of_Bari&diff=prev&oldid=1296044878 17 June] Insists 3O is binding, creating a new status quo ante bellum despite 3O explicitly being non-binding and being told so multiple times.</s>
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : 
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1182#h-Bludgeoning,_POV-pushing,_personal_attacks_and_incivility_from_M.Bitton-20250304080700] Blocked for  disruptive editing (quite similar behavior) 2 months ago. 
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=166875366]  Page blocked in January 2025 for one week, edit-warring
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=62724514] Blocked for disruptive editing in 2015. 

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MilesVorkosigan&diff=prev&oldid=1288466989]

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
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{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=M.Bitton|user=Closetside}}
Upon further deliberation, I should have avoided M.Bitton after the first AE report instead of engaging and following, especially to multiple pages even if his behavior in response may have been policy violations. I understand in hindsight that engaging and following him right after a stale AE report was a bad idea, even if I believed he was committing even more policy violations. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 20:34, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] that was for 3O. This was for what I considered to be policy violations as opposed to a legitimate content dispute. I now understand that I shouldn't follow - even for ostenible policy violations. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 20:49, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
::Finally 3O requires a neutral editor, following is ill-advised even if from the start the editor is not pretending to be neutral - like I was doing incorrectly. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 20:58, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

However, my complaint against @{{u|M.Bitton}} is legitimate. My behaviour wasn't perfect; I apologize and commit to improve not repeating it. A third-party accused M.Bitton of disruptive editing in the RM. Challenging Reuters's reliability despite being a seasoned geopolitics editor due to alleged "anti-Western Sahara" bias based on an agnostic Kenyan government statement is a textbook violation of [[WP:CIR]]. I was (and am) willing to withdraw both of these complaints if they accept Reuters as reliable and apologize for their bludgeoning in the RM. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 00:55, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

Quoting a Hadith [https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:1663| traditionally considered good] by Islam is not Islamophobic, just like quoting Leviticus 18:22 is not anti-Semitic or Romans 1:26-27 is not Christophobic. The article says some interpretations of Islam reject it, and even among its acceptors, some don't believe Islamic terrorism is valid martyrdom. Futhermore, I explained my reasoning (see the history) and Abo Yemen reverted everything without any explanation, a violation of [[WP:BRD]].
* The traditional translation is that the hoori are heavenly brides, so this isn't fringe. Hadiths are traditionally teachings of Muhammad. The claim that Muslim soldiers and terrorists believe in 72 virgins literally is cited in the body. Also, I easily found a source for the acceptance of the hadith's authenticity, so a false accusation of OR. Lastly, asking for a source turning out not to be in the same policy section as the one cited, is not sealioning - I looked in the section and couldn't find it, as expected. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 16:04, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

@{{u|Tamzin}} In the first paragraph of the "In counterterrorism research" the viewpoint is explained and isn't fringe: {{tquote|Assaf Moghadam and a few other researchers say Palestinians who are willing to die in attacks on Israelis are motivated by the promise of rewards in the afterlife, that are described in "Islamic teachings" and various hadiths.}} Even now, the lede says {{tquote|There is a controversial position held by some counterterrorism scholars that Islamic terrorists are enthusiastic about dying in battle because they believe that they will be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven due to the myth.}} While some others disagree, it isn't an overwhelming majority so the first isn't fringe. Saying a position is common isn't endorsing it - climate change denial is a common position that is incorrect. Nonetheless, I should have used controversial instead and attributed it to the counterterrorism scholars and its supporters in the West and Israel. Lastly, there seems to be a consensus that this is a myth and even though I disagree, I have no intention of editing against it now that it formed in the AfD as long as it holds. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 19:48, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Tamzin|Tamzin]] I also regret writing {{tquote|Muslim men, especially Islamic terrorists}} instead of just {{tquote|Islamic terrorists}}. It was a direct descendant of the Islamophobic tropes section, which only says Muslim men. I never implied that traditional Muslims support terrorism (indeed most believe terrorism is forbidden and thus the terrorists aren't eligible for martyr's rewards), similarly to citing the Amalek teaching in Judaism is not an endorsement of "Palestine is Amalek." Lastly, is there any action I can do for you to reconsider? I recommit to abiding by NPOV as I edit in the future and recognize that sentence is a violation, giving undue endorsement to the afterlife rewards position motivate terrorists. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 11:12, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Responding to @{{u|M.Bitton}} - the pot calling the kettle black. You baselessly accused me of wanting to "erasing Palestine" because I preferred Besor or Gaza. Considering you are disregarding policy to back your opinion, while policy backs up mine, this is unfortunately the most reasonable explanation imo. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 14:33, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

:Also I probably shouldn't "retire", rather use wikibreak but that's not against policy. Lastly, I'm genuinely open to improvement - I'm a relatively new editor eager to learn. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 14:44, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

:I also formally withdraw my allegations against M.Bitton. [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 17:49, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
::Pinging @[[User:Liz|Liz]] @[[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] @[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] as well [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 18:01, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] anything I could do for you to reconsider? [[User:Closetside|Closetside]] ([[User talk:Closetside|talk]]) 19:48, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : 
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:M.Bitton&diff=prev&oldid=1293867392]

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===Discussion concerning M.Bitton===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by M.Bitton====
All I can say is that Closetside (who is irritated by [[Talk:Besor_Stream#c-M.Bitton-20250602141600-M.Bitton-20250601184400|my !vote]]) keeps hounding and insulting me in order to provoke a reaction from me. This report from someone who edits nothing else but PIA articles, to push a nationalist pov,[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestine_exception&diff=1291119165&oldid=1282814388][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tell_Jemmeh&diff=prev&oldid=1291554516][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_militant&diff=1289589967&oldid=521388412][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_militancy&diff=1289589339&oldid=433411936][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bassel_al-Araj&diff=prev&oldid=1289466519][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli_bombing_of_the_Gaza_Strip&diff=prev&oldid=1292832900] (and many many more) is inline with the rest. [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 03:39, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

{{re|Richard Nevell}} after [[Special:Diff/1288477207|that retraction and suggestion to seek 3O]], a 3O was given by {{u|Nemov}} and the result implemented. Closetside [[Special:Diff/1292077456|reverted it]] and then started a RfC. [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 00:18, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

Closetside's timely "retirements", fake apologies and false promises are part and parcel of their usual system gaming (when facing sanctions). You'll notice that they are [[Talk:Besor_Stream#c-Closetside-20250617040600-Closetside-20250605123600|still casting aspersions]] (accusing those who disagree with their pov of being [[WP:TITLEWARRIOR|title warriors]] who are attempting to [[WP:RGW|right great wrongs]]). [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 13:09, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

{{re|Seraphimblade|Tamzin|Liz|Guerillero}} after realising that a TBAN is imminent, Closetside went on a disruptive editing spree: initiating a [[Talk:72_virgins#72_virgins:_Myth_or_Sunni_Islamic_doctrine|POV RfC]], recreating the [[Talk:Nuseirat_rescue_and_massacre#Requested_move_22_June_2025|exact copy]] of their [[Talk:Nuseirat_rescue_and_massacre#Requested_move_6_March_2025|last RM]] on the same article, and countless other edits such [[Special:Diff/1296885356|this one]] (essentially, [[Special:Diff/1292661739/1292801461|removing again]] the content that was restored). [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 11:32, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Rosguill====
I would appreciate clarification of what {{u|Closetside}} was referring to specifically in stating {{tq|I will withdraw this complaint if you concede immediately.}} ([[Special:Diff/1293863144]]) Concede what? That their argument was bad? That the IP's edit should stand? Something else? <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 03:52, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you for the clarification Closetside. Based on the subsequent discussion at [[Talk:Political_status_of_Western_Sahara#Kenya's_position]], it seems like there's more to M.Bitton's position than "Reuters is not reliable" and that they would have been willing to provide an explanation if given appropriate time (i.e. more than 35 minutes) and were asked collegially rather than with threats.
: As a participant in that discussion, it seems like you jumped to conclusions regarding M.Bitton's position, my own position, and the nature of M.Bitton's disagreement with the IP. I can't say that your comment is doing anything to help form a consensus regarding the actual content matter at hand--other than immediately and directly accusing M.Bitton of incompetence, your two arguments were: {{tq|The Kenyan government statement did not contradict Reuters' claim, so there is no reason not to trust Reuters}} which is orthogonal to the crux of the issue (n.b. most of the claims in the Reuters article are simply attributed to the joint Morocco-Kenya statement) and {{tq|With similar reasoning, a WW2 textbook that omits mention of the Holocaust is committing Holocaust denial, an obviously ludicrous conclusion!}}, which is the kind of statement that would probably earn someone a topic ban from Holocaust topics if it was expressed in a discussion actually concerning such topics. {{tq|Falsely accuses me of WP:HOUND despite this clearly being collegial following,}} from this filing statement, meanwhile, seems like the kind of comment a class clown would make to mock someone that is definitely engaging in hounding, and I am very puzzled to see it suggested sincerely. I'm also belatedly realizing that this dispute over Western Sahara doesn't even fall under PIA, so I'm really not sure what we're doing here at all.  <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 13:52, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
Closetside is an example of an editor whose EC grant acquisition resembles gaming, who then went on to become active in PIA. M.Bitton is an example of an editor who will be targeted until they are topic banned or blocked. [[User:Sean.hoyland|Sean.hoyland]] ([[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]) 04:26, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Samuelshraga====
Given that less than a week ago the previous report by Closetside of M.Bitton was closed due to lack of activity, and without any administrator saying they've made an evaluation and supporting any given result (correct me if I'm wrong @[[User:Liz]] @[[User:Barkeep49]] @[[User:asilvering]]), can I suggest simply re-opening that case and appending the statements/diffs here to there? Or the diffs and evidence from there transposed to here? If the evidence and diffs weren't actionable or had no merit, admins can still tell us that. If the filing did have merit, not so much time has passed to prevent addressing it (clearly the disputes are still live). [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 11:43, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Skitash====
Coming here from the discussion in [[Talk:Political status of Western Sahara#Kenya's position]], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Political_status_of_Western_Sahara#c-Closetside-20250604030000-Kenya's_position asking someone] to "concede immediately" and threatening an AE report (on top of the personal attacks) comes across as coercive and uncooperative. For what it's worth, the editor being reported seems to be engaging in good faith, just raising concerns over the discrepancy between an official primary source and a secondary source, which shouldn't be treated as a conduct issue. Meanwhile, the OP's successive AE reports, provocation, and hounding are the kind of behavior [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] warns against. [[User:Skitash|Skitash]] ([[User talk:Skitash|talk]]) 14:30, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Richard Nevell====
[[User:Closetside|Closetside]] has developed a knack of turning up on pages where M.Bitton is active. At [[Talk:Emirate of Bari]], Closetside [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AEmirate_of_Bari&diff=1288454056&oldid=1288341209 responded] to a request for a third opinion in what if we are assuming good faith may be considered a moment of poor judgement given how it could be [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Emirate_of_Bari&diff=prev&oldid=1288457600 perceived] and the likelihood that their involvement would not improve the situation. Closetside's arrival at [[Talk:Political status of Western Sahara]] – and without responding to a request for input as far as I can see – means there is a developing pattern. Additionally, on 2 May Closetside [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_the_Jews_in_Algeria&diff=prev&oldid=1288443415 reverted M.Bitton] on the article [[History of the Jews in Algeria]]; the [https://sigma.toolforge.org/usersearch.py?name=Closetside&page=History+of+the+Jews+in+Algeria&server=enwiki&max= three edits] the Closetside made within two minutes are the limit of their interaction with that article and its talk page, giving the impression that their interest was due to M.Bitton's presence.

In my statement in the previous case opened by Closetside relating to M.Bitton I said that Closetside treats discussions as debates to be won rather than attempting to work together to reach consensus. I would now go further and say that the behaviour exhibited here is approaching a breach of [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] (if it hasn't been breached already) and is harassment. [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 19:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:Closetside|Closetside's]] realisation that following M.Bitton to other talk pages may not be constructive does not appear to be a new revelation given their [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Emirate_of_Bari&diff=prev&oldid=1288477207 withdrawn 3O] at Talk:Emirate of Bari. [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 20:43, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Abo Yemen====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=M.Bitton|user=Abo Yemen}}
[[WP:BOOMERANG]]: Closetside's editing patterns are really concerning and nowhere near constructive. Apart from the probable WP:GAMING that Sean.hoyland pointed out, their edits on islamophobia-related content are... Islamophobic: They "created" the [[72 virgins]] article which used to be a disamb page which clearly stated that it is a misconception and "is a pervasive Islamophobic trope in non-Muslim societies," but they ignored that and created that article and called that myth "an Islamic teaching." In this edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_common_misconceptions_about_arts_and_culture&diff=prev&oldid=1294007355] they've removed the sourced sentence "{{tq|In reports of this in Western media some of the Arabic words translated as "virgins" could be more accurately translated as 'angel' or 'heavenly being'.}}" and pushed for their fringe theory as a fact. That is not to mention the fact that they've deleted 73,419 bytes from the [[Islamophobic trope]] article per... nothing [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamophobic_trope&action=history]. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 14:57, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:I'd also add that they were [[WP:SEALIONING]] at [[Talk:Besor Stream#Discussion]] <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 15:33, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{tq|1=Quoting a Hadith traditionally considered good by Islam is not Islamophobic, just like quoting Leviticus 18:22 is not anti-Semitic or Romans 1:26-27 is not Christophobic.}}<br>That wasn't the point, but there are no secondary sources on the hadith, no RS called it an Islamic teaching as you're claiming in that article, {{tq|1=Despite the hadith's traditional acceptance stemming from its classification}} is [[WP:OR]], and whatever the fuck "{{tq|1=There is a common position that Muslim men, especially Islamic terrorists}}" is <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 15:35, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Noting that the filer has retired from editing [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1294159702] <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 07:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:IOHANNVSVERVS|IOHANNVSVERVS]] Well then I still think that sanctions should be placed on them, just in case they un-retire again <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 12:16, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::okay so I've checked their userpage history and they seem to retire every time they get bored [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1294159702] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1279894998] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1279731210] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1279007136] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1231476114] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1228978122] <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 12:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::They also seemed to have previously "retired" when there was a case against them here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1279789462 case], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Closetside&diff=prev&oldid=1279731210 retiring message]. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 12:26, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::and they're back.... <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 09:40, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I support a topic ban on Closetside, and their "[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Closetside-20250622174900-Closetside-20250622173300|formal withdrawal]]" was made in an attempt to avoid the [[WP:BOOMERANG]]. This case shouldn't be closed without taking any action <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 18:00, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::::adding a note for future archives that Closetside has deleted 90% of their original filing: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1296847342#Request_concerning_M.Bitton] <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Special:Contributions/Abo_Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 19:44, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by IOHANNVSVERVS====
@[[User:Abo Yemen|Abo Yemen]], this is not the first time this user has [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Closetside#%22Retired%22? "retired"].

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning M.Bitton===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*I continue to not have time for this issue, but whether or it's formally merged (as per Samuelshraga's suggestion) I do think responding administrators should consider this case in tandem with the previous case which was procedurally rather than substantively closed. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 15:14, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
*Is there some unwritten rule that there has to be a complaint at A/R/E involving M.Bitton every week? We see the same names over and over again on this noticeboard, it just varies who is the filer and who is the accused. Is it possible to discuss your differences with other editors on article talk pages and DRN without seeking sanctions against them?<span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 01:58, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
* The western sahara diff is outside the bounds of any CT and should be dropped. --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 11:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
*:Based on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tamzin&curid=37536730&diff=1296846488&oldid=1296030883 this diff], I reject the withdrawal of the filing and would like the boomerang to go forward -- [[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 19:21, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
*No actionable claim has been made against M.Bitton here, just a vague wave to a content dispute and an out-of-scope discussion. Closetside, on the other hand, comes off as pushing an anti-Islam POV. [[Special:Permalink/1294008000|The original version of "72 virgins"]] is pretty bleak. {{tqq|There is a common position that Muslim men, especially [[Islamic terrorists]], are enthusiastic about dying in battle because they believe that they will be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven due to the teaching}} is as [[MOS:WEASEL|weasely]] a sentence as I've ever seen. The body of the article only gets to {{tqq|According to some researchers the story of the 72 virgins promised to suicide bombers in paradise is a myth with no basis in Islam, and it is an Islamophobic trope}} in the second paragraph of the third section, even there downplaying [[WP:DUE|the significance of that viewpoint]]. Obviously we're not here to rule on the merits of the article, but Closetside comes across as either unwilling or unable to comply with [[WP:NPOV]] in writing about such a difficult topic. I am inclined to TBAN <ins>from PIA, broadly construed as to include related topics regarding Islamic terrorism</ins>. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 15:38, 16 June 2025 (UTC), <small>ed. 09:48, 17 June 2025 (UTC) to clarify</small>
*I agree with the topic ban from PIA, both on the grounds above and that I think we need to start taking a firm hand against the use of AE as a means of harassment. That said, I don't think PIA gives us the authority to topic ban someone from the subject of Islamic terrorism in general; I think we could only do so insofar as terrorism which is linked to the Palestine-Israel conflict. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 12:21, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
*:Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close this request as above (a topic ban from PIA for Closetside). [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 16:23, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
*:My reading of the "any other reasonable measures" wording at [[WP:CTOP]] is that we can exceed a topic area's scope if reasonable, and we've done this on occasion in small ways. But I'm actually not proposing that here, just proposing that we stress that topics in the Islamic terrorism topic area that relate to PIA (such as [[72 virgins]]) are covered. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 03:09, 23 June 2025 (UTC)
*::Oh also, I forgot to say above that I think we should use the "appeal only to ArbCom" option that is available to us in the topic area, as is usually my preference given the challenges presented by PIA AN appeals (and to a lesser extent AE appeals). <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 03:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)
*:::I'd definitely agree on the "appeal only to ArbCom" part, and I think the specific reminder you suggest is in order as well. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 13:04, 23 June 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}

==Void if removed==
{{hat|{{u|Void if removed}} is warned for putting words in other editors' mouths instead of responding to what they actually said. {{u|Samuelshraga}} is warned for personal attacks against other editors. All editors are reminded that machine translation should not generally be relied upon when context and nuance is important, and especially so in contentious topics. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 18:33, 25 June 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning Void if removed===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist}} 20:42, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Void if removed}}<p>{{ds/log|Void if removed}}</p>
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[WP:GENSEX]] and [[WP:ARBPS]]
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
# {{Diff2|1197412084|Jan 2024}} Removes all sourced material on how the GC movement 1) has fought against the criminalization of conversion therapy and 2) argues that affirming trans kids is conversion therapy
# {{Diff2|1211832393|March 4 2024}} Adds misleading text describing a review ''explicitly'' not about ROGD as one into ROGD. Soon reverted per talk[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy&diff=prev&oldid=1212045192], where VIR tendentiously argued it wasn't "scientifically unsupported" with sources saying no evidence shows its real[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy/Archive_8#break:_'scientifically_unsupported'] 
# April 2024,[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1218543441&oldid=1218542001][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1218545580&oldid=1218545209][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1221335578&oldid=1221318991] slo-mo edit wars to remove a MEDORG saying several people involved in the Cass Review (CR) {{tq|have promoted non-affirming '[[gender exploratory therapy]]', which is considered a conversion practice.}}
# {{Diff2|1249695281| October 2024}} -He re-adds that only 12-27% of trans kids become trans adults based on an older source I removed/replaced with better MEDRS while trimming[[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1248507625&oldid=1248503217&title=Gender_dysphoria_in_children]], removes link to conversion therapy and most criticism of the statistic. On talk he argues tries to outweigh systematic reviews with claims from a CR report (which MEDORGS/RS explicitly called BS on) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gender_dysphoria_in_children#Persistence]
# [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Void_if_removed&diff=prev&oldid=1259837006 November 2024] argues he's "painfully aware [following NPOV] is often unpopular, and often in the minority".
# [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/Archive_1#Desistance_%22myth%22 January 2025] Argues on [[Transgender health care misinformation]] talk we can't say it's a myth that the data shows most kids grow out of being trans because "there simply isn't the data", restarting debate from #4. When consensus opposes, he restarts on the GA Renomination then GA Review[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/Archive_2#GA_review]
# {{Diff2|1276356829|Feb 18 2025}} Argues that an RFC on trans pathologization is too broad and "some" kids are trans as a {{tq|a maladaptive coping response to factors like trauma, abuse, homophobia (internal or external), bullying or other mental health issues}}, among classifying other FRINGE views regarding [[ROGD]], GET, desistance, etc as legitimate.
#* This is not the first time he's argued this false balance between pathologization and mainstream medicine[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Void_if_removed/Archive_1#Social_justice_approach]
# {{Diff2|1289947466|May 11 17:25}} Acknowledges his views are in the minority on desistance, detransition, [[ROGD]], and [[Gender exploratory therapy]] and he shouldn't "relitigate", proceeds to 
#* argue we can't say the data suggests detransition is rare[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1290018440], and that a review saying data shows it's rare (and likely overestimated) doesn't support that[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1290052505][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1290109019]
#* Argue that inclusion of sections on ROGD, detransition, desistance, conversion therapy etc are uncalled for and unsupported on MEDRS, though we have MEDRS in there too.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1289898133] 
#* Say the article should cite MEDRS that back up ROGD is misinformation (we very much do)[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1291780858]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kenneth_Zucker&diff=prev&oldid=1294089516 June 2025] VIR attempted to remove well-sourced content stating that the "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Zucker#Living_in_your_own_skin_model living in your own skin model]" is a form of conversion therapy, calling it just "controversial", trying to counter it without RS on talk

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : 
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive345#Result_concerning_Raladic December 2024] In an AE case filed against Raladic, administrators noted VIR's tendency to describe reasonable disagreements as "misrepresentation" or "misleading", sanctions were considered against VIR
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive340#Void_if_removed September 2024] AE case against VIR closed no action, though VIR was warned to take on board admin/editor commentary (to drop the stick more often)

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
* See past cases
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Void if removed|user=Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist}}
{{ApprovedWordLimit|words=720|sig=[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 00:29, 20 June 2025 (UTC)}}
VIR demonstrates a clear pattern of [[WP:TENDENTIOUS]]/[[WP:PROFRINGE]] editing across GENSEX. He repeats arguments across multiple forums and misrepresents MEDRS/RS to push a constellation of closely related FRINGE povs pathologizing trans people[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_106#RfC_about_the_pathologization_of_trans_identities].

He constantly attempts to override MEDRS/systematic reviews with commentaries, letters, primary sources, etc from [[SEGM]]. He makes mutually exclusive arguments such as "we don't know how many kids desist" AND "we can't say it's a myth that '''''we know''' most kids desist''. 
He takes a [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] approach where everyone is following NPOV wrong except him.

May 25th per Tamzin's call for more cases I asked them for general advice and began drafting. These diffs are the tip of the iceberg of years of CPOVPushing and I believe a TBAN is necessary.  [[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 20:42, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] not all diffs were sanctionable, they were to show patterns.
:Diff 4 is the start of consensus being against his view of "desistance". Diff 6 is him raising it at the trans healthcare misinfo article with consensus against. 
:* At the GA reassessment, most comments are about desistance.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1&diff=prev&oldid=1278352411][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1&diff=prev&oldid=1278352765][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1&diff=prev&oldid=1278451101][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1278596054&oldid=1278586002&title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1#General_sourcing_issues] (in that one claiming it's controversial to say there's no evidence people turn trans from mental illness)[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1&diff=prev&oldid=1278622622][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1&diff=prev&oldid=1278638792][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1&diff=prev&oldid=1278640499][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1278748130&oldid=1278747690&title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Transgender_health_care_misinformation/1]
:* At the second GA[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/GA3&diff=prev&oldid=1279848622][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/GA3&diff=prev&oldid=1280075339][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/GA3&diff=prev&oldid=1280077599]
:Diff 8's subdiffs are him repeating the desistance discussion again on talk. It would take many more diffs to show the extent to which he won't DROPTHESTICK on ROGD, detransition, and associated topics.
:It's not multiple content disputes, but pushing the same few fringe theories in all venues as he acknowledges consensus disagrees. [[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 23:36, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] requesting 50 words to provide context for VIR's claim I "exaggerated the scope of the Supreme Court ruling" [[User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ]] ([[User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|talk]]) 22:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : 
Notified[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Void_if_removed&diff=prev&oldid=1294288790]

===Discussion concerning Void if removed===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Void if removed====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Void if removed|user=Void if removed}}
I'd appreciate indication whether any action is to be taken in the earlier complaint before I respond to YFNS, especially in light of @[[User:Samuelshraga]]'s [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Samuelshraga-20250608103700-Statement_by_Samuelshraga_2|point]].

Aquillon [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287962374&oldid=1287960069&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers 145]] complains of {{tq | absurd framings}} but [https://supremecourt.uk/cases/judgments/uksc-2024-0042 is an intentionally close paraphrase of the source] ({{tq | People are not sexually oriented towards those in possession of a certificate}}), in response to YFNS [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=prev&oldid=1287863136 misusing FRINGE to try to insert unconnected material]. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1291307026&oldid=1291305674&title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation 139]] '''is''' about the article, and [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287804475&oldid=1287785056&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers 140]] is entirely sincere.  

Loki misrepresents diffs in which I provide '''multiple different''' machine translations for comparison, arguing not to quote '''any''' of them, [[Talk:Cass_Review/Archive_9#c-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20240929190800-Raladic-20240929170000|after YFNS]] and [[Talk:Cass_Review/Archive_9#c-Raladic-20240929223500-Void_if_removed-20240929195900|others]] posted machine translations. I'm seeking a compromise paraphrase, because the original quote in the article isn't from any translation presented on talk, but [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1249318558 from an unreliable SPS]. Loki accuses me of bad faith ("{{tq|swaps arguments}}") rather than ''learning about policy I'm not previously familiar with''.
[[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 10:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:Loki's {{tq | as of the time I '''assembled''' this}}/{{tq|to no apparant avail}} timestamp link is disingenuous when [[Talk:Kenneth Zucker#c-Zenomonoz-20250606092700-Void if removed-20250606092000|14 hours before Loki '''posted''']] there was normal, civil discussion on the subject of attribution and context. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 11:14, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] Thank you for the analysis - I would like to respond to your comments on the diffs on translation and sexual orientation. I think there is additional context. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 22:34, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Seraphimblade]] The google translated quote [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cass_Review&diff=next&oldid=1248511332 was added to Cass Review by Raladic] after [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1248480299 YFNS posted it on talk]. 
::On [[Puberty Blocker]] I replaced a similar quote with a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1248680522 summary]. Raladic [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Puberty_blocker&diff=next&oldid=1248680522 reverted], because "caution" didn't appear in a (machine translation of) the text. At [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1248760194 this diff] I was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=next&oldid=1248999677 disputing Raladic's reason for reverting], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=next&oldid=1248798662 ''because'' machine translations aren't authoritative] and that is why I wanted to avoid a quote.
::The whole exchange across two pages is my [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1250269855 arguing against directly quoting badly sourced translations] after other editors introduced them. 
::I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1250855486 proposed a paraphrase instead of a quote], which [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1250856292 got consensus] on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1250856381 both pages] and is still there to this day. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 00:07, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=prev&oldid=1287863136 YFNS exaggerated the scope of the Supreme Court ruling] and claimed it was somehow [[WP:FRINGE]]. I asked for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=next&oldid=1287865030 clarity], and got [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=next&oldid=1287930916 replies], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=next&oldid=1287962374 unrelated] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers&diff=next&oldid=1287971720 to the ruling], all still reasserting that it was FRINGE. I made what I thought was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287962374&oldid=1287960069&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers an obvious reference] to a [https://www.theguardian.com/law/live/2025/apr/16/uk-supreme-court-to-rule-on-legal-definition-of-a-woman-gender-recognition-certificates#:~:text=people%20are%20not%20sexually%20oriented%20towards%20those%20in%20possession%20of%20a%20certificate widely] [https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/supreme-court-live-woman-definition-latest-news-llhzj62xs#:~:text=people%20are%20not%20sexually%20oriented%20towards%20those%20in%20possession%20of%20a%20certificate reported], [https://www.doyleclayton.co.uk/resources/news/doyle-clayton-clients-prevail-in-landmark-supreme-court-decision/#:~:text=people%20are%20not%20sexually%20oriented%20towards%20those%20in%20possession%20of%20a%20certificate relevant] [https://www.spencershaw.co.uk/news/what-is-a-woman-supreme-court-rules-that-the-answer-is-biological/#:~:text=people%20are%20not%20sexually%20oriented%20towards%20those%20in%20possession%20of%20a%20certificate line] from [https://supremecourt.uk/cases/judgments/uksc-2024-0042#:~:text=people%20are%20not%20sexually%20oriented%20towards%20those%20in%20possession%20of%20a%20certificate the judgment], which I also subsequently quoted, to question how YFNS' bold assertion relates to what the source ''actually'' says.
::And I'm still not sure why you suggest I need a warning for spending 2 weeks getting talk consensus to '''remove ''' YFNS' machine-translated text after Raladic inserted it into a CTOP article. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 21:43, 23 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:LokiTheLiar|LokiTheLiar]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1248480299 No] its [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=next&oldid=1248509607 not]. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 07:36, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by LokiTheLiar====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Void if removed|user=LokiTheLiar}}
I've been trying to draft something similar since asked about it above, and while most of the things I'd have included are above, here's some that YFNS missed:

#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1248760194 1 October 2024] VIR insists that an LLM is reliable to translate Japanese because it supports his interpretation. 
#* He then [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1248815727 doubles], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1249020513 triples], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1249318558 quadruples] down on this insistence. 
# [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1249506831 5 October 2024] One day after quadrupling down on that, he attempts translation with an LLM for a similar reason on a different article. 
#* This goes unnoticed but only a few hours later he [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1249546767 swaps arguments] to "Per [[WP:NONENG]] {{tq | Editors should not rely upon machine translations of non-English sources in contentious articles}}", a thing  he's been repeatedly attempting to do until that point.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1278352411 1 March 2025] VIR (falsely) claimed that "The only MEDRS in the 'desistance myth' section is a systematic review that says best quantitative estimates are that 83% desist - which means it isn't a myth." 
#* This is cherry-picking a number the paper explicitly says does not matter because those studies did not define "desistance". The conclusion of [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9829142/ the study in question] is that desistance was "based on biased [...] and poor-quality research" and "desistance should no longer be used in clinical work or research".
#* It's also not true that was the only MEDRS in the section at the time. For instance, it contained [https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/gender-affirmative-care this position from the APA], which is a [[WP:MEDORG]].

Also, I note that VIR's [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenneth_Zucker&diff=prev&oldid=1294056257 justification on talk] for removing the description of Zucker as a conversion therapist quotes at length from several sources that say explicitly that he is a conversion therapist and does conversion therapy. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenneth_Zucker&oldid=1294160257#Living_in_your_own_skin_model As of the time I assembled this, others were trying to explain this to him], to no apparent avail. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 23:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

@{{u|Seraphimblade}} YFNS had [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Extension_request_2 already been granted an extension to 700 words on the talk page] that she ended up not using at the time. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 01:26, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

Quick response to Void:

a) At no point did YFNS say that humans were sexually attracted to paperwork or anything similar. What they said is that {{tq|The idea that the sexuality of trans people is determined by their assigned sex at birth}} is [[WP:FRINGE]]. Void's paperwork claim was a clear strawman at best.

b) Raladic's sourcing for her translation was ambiguous. If Void wanted to oppose it on those grounds, they could have. Instead they used machine translations to dispute the exact wording.

[[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 00:31, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

:I don't know why Void keeps linking that diff, since a) the section along with the only direct quote in the article predates YFNS's suggested changes; b) more importantly Void ''still'' could have disputed the sourcing at the time instead of suggesting their own machine translation. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 15:47, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Aquillion====
VIR has a [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] approach to the topic area; see eg:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289947466&oldid=1289871570&title=User_talk:Void_if_removed]: {{tq|I'd suggest testing the water with a point or two, see if you get anywhere or if the lines are already drawn too rigidly and it just becomes exhausting and futile.}}
VIR frequently assumes bad faith:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1291307026&oldid=1291305674&title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation] - the latter is worded to talk about "the article" but in a way that is clearly ascribing bad faith to its editors.
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287804475&oldid=1287785056&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]: {{tq|Editors may dislike this language. They may find it offends their sensibilities.}}
They take issue with the conclusions reached by sources by engaging in [[WP:FORUM]] arguments over them:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289473537&oldid=1289473344&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289481172&oldid=1289475893&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289412335&oldid=1289406632&title=Talk:Adult_human_female][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289543887&oldid=1289530599&title=Talk:Adult_human_female]
Note how they derailed this discussion with [[WP:FORUM]] arguments and clearly absurd framings:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287962374&oldid=1287960069&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]{{tq|Are you saying that it is a FRINGE position that human beings aren't sexually attracted to paperwork?}}
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287973864&oldid=1287972914&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]{{tq|I'm sorry you dislike UK equality law.}}
Inflammatory language, over a comparison that they are surely aware is commonplace:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289334151&oldid=1289330198&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]: {{tq|Firstly, that's a grotesquely offensive analogy that has nothing in common with this whatsoever...}}
--[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] ([[User talk:Aquillion|talk]]) 22:16, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Samuelshraga====
Classic YFNS to populate the "Diffs of previous relevant sanctions" section with non-diffs showing non-sanctions. I'm sure the rest of YFNS' evidence holds up though, after all it's been a whole week since she blatantly lied about me at AE[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1293421976]. [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 10:37, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] on reflection you're quite correct that my comment above is uncivil, and for that I apologise. 
:Not to detract from that apology, but the basic problem that YFNS cannot be relied on to truthfully report the content of previous discussions is a serious and ongoing one. I said very clearly to YFNS (multiple times) that her disputed argument wasn't the only one that she used.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist#c-Samuelshraga-20250529163500-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20250529153600] YFNS linked to the discussion where I had said this twice, and characterised my argument as the opposite: {{tq|he keeps saying my only opposition is SEGM}}.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1293421976] This in the context of an AE filing about misrepresentation of previous discussions to try and sway ongoing ones.
:So while the manner of my comment was clearly below the standards here, I think the substance is relevant.
:I'll also note that I was subject to numerous bona fide personal attacks in the YFNS filing which no admin sought to police.
:All that said, I do apologise for the incivility. The fact that standards may not be enforced elsewhere doesn't excuse my not living up to them here, however frustrated I may be. I will endeavour to do better. [[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] ([[User talk:Samuelshraga|talk]]) 09:06, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Snokalok====

Hey could we kindly request some admin attention on this? The case against VIR is made, VIR has continued to edit GENSEX while not responding to this thread at all,[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation&diff=prev&oldid=1294364732][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Fringe_theories&diff=prev&oldid=1294368651], and now this thread is just devolving into [[User:Samuelshraga]] - whose own AE thread against YFNS above found absolutely no traction, to the point of being described by [[User:Extraordinary Writ]] as {{tq|throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks}} - coming here and doing nothing but being unnecessarily disruptive towards her.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1294546259][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1293846366]

Tagging {{ping|Tamzin}} since they wanted more GENSEX threads, along with {{ping|Extraordinary Writ}} and {{ping|SarekOfVulcan}} since they were discussing the possibility of this thread being opened above.

[[User:Snokalok|Snokalok]] ([[User talk:Snokalok|talk]]) 10:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
====Statement by Sweet6970 - 2 (VIR)====
I am puzzled by {{u|Aquillion}}’s statement. The diffs they provided demonstrate that VIR edits in complete good faith – even with a heroic Assumption of Bad Faith, I can’t see how Aquillion could reach their interpretation.

I am particularly baffled by the supposedly ‘inflammatory comment’. This was in response to a comment by {{u|Snokalok}}[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1289334151&oldid=1289330198&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]    comparing the judgment by the UK Supreme Court on the meaning of the words ‘man’, ‘woman’, and ‘sex’ in the [[Equality Act 2010]] (''[[For Women Scotland v The Scottish Ministers]]'') to a judgment by the American Supreme Court ‘{{tq|that slavery was all fine and lovely}}’. This is truly grotesque. And Aquillion says that is {{tq|a comparison that they are surely aware is commonplace}}. I have been following the media coverage of the reaction to the ''FWS'' case – I have never come across such a comparison, and I can’t imagine how Aquillion could think that it is commonplace. [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 12:45, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by MilesVorkosigan====
If, as Sweet6970 says, VIR's argument about whether people are attracted to pieces of paper was made in good faith, then this is an issue of WP:CIR and we need to make sure that VIR is able to understand complex issues at a level that enables them to usefully contribute to contentious topics.

Also, as in the other case, I'd suggest that editors be reminded to do a bit more work to ensure that their claims about what a diff says match what the diff really says. People check those. [[User:MilesVorkosigan|MilesVorkosigan]] ([[User talk:MilesVorkosigan|talk]]) 16:34, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by LunaHasArrived====
Just a note that in the above section on Your Friendly Neighbourhood Socialist that Void if Removed's behaviour was discussed for a brief time and therefore might be worth a read. I think VIR's behaviour was mostly analysed by Loki and then discussed briefly by admins but obviously one would have to read more to get the full picture. 
[[User:LunaHasArrived|LunaHasArrived]] ([[User talk:LunaHasArrived|talk]]) 16:47, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
I forgot about SilverSeren's comment about VIR in the above section, that would also be worth a look at.
[[User:LunaHasArrived|LunaHasArrived]] ([[User talk:LunaHasArrived|talk]]) 20:10, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

@[[user:Seraphimblade]] In regards to diff 2 the main point would be that a review titled "a PRISMA systematic review of adolescent gender dysphoria" (note the lack of onset) that specifically says that they changed the scope of the review because of the lack of evidence on AOGD / ROGD should not be described as a systematic review on AOGD / ROGD and to do so is a misrepresentation of the source. I'll note that the review says they changed the scope just above the cherry picked quote VIR chose to use so there's no way he missed it. There probably is a side point one could make about the differences between Adolescent Vs rapid but given the review did not review either because there was no evidence on either it seems rather mute. [[User:LunaHasArrived|LunaHasArrived]] ([[User talk:LunaHasArrived|talk]]) 14:16, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

<s>Just a note that there exists a diff limit as well as a word limit. By my count VIR is now at 29 diffs.</s> [[User:LunaHasArrived|LunaHasArrived]] ([[User talk:LunaHasArrived|talk]]) 08:13, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Sean Waltz O'Connell====
This certainly looks like retaliatory reporting. I think the diffs presented by YFNS show that this user has engaged in tendentious editing themselves. To present gender exploratory therapy as "conversion therapy" in a wiki voice when sources diverge on the topic is not acceptable. For example, a major British MEDORG, the United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy (UKCP), strongly disagrees with such claim: [https://www.psychotherapy.org.uk/news/ukcp-guidance-regarding-gender-critical-views/] While one can debate which view represents the majority or minority opinion, presenting a contested claim as fact when there is ongoing disagreement within the scientific community constitutes POV editing. [[User:Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell|Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell]] ([[User talk:Sean Waltz O&#39;Connell|talk]]) 08:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by Aaron Liu====
This is not a petty retaliatory filing. This is just formalizing the many asks for a boomerang against Void in the YFNS ArbitrationEnforcement request. I strongly recommend any admins evaluating this request to read [[#Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist]], which already has several extended statements and some evaluations from other uninvolved admins. (And for that reason I feel like maybe this should've just converted the original filing?) [[User:Aaron Liu|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span>]] ([[User talk:Aaron Liu#top|talk]]) 00:03, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Void if removed|Void]] FYI diff numbers change whenever some diff links above you change, e.g. a different thread gets archived. It's probably better for you to just repost the links; I don't think replacing a number with a link changes the word count. [[User:Aaron Liu|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span>]] ([[User talk:Aaron Liu#top|talk]]) 23:36, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
:I don't see the personal attacks @[[User:Samuelshraga|Samuelshraga]] says were made against him in the AE filing. [[User:Aaron Liu|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span>]] ([[User talk:Aaron Liu#top|talk]]) 11:29, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by berchanhimez====
This should be at least ''paused'' until the [[WP:RFAR|ArbCom case request]] is resolved one way or another. It can be resumed if ArbCom doesn't take up the case, at which point I may have further statements. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; [[User:berchanhimez|me]] &#124; [[User talk:berchanhimez|talk to me!]] 02:33, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Raladic====
Given Seraphimblade's statement below that the AE cases should proceed regardless of if ArbCom take up the bigger issue at play, making a statement here.
I've not been editing in the past 6 months as I had to take a wikibreak due to the mental toll it took on me, but I continued to poke my head in to read (it's hard to fully let go) every now and then.
That being said, the irony is not lost on me that some of the points contended here by the report, are making some of the very same/similar points that I and others made about VIR's behavior in the  [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive340#Void_if_removed|AE request from last year]] - it indeed appears a lot of VIRs behaviors and action from then are just as applicable now and nothing has changed in their tendentious arguing or editing.
Their history of saying variants of the same thing [[Talk:Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine/Archive_3#New_source|over]], and [[Talk:Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine/Archive_4#"fringe_medical_organization"|over]], and [[Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_108#Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine|over]] and [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive371#RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine|over]] (and having been rebuked every time by a large variety of editors across the different venues) trying to push the [[WP:PROFRINGE]] agenda of SEGM (an organization that has been marked [[WP:GUNREL]] at [[Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_393#Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine|RSN in 2022]]) is far past [[WP:DEADHORSE]]. It is surprising that not more people have caught on to the [[WP:TENDENTIOUS]] nature and started questioning VIR's motivation, or whether he has an inherent undisclosed COI (the fact that the organization has cited him in in a paper that he tried to argue for inclusion last year as was found out during a discussion back then was ignored other than him being warned about COI) and how much time all these repeated discussions have cost the community at large. This repeated pattern of trying to defend the organization [[WP:WINDMILL|as if there were dragons at play]] that has been ongoing for YEARS at this point, so I ask AE to consider the cost that the community is paying for this. [[User:Raladic|Raladic]] ([[User talk:Raladic|talk]]) 05:29, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning Void if removed===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*Without commenting on the substance here, I don't think we can very well reject a report like this for being retaliatory while also enforcing a two-party rule on each case—not unless it's a case where someone's like, trawled through the contribs of the person who presented evidence against them to find some unrelated minor violations, as with {{slink|Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive351#Smallangryplanet}} (although that was subject-vs.-filer regardless). There needs to be some procedurally valid way that someone can say "I think this third party is in fact in the wrong", else we've essentially made [[WP:VEXBYSTERANG]] not apply to AE, which I don't think was ArbCom's intent in adding the rule. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 00:36, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*I'd agree with Tamzin, and would actually ''prefer'' that complaints against third parties go on separate threads, else they just result in trainwrecks with everyone pointing the finger at everyone else. I'll try to get more into the substance of this request later today. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 13:38, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*:(Also, I'll add, after starting to look at some of the related threads, I appreciate everyone's efforts thus far to keep within the word count limits, but will note that going forward they will be ''strictly'' enforced here. You can ask for an extension if you really need one to present relevant information, but if it's just to argue back and forth with other people involved, don't expect to get one for that reason.) [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 14:44, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*So, after reviewing this, here's what I'm seeing:
*:Diff 1 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1197412084]) appears to be a content dispute.
*:Diff 2 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1211832393]) looks to be a claim of source misrepresentation, but I do not see anything in the cited source stating that it is explicitly not about ROGD, and while the source doesn't say it is, either, three citations in it do mention it. I would need more specifics to find this to be a clear and unambiguous source misrepresentation.
*:Diff group 3 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1218543441&oldid=1218542001], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1218545580&oldid=1218545209], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1221335578&oldid=1221318991]) do indeed appear to be a slow motion edit war, but this is over a year old. I am not inclined to sanction for edit warring on something this stale, but would advise that this type of behavior not be repeated.
*:Diff 4 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1249695281]) appears to be a content dispute.
*:Diff 5 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Void_if_removed&diff=prev&oldid=1259837006]) is at most a mildly snarky comment; I would not sanction based on that.
*:Diff 6 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transgender_health_care_misinformation/Archive_1#Desistance_%22myth%22]) is a discussion of a source on a talk page, which is a normal content discussion. There is a large volume of discussion on the GA-related subpages, so if it's asserted that Void if removed had some inappropriate conduct there, specific diffs would be needed.
*:Diff 7 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1276356829]) was a comment and clarification of a position at a request for comments. That is a normal part of the RfC process.
*:Diff 8 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1276356829]) is a comment on one's own talk page, for which there is considerable latitude. The other diffs in this group are content discussions of how best to present a source, and I do not see their connection to the talk page post.
*:Diff 9 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kenneth_Zucker&diff=prev&oldid=1294089516]) appears to be a content dispute.
*:There were also diffs presented by other editors. In the interest of brevity, I'm not going to list all those here, only the ones which are of some concern. The rest look to be content issues or discussion over such.
*:In this diff ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Puberty_blocker&diff=prev&oldid=1248760194]), Void if removed states {{tq|I am not a Japanese speaker, so I'm relying on machine translation.}}. Especially in contentious areas where context and nuance may matter a great deal, one should not rely on machine translation, and I am especially unimpressed with Void if removed's continued insistence on using those translations. That is especially true given that Void if removed (correctly) later recognizes that machine translations can even contradict one another, and are not particularly reliable, especially when nuance is of importance ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1249506831]). I would, at minimum, want Void if removed to undertake ''not'' to rely on machine translation for contentious issues going forward.
*:In this diff ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287962374&oldid=1287960069&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]), Void if removed states {{tq|Are you saying that it is a FRINGE position that human beings aren't sexually attracted to paperwork?}} No other editor had suggested any such thing, so that assertion is irrelevant and, frankly, bizarre. Similarly, in this diff ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1287973864&oldid=1287972914&title=Talk:For_Women_Scotland_Ltd_v_The_Scottish_Ministers]), Void if removed again puts words in other editors' mouths by stating {{tq|I'm sorry you dislike UK equality law.}} Again, no one had said that. It is not appropriate to put words in someone else's mouth, and that most certainly needs to stop happening. [[WP:IDHT|Respond to what people actually said]], don't put things in their mouth that they didn't say.
*In conclusion, I would not topic ban Void if removed at this time, but given previous issues, I think a warning for inappropriate use of machine translation and putting words in other editors' mouth (while [[WP:IDHT|not responding to what they actually said]]) would be in order. I also would give at the least a warning to {{u|Samuelshraga}} for their totally inappropriate [[WP:NPA|personal attack]] in this very thread, and I would consider more than that&mdash;if an editor can't even conduct themself appropriately at AE, I have little confidence in their ability to do so elsewhere in a contentious topic. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 22:14, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
*:{{u|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist}}, as above, the word limits will be strictly enforced. As I would've given you the extension to respond, I'll give you the extra 220 words, but any more without receiving a further extension will be removed. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 00:26, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
*:(As a reminder to reviewing admins, if you approve an extension for someone at some other place than this request, please note that here somehow, either by using the template or just making a comment in this section. Not everyone will know about discussions held elsewhere.) [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 10:47, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
*:I'd appreciate some additional admin input, but I know a fair few are rather burned out on this whole area. If anyone would like to chime in that would be great, else if no one does within a day or two, I'll close as above. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 16:19, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
* I am very much against giving any additional word extensions here --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 08:18, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
*:The google translate problem [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cass_Review&diff=prev&oldid=1248480299 is not just VIR]. I would generally warn everyone against the use of machine translations in contentious topics instead of just one person -- [[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 08:25, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
*::I'm good with that. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 11:10, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}

==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Göycen==
<small>''Procedural notes: Per the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures#Enforcement|rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals]], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>

<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors.  Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see [[WP:UNINVOLVED]]).''</small>

; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Göycen}}

; Sanction being appealed : Indefinite block for topic ban violations, see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=169773261 block log] and see [[Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2025#User sanctions (AA)|enforcement log]]

; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Firefangledfeathers}}

; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 14:59, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

===Statement by Göycen===

I am writing to appeal my indefinite block. I fully understand that my editing on contentious topics led to this, and I want to explain the context to show that I have learned from my mistakes.
* When I first started on Wikipedia last year, I began contributing without a full understanding of some important guidelines, which I now recognize is not an excuse. My extended confirmed status was revoked for [[WP:GAME]]. This happened because right after getting the status, I started editing contentious topics. To get the status, I had tried to align Turkish Wikipedia's geographic naming conventions with the English one. In Turkish Wikipedia, village names are organized under city names, but there was no clear standard for Turkish places on English Wikipedia. Without looking for a guideline, I moved many pages. I genuinely thought this was a helpful contribution that would also help me gain extended confirmed status. I now understand this was disruptive. I should have checked for country specific guidelines first, or used the main geographic naming and redirecting guidelines. My extended confirmed status was rightly revoked.
* My extended confirmed status is an important part of this context. I used to mistakenly believe that reverting disruptive edits in good faith could not violate guidelines(including my last appeal). I now understand this was wrong and why I received warnings. In the time between gaining and losing my status, I was in disputes with two other users. This was discussed on the [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1159#c-Firefangledfeathers-20240626153500-AirshipJungleman29-20240626150800|ANI board]], and because my status was revoked during the discussion, I was no longer allowed to participate. During ANI board discussion, I was advised to use talk pages instead of edit warring or going to ANI. So I started writing on the talk page of each disputed topic and pinging the editor involved. This was another violation, with [[WP:ASPERSIONS|aspersions]] and [[WP:CIV|civility issues]]. My continued involvement was inappropriate. At the time, I did not fully grasp that this meant I also had to stay away from the talk pages itself after losing my status.  Continuing to reply earned me a 24 hour ban and indefinite topic ban from AA related pages. Immediately after the 24 hour ban, this time in a more civil way I wrote again to a talk page of an article, which led to another week of ban.
* My most recent indefinite block was for reverting edits on Armenia Azerbaijan related food pages. The edits were from a suspected sockpuppet user, and one the page is connected to the Armenia Azerbaijan conflict. I genuinely believed I was improving the articles and knew the edits were borderline. However, I mistakenly thought my good faith intentions justified my actions, Since I was not really editing heated topics. On the Pekmez page, which was not protected at the time, I made an obvious violation by reverting an edit based on Armenia Azerbaijan dispute.
* Finally, it is important I explain why most of my edits were in contentious areas. It became a personal issue. Outside of the problems with the two editors, most of my edits were reverts of a single user. When I started editing, I found an IP address making disruptive edits, pushing POV with sources that were impossible to check. I took this very seriously and even went to city libraries to verify the sources, which did not support the edits. After more research, I found this was a sockpuppet of a known [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Əzərbəyəniləri/Archive|disruptive user]]. Looking at long years of edits from related sockpuppet accounts, I saw major disruption on Azerbaijan related pages, and these edits were often the latest versions, left unchecked. Seeing the effort and receiving a lot of Personal attacks from this user, which still continues, I began a personal mission to systematically revert these edits after careful verification. I did not revert edit contents that were supported by sources and check sources for each edit. As you can imagine, this took a lot of effort. I started sockpuppet investigations[[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Əzərbəyəniləri/Archive#c-Göycen-20240620085900-Suspected_sockpuppets_33|¹]] [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Əzərbəyəniləri/Archive#c-Göycen-20240624192100-Suspected_sockpuppets_34|²]], asked for admin protection on culturally significant pages. When the banned the user returned with another IP after couple weeks, I again reverted the disruptive edits, which violated arbcom guidelines and got me a warning. The only solution seemed to be gaining extended confirmed status. Shortly after I did, I went back to reverting the sockpuppet edits. This led to more disputes, my topic ban, and finally, my indefinite block. After these events in last june and july, I only made a few scientific edits. Recently, I saw the sockpuppet [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/2003:EA:4F00:0:0:0:0:0/40&target=2003%3AEA%3A4F00%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%2F40&offset=&limit=500 had returned] because the IP range ban expired, and I once again made the mistake of reverting their edits and violating guidelines. I provide this context not to excuse my actions, but to show that I now understand the entire situation, what I misunderstood or partly ignored before, and how I must act if I am unblocked.
* Following my latest appeal and after reviewing of Wikipedia's guidelines by reflecting, I now clearly understand that good faith alone does not justify making edits in contentious areas, especially when under a topic ban. I mention my "good faith" only to explain my past intentions and to assure you that my future contributions, if my block is lifted.

If my block is lifted, I sincerely promise the following:

# I unconditionally agree to not edit, comment on, or participate in any way on any page or discussion related to the Armenia Azerbaijan topic area, broadly construed.
# I will be cautious when dealing with disputes and interactions, especially those involving sockpuppet concerns.
# I will not take issues personally. In case of a dispute, I will always ask other editors or admins for help or consult the guidelines. I will avoid creating civility problems.
# If I receive a warning on any issue, I will immediately stop and learn about the related guidelines. I now recognize that not knowing the rules is not an excuse for my edits.

I deeply value Wikipedia and want to be a responsible contributor. I kindly ask you to reconsider my block in light of my sincere intentions, my clear understanding of my past mistakes, and my commitment to following the rules.
Thank you for your time.

Here is [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive354|my previous appeal]], which lacked full explanation and was vague and had a bit of [[WP:Listen]].
[[User:Göycen|Göycen]] ([[User talk:Göycen#top|talk]]) 12:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

===Statement by Firefangledfeathers===
{{u|Guerillero}}, Göycen already has an indefinite tban from AA, placed in June 2024. Topic ban violations led to a 1-week block in June 2024 and the indef block placed last month. One issue with their last AE appeal was that they did not initially mention the tban; this time, they do mention it in their second bullet point. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 13:17, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hoping this can get a little attention. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 16:21, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Asilvering|Asilvering]], I'm sure there's no written rules about consideration of more than one AE unblock request. I'd suggest to you that we'd be better off without an unwritten rule. We don't have such an abundance of AE admins that we can afford the attrition of multiple unblock requests, and this sort of appeal is not at all a review of the previous decline's merits. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 16:27, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

===Statement by asilvering===
Happy to answer any questions. With {{u|Rosguill}}, I was part of last month's consensus not to unblock, so for the purposes of appeal I think we're both as involved as Firefangledfeathers. (Liz was less of a "no" and more of a "not yes".) -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 22:55, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:Perhaps not fully to the same degree, but fully enough that I don't think it's right to take part in the main discussion. I wouldn't touch a regular unblock I'd already declined either. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 23:41, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
::Fair enough, @[[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]]. We're now at 2:1 on this, which isn't exactly [[WP:1AM]], but I'll take my lumps. I Don't Like It, but I like leaving editors hanging for two weeks even less. Will have another look. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 18:12, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

===Statement by (involved editor 2)===

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Göycen ===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)====

====Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)====

===Result of the appeal by Göycen===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
*Procedural comment responding to {{u|asilvering}} I disagree that AE admins who decline a request are as INVOLVED as the admin who placed the block. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 22:57, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
* I am open to this appeal, but the topic ban from AA needs to be real and not an informal agreement. --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 11:23, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*Just posting to prevent bot archiving; I'll try to dig into this more when I can. I don't want to see an appeal get archived without a decision actually being made on it. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 13:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

==MyGosh789==
{{hat|A talk page discussion is underway, and no further edit warring has taken place. {{u|MyGosh789}} is reminded that especially on a contentious subject, it is wise to follow the [[WP:BRD|bold, revert, discuss]] process rather than making repeated reverts. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 23:32, 25 June 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning MyGosh789===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|TEMPO156}} 22:45, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|MyGosh789}}<p>{{ds/log|MyGosh789}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[WP:ARBIPA]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&diff=prev&oldid=1288306573 1 May 2025] Changed the infobox to say the NRF has territory
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&diff=prev&oldid=1288307436 1 May 2025] Part 2 of the edit
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&diff=1295131256&oldid=1295130669 11 June 2025] Revert to restore the edit
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&diff=1295132517&oldid=1295132109 11 June 2025] Addition of source (blog post from [[The Organization for World Peace]]), which makes no claim about territorial control.
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : 
None

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MyGosh789&diff=prev&oldid=1295130781 11 June 2025] (see the system log linked to above).

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Fairly straightforward request regarding addition of factual errors. The first source cited ([https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/06/afghanistan-kabul-taliban-updates/ The Washington Post]) says "The Taliban on Monday seized Panjshir province, a restive mountain region that was the final holdout of resistance forces in the country, cementing the group’s total control over Afghanistan a week after U.S. forces departed the country." The second source ([https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2021/09/taliban-completes-conquest-of-afghanistan-after-seizing-panjshir.php] The Long War Journal) says "The Taliban completed its military conquest of Afghanistan and took control of the mountainous province of Panjshir after seven days of heavy fighting. The fall of Panjshir puts the Taliban in full control of the country and eliminates the final vestige of organized resistance to its rule." The third source ([https://www.voanews.com/a/frustrated-with-the-taliban-us-officials-meet-anti-taliban-figures/6885231.html Voice of America]) says "The NRF has executed hit-and-run attacks against the Taliban in some parts of Afghanistan but has not been able to hold territory." They added a source just now (the OWP, an organization I'm unfamiliar with) that does not make any statement supporting the assertion of a territorial hold on part of the province.

The contention that the [[National Resistance Front of Afghanistan]] is still holding territory and the war in Afghanistan is ongoing in any major way is simply not based in any of the facts we have available, and even the source that was added does not make a claim of territorial control by the NRF. It was a major disservice to our readers that this was up for over a month.
:{{re|Liz}} Sure, always happy to talk more about it. The sources they were using say the opposite thing, and the Taliban takeover is pretty SKYBLUE at this point in 2025, so after my one revert and warning I thought I'd just come here rather than try to engage further. If you think that's warranted, I'll explain further on the talk page. [[User:TEMPO156|TEMPO156]] ([[User talk:TEMPO156|talk]]) 00:30, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{re|MyGosh789}} Yes, they have some fighters scattered throughout the country including likely in Panjshir who do hit-and-run attacks but I haven't seen anything to support the claim that they hold territory in the province, in fact, the only information we have seems to say the opposite. [[User:TEMPO156|TEMPO156]] ([[User talk:TEMPO156|talk]]) 00:38, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMyGosh789&diff=1295134132&oldid=1295131511]
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->

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===Discussion concerning MyGosh789===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by MyGosh789====
To address what I thought were the users initial concerns, I included an additional source noting how they were based in Panjshir. [https://theowp.org/the-war-isnt-over-the-panjshir-uprising-against-the-taliban/] Despite this, the user still issued a complaint. I also later included a Washington Post article noting the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan's open presence in Panjshir.[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/08/afghanistan-panjshir-valley-taliban-resistance/][[User:MyGosh789|MyGosh789]] ([[User talk:MyGosh789|talk]]) 00:36, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
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====Statement by Noorullah====
I talked with this user (Mygosh789) on the talk page of the article, and the sources he cites makes no claim of controlled territory. When asked about it, he says it doesn't need to cite anything about controlled territory [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&diff=prev&oldid=1295148142] ... even though that's what he's adding to the infobox. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&diff=prev&oldid=1295146819] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&oldid=1295146819] His claim in a June 2022 source is contradicted by a December 2022 source months later as well, see relevant talk page discussion. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Republican_insurgency_in_Afghanistan&diff=prev&oldid=1295148142#I_now_have_added_a_reliable_source_from_2023_which_noted_the_NRF_being_based_in_Panjshir] [[User:Noorullah21|Noorullah]] ([[User talk:Noorullah21|talk]]) 03:06, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

===Result concerning MyGosh789===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->

*It looks like MyGosh789 started an article talk page discussion at [[Talk:Republican insurgency in Afghanistan]] to talk about sources at the same time that this complaint was posted at AE. Would TEMPO156 participate in that discussion? Have there been any previous efforts to talk about the source of this dispute? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 00:22, 12 June 2025 (UTC)


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{{hab}}

==Cfgauss77==
{{hat|{{u|Cfgauss77}}'s [[WP:XC|extended confirmed permission]] has been revoked as a standard administrative action. Cfgauss77 may reapply for the extended confirmed permission at [[WP:PERM]] after they have accumulated at least 750 total edits, including substantial edits that show constructive interactions with other editors. Cfgauss77 is cautioned to avoid posting [[WP:LLM|LLM-generated comments]]. —&nbsp;'''''[[User:Newslinger|<span style="color:#536267;">Newslinger</span>]]'''&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Newslinger#top|<span style="color:#708090;">talk</span>]]</small>'' 20:01, 25 June 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning Cfgauss77===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 17:30, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Cfgauss77}}<p>{{ds/log|Cfgauss77}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; Seem to be gaming Extended confirmed:
*Account created on December 10, 2024.
*First edit on January 16, 2025[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ravinder_Bhalla&diff=prev&oldid=1269814965].
*Lots of minor edits where they update rankings[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Connecticut_College&diff=prev&oldid=1275413278].
*They seem to make edits in quick succession and even get things wrong sometimes[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cfgauss77#c-JayBeeEll-20250212223800-Citation_falsification].
*On March 16 they become EC[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=168520714] and immediately go dormant.
*After a 1 month+ dormancy they suddenly vote on an super-contentious AfD[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Destruction_of_Israel_in_Iranian_policy&diff=prev&oldid=1295383228] that is currently subject to off-wiki [[WP:CANVASSING]][https://archive.ph/E774v]. They have never even taken part in a discussion on wikipedia before, let alone an AfD.

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cfgauss77#c-Vice_regent-20250613171300-Welcome!_2]]

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cfgauss77#c-Vice_regent-20250613173000-Notice_of_Arbitration_Enforcement_noticeboard_discussion]
'''[[User talk:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>(Please [[Template:Ping|ping]] on reply)</sub> 17:30, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
:@[[User:Liz|Liz]], it's not just the edit, but the fact that they rushed to 500 edits with a lot minor edits and went dormant as soon as they achieved the status. They then immediately pivoted. A user who was genuinely interested in university rankings would have continued past the 500 edits mark. I would like to see the user participate more substianally on Wikipedia before going into CTOPs, which is the intent of ECR.'''[[User talk:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>(Please [[Template:Ping|ping]] on reply)</sub> 17:01, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

===Discussion concerning Cfgauss77===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Cfgauss77====
I participated in a discussion that [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Destruction_of_Israel_in_Iranian_policy|any Wikipedia extended confirmed user]] could participate in as long as it was in [[Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith|good faith]].  As a newer editor, I was under the impression anyone could have a discussion about any topic.  I did not make any changes to articles, only tried to participate in a conversation.  Additionally, the accuser Vice Regent was cited [[User_talk:Vice_regent| for Serious Violations of Wikipedia Policy in Recent Edits]], and [[User_talk:Cfgauss77|reached out to me directly]] only because I am in opposition of this editor’s view.   
At this time, I am not going to defend my edit history (I will if I have to) because it should be irrelevant as I only tried to participate in a conversation, did not make any edits on any contentious topics.  I am happy to have any further discussions you deem necessary.  Thank you in advance for your time. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cfgauss77|Cfgauss77]] ([[User talk:Cfgauss77#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cfgauss77|contribs]]) 23:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)</small>
: @newslinger  For this reply, I used ChatGPT only to edit my response.  I wrote a statement, had ChatGPT edit it, then personally reviewed and edited it and finally posted it.  I understand that Wikipedia is a major source for that LLM, so writing a paragraph about a topic is just being circular.  I did not realize that using it to edit work was an issue.  I reviewed my ChatGPT history, and this was my only instance of doing this.  Obviously I will not do it again, and deserve any sanction you feel fit for that infraction. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cfgauss77|Cfgauss77]] ([[User talk:Cfgauss77#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cfgauss77|contribs]]) 09:37, 19 June 2025 (UTC)</small>
:@newslinger I have heavier family obligations that run from April-July.  As an FYI, the US College Rankings are updates annually around end of August/beginning of September, I fixed what I found, and will revisit if there is a need to do so. [[User:Cfgauss77|Cfgauss77]] ([[User talk:Cfgauss77|talk]]) 03:06, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
I have a question for you Cfgauss77. Let's say, hypothetically, that it was the WikiBias post on June 13 that made you aware of the AfD and caused you to vote on the same day (there is no way for me to know whether that is the case, so I don't care), do you think editors should be required/encouraged to declare that kind on information when they !vote i.e. how they became aware of a discussion? For example, let's say I'm a huge fan of Tech4Palestine, and they post something somewhere about an AfD with something like "This is mind manipulation and must be stopped!" (although they may be a bit too rational to do that, so maybe not a good choice), let's say zei_squirrel then, and that causes me to participate in the AfD. Do you think I should declare that alongside my !vote so that people know how I became aware of the AfD? I would also be interested in whether you think seeing a partisan social media call to arms post about an AfD or a requested move etc., then participating violates anything in [[WP:CANVASS]] or [[WP:MEAT]]. Feel free to not answer of course. And it goes without saying that admins are welcome to block my account for a while or collapse this if it is some kind of transgression e.g. [[WP:NOTLAB]] springs to mind. [[User:Sean.hoyland|Sean.hoyland]] ([[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]) 12:59, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning Cfgauss77===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*There is not ''per se'' a policy against being canvassed, although if it's a persistent thing it can be [[WP:MEAT|meatpuppetry]], and a closer can downweight apparently-canvassed !votes. Furthermore, there are multiple plausible ways the user could have found the AfD other than through canvassing. I don't love the immediate dormancy and pivot upon hitting EC, but I don't think it's outright [[WP:PGAMING]], so I'm not sure there's anything for us to do at this juncture. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 19:20, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*Just to be clear, this complaint is about [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Destruction_of_Israel_in_Iranian_policy&oldid=1295383228 one edit] that this editor made at an AFD? What sanctions is the filer seeking for this edit? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 05:30, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
* 1 out of 505 edits being in the topic area is not a reason to impose sanctions. This filing feels very battleground-y from VR. --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 08:27, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
* The central point of Vice regent (VR)'s request is the allegation that Cfgauss77 [[WP:PGAME|gamed the extended confirmed permission]] ([[WP:PGAME]]) because Cfgauss77 made approximately 502 relatively minor edits to articles prior to entering the Arab–Israeli conflict topic area, which is subject to [[WP:CT/ARBPIA|an extended confirmed restriction]]. The strength of this allegation depends on how constructive Cfgauss77's first 502 edits were and whether Cfgauss77's edits after entering the contentious topic area are compliant with policy.{{pb}}{{u|Cfgauss77}}, would you please disclose the extent to which you have used a [[WP:LLM|large language model]] (such as an [[Chatbot|AI chatbot]] or similar tool) to author your comments such as [[Special:Diff/1295383228]]? —&nbsp;'''''[[User:Newslinger|<span style="color:#536267;">Newslinger</span>]]'''&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Newslinger#top|<span style="color:#708090;">talk</span>]]</small>'' 14:41, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
*: {{re|Cfgauss77}} Thank you for your disclosure. Please be aware that, per the [[WP:AITALK]] guideline, LLM-generated comments in talk pages {{xt|"may be struck or collapsed"}}, and that comments such as [[Special:Diff/1295383228]] are not appropriate in discussions. (LLM-generated content is also inappropriate for article edits due to [[WP:LLM|these AI tools generally not being able to meet Wikipedia's quality standards]].){{pb}}I do want to direct your attention to [[Special:Contributions/Cfgauss77|your editing history]] prior to 27 April. Is there any particular reason you decided to stop updating university rankings after 16 March, which is the date that you accumulated 500 edits on your account? —&nbsp;'''''[[User:Newslinger|<span style="color:#536267;">Newslinger</span>]]'''&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Newslinger#top|<span style="color:#708090;">talk</span>]]</small>'' 17:30, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
*:: Thank you for your response, Cfgauss77. As Wikipedia editors have no reasonable way to confirm your explanation, I am going to disregard the timing of your edits (i.e. what Tamzin noted was your immediate dormancy after accumulating 500 edits). —&nbsp;'''''[[User:Newslinger|<span style="color:#536267;">Newslinger</span>]]'''&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Newslinger#top|<span style="color:#708090;">talk</span>]]</small>'' 21:27, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
*: At this point, enough information has been presented for me to suggest a course of action. Inappropriately posting an LLM-generated argument for the first time is something that an editor would typically receive a warning for, regardless of the topic area that the discussion is in. However, the permission gaming aspect complicates the situation.{{pb}}Per [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Cfgauss77&target=Cfgauss77&offset=&limit=500 Cfgauss77's contribution history], among Cfgauss77's first 500 edits, over 250 of those edits are updates to university rankings. These edits are rote in nature and involve either basic changes to numbers and links (e.g. [[Special:Diff/1276851335]]), or the insertion of near-identical sentences into multiple articles (e.g. [[Special:Diff/1280135170]], [[Special:Diff/1280134926]], and [[Special:Diff/1280134696]]). One of the purposes of the extended confirmed restriction is to help ensure that editors have sufficient experience before entering the Arab–Israeli conflict topic area. Because Cfgauss77 made a large number of rote edits, Cfgauss77 did not gain the experience that would be expected of an editor participating in this area, which partially explains why their deletion discussion comment (which is also their first-ever discussion comment outside of user space) was problematic.{{pb}}To help Cfgauss77 recoup their experience deficit, I am inclined to revoke Cfgauss77's extended confirmed permission (as a standard administrative action) and recommend that Cfgauss77 reapply for the permission at [[Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]] ([[WP:PERM]]) after they have accumulated at least 750 total edits, including substantial edits that show constructive interactions with other editors. (The 750-edit threshold is simply the 500 edits normally required to gain extended confirmed plus the 250 rote edits described before.) —&nbsp;'''''[[User:Newslinger|<span style="color:#536267;">Newslinger</span>]]'''&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Newslinger#top|<span style="color:#708090;">talk</span>]]</small>'' 21:33, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
*{{u|Cfgauss77}}, I would agree that we need to discuss your likely use of chatbots, and that you need to disclose any prior use of them. The appropriate use of chatbots on Wikipedia is "never", but if you've done that, say you have and then hopefully we can move forward from there. If you don't answer that, maybe we need to issue sanctions to prevent that going forward. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 18:08, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
*:I think Newslinger's proposal of removing ECP with reapplication allowed later is fine. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 14:22, 23 June 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== MilesVorkosigan==
{{hat|While no formal action is taken at this time, editors involved are reminded that [[WP:CIVIL|civility]] is a requirement of conduct on Wikipedia, and is if anything especially important in contentious areas. Editors whose behavior is severely or persistently uncivil may be excluded from the topic area, or in especially severe cases from Wikipedia altogether. Keep comments focused on content, not other editors. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 15:41, 23 June 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning  MilesVorkosigan===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Sweet6970}} 23:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks| MilesVorkosigan}}<p>{{ds/log| MilesVorkosigan}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced:[[WP:GENSEX]] 
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

1. 12 June 2025 00:27 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kellie-Jay_Keen-Minshull&diff=prev&oldid=1295145043] MV accuses me of lying on the Talk page of [[Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull]]. This was in a discussion about a source [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kellie-Jay_Keen-Minshull#Description_of_slogan] At that time, the only source for the statement that 'Adult human female' was 'anti-trans' was this [https://www.thenational.scot/news/23299549.posie-parker-anti-trans-founder-standing-women/] by the ''National'', which does not say that the slogan is 'anti-trans'. 

2. 12 June 2025 00:31 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MilesVorkosigan&diff=prev&oldid=1295145410] reverts my CT Notice on his Talk page with the edit summary {{tq|Undoing bad-faith template abuse by anti-trans POV-pusher}}. 

3. 12 June 2025 17:57 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tamzin&diff=prev&oldid=1295262091] refers to me as an {{tq|edit-warrior}}. 

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]): CT Notice [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMilesVorkosigan&diff=1295128498&oldid=1294970070] on 11 June 2025 at 22:00. 

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
My complaint is about the personal attacks. I think there may also be a [[WP:CIR]] problem here: MV perhaps does not fully understand sourcing requirements, and the meaning of the term 'edit warrior' as used on Wikipedia.

The ArbCom case is called {{tq|Transgender healthcare misinformation on Wikipedia}}. My complaint about MV has nothing whatever to do with transgender healthcare, it is simply about editor conduct, and I object to the suggestion that it should be paused for an ArbCom case which is irrelevant to the issue. [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 10:10, 15 June 2025 (UTC) 

If you read the discussions which Raladic refers to, you will find that her accusations are wholly without substance. 

James Esses discussion: I was correct, and successful in getting the wording changed. It is not wikilawyering to say that guidelines should be followed.

Only Raladic thought that these comments [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGender-critical_feminism&diff=1246653519&oldid=1246618540] were {{tq|hateful and transphobic}}.

Serving a CT Notice is not intimidatory.

RW 16.1 is described as a counter-vandalism tool. [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 12:27, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

response to Raladic’s post of 19:38 19 June 2025: Raladic has not interpreted the discussion correctly. She should not make unfounded statements about my motives. [[User:Sweet6970|Sweet6970]] ([[User talk:Sweet6970|talk]]) 20:40, 19 June 2025 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : 
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MilesVorkosigan&action=history]




<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning MilesVorkosigan===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by MilesVorkosigan====

I'm happy to change the 'lie <s>and claim that policy says two sources are needed</s>' to just 'incorrectly claim that policy says two sources are needed', that's fair, I should not have assumed their familiarity with policy. 

In fact, I'll just go do that now, it appears to be the forming consensus, no need to pause that until after the ArbCom case over edit-warring. [[User:MilesVorkosigan|MilesVorkosigan]] ([[User talk:MilesVorkosigan|talk]]) 19:56, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

Edited - I misremembered the comment and quoted myself incorrectly. In any event, I've struck through the section where I assumed they were lying. Ah, and I see someone already noticed that. Please remember that I am not currently part of an AE case where uninvolved editors have repeatedly asked that people be more forthright and accurate when they make claims about what diffs say. AGF goes both ways, right?
 
@User:LokiTheLiar - The line from the source that made it stand out for me was "The group’s website says it aims to ensure the word woman “is retained to mean ‘adult human female’ only”. It adds: “2023 is the year of the TERF [trans-exclusionary radical feminist]”." Seems pretty clear how the subject of the article intends it to be taken.

But that isn't intended as a defense on your point about assuming bad faith.[[User:MilesVorkosigan|MilesVorkosigan]] ([[User talk:MilesVorkosigan|talk]]) 20:12, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by LokiTheLiar====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
Just for context, the source Sweet claims does not source the claim contains this paragraph:

{{tq2|Parker is a podcaster and campaigner who has spoken across the world against trans rights. She is credited with coining the term "adult human female" to define a woman, a phrase which was used by Prime Minister Rishi Sunak earlier in the week.}}

Or in other words, it clearly sources that ''she's'' anti-trans, and that it's her slogan. Is this a perfect source for the claim the ''slogan'' is anti-trans, maybe not, but it's good enough that I don't think that this is an AE issue. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 01:08, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

Upon looking further at what's actually being argued: while I think the assertion that Sweet is trying to push a POV is at minimum very plausible (e.g. it's pretty odd to insist that a slogan by an anti-trans activist whose purpose is to assert that trans women are not women might not be anti-trans), I also think that the correct response to that behavior is to bring a case here and not to be rude directly like MV has been. [[User:LokiTheLiar|Loki]] ([[User talk:LokiTheLiar|talk]]) 17:23, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by starship.paint====

Well, {{u|LokiTheLiar}}, the issue is less of MilesVorkosigan misinterpreting that source. The issue is, MilesVorkosigan telling Sweet6970: {{tq|'''You’ve decided to pretend''' that there is some requirement for a second one despite how obvious it is. And thank you for admitting that there is no plausible alternative explanation, I appreciate it.}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kellie-Jay_Keen-Minshull&diff=prev&oldid=1295119097], after Sweet6970 denies any such admission or pretense, in the next response MilesVorkosigan tells Sweet6970: {{tq|Please '''do not lie about what the sources say''', that just means everyone has to go read the link for themselves and you’re wasting our time}}. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kellie-Jay_Keen-Minshull&diff=prev&oldid=1295145043] Accusations of pretending and lying is assuming bad faith, which is an AE issue. '''[[User:Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">starship.paint</span>]] ([[User talk:Starship.paint|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Starship.paint|cont]])''' 02:28, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

*{{re|Berchanhimez}} - not sure I quite agree because this incident seems relatively simple to understand and take action on, at this point. I think it should end in a warning not to assume bad faith. '''[[User:Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">starship.paint</span>]] ([[User talk:Starship.paint|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Starship.paint|cont]])''' 02:39, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by berchanhimez====
I think this AE request should be paused until the current [[WP:RFAR|ArbCom case request]] is resolved one way or the other. It does no good for people to keep making statements here if they may be subsumed into an ArbCom case. If the RfAR closes without a case, then this can be resumed. And for the record, I'll be making a similar comment on the other cases here shortly. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; [[User:berchanhimez|me]] &#124; [[User talk:berchanhimez|talk to me!]] 02:32, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Starship.paint}} It's going to be considered in the Arbitration case (assuming it's accepted) regardless, so I feel it's decent to let admins here know at least. No sense for AE admins to take action on something that's (likely, imo) going to be considered by ArbCom soon anyway. It's basically a waste of time - since this case is likely to be accepted (in my admittedly hopeful opinion) regardless of this. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; [[User:berchanhimez|me]] &#124; [[User talk:berchanhimez|talk to me!]] 02:41, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Seraphimblade}} That was basically what I was getting at. There is nothing ''immediate'' here other than a warning, and if the reported party ends up being a party to the ArbCom case, they're going to get either a warning or a more severe sanction anyway. I do, however, disagree with you that AE needs to take action in the face of a pending ArbCom case. You all deal with enough as it is, and if ArbCom is potentially going to deal with this topic area soon, you should at least be able to take AE reports related to this topic area off your plate (so to speak) until ArbCom determines whether they will be assuming such reports into the pending case. In other words/TLDR: You're fully right, and I wasn't trying to encourage anyone not take action here - but I just think you have enough to deal with as it is. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; [[User:berchanhimez|me]] &#124; [[User talk:berchanhimez|talk to me!]] 04:17, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Void if removed====
I don't see this as connected to the proposed ArbCom case. This is not a topic regular who's been involved in any of the protracted medical disputes over the last 18 months. Rather, this is a fairly straightforward case of incivility and casting aspersions in a contentious topic, and refusing to moderate or retract that behaviour even [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tamzin&diff=prev&oldid=1295238621 after being asked] by an admin. Editors ought to be able to point out a statement is not adequately supported by a provided source without being subjected to this invective.

I think a reminder of [[WP:AGF]] and [[WP:NPA]] and an instruction to strike the accusation of lying would help ensure this editor displays the necessary decorum to usefully contribute to contentious topics in future. Putting a simple, short report over a straightforward display of unrepentant incivility in GENSEX on hold until a massive (still-hypothetical) ArbCom case comes to a conclusion is unnecessary, and IMO just risks further unproductive incivility. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 19:35, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:MilesVorkosigan|MilesVorkosigan]] the statement was {{tq | Please do not lie '''about what the sources say'''}}. Nothing to do with "two sources". Misrepresenting that here is not a great look, and doing so with obvious snark like {{tq | I should not have assumed their familiarity with policy}} is just a continuation of the problematic incivility. [[User:Void if removed|Void if removed]] ([[User talk:Void if removed|talk]]) 20:07, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Raladic====
1) While the wording chose by MilesVorkosigan was a bit strong, they [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-MilesVorkosigan-20250616195600-Statement_by_MilesVorkosigan_3|apologized above for it]]. 
:As [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-LokiTheLiar-20250616172300-Statement_by_LokiTheLiar_3|Loki]] already elaborated above, reading of the existing source supported the statement per [[WP:SKYBLUE]]. 
:Notable however is that Swee6970 has a history of taking umbrage with minutiae and has regularly used it for [[WP:WIKILAWYERING]] in very similar ways - instead of just opening google to grab sources themself, they instead will go argue against an existing source. While most AGF editors interpreted the words from Miles "{{tq|about what the '''sources''' say}}" say to mean what do sources at-large say - another user - {{u|Helper201}} fixed quietly, by [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kellie-Jay_Keen-Minshull&diff=prev&oldid=1295264003 adding additional RS] that explicitly use the wording, which supports the notion that (again, not excusing the strong wording from Miles) indeed, sweet was incorrect. The fact that Helper201 added the sources should have been the end of the saga. Note that those sources were added before this AE report was even made. 
:Other good examples of Sweet's wikilawyering were [[Talk:Gender-critical_feminism/Archive_8#MOS_guidelines_on_links_and_exploratory_therapy_–_James_Esses_BLP|this discussion]], which they [[User_talk:DanielRigal/2024#MOS_guidelines|tried]] to have with many users until they eventually got the point. Or [[Talk:Gender-critical_feminism/Archive_8#Anti-rights_movements|this one right below]], including when a disruptive [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C4:B3AD:8E01:F4A3:F91C:3779:C87E|user]] popped up (there and in some other article) spewing hateful commentary and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gender-critical_feminism&diff=prev&oldid=1246673777 Sweet defended and argued] that these [[WP:NQP|hateful]] and transphobic comments were somehow okay, when I removed them in line with policy from my experience having spent [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Raladic/4/Administrator%20intervention%20against%20vandalism a lot][https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Raladic/4/Requests%20for%20page%20protection/Increase of time] in [[WP:CVU]] dealing with disruption of the nature, including RD2 disruption with assistance from admins.

2) Sweet indeed has a history of weaponizing the manner/timing in which they post alerts to other editors they are arguing against with using the CTOP notice, in volation of the [[Template:Alert/first]] - {{tq|Alerts are a neutral courtesy; '''never use them to intimidate, coerce, or shame another editor.'''}} policy. 
:They did [[User_talk:Raladic/Archive_1#Introduction_to_contentious_topics|the very same thing to me]] in July last year, after having already been in various discussions with me FOR MONTHS and knowing my history and awareness of the area. The timing of them posting this alert to my page was specifically done as a hostile act trying to intimidate me because I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transgender_rights_in_the_United_Kingdom&diff=prev&oldid=1233991608 reverted] an erroneous removal of them minutes prior.
:Not only that, they doubled down trying to [[WP:BULLY|intimidate me]] by making up stuff as they went and saw I used [[WP:RW]] for the reversion and tried to [[User_talk:Raladic/Archive_1#Unfounded_accusation_of_vandalism|accuse me]] of "attacking them" somehow because I used a maintenance tool to make my life as an editor easier as I explained to them in my reply - they never apologized.

So, I would suggest an informal warning for Miles to chose their words more carefully (despite having been proven right), but request a [[WP:BOOMERANG]] for Sweet6970. In retrospect, why I didn't file a request myself back then, I don't recall, but given that their behavior of nitpickery and weaponization of templates and wrongful accusations to try to intimidate other users clearly has not changed, I think it is entirely warranted. [[User:Raladic|Raladic]] ([[User talk:Raladic|talk]]) 04:17, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:@{{u|Seraphimblade}} - just wanted to make sure you see my statement, which I just made, a day after @{{u|Guerillero}}'s statement to ensure you don't close this preemptively without taking the request into account. [[User:Raladic|Raladic]] ([[User talk:Raladic|talk]]) 04:17, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
::@{{u|Seraphimblade}} - request about 50-100 words plz (so that the reply isn't over) - What I meant was, that Guerrillero's statement was made prior to my report, thus their own suggestion from then may not be the same anymore and they may reconsider themself (not having seen my statement yet) about seeing the similarity of problematic behavioral actions by Sweet then and now. [[User:Raladic|Raladic]] ([[User talk:Raladic|talk]]) 04:33, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
:@admins requesting extra 200 word extension please to correct [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Sweet6970-20250619122700-Request_concerning_MilesVorkosigan|false statement]] by Sweet above: You [[WP:WIKILAWYER]]ered using [[MOS:NOLINKQUOTE]] as a false-pretense of your real motive, which was [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gender-critical_feminism/Archive_8#c-Your_Friendly_Neighborhood_Sociologist-20240909164000-Sweet6970-20240908204100|complete removal of all links to conversion therapy] as was caught by @{{u|Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist|YFNS}} and the links were reinstated (and present today). You didn't care about the quotes, but used them as a pretext to not have the links at all. You know a movement may be on the wrong side of history when the United Nations Office of Human Rights and the Committee on Torture calls their practices out.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Publications/Born_Free_and_Equal_WEB.pdf|title=Born Free and Equal|date=2019|pages=9,38|publisher=[[Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights]]}}</ref>[[User:Raladic|Raladic]] ([[User talk:Raladic|talk]]) 19:38, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning MilesVorkosigan===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
* I think we can close this with a general reminder that civility is important and editors are required to AGF --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 08:43, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*AE is for dealing with immediate issues, while ArbCom cases handle longer-term patterns of behavior. So, I do not agree that any AE issues should have any "pause" due to a proposed ArbCom case; they are separate processes with different focuses. That said, in this instance I would agree with Guerillero's proposal, and hopefully everyone will be mindful of that and further action won't prove necessary. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 04:12, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
*:As a general note, I do read all statements in an AE request prior to commenting, but do not reply individually to them unless I have followup questions for the editor who posted it. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 04:21, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
*:As I noted above, I'm not inclined to grant word extensions for people to argue with one another. If someone made a statement that evidence doesn't support, it will be disregarded anyway. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 20:39, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
*:Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close as above. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 16:20, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}

==RememberOrwell==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning RememberOrwell===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|TarnishedPath}} 11:07, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|RememberOrwell}}<p>{{ds/log|RememberOrwell}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[WP:ARBCOVID-19]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#[[Special:Diff/1296912585|02:46, 23 June 2025 (UTC)]] Adds image taken from Ivermectin misinformation site c19ivm.org to [[COVID-19 misinformation]]. This image has formed part of previous [[WP:AE]] report at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive350#RememberOrwell]]
#[[Special:Diff/1296918659|03:39, 23 June 2025 (UTC)]] I revert it
#[[Special:Diff/1296959364|10:14, 23 June 2025 (UTC)]] Starts discussion arguing for inclusion of misinformation from c19ivm.org
#[[Special:Diff/1296961547|10:35, 23 June 2025 (UTC)]] "What is up with your and TarnishedPath's apparent aggressive attitude and obsession with this article/topic? Seems to be something you have a close connection to. Do you?"
#[[Special:Diff/1296962862|10:47, 23 June 2025 (UTC)]] "You asked a question that had a presumption built into it so that it couldn't be answered without appearing guilty. Do you use logical tricks like that intentionally?"
#[[Special:Diff/1296964035|10:57, 23 June 2025  (UTC)]] "As you refuse to answer and are using logical tricks, I choose to disengage. You have made it clear I am not welcome here."

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : 
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
#[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive350#RememberOrwell]] RememberOrwell warned for personal attacks

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [[Special:Diff/1270586542|18:27, 20 January 2025 (UTC)]] (see the system log linked to above).

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
RememberOrwell has previously been warned for personal attacks in relation to discussions of the topic area nothing has changed. ''[[User:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#ff0000;">Tar</b><b style="color:#ff7070;">nis</b><b style="color:#ffa0a0;">hed</b><b style="color:#420000;">Path</b>]]''<sup>[[User talk:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#bd4004;">talk</b>]]</sup> 11:07, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:It's worth noting that the discussion which occurred at [[Special:PermanentLink/1296905548#Your submission at Articles for creation: Haro v. Kaiser Foundation Hospitals (June 22)]] is covered by [[WP:ARBCOVID-19]] as the page the discussion is about ([[Draft:Haro v. Kaiser Foundation Hospitals]]) is covered by the CTOP. In that discussion RO argues that [[WP:GNG]] is something different than what experienced editors understand it to be and that AFC reviewers are misrepresenting policy. ''[[User:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#ff0000;">Tar</b><b style="color:#ff7070;">nis</b><b style="color:#ffa0a0;">hed</b><b style="color:#420000;">Path</b>]]''<sup>[[User talk:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#bd4004;">talk</b>]]</sup> 09:14, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : 
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
[[Special:Diff/1296965136]]

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning RememberOrwell===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by RememberOrwell====

====Statement by Alpha3031====
I was kinda wondering what kind of fights Orwell has been getting up to since January. [[Special:Diff/1296855603|Claiming an AfC decline is against 5P1]] apparently (the one about [[WP:5P1|being an encyclopedia]]). [[User:Alpha3031|Alpha3031]] ([[User talk:Alpha3031|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alpha3031|c]]) 11:42, 23 June 2025 (UTC)
:I disagree with fiveby's [[#c-Fiveby-20250623143000-fiveby|comment]] which seems to imply {{tq|both}}, or any of the other editors involved have acted inappropriately in any way. [[User:Alpha3031|Alpha3031]] ([[User talk:Alpha3031|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alpha3031|c]]) 16:56, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

====fiveby====
An AE report for [[Talk:COVID-19_misinformation#Images_needed,_but_removed_after_addition.|this]]? Looks like a couple battleground editors trying to bait others into "civility violations". Happens often at LL article, it's boring because most editors are transparent and tedious about it&mdash;at least they could try for a bit of style. For the supposed civility issues TBAN both or tell both to grow up a little.

However, per BC's [[WP:NOTDUMB]] comment the third time trying this with the image should go a long ways toward a TBAN for RO. [[User:Fiveby|fiveby]]([[User talk:Fiveby|zero]]) 14:30, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Bon courage====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
Something's off here. Why a dogged insistence on inserting a screenshot from a site which isn't even discussed in the target article? It is, in contrast, discussed at [[Ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic#Misleading meta-analysis websites]] where RememberOrwell has also tried to insert it. I am sure there is no failure of intent here, but going to DEFCON ONE on editors for disagreeing isn't wise, especially on a [[WP:CTOP]]. Likewise to AfC reviewers.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:RememberOrwell&diff=prev&oldid=1296900692] Some toning-down is needed. [[User:Bon courage|Bon courage]] ([[User talk:Bon courage|talk]]) 08:57, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

{{re|Fiveby}} Expecting "a bit of style" at AE? You want the Moon on a stick, you do ... [[User:Bon courage|Bon courage]] ([[User talk:Bon courage|talk]]) 09:07, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning RememberOrwell===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*A topic ban for RememberOrwell would probably make sense at this point --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 08:15, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
* The previous AE thread was closed without formal action, but with an informal warning, as the underlying dispute was moot. Here again RememberOrwell has made personal attacks and then ended the underlying dispute. That shows that this is [[capable of repetition yet evading review]], so I do think some formal action is merited here. That said, I'm not convinced as to a TBAN versus a formal warning. {{yo|RememberOrwell}} I'd really like to hear from you. Unlike a lot of FRINGE-related disputes we get at AE, this does seem like a situation where both sides are trying to portray misinformation and misinformation, rather than one trying to legitimize it. On the other hand, it's not okay to accuse people of a COI [[WP:ASPERSIONS|without evidence]]. So I'd appreciate your thoughts. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]]</sup> <small>([[User:Tamzin/🤷|they&#124;xe&#124;🤷]])</small> 08:37, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
*As {{u|RememberOrwell}} has had notice of this request and plenty of time to comment at it, I think we should proceed with the presumption that they do not intend to do so (though of course they remain free to do so if desired). [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 19:49, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

==Editking100==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning Editking100===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Azuredivay}} 18:29, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Editking100}}<p>{{ds/log|Editking100}}</p>

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;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->

Account created only 28 days ago, and is being disruptive across Wikipedia.

#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Disney_Star&diff=prev&oldid=1296073629 17 June] - Making false accusations of racism for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Disney_Star&diff=prev&oldid=1291046276 this comment]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IndiGo&diff=prev&oldid=1296776071 23 June] - Removes maintanence tag with misleading edit summary 
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bay_of_Bengal&diff=prev&oldid=1296988498 23 June] - Restored largely unsourced material removed by Cerium4b.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_the_Middle_East&diff=prev&oldid=1296990684 23 June] - Minutes later editor then hounds contributions by Cerium4b and reverts them in multiple places without any rationale [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_the_Middle_East&diff=prev&oldid=1296990912][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_Israel&diff=prev&oldid=1296994607][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_Japan&diff=prev&oldid=1296997555][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Religion_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina&diff=prev&oldid=1297002231][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_the_Middle_East&diff=prev&oldid=1297009075]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shiv_Sena&diff=prev&oldid=1296995263 23 June] - Never edited this article before,[https://sigma.toolforge.org/usersearch.py?name=Editking100&page=Shiv+Sena&server=enwiki&max=] but is edit warring here by falsifying the established consensus found on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shiv_Sena/Archive_2#Merge_proposal talk page].
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shubhanshu_Shukla&diff=prev&oldid=129752210526 June] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Shubhanshu_Shukla&diff=prev&oldid=1297514989 26 June] - Not assuming good faith. Writes: "Clearly the motive to raise this deletion is highly questionable, outright biased and definitely not in a good faith."
# falsifies this [https://m.thewire.in/article/space/know-your-spacemen-is-shubhanshu-shuklas-axiom-4-different-from-rakesh-sharmas-in-1984?mid_related_new Wire source] as "selective addition (especially quoting the Wire source) which says it's not a official gov confirmation but a personal opinion of someone". He also makes a misleading claim that the figure has to be officially from the government then only it can be included.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shubhanshu_Shukla&diff=prev&oldid=1297525246 26 June] - Repeats his problematic claims that he made above.

This editor is thoroughly problematic. Their creation of [[Draft:Piddi Media]] should leave no doubt. [[User:Azuredivay|Azuredivay]] ([[User talk:Azuredivay|talk]]) 18:29, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : 
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
#[http://Difflink1 Date] Explanation 
#[http://Difflink2 Date] Explanation 

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Editking100&diff=prev&oldid=1295763061]


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Editking100|user=Azuredivay}}
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Editking100&diff=prev&oldid=1297669284]
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===Discussion concerning Editking100===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

==== Statement by Editking100 ====

I wish to respond to the allegations with facts and transparency, backed by sources and contributions that clearly reflect my constructive intent.

1) The issue raised against me has already been addressed in great detail here: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1191#Editking100_making_WP:ASPERSIONS_of_racism_and_stonewalling_at_Talk:Disney_Star]]. Even administrator Rosguill noted that such matters should not be escalated to ANI. I gave a prior explanation on the article talk page, and I’ve worked constructively across hundreds of pages. My editing history does not align with WP:NOTHERE behavior as per said by them.

2) There was nothing misleading in the edit here: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IndiGo&diff=prev&oldid=1296776071]]. I removed a maintenance tag citing improved grammar and based on this wikilink. The same page linked before and after this edit is: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_airlines_in_Asia]]. It contains sourced data, and the same is supported by this third-party source: [[https://simpleflying.com/biggest-asian-airlines/]]. I never knew that changing 'Asian airline' to 'airline in Asia' and backing the claim based on a already attached wikilink would land me into huge trouble.

3) Here: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bay_of_Bengal&diff=prev&oldid=1296988498]] — a valid Deccan Herald source was already present. The complete removal by Cerium4b lacked justification, so I reverted it to preserve the referenced version. Currently i got sources to back the same data and are attached as can be seen here [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bay_of_Bengal&action=history]].

4) Cerium4b made several deletion requests and removals from Hinduism-related articles. See their contributions here: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cerium4B]]. Their deletions were denied or reverted by others, as seen in the page histories of [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_Cuba&action=history]], [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_Croatia&action=history]], and [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism_in_Luxembourg&action=history]]. I only restored content that had previously existed; I added nothing new.

5) The discussion here: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shiv_Sena/Archive_2#Merge_proposal]] concluded there was no consensus to merge. My edit was unrelated to merging and concerned the fact that there’s no formal confirmation of party dissolution. See edit: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shiv_Sena&diff=prev&oldid=1296995263]]. I reverted just once to a previously established version, which does not amount to edit warring as also confirmed by Toddy1 below.

6) In this AFD: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Shubhanshu_Shukla]] — over 10 users made similar points before me. I highlighted inconsistency in nominating this page while other astronauts from the same mission (with similar or fewer sources) were not. I also correctly referenced misuse of WP:NEWSORGINDIA clause. The closing admin also confirmed that my points were valid: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Editking100#Assuming_good_faith]].

7,8) I made my reasoning clear here: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shubhanshu_Shukla#Seat]]. The Wire article cited says “India has not disclosed how much it has paid”, while the BBC article it references only says “Officials say”, making it speculative. This supports my objection to including unsourced figures. Other editors agreed here too: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spaceflight#Does_the_alleged_cost_of_seat_in_a_private_spaceflight_merit_inclusion_in_the_astronaut's_article?]]. Here, I suggested an RFC to resolve the disagreement about cost info in the astronaut article, because most similar pages don’t include such speculative claims. This was reverted by a first edit of a IP editor. Another new account: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/ViraAndhini]] and an IP [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/83.179.19.166]] made edits suggesting prior involvement and later re-added arbitration warnings to my talk: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Editking100&diff=prev&oldid=1297728535]]. I also received personal attacks here: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shubhanshu_Shukla&diff=prev&oldid=1297724800]]. 

The one line draft I created was just a placeholder for a popular social search term, planned to be built with relevant sources. I cant understand why it was dragged here.

I have made 1,500+ edits across transport, sports, aviation, incidents. I’ve reported multiple disruptive users who were later blocked, including: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1191#Melalekhan24_adding_a_lot_of_branded_content_in_multiple_wikipedia_pages]], [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1191#User:ইমরান_ভূইয়া_suspicious_mass_edits]]. I’ve also taken the talk page route with many sources before major edits, like: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ahmedabad_Airport#Proposal_to_rename_the_article_name_to_Sardar_Vallabhbhai_Patel_International_Airport]]. I have also recieved multiple thanks by experienced editors regd. my edits in the Air India 171 crash page as can be confirmed from that page.

I sincerely state that I haven’t engaged in disruptive editing, nor violated arbitration restrictions. My edit history and actions have shown commitment to improvement and Wiki policy adherence.

''This is the summarized version of my statement, for the previously attached long version including reply to user Toddy1, see'' [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Editking100#Old/full_version_of_the_statement]]

Thank you!
[[User:Editking100|Editking100]] [[User talk:Editking100|(talk)]]

====Statement by Toddy1====
{{ACWordStatus|page=AE|section=Editking100|user=Toddy1}}

{{ping|Editking100}} You said both here and at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1191#Editking100 making WP:ASPERSIONS of racism and stonewalling at Talk:Disney Star|WP:ANI]] that you have a {{tq|q=y|clean history}}.  What do you mean by that?

You proved that you are capable of spotting and reporting a suspicious editor - see [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1191#User:ইমরান ভূইয়া suspicious mass edits]] - the editor you reported got blocked as a sock.

It is surprising that an account that is about a month old is editing at a rate of 46 edits/day.  Did you have previous experience with Wikipedia?<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 00:41, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
:I think the complaint is an over-reaction to a series of minor and non-existent problems.  For example:
:#Editking100 was wrong to talk about {{tq|q=y|racist statements}} on [[:Talk:Disney Star]];<sup>[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Disney_Star&diff=prev&oldid=1296073629]</sup> it was the wrong page to do this on.  He/she should have done it at [[:WP:ANI]] or [[:WP:AE]].
:#Editking100's edit-summary described his perception of part of his/her edit, but did not mention deleting the maintenance tag.<sup>[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IndiGo&diff=prev&oldid=1296776071]</sup>  He/she probably did not realise that deleting the maintenance tag was important.  A warning on Editking100's talk page explaining this was all that was needed.
:#A reasonable edit by Editking100, with a sensible edit summary.<sup>[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bay_of_Bengal&diff=prev&oldid=1296988498]</sup>  Nobody reverted Editking100's edit.  Nor is there discussion of it on the article talk page.  So why are you complaining about it here?
:#Having spotted what Editking100 perceived to have been a bad edit by an editor, Editking100 looked to see whether the editor had made other questionable edits and reverted them.  Experienced editors and admins do that all the time.
:#You call making one edit<sup>[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shiv_Sena&diff=prev&oldid=1296995263]</sup> an edit war!  I could have understood that, if other editors had been edit warring, and Editking100 had joined it on one side.  But that did not happen.
:<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 11:51, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning Editking100===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
*Editking100, if this is your first time at AE, you should really read the instructions at the top of the page that are in the pink section. AE has word limits and diff limits, both of which you have exceeded. Also, you should note that {{tq|The scope of a discussion is limited to the conduct of two parties: the filer and the user being reported}} which means that you should not use your limited number of words talking about other editors here as no action will be taken against them. This discussion is about your editing and that of the complaint filer. Also, keep your comments to your own section. I have moved some you made to Toddy1 to your own section. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 05:13, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
*{{u|Editking100}}, the word limits are not suggestions, and you have had plenty of time to trim your statement. If you have not done so shortly, it will be truncated at the 500 word mark; I presume you would probably prefer it to look differently than that. If you really feel you need more than that, you may request an extension ''after'' you have trimmed it to 500 words or less. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 20:08, 1 July 2025 (UTC)




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== Zanahary==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning  Zanahary===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Onceinawhile}} 21:58, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks| Zanahary}}<p>{{ds/log| Zanahary}}</p>


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[WP:PIA]]

; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it:
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Weaponization_of_antisemitism&diff=next&oldid=1222808840 01:32, 8 May 2024] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Weaponization_of_antisemitism&diff=prev&oldid=1222808840 01:29, 8 May 2024] About a year ago removes a sentence “When used against Jews, it may take the form of the pejorative claim of "[[self-hating Jew]]"”, together with all four of its sources. Rationale was disputing whether the sources were clear enough.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Weaponization_of_antisemitism&diff=prev&oldid=1297904432 07:13, 29 June 2025] After sources were strengthened, returns to remove an equivalent sentence, again with all its sources, this time with the rationale {{tq|Lead must follow body; no mention of this anywhere but in lead}}
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Weaponization_of_antisemitism&diff=1297910109&oldid=1297908485 08:29, 29 June 2025] After it was added back and a section was then added to the body, removes the section added to the body, removes three sources, and cuts a quote.

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : 

;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zanahary&diff=prev&oldid=1180893681 19 Oct 2023]

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
See the discussion at [[Talk:Weaponization of antisemitism#1RR_and_removal_of sources]]. Zanahary refused to self-revert, and stated {{tq|You’ll have to take this to a noticeboard if you want to settle it as a 1RR violation—I just don’t agree with you that my first edit in contention was a revert.}}

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zanahary&diff=prev&oldid=1297996887]

===Discussion concerning Zanahary===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Zanahary====
This morning I removed a clause from the lead of [[Weaponization of antisemitism]] as being a violation of [[WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY]]. After Oiaw restored it with a new piece of body text, I reverted his change and replaced it with different body text, keeping the lead phrase I’d earlier removed (with fewer citations attached to it—I removed those that didn’t support the prose or even relate directly to the article topic). Oiaw indicated on the article Talk that my initial removal was a reversion. I told him that I don’t agree. New to his argument is the first diff linked from last year, showing me removing similar content once before. The latter diff from 2024 doesn’t appear to be relevant.

I don’t see how the first 2024 diff implies that this morning’s removal was a reversion. My edit did not restore the page to a previous version or undo an edit—it was just the removal of old content. Unless Oiaw is arguing that my edit reverted the page to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Weaponization_of_antisemitism&oldid=1222809434 this state], which it obviously did not. It would be appreciated if he clarified whether that is the argument he is raising with that diff. As I see it, I performed a non-reverting edit (removing the lead clause), then reverted Onceinawhile, then self-reverted (for technical reasons; Oiaw is not talking about this edit) to adapt what Oiaw had written using some of the sources in the previously reverted material. That’s four edits, in order:

1. Removing a lead phrase, not undoing anyone else’s edit nor resulting in the restoration of a previous page version.

2. Reverting the phrase’s restoration along with the addition of new body text by Oiaw.

3. Self-reverting the previous edit, so that I could…

4. Write a bit of prose in the body, allowing the lead phrase to remain (as now reflecting the body).

That’s one reversion.

Just for clarity, the self-revert was so that I could cite some of the sources attached to the removed lead phrase in my new piece of text. It was easier to work from that version of the article than it would have been to copy over the Wikitext from the old version. This is, again, not one of the reverts Oiaw is alleging. Oiaw says that the first two edits above were reversions. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Zanahary|Zanahary]] ([[User talk:Zanahary#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Zanahary|contribs]]) 22:15, 29 June 2025 (UTC)</small>
:Thanks for that context [[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]]—my answer to your question is yes: I took that text to be longstanding and status quo when I edited it (though I hadn't gone in the history to look at how old it was; I just remembered it having been there awhile (probably from a combination of its latest monthlong tenure and its previous life)), and I still believe in this assessment. <span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧁</span>[[User:Zanahary|Zanahary]]<span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧂</span> 14:54, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by Aquillion====
For reference, the text removed in the first 29 June diff above was added a little over a month ago, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1291678091&oldid=1291676998&title=Weaponization_of_antisemitism here]. I can understand the frustration around how any removal is notionally a revert and how easy it can be to brooch the [[WP:1RR]] as a result (I even [[User:Aquillion/What is a revert|wrote an essay about it]]), but I guess I'd ask Zanahary this - do you believe the text you removed is longstanding (and therefore represents the status quo) or not? --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] ([[User talk:Aquillion|talk]]) 14:32, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning Zanahary===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*I do not see a violation of 1RR here, and so would close this with no action. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 20:01, 1 July 2025 (UTC)