View source for User talk:Mike Schwartz

Hi there. Welcome to Wikipedia. Thanks for your contributions to [[Rice University]] and other pages. When you get a chance, drop us a note at [[Wikipedia:New user log]] to introduce yourself.
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You should also feel free to drop me a question on my [[User Talk:Ludraman|talk page]].


Happy editing, [[User:Ludraman|L<small>UDRAMAN</small>]] | [[User talk:Ludraman|T]] 17:06, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks.  I finally saw [/read] this today.
More later... if time permits. [[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] 18:57, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I decided to add a personal subpage sandbox page - at [[User talk:Mike Schwartz/subpage/sandbox]] ;  (is this going to work?) [[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 00:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== useful links == 

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== Guide to referencing ==
''Click on "show" on the right of the orange bar to open contents.''
{| class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: center; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em; font-size: 100%; background: #ffefd5;"
|-
! style="background-color: #f90;" | <big>Using references (citations)</big>
|-
| style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" style="text-align: left;" |
<center><small>Help another user by posting this to them. Put <nowiki>{{subst:refstart}}</nowiki> on their talk page or a relevant article talk page.</small></center>
<center><small>Alternatively, use the link [[WP:REFB]], which goes to a help page.</small></center>

I thought you might find it useful to have some information about  references (refs) on wikipedia. These are important to [[WP:V|validate]] your writing and inform the reader. Any editor can remove unreferenced material; and unsubstantiated articles may end up getting deleted, so when you add something to an article, it's highly advisable to also [[Wikipedia:When to cite|include a reference]] to say where it came from. Referencing may look daunting, but it's easy enough to do. Here's a guide to getting started. If you need any assistance, let me know. -- [[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 14:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

;<big>Good references</big>

A reference must be accurate, i.e. it must prove the statement in the text. To validate "Mike Brown climbed Everest", it's no good linking to a page about Everest, if Mike Brown isn't mentioned, nor to one on Mike Brown, if it doesn't say that he climbed Everest. You have to link to a source that proves his achievement is true. You must use [[WP:Reliable sources|reliable sources]], such as published books, mainstream press, and authorised web sites. Blogs, Myspace, Youtube, fan sites and extreme minority texts are not usually acceptable, nor is [[WP:Original research|original research]] (e.g. your own unpublished, or self-published, essay or research), or another wikipedia article.

;<big>Inserting a reference</big>

The first thing you have to do is to create a "Notes and references" section (unless it already exists). This goes towards the bottom of the page, below the "See also" section and above the "External links" section. Enter this code:

:<nowiki>==Notes and references==</nowiki>
:<nowiki>{{reflist}}</nowiki>

The next step is to put a reference in the text. Here is the code to do that. It goes at the end of the relevant term, phrase, sentence, or paragraph to which the note refers, and ''after'' punctuation such as a full stop, without a space (to prevent separation through line wrap):

:<nowiki><ref> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </ref></nowiki>

Whatever text you put in between these two tags will become visible  in the "Notes and references" section as your reference.

;<big>Test it out</big>

Open the edit box for this page, copy the following text (inserting your own text where indicated), paste it at the bottom of the page  and save the page:

:<nowiki>==Reference test==</nowiki>

:This is the text which you are going to verify with a reference.<nowiki><ref></nowiki>''Reference details go here''<nowiki></ref></nowiki>

:<nowiki>==Notes and references==</nowiki>

:<nowiki>{{reflist}}</nowiki>

(End of text to copy and paste.)

It should appear like this:

:;Reference test

:This is the text which you are going to verify with a reference.<ref>''Reference details go here''</ref>

:;Notes and references

:{{reflist}}

;<big>Information to include</big>

You need to include the information to enable the reader to find your source. For an online newspaper source, it might look like this:

:<nowiki><ref>Plunkett, John.  [http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1601858,00.html "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying"], ''[[The Guardian]]'',  2005-10-27. Retrieved on 2005-10-27.</ref></nowiki>

When uploaded, it appears as:
:Plunkett, John. [http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1601858,00.html "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying"], ''[[The Guardian]]'',  2005-10-27. Retrieved on 2005-10-27.

Note the single square brackets around the URL and the article title. The format is:
:<nowiki>[http://URL "Title of article"]</nowiki>
Make sure there is a space between the URL and the Title. This code results in the URL being hidden and the title showing as a link.  Use double apostrophes for the article title (it is quoted text), and two single quote marks either side of the name of the paper (to generate italics). Double square brackets round the name of the paper create an internal link (a wikilink) to the relevant wikipedia article. Apostrophes must go outside the brackets.

The date after ''The Guardian'' is the date of the newspaper, and the date after "Retrieved on" is the date you accessed the site&nbsp;– useful for searching the [http://www.archive.org web archive] in case the link goes dead.

;<big>References not online</big>

You can use sources which are not online, but which you have found in a library or elsewhere—in which case leave out the information which is not relevant. The newspaper example above would be formatted like this:
:<nowiki><ref>Plunkett, John. "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying", ''[[The Guardian]]'', 2005-10-27.</ref></nowiki>

When uploaded, it appears as:
:Plunkett, John. "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying", ''[[The Guardian]]'', 2005-10-27.

Here is an example for a book:

:<nowiki><ref>Charmley, John (2006). ''The Princess and the Politicians'', p.60. Penguin Books Ltd., London. ISBN 0140289712.</ref></nowiki>

When uploaded, it appears as:
::Charmley, John (2006). ''The Princess and the Politicians''. Penguin Books Ltd., London. {{ISBN|0140289712}}.

Make sure you put two single quote marks round the title (to generate italics), rather than one double quote mark.

;<big>Date format</big>

These formats are all acceptable for dates:
:2005-01-27
:27 January 2007
:January 27, 2007

;<big>Citation templates</big>

You may prefer to use a citation template to compile details of the source. The template goes between the ref tags and you fill out the fields you wish to. Basic templates can be found here: [[Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles/Citation quick reference]]

;<big>Same ref used twice or more</big>

The first time a reference appears in the article, you can give it a simple name in the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> code:

:<nowiki><ref name="smith">Details of ref here</ref></nowiki>

The second time you use the same reference in the article, you need only to create a short cut instead of typing it all out again:

:<nowiki><ref name="smith"/></nowiki>

You can then use the short cut as many times as you want. Don't forget the /, or it will blank the rest of the article! Some symbols don't work in the ref name, but you'll find out if you use them. The quotes around the name are optional unless there is a space in the name.

You can see multiple use of the same refs in action in the article [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Bowyer_%28artist%29&oldid=179436485 William Bowyer (artist).] There are three sources and they are each referenced three times. Each statement in the article has a footnote to show what its source is.

;<big>Alternative system</big>
The above method is simple and combines references and notes into one section.  A refinement is to put the full details of the references in their own section headed "References", while the notes which apply to them appear in a separate section headed "Notes". The notes can be inserted in the main article text in an abbreviated form as seen in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Harriet_Arbuthnot&oldid=165667213 Harriet Arbuthnot] or in a full form as in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brown_Dog_affair&oldid=179000868 Brown Dog affair.]

;<big>Further information</big>

More information can be found at:
*[[Wikipedia:Citing sources]]
*[[Wikipedia:Citing sources/example style]]
*[[Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles/Citation quick reference]]
*[[Wikipedia:Citation templates]]
*[[Wikipedia:Footnotes]]
|} --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 14:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== deleted old section [from 00:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)] ==
[archived it first - "sorta"]

== [[Haim Yosef Zadok]] ==

Hi. Thanks for spotting that syntax error. Also, if you see an obvious thing like that in the future, feel free to [[WP:BOLD|be bold]] and fix it yourself. Worse comes to worst, it can always be reverted per [[WP:BRD]]. Cheers. -- [[User:Nudve|Nudve]] ([[User talk:Nudve|talk]]) 03:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
:: umm, OK.  I guess if I change "grant granting" to "begin granting", then someone can still tweak it (fix it) (repair it) later, "if" appropriate.  ["such as", to change it to just "grant"] Thank you.  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 21:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

== thanks ==

thanks for pointing the error. i actually deleted that reference, and put in a new one...  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Veryhuman|Veryhuman]] ([[User talk:Veryhuman|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Veryhuman|contribs]]) 21:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== re: oops ==

i imagine the change was made by 'veryhuman' b/c he has both the before and after part. No idea what went on there. At any rate, I put the citation back. [[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 21:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

== idea for an edit, but first: any comments? ==

Note for someone (CALR?)
(should it be copied / moved to the User talk page [[User_talk:CALR]]?
-- or perhaps to the  [[Talk:Mathematics]] "discussion" page?)
(Actually, replying / answering here would seem OK to me...)
This sentence: 
 Finally, information theory is concerned with the amount of data that can be 
 stored on a given medium, and hence concepts such as compression and entropy.
appears to have been introduced here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mathematics&diff=65060026&oldid=65058680
My suggestion is: to change 
 and hence concepts such as
to [something like]
 and hence deals with concepts such as 
Sorry if I have made a mistake here by failing to "Be Bold" and just go and do the edit first 
("and ask questions later").  Today I was inclined to err on the side of being cautious (and also 
maybe apologetic - - "just in case"). [[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 18:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

== [archive of] "road not taken" diatribe ==

I was going to put this on the [[Talk:Wayne_Dolcefino|Talk]] page for [[Wayne_Dolcefino]], but it seemed so long, and the possible comments so unlikely to be surprising, that I just decided to "Be Bold" and make the edit.  However, having put some time in to writing this, I didn't want to get rid of it completely.  So, for your reading enjoyment, here it is: 

== ambiguity (also, missing period) ==

In the article, [[Wayne_Dolcefino]], this sentence: "A $5.5 million verdict for libel (Sylvester Turner v. KTRK Television; 1996) was subsequently overturned by a court of appeals and upheld by the Texas Supreme Court" appears.  For one thing, it has a missing period at the end;  but while we are fixing that, I would also suggest that we resolve the ambiguity.  What does 
 "[...] and upheld by the Texas Supreme Court" 
mean?  By the default rules that are simply grammatical rules, the subject of the sentence ("$5.5 million verdict for libel") would also be the default, at least, for the antecedent of the ("implied") [zero-words-long] pronoun that is the suject for the verb "upheld" (as well as for the verb "was overturned", earlier, which is the main verb of that sentence).  So (if you got through all that and are still awake here), that would imply that it means 
 "[...] and it [the $5.5 million verdict for libel] was upheld by the Texas Supreme Court." 
But I mean, come on, I don't think that is what was intended.  I am not a lawyer, but that doesn't seem to fit in very well with the context (the paragraph it occurs in).  It is preceded by a sentence saying "Dolcefino and his employer have been the target of various lawsuits.".  That would normally require some word such as "however", if the writer were ''intentionally'' going on to discuss a case where "Dolcefino and his employer" had ended up [when all the smoke cleared] actually losing a given case.

So it is pretty likely that the intent of
 "[...] and upheld by the Texas Supreme Court" 
was to tell us that the '''overturning''' -- that is, the action by the appeals court -- was later "upheld" by the Texas Supreme Court.  But in that case, say that!  Say what it "should" say.  For example, say 
 "[...] whose decision was upheld by the Texas Supreme Court." 
Make it unambiguous -- even though the "context" analysis (see above) is already possible, and (with some logic) could serve to indicate to us what it [probably] "should" say.  IMHO this is a good general principle of the careful use of language - write what you mean, clearly, so that no Wayne Dolcefino-style investigative sleuthing is needed to determine what was meant.  Before I fix this, does anyone have any comments?  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 21:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== IP Vandal ==
{{Resolved|1=(Hence, deleting "talkback")}}
<nowiki>Note: deleted  {{talkback|Arakunem}}</nowiki>
: OK - thank you.  (do I reply here, or on your talk page?)  I guess, the vandalism that I found, was "before" [the other vandalism that led to] the warning.  (I didn't check the exact sequence...) <br/>'''PS:''' While I was waiting for your reply, I found some other vandalism and reverted it; (there was a very easy one-click "un-do" link).  HOWEVER, I did not know how to add a warning [yet another] (one of many!) to the talk page of the (IP address) user who had done some damage (see [[User_talk:63.194.36.11]]).  Please feel free to do so, if/as appropriate. <br/> Thanks, --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 21:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::  > Thanks for the info. [...]
::  (reply dated "21:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)")
::  (time-reversal paradox, probably due to diff. time zones...)
:::  '''OK, thank you.'''
:::  I guess I should now delete that <nowiki>"{{talkback|Arakunem}}"</nowiki>, above -- (right?) 
:::  (or will it "self destruct"?) --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 22:14, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

== Infobox Former Country ==

Hi Mike,

I left Wikipedia a few months ago and only saw your message after an email led me back to the site. So before I go again, some quick answers to your questions:

* year_start / year_end - these variables must be separate from the date and must be entered without wikilinking. As it says in the instructions, these variables are responsible for the placement of the article into a range of categories (e.g. "1806 disestablishments"). Entering these years in any other way breaks the code.

* viewing old versions of the template in action - when you view an old version of a page, it uses the current versions of any templates involved. To view the page with the older version of the template, you must save an earlier version of the template somewhere else and then modify the old version of the article so that it refers to the modified template. A messy job.

Good luck.  [[User:52 Pickup|52 Pickup]] ([[User talk:52 Pickup|talk]]) 20:12, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

:  OK!, thank you.  very helpful information.  nice of you to reply.
:  (and I was patient, so NO PROBLEM, about the delay).  
:  PS:  does << "I left Wikipedia a few months ago" >> mean that 
:  you used to be some kind of official staffer at [[Wikipedia]]?
:  just wondering...  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 23:24, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

== Practical Kabbalah ==

Hi, I only just found your discussion about this on Malcolm Schosa's talk page. I don't believe there's any need to pay special attention to the book, since it will be obvious to any reader that the article is not about a book. Hopefully the author of "Practical Kabbalah" has made it sufficiently clear that his book is not about magic, because he's using a phrase with a pre-established meaning as his book title, and if that's not the meaning he intends, he should really have done his homework a little better. But I don't believe it's a problem either way, since readers of either the article or the book will very quickly realise what the differences are. And when it comes down to it, we don't even know if the book is notable, so I don't think we need to make any reference to it at all.

And no, I don't think you're a spammer. Cheers! [[User:Fuzzypeg|Fuzzypeg]][[User talk:Fuzzypeg|★]] 04:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

: OK, well then what should I do now?  Did you see the "added" section "[[User_talk:Malcolm_Schosha#Can_the_phrase_.22Practical_Kabbalah.22_actually_be_used_in_different_ways.3F]]"?  

::Update 18:42, 12 January 2009 (UTC):  I think the above has been archived, and hence is now at [[User_talk:Malcolm_Schosha/Archive_2#Can_the_phrase_.22Practical_Kabbalah.22_actually_be_used_in_different_ways.3F]] thanks... --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 18:42, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

:And if so, did you read the "Q and A" that it points to?  ( it is under "Visitor Comments: 2" at the external web page http://www.kabbalaonline.org/Safedteachings/otherkab/Keys_to_True_Prophecy.asp ).  Now I think that, regardless if that book may have limited notability, still that "Q and A" suggests that there is more than one way of using that phrase.  I am not an expert on this subject matter -- nor on language.  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 05:06, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

::What you could consider doing, if it interests you, is to write an article about Rabbi Laibl Wolf. In that context all of his books could be mentioned and discussed. He seems to be quite notable, and I think that such an article would meet Wikipedia guidelines. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. What you added appeared to me as an attempt to promote a book. 

::If you write the article, try to build it as much as possible on secondary sources, i.e. published assessments written by others, and not on primary sources from Reb Wolf. [[User:Malcolm Schosha|Malcolm Schosha]] ([[User talk:Malcolm Schosha|talk]]) 12:40, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== [[Rice University]] ==

I just made some major changes to the Rice University article to remove extraneous fluff about traditions and add more important content about academics, research, and organization. Please check in and review it! [[User:Madcoverboy|Madcoverboy]] ([[User talk:Madcoverboy|talk]]) 23:32, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

: THANK YOU.  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 02:33, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

== handy links == 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style
<br/>((http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ExpandTemplates&input=%22%7B%7Btc%7D%7D%22))

[[Template:Infobox_Writer]]
<br/>[[Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page]]
<br/>[[Help:Edit_summary]]
<br/>[http://www.safeti.net/2008/ Joe Buck's "2008" page] 
<br/>[[Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests]]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ/Categorization

section updated: --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 22:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

==Austin Bay==
Thanks. As I mention on the talk page updating the incoming links is a bit of an obsession. If you move a page then you should at least be willing to fix the thing as well. On a couple of occasions when someone has done a page move that left behind 20+ double redirects or links to a disambiguation I moved the page back and told them to clean it. Seems to annoy people when you tell them to clean things up. Cheers. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 10:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

==re: suggestion for tool enhancement==
<div style="margin-left:1em; border-left:3px solid gray; padding-left:0.5em; color:#666;">I noticed at http://pathos.ca/tools/etymologyreader/index.php?example=1 that it does not expand the character string "equiv." to "equivalent".  Most readers probably do understand the meaning of both of those strings, so perhaps it would not be a '''"big"''' improvement.  So I am just suggesting that you <u><em>consider</em></u> that feature -- and you decide whether to actually "<u><em>add</em></u>" that feature. -- [[User:Mike_Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User_talk:Mike_Schwartz|talk]]) 06:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)</div>

: Thanks for the suggestion; it should substitute it now. —<small>[[User talk:Pathoschild/s|Pathoschild]] 19:49:24, 01 February 2009 (UTC)</small>

:: THANK YOU! --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 21:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

== re: [the AfD] [[Israel Sports Radio]] == 

{{tb|WP:REFUND|Israel Sports Radio}}
[[User:JohnCD|JohnCD]] ([[User talk:JohnCD|talk]]) 12:08, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

::Now that it has been archived, the "revised" link is (more like): [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion/Archive_17#Israel_Sports_Radio]] 
:: --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 18:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

== Uziel ==

I did fine work 3 1/2 years ago, did I not? The guideline WP:DAB used to specifically exclude lists of surnames and given names. but now it has been somewhat simplified, and no longer spells out how to handle these. But I think the comment still holds true. I moved the entry for Uziel Gal to the "See also" section. I don't see any value in asking a question in comments on this kind of article page, and signing an edit to an article page is never done. If there were two or more notable people with that given name, you could create a page for "Uziel (given name)", but for now this has all the bases covered. Happy editing! [[User:Chris the speller|<font color="#C30">'''Chris'''</font>&nbsp;<font color="#060">'''the&nbsp;speller'''</font>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Chris the speller|<font color="#900"><sup>yack</sup></font>]] 23:25, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

== Re: [[User talk:Mxn/2011#living-or-DEAD-tude of link, may depend upon user privileges|living-or-DEAD-tude of link, may depend upon user privileges]] ==

Hey Mike, that message about permissions is a bit misleading: it has nothing to do with user privileges, at least not at Wikipedia. Rather, the ''Stanford Daily'' website has completely redesigned a few times since that link was added to the article, so the link broke and their website isn't very clear about what happened. I've updated the link&nbsp;&ndash; err, [{{fullurle:SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory|diff=440614715&oldid=440614432}} revived] it. Thanks for your contribution to the article! &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Mxn|Minh Nguyễn]] <small>([[User talk:Mxn|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Mxn|contribs]])</small> 07:40, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

:Oh OK, thanks!  I figured that it was not anything to do with a given user's level of [[Wikipedia]] user privileges -- I just thought that maybe readers of the ''Stanford Daily'' might have some access that "non" subscribers (like me!) do not have.  It sounds like it is more of a case of, that the [[new]] URL points to the same data that the [[old]] URL [[used to]] point to -- which is probably a well-known [[running joke]] in the world of [[dead link]]s.  Thanks for updating the URL in footnote number '''[1]''' (and removing the [[dead link]] tag).  I guess that, "also" having footnote number '''[2]''' there, now, will not hurt. :-) --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 22:38, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

:Fixed. The "future" part sounds likely: website redesigns seem like a yearly ritual at the ''Daily''. <code>:^)</code> &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Mxn|Minh Nguyễn]] <small>([[User talk:Mxn|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Mxn|contribs]])</small> 07:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Cool, WebCite sounds like a good idea. Wikipedia uses UTC time for most things, so the dates are correct. Actually, I don't think the accessdate and archivedate are a big deal in this case, because the text of the original article isn't likely to change (just the surroundings). Thanks for your diligence! &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Mxn|Minh Nguyễn]] <small>([[User talk:Mxn|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Mxn|contribs]])</small> 21:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

::'''Case closed!'''  ...for anyone who might be reading this without knowing the "history" of it, (and perhaps getting confused) (and perhaps wanting to understand more), ... it might help to click through to [[User talk:Mxn/2012#erstwhile dead link (revived once, by Mxn) now dead again -- (I think)]] -- and maybe "also", to some of the links "from" there, to yet other places.  (If this is "TMI", then just say "no" to doing all that clicking!) {{resolved}} --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 01:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for March 8==

Hi. When you recently edited [[List of revision control software]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[CMS]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_revision_control_software|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_revision_control_software|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 11:08, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

: Hello! Did you even read what I wrote?  It was on a discussion page.  I said (in part) that maybe that disambiguation page [[CMS]] '''** should **''' have an entry (!) for the DEC VAX/VMS product "CMS", which (apparently) now runs under "OpenVMS".  

: By the way, since the comment I am replying to, seems to be from a robot who has no e-mail address (does it even have a "Talk:" page?), I do not know where to send this reply!  So I am just posting it on my OWN "Talk:" page, as an indented (using colons) "REPLY".  

: I am not expecting the robot to be made so smart that it could "read what I wrote" (see above) and realize that I *did* know that I was creating a link to a disambiguation page.  I guess maybe I should post this (or a link to this) at the "Talk:" page, [[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) (right?)  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 17:08, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
::Regarding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_revision_control_software&diff=480761945&oldid=471555714 your edit], article space is not the place for [[WP:SELFREF|references]] to disambiguation pages or [[WP:CITE|unsourced]] comments. I realize that you included a link, but your use of the word "apparently" ("now apparently OpenVMS instead") is inappropriate, since a statement about a change of name should cite a reliable source. It is policy to [[Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Avoid_embedded_links|avoid embedded links]], and also unless there is a Wikipedia article for ''DIGITAL Code Management System'', it shouldn't be in the list. Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Stand-alone_lists#Common_selection_criteria|selection criteria for list articles]] as well as, especially, the [[WP:COMMENT|comment]] in the wikicode of the article which explicitly states <small>"PLEASE DO NOT ADD PRODUCTS WHICH DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES TO THIS LIST"</small>. If the product is verifiably notable, feel free to create an article for it (with citations of course; even just a [[WP:stub|stub]] to get started) and link to that. Thanks. —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small> 18:03, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

::: OK.  My mistake.  [1], I did not see that "[[WP:COMMENT|comment]] in the wikicode of the article which explicitly states <small>"PLEASE DO NOT ADD PRODUCTS WHICH DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES TO THIS LIST"</small>.  Also, [2] I am not sure whether [[DEC]] [[CMS]] is "notable" enough to have its own article -- (if it is, then it might be "primarily" an article of [[History]] more than of [[business]] or of [[computer science]].)  At this point I do not have time to start a new article (even a stub) -- '''especially''' when it might well be appropriate to become the topic of an AFD or even "speedy" deletion [episode]. So (bottom line) you (meaning, anyone) are welcome to "un-do" my edit, if appropriate.  I am not sure I understand why a certain list "has" to be limited to only things which "WHICH [...] HAVE THEIR OWN WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES"... but that conversation, or consensus building, or voting, or whatever, might have already happened, somehow, when I was not involved.  Whatever... --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 18:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
::::No worries. I already undid your edit which is why I commented in the first place to explain. That hidden comment was at the top of the page and should have been more conspicuous, and probably should point editors to the talk page for clarification (like the hidden comments on [[FL Studio]]). Also to clarify, there is no reason that I know of why a list can't include items which are not notable enough for their own article, but my opinion is that this article is primarily for notable products. That certainly could change were an editor such as yourself willing to take the time to formulate other criteria for inclusion and find appropriate sources, however I'm not sure that would be entirely useful in this case. Anyway, just wanted to leave a friendly note here so it didn't seem like I was stepping on your toes in addition to the bot already annoying you. There is also the possibility of a list specifically of items not notable enough for their own entry (I have not seen one of these as far as I know, yet the policy I mentioned references this). This part is a good explanation:
::::{{quote|''Short, complete lists of every item that is verifiably a member of the group''. These should only be created if a complete list is reasonably short (less than 32K) and could be useful (e.g., for navigation) or interesting to readers. The inclusion of items must be supported by reliable sources. For example, if reliable sources indicate that a complete list would include the names of ten notable businesses and two non-notable businesses, then you are not required to omit the two non-notable businesses. However, if a complete list would include hundreds of entries, then you should use the notability standard to provide focus to the list.|[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists#Common selection criteria]]}}
::::Happy editing! If I can be of any more help just let me know. —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small> 18:51, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

::::: '''Thank you.'''  I think keeping things [[wikt:cordial|cordial]] is a good idea (even when optional) (and even when unnecessary to reassure the "owner" of a given "Talk:" page that there is no [[Intention (criminal law)|intent]] to [[insult]] anyone;  because, in principle, there could be other readers of that page, too -- besides the "owner" of the ["Talk:"] page);  and even if some misunderstanding is unlikely, it is probably good to "leave a friendly note" [somewhere] just in case. 

::::: As far as visibility (during editing) of such [hidden] [[WP:COMMENT|comment]]s in the wikicode of an article, I have an idea.  I do not know where to post it, but maybe you could forward it (or, forward a link to this "Talk:" page ''section'') which <s>will</s> contains my idea, (see the '''sub-'''section below) and this "Talk:" page ''section'' [[already]] answers the question about why there might be a '''need''' for my idea. 

=== "Idea" for a technical feature === 

::::: First, some background:  When I clicked on a link which you provided (above) that said: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_revision_control_software&diff=480761945&oldid=471555714 your edit] it took me to the DIFF page for my edit.  OK, I can see what the changes were.  '''However,''' apparently this is a situation in which every editor who is making (or even ''considering'' making) a change to a certain article, '''should''' be made aware of a certain request, -- that request up at the top;   the one that is contained in that "ALL CAPS" hidden comment.  (("<small>PLEASE DO NOT ADD PRODUCTS WHICH DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES TO THIS LIST</small>")).  My idea is a '''suggestion''' for a technical feature, which might help to achieve that "goal" -- (that is, the "goal" of making every editor [...] aware of a certain request). 

::::: So, here is my idea.  Maybe we could invent some kind of wiki mark-up code, that would be ignored by all readers -- (human and robot) -- except for the DIFF engine.  Then this mark-up code (or special "comment", or whatever) could be added to, or applied to, stuff like that "ALL CAPS" request up at the top of the article [[List_of_revision_control_software]], that says: "<small>PLEASE DO NOT ADD PRODUCTS WHICH DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES TO THIS LIST</small>".  Actually, the idea of using a [[WP:COMMENT|comment]] in the wikicode, is already an example of putting in something that is to be read only by certain readers (human editors, in this case) and ignored by others (it gets ignored by [most] robots) '''(right?).'''  So my suggestion is, some kind of [[WP:COMMENT|comment]] -- (OR, maybe a "<tag>" or something) -- that would be ignored by ALL readers except for the DIFF engine. The intent would be, to display (show) the desired "request" text -- such as, "<small>PLEASE DO NOT ADD [...] TO THIS LIST</small>" as being present in both the OLD and NEW versions of the article being DIFF'ed.  This would then (probably) alert many (or most) editors while they are doing their editing -- and before they decide whether to click '''"[Save page]"''' or '''"[Cancel]"'''.  

::::: Now, of course, there is no [[wikt:guarantee|guarantee]] that the editor will ever do a diff, either "during" editing (as I always do) -- (often, many times during ONE edit) -- or "after" editing (as I usually do) (typically once, after completing an edit).  However, I think the chances are better that the request would be seen, if it were shown on the screen (as a section of wiki-text that was NOT changed) every time someone looked at a DIFF of a given page.   

::::: Now, what kind of "technical feature" would [implementing] this idea be?  Would it be a code change to the MediaWiki software?  I am not sure;  but I am confident that, those in charge (such as, apparently, the person who '''wrote''' that "ALL CAPS" request up at the top of the wiki-text of an article) (and, of course, the people who keep the technical infrastructure working -- which "might" include some of the "robot author / maintainer / explainer / documentor" people!) (sound familiar? anyone?) can figure that out.  I am confident that, if the idea is a good idea, (and the "tech" people might even have some ways to make it better), then the code to implement it, can be figured out somehow. 

::::: By the way (this little tweak is sorta [mostly] "non-technical":) in implementing this "idea", it might be appropriate to impose a '''140-character limit,''' or something like that.  We probably do not want someone doing a one-line edit to be shown a "tome" of reading material every time he/she looks at the DIFF.  ("stuff that stayed the same" [during this edit] "reading material", that is.)  But, 140 characters is enough space to easily '''mention''' a certain section on the "Talk:" page (in case the reader, of DIFFor, might not already know about that section on the "Talk:" page), or -- more likely -- to '''mention''' [the existence of] a certain "ALL CAPS" request up at the top of the wiki-text of the article.  But usually, that (mentioning the existence of something) would not even be needed.  It would  be needed only when the relevant "ALL CAPS" request was '''more than''' 140 characters -- and my guess is, that most of the time, the "ALL CAPS" request would actually fit just fine within 140 characters. 

::::: '''Just a suggestion.'''  Thanks for your patience (especially if you've read all the way down to this part!) --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 20:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

::::::What you're suggesting sounds very much like an [[WP:Edit notice|edit notice]].  For an example, go to [[List of Puerto Ricans]] and click "edit". [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 02:24, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

::::::: Yes, I agree.  The page that I edited, ([[List of revision control software]]) has an "ALL CAPS" '''comment''' -- [that I failed to notice!] --that says (something like) <nowiki><!-- 

PLEASE DO NOT ADD PRODUCTS WHICH DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES TO THIS LIST --></nowiki> ...and apparently the "intention" there, was something that could have been accomplished [[better]] by using an [[WP:Edit notice|edit notice]].  By the way, your choice of an [[example]] (of an [[WP:Edit notice|edit notice]]) was a good example. 

::::::: It appears that, the editor who put in the "ALL CAPS" '''comment''', failed to notice that an [[WP:Edit notice|edit notice]] would have been a better way to alert editors like me, to the existence of a certain rule or custom that was supposed to be observed there.  

::::::: Plenty of ignorance to go around.  I was ignorant of the rule or custom that was supposed to be observed there, and the editor who put in the "ALL CAPS" '''comment''', was ignorant of the existence of (such a thing as) an [[WP:Edit notice|edit notice]], -- or maybe ignorant of the fact that an [[WP:Edit notice|edit notice]] would have worked better to do what was intended there. 

::::::: Thanks for telling me about this.  

::::::: By the way, is there any custom for what the limit is, on the number of colons?  We are up to seven [colons]... --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 08:05, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

::::::::There is not custom for limits when indenting with colons, just add {{tl|outdent}} or {{tl|undent}} when you think it is getting hard to read or edit.  
::::::::Sometimes you just have to make your edit notice a little more noticeable just for [[WP:LINKSPAM|people who have difficulty seeing it]].  See [[List of food companies]] for a bolder example that, at last, appears to have made the inclusion criteria for that list very obvious to all editors. [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] ([[User talk:Astronaut|talk]]) 13:13, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::See [[WP:Indentation]] for a little more info on talk page indentation; however, as Astronaut said and as far as I know, there isn't a "rule" for the amount of indentation before using using {{tl|outdent}}. It depends a lot on your screen resolution how a long talk page discussion shows up and how readable it is. As far as your idea for a comment to show up on every diff, along the same lines as your thinking you could simply add all caps comments in problem areas (i.e. areas which are commonly spammed/vandalized) so that any diff involving changes to those areas will show the hidden comment (since diffs show a certain amount of context before and after a changed area). Looking at the source for [[List of food companies]] is a good example, although even those multiple huge comments don't always show up (like in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_food_companies&diff=475931933&oldid=469926541 this diff]). I think we should have a standard edit notice template, like the (admittedly unperfect) edit intros we have for [[WP:BLP|biographies of living persons]] ({{tl|BLP editintro}}). Click edit at the top of [[Adam Lazzara]] for an example. Unfortunately, well meaning editors such as you and I are unable to create edit notices for articles ourselves; only [[WP:administrators|administrators]] and [[WP:account creators|account creators]] have that technical ability. See [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive228#Request_for_Edit_Notice|my request]] at the [[WP:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] for an example of a request for admin creation of an edit notice. If you'd like, you can create an edit notice for your own talk page by creating [[User talk:Mike Schwartz/Editnotice]] (feel free to look at [[User_talk:Danhash/Editnotice|my user talk editnotice]] for an example, or just click edit or "new section" on my talk page). Of note is the fact that edit ''intros'', like what {{tl|BLP editintro}} is used for, are not shown when editing a section, only when editing the whole page, whereas edit ''notices'' always show when editing a page (more info [[Wikipedia:Editnotice#Edit_intros|here]]). —[[User:Danhash|danhash]] <small>([[User talk:Danhash|talk]])</small> 13:41, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
{{undent}} Mike, I think you're right that many contributors are ignorant about edit notices – though they've only been around since late 2008, and perhaps haven't fully permeated wiki-culture yet.  They're very useful, as it's much better if we can make editors, especially new editors, aware of page-specific conventions before they make they edit, as getting reverted can be highly discouraging to new editors, and Wikipedia needs to do what it can to boost editor retention. [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 13:57, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

: Yep! (also -- thanks ([[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]) for going back to the left margin.)  

: Also, thanks to [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] and [[User:Danhash|danhash]] for your inputs, or feedback, or whatever it is called. 

: By the way, IMHO the topic of the [http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/5607/5607_pro.pdf DIGITAL Code Management System] -- an old DEC (now part of [[HP]]) product called [[CMS]] might well be notable enough for its own [[Wikipedia]] article.  I mean, even some "technology" oriented products (e.g. the [[Concorde]]) are still notable enough to have a [[Wikipedia]] article, even if/when they become part of the annals of history;  so even if [[Digital Equipment Corporation|DEC]] [[CMS]] '''is''' [[history]], it might well (still) be notable.  <anecdote>(Even cross-word puzzles usually use the past tense, -- or something like that -- when giving a clue for a 3-letter word starting with "SS" and ending with "T".)</anecdote>

: The old the [http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/5607/5607_pro.pdf DIGITAL Code Management System] ran under the [[VAX/VMS]] [[Operating system|OS]]; -- and it probably still does, if anyone is still using [[VAX/VMS]] rather than upgrading to its successor, which is called [[OpenVMS]]. (By the way: I think that was not exactly a "name change"; -- more like, [[OpenVMS]] "inherited" '''some,''' but not '''all,''' DNA from its "ancestor" [[VAX/VMS]]). 

: ...in any event, even if [[Digital Equipment Corporation|DEC]] [[CMS]] is notable enough for its own article, I am not up to starting it now (even as a stub) (but if you want to, then by all means, [feel free to] "'''go''' for it" -- an external link is provided above).  ...and since it has to have its own  article, in order to be in that list ([[List of revision control software]]), I guess it is not eligible for that list, "at this time". 

: so, "case closed" as far as that list is concerned.  ("at this time".)  But there might well be oceans of '''room for improvement,''' in getting the use of [[WP:Edit notice|edit notice]]s to be better understood and (hence) more widespread, and in general making it more automatic, (and efficient, and with a minimum of "[[cognitive dissonance]]") that an editor will either 

: * already know, or 
: * will be "told" (notified) automatically, 

: when there is something that he/she needs to know. May it come to pass, speedily, in our day.  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 19:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for March 15==

Hi. When you recently edited [[Peter Henrici (mathematician)]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Lynn]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Peter_Henrici_%28mathematician%29|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Peter_Henrici_%28mathematician%29|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

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=== Reply from Mike S. === 

: See above.  IMHO the person [[M. Stuart Lynn]] is notable enough (see the link that says he was the editor in chief of [[CACM]] back in the early 1970s) to have his own wikipedia article; but I am too lazy to start it, as a new article.  I would be happy to contribute to it, once someone else starts it.  I realize that this "REPLY" is in response to a bot-generated message, . . . but once I write this, it will be on a page that -- in principle -- "might" also be read by human persons, in the future.  Howdy, all you earthlings!  ("if any"!) --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 17:43, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for March 16==

Hi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links pointing to [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation pages]]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

:[[Judea Pearl]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Judea_Pearl|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Judea_Pearl|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[ACM]]

:[[Peter Henrici (mathematician)]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Peter_Henrici_%28mathematician%29|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Peter_Henrici_%28mathematician%29|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Lynn]]

{{resolved}} --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 20:47, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

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==Disambiguation link notification for August 22==

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:: {{resolved|("case closed")}} ...Thanks for notifying me, about that! --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 17:33, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

== P vs NP ==

For the past decade, about once a month some obscure scientist from some obscure university has claimed to have settled P vs NP&mdash;none of them has managed to get their proofs published in an academic journal (see e.g., http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP.htm or http://blog.computationalcomplexity.org/2009/01/so-you-think-you-settled-p-verus-np.html). Please do not include mentions of such claimed proofs to the article as it is neither interesting information nor encouraged per [[WP:FRINGE]]. —''[[User:Ruud Koot|Ruud]]'' 23:06, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

:OK, thank you for that information.  I guess I thought that, since there was a post on the internet from [[Moshe Vardi]] which had a link to http://kafcsn.org.ua/lang/en-us/anatoly-d-plotnikov-professor-department-computer-systems-and-networks-east-ukrainian-national-university-solved-the-problem-p-vs-np.html , that everything was kosher (on the level) ("not BOGUS").  That "kafcsn.org.ua" web page does have a link to http://thescipub.com/abstract/10.3844/jcssp.2012.1036.1040 ... and I just accepted that this periodical ("Journal of Computer Science") (does it really exist?) was a valid academic journal.  I just looked at http://thescipub.com/jcs.toc and, even there (not just on the "kafcsn.org.ua" web page), I did notice that the quality of the translation (to English from some other language) seemed to be inferior.  Eventually I reminded myself that -- fairly recently! -- July 2012 -- [[Moshe Vardi]] wrote an "Editor's Letter" in [[Communications of the ACM]], entitled "Predatory Scholarly Publishing". (see http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2012/7/151235-predatory-scholarly-publishing/ ). Actually, the fulltext or PDF versions of that might require an ACM account [password]; but all you need to know is that this "Editor's Letter" about "Predatory Scholarly Publishing", has a link to http://scholarlyoa.com/ -- and as far as I know, http://scholarlyoa.com/ does not require ANY account [password] -- and it is sufficient to give a hint as to what serious issues the "Editor's Letter" about "Predatory Scholarly Publishing" was addressing.  (right?)

:It was '''not until I read your entry here''' (the paragraph by [[User:Ruud Koot|Ruud]] at the top of this section, -- explaining what has been happening about once a month for the past decade), that it occurred to me that perhaps [[Moshe Vardi]] himself had posted the link for some kind of '''humorous''' reasons -- perhaps like an "April Fool's" joke.  I had even commented on-line about the poor quality of the translations, and anyone can read [the original post, '''and'''] my comments, at https://www.facebook.com/moshe.vardi.1/posts/369945646419552 -- (although a facebook account [password] is probably required, for that.)  It is also possible that the explanation is something else -- something I still have not thought of, yet.  Thank you for your patience.  Please humor me, if appropriate.  I really thought that some real news had happened recently. Maybe not!  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 08:31, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

== In the sandbox??? ==

Why are you putting Simson Garfinkel's page in your sandbox? [[Special:Contributions/69.143.180.9|69.143.180.9]] ([[User talk:69.143.180.9|talk]]) 05:02, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

:First of all, the "simple" (short) answer to your question, is given very clearly by the "edit" comments [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mike_Schwartz/subpage/sandbox3&diff=prev&oldid=527624201 here];  but here (below) I will try to provide an explanation that indicates more clearly why I did what I did -- including why I failed to [know to] '''[[blank]]''' my '''sandbox''' page, after I had completed my little "experiment".

:("1") I had edited Simson Garfinkel's page, -- that is, the article page [[Simson Garfinkel]]; and ("2") '''after that,''' I noticed that footnote number [6] was messed up in some way (in some way that I did not -- and still do not -- understand completely/well); and ("3") I sorta "suspected" that a double underscore ((in the "name" field of a "ref" tag -- probably the "ref" tag for that exact footnote -- footnote number [6])) -- which I had just added -- was causing the problem with footnote number [6], and [I "suspected"] that I could fix the problem by just changing that double underscore to a single underscore; and ("4") I thought it ''might'' require multiple (several) "experimental" edits in order to confirm or refute that suspicion, and that I might have to [break down and] modify or extend my "idea" to fix the problem;  so ("5") rather than muddy the waters of the history of the actual "article space" page [[Simson Garfinkel]], (by using it as a staging area for doing one or more "experimental" edits) I thought that it would be better to confirm (or at least "investigate") my tentative "theory" by doing all of the "experimental" edits -- (however many it might take) -- in a '''sandbox''' page, ''rather than'' in  the actual "article space" page [[Simson Garfinkel]].  ("6") It then turned out that n=1 -- that is, it turned out that the ''' number''' of "experimental" edits that had to be done, was only one;  but '''I didn't know that''' until '''[[after]]''' the decision whether to use a '''sandbox''' page for the "experimental" edits, had already been made and acted upon.  Also, ("7") It was not until now (while composing this answer to your question) that I "found out" (by looking at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mike_Schwartz/subpage/sandbox3&action=history the history page, for my little sandbox page]) that there were some '''rules''' that were getting violated (e.g. see [[WP:USERNOCAT]]) (aka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:USERNOCAT#Categorizing_user_pages ) by the fact that the big copy of the whole entire article -- (including a bunch of "categories", which I had not touched, and which I may not '''understand''' very well) -- was "remaining" in my '''sandbox''' page.  Now, of course -- (had I known!) -- I could have ''easily'' '''avoided''' running afoul of those rules, by just doing (making sure to do) a '''"delete"''' afterwards -- that is, by just [[blanking]] my '''sandbox''' page, after I had completed my "experiment".  ("8") I think I have now stopped violating those rules that I did not know about and that I did not understand very well (e.g. see [[WP:USERNOCAT]]).  I did not '''completely''' blank my little sandbox page, ((ahem, there does seem to be some robot or other "editor" who gets upset when someone blanks that sandbox page) (maybe ''only'' when it is done by someone '''OTHER THAN''' the owner of that sandbox page?)) but I did get rid of just about everything, except an infobox -- (which "I hope" will be pretty harmless) -- and a short explanation, which refers any readers to THIS talk page, ''if'' they want "TMI" -- (if they want more details).  

:I hope this answers your question.  The reason the above stuff starts out with "First of all", is that my original plan was going to be, to ALSO have a "Second of all", asking [something like], '''"Who cares''' what is on [in] '''MY''' sandbox page'''?"'''  However, now [see item ("7") above], I know some stuff that I did not know before, which sorta answers that question.  (So "Never Mind!" [that question]).  :-)  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 06:37, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

::Your sandbox page now shows up when someone does a search for Simson Garfinkel. That's confusing to users (it was confusing to me). It would be best if you eliminate the content now that your experiment is over.[[Special:Contributions/69.143.180.9|69.143.180.9]] ([[User talk:69.143.180.9|talk]]) 16:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

:::OK, now I think it has been remedied.  '''Thank you''' for that suggestion re what "would be best".  I had already erased all of '''the "category" stuff,''' -- which is what I '''thought''' was running afoul of some "RULES" that I was (previously) unfamiliar with.  I had (unfortunately) left in the '''"infobox"''' -- but now I have gotten rid of that, too. 

::: Now, all that is remaining in that "sandbox page" is a little '''explanation,''' saying [quote:] <blockquote>This sandbox page was used for an experiment, that has now been concluded.  For more details (e.g., of why, and why I did not blank the page [myself] sooner), see my talk page.  Thank you!  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz|talk]]) 06:09, 20 December 2012 (UTC)</blockquote>.  I hope that will be harmless.  

:::THANK YOU! --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 05:43, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

== I am not sure whom (if anyone) to "notify" ... about a certain situation  ==

{{help me-helped}} 
(Is there someone who should be notified about this?) 
Please see : [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Encyclopaedia_Britannica#1911encyclopedia.org_says_.22This_site_is_no_longer_available..22]] 
Thanks! --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 11:22, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

:You have already notified the relevant WikiProject. If you know of templates that link to http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/, those should be fixed, so leaving a note on their talk pages would be nice. However, [[Template:Cite EB1911]] links to another copy of the 1911 EB, so that doesn't seem to be much of an issue. [[User:Huon|Huon]] ([[User talk:Huon|talk]]) 11:36, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

== Warning -- (it's a new one -- at least, to me)  ==

Recently I tried to save a certain edit (in article space), and I got a WARNING like the one shown here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Abusefilter-warning-archiveis#Edit_request_on_15_November_2013.E2.80.8E [1] 

That was (iirc) the first time I had ever seen that warning.  (I was trying to add "or http://www.archive.today/Y00Gd{{dead link <!-- consider change the domain --> }}" to (the "see also" part of) the "Note" in footnote [3] of [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hiloni&oldid=610243943 this version] of the article about [[Hiloni]]).  

I guess there is some more information available at a place [2] (an RFC?) that is pointed to by a link from inside the WARNING shown at [1].  That is, the place [2] is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Archive.is_RFC . 

Now, most of this stuff is NEW to me.  I haven't read the RFC (yet), and I've only read part of the info at [1].  

Any comments?  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 19:57, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for July 28==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Trinoo]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[CERT]]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 08:55, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

: THANKS for the [[wikt:heads-up#Noun|heads up]]!  I made two edits today ... one to fix this, but '''first,''' I made an edit to fix a [[red link]] that was caused by a '''[perhaps] well-intentioned,''' but '''misguided''' edit, done "as of 23:04, 22 January 2014".  And ('''as mentioned''' in an edit comment), that '''misguided''' edit can be seen [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trinoo&diff=591985028 HERE].  That fix was higher priority (and it was a tiny change -- only a SINGLE transposition of 2 letters), so I did it first.  

: There were also some '''other''' intervening edits, between my edit yesterday (which introduced a new footnote, which contained a [[hyperlink]] that failed to bypass a [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation]] page), and  my last edit today (which fixed the new footnote, to now bypass the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation]] page);  '''however''', all intervening edits -- in fact, ALL edits in the last '''year''' that were not not mine, were either edits by robots, or edits [mostly from IP addresses] that were inserting -- (or fixing!) -- vandalism or other "'''misguided'''" OOPS'es. 

: {{resolved|'''"Case closed."'''}} 

: --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 18:57, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

== Clint Bolick Typo ==

Hey Mike - thanks for the heads-up on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clint_Bolick&diff=622188764&oldid=619458419 this typo].  I'm hoping to get some time to add some references to the Clint Bolick article, and to update the Institute for Justice page with recent developments there. Have a good one - James   [[User:James Cage|James Cage]] ([[User talk:James Cage|talk]]) 12:26, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for December 16==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Delphinium viridescens]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Larkspur]]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 10:19, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

::THANKS for the notification!  
::> Such links are almost always unintended, [...] 
::'''Right!'''   But, (at first, I thought that), '''''this''''' was one of the rare '''exceptions!''' 

:::Nope!  This is one of the typical cases -- where it is better to [[bypass]] the [[disambiguation]] page!  
:::'''PS: ''' Consider it '''DONE!''' {{resolved|"Case Closed"}}  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 23:23, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

== Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Computing ==

Hey. Can I know the reason behind [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Computing&diff=642517097&oldid=640916835 this edit]? Because the result is ... well, not great at all. But if there is a problem you are trying to solve, I am open to a compromise or a better solution or ... just accepting it when there is a very good reason.

Of course, you were editing a MOS; revert is 90% of times the outcome. [[User:FleetCommand|Fleet Command]] ([[User talk:FleetCommand|talk]]) 08:51, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

:{{replyto|FleetCommand}} I am not arguing against the "revert" ("[...90% of times the outcome]")'''.'''  I just thought that the "custom" of using <code style="font-size:2ex;">fixed-width fonts</code>, to cite or "quote" an example of a command-line entry, would be appropriate there.  Apparently, I was wrong. ...and apparently, '''what''' <sup>[there is to know, that]</sup> '''I don't know,''' <sup>[e.g., about that "90%" rule]</sup> '''about "MOS pages",''' would fill a book<sup>[or an MOS page...]</sup>... :-) <code style="font-size:2ex;">Thanks.</code>  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 17:31, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

== big "[[Help:Contents/Directory|Wikipedia help pages]]" nav box seems to be missing a certain helpful entry  ==

Sorry if this is a silly question. 
I have been editing [[wikipedia]] for years. 

I noticed a link to [[Help:Getting started]] (it was displayed as "[[Help:Getting started|Getting started]]) on someone else's "Talk:" page (see [[User_talk:Joseph_Nahan_Hirsch#Welcome!]] -- I think that is where it was ['from']). 

But then, I tried clicking on the [ever present] link labeled "[[Help:Contents|Help]]" over on the left-hand side "Nav" column.  It took me to [[Help:Contents]] -- which has (it includes) a template or "navigation box" there, (with the title "[[Help:Contents/Directory|Wikipedia help pages]]" at the top) (and that [title] is also a [[hyperlink]], pointing to "[[Help:Contents/Directory]]"); and that (nav) box is preceded by a helpful "explanation" that says:<blockquote>The blue bar that follows is a navigation box linking many help pages. Click "show" on the right to expand it.</blockquote> 

At that point, I noticed something puzzling.  That '''[huge!]''' "navigation box" ("[[Help:Contents/Directory|Wikipedia help pages]]") did not seem to contain any '''entry''' for the nice (helpful) page "[[Help:Getting started]]"!  

Is it me, or is that a '''mistake?''' The page "[[Help:Getting started]]" seems to have a name (or address) that '''starts with''' the word '''"Help:" ["!"]''' ... which does make sense (right?).  

Did someone conclude that the link to the [[Help:Getting started]] page should be omitted (''intentionally?'') from the "navigation box" there, for '''Wikipedia help pages'''? 

Actually, never mind whether it was omitted '''"intentionally"''' or not!  Wouldn't it be a good idea to include it? [[YMMV]], but, as for me, having been a user of [[Wikipedia]] for over 11 years, and an editor for almost that long, I still would not consider it "beneath" me to use a "[[Help:Contents/Directory|Wikipedia help pages]]" nav box that contained a ["beginner"?] link to the "[[Help:Getting started]]" page. 

Any comments?  Thanks... --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 20:08, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

:You're right, [[Help:Getting started]] does look like a good resource. The page is actually already linked to in the big help navigation box you mentioned ([[Template:Help navigation]]). It isn't mentioned specifically as "Getting started", but if you look at one of the rows of links, one is titled "Introductions & tutorials", and if you click on that title, you land on [[Help:Getting started]]. I realize that this may be slightly counterintuitive and I would be open to support a change to the box to make it easier to land on the getting started page. Regards, [[User:Mz7|Mz7]] ([[User talk:Mz7|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

:: '''Thanks! ''' I must have hovered my mouse pointer over [[many]] (if not [[most]]) of the entries in that section of the "[[Template:Help_navigation]]" nav box, looking for something which (maybe sorta paradoxically) might '''point to ''' [[Help:Getting started]] even though it appeared to '''display as ''' ''something else''. However, I guess I failed to think of, the idea of hovering my mouse pointer over '''the section title itself '''-- (which displays as ''[[Help:Getting started|Introductions & tutorials]] ''). D'Oh! I probably should have! I just did so now ... ''after'' reading your kind reply.  

::Now I put together a little '''[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMike_Schwartz%2Fsubpage%2Fsandbox4&type=revision&diff=677731389&oldid=677731194 idea],''' intended to illustrate my "suggestion" for a way that the template page ([[Template:Help navigation]]) could be updated.  Please (feel free to) provide your comments, "if any", about that "suggestion".  --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 05:25, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

::PS: @[[User:Mz7|Mz7]] ([[User talk:Mz7|talk]]), please [feel free to] read the above. --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 17:51, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

:::Thanks, but wouldn't it be redundant to have two links to the same page? If we're planning on moving the link to the body of the row, we should change the link in the title of the row to something else. [[User:Mz7|Mz7]] ([[User talk:Mz7|talk]]) 18:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

::::Would having two paths to the same destination, be [sorta] "wasteful"? Maybe! I am not an expert on nav boxes. But my experience (I think it was related here, or somewhere, in a little travelog) seems to show that, if there were a link that DID actually display as [in part] "getting started", then it would make it easier to find -- for at least some searchers. Before I started hovering my mouse pointer, checking the little "preview" URLs for each link, (shown by my browser down at the bottom of the page) ... the FIRST thing I did, was to use the "Ctrl-F" ["Find"] feature of my browser, to search for one of those words ("getting" and "started"). I probably tried '''both''' of them -- one at a time. No luck. But it would have worked, '''*if*''' there had been a link [somewhere, in that nav box] that DID actually display "getting started". Even an extraneous ["redundant"] link would have made a difference.  ...and IMHO, the number of links already in that nav box, is already so large, that I "for one" would not object if there were more. [[YMMV]]... 

::::To sum up, I am OK with whatever is decided. I know what would have been [more] helpful to [[me]], but I am not sure how "typical" my own outlook and mind-set is. (Maybe not very!) So... I hope that some consensus can be reached, and that something (if appropriate) gets done. Thanks! --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 20:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

::::'''[[UPDATE]] [...snip...''' ("deleted" comments -- visible in a previous version) ...''']'''

::::--[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 16:54, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

:::::Aha! How about [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mike_Schwartz/subpage/sandbox5&diff=prev&oldid=692067767 this] idea, for a way to modify the template? [[IMHO]], this '''new''' "idea" does address the "concern" (which some might share more than I do...) about being careful to avoid having two links that both point to the same web page. However, this new "idea" also addresses my "concern", (which is, about being more helpful in a certain kind of situation, to a person who is looking for a certain thing [e.g., a certain "help" page], in a case where the page does exist, but the searcher just does not know how to find it). 

:::::I removed (deleted) some of my old comments from earlier today. They [are visible in a non-latest version of this "User_talk:" page, but they] probably are ''not needed'' now -- since [I think] this new "idea" gets away from the ["zero sum game"] idea (or "mind set"),  where [one tends to ''assume'' that] achieving one goal would necessarily "have to" be at the expense of achieving some other goal. 

:::::I hope this seems OK. (Any comments? e.g., '[[User:Mz7|Mz7]] ([[User talk:Mz7|talk]])'?) --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 17:43, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
::::::I like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mike_Schwartz/subpage/sandbox5&diff=prev&oldid=692067767 this] idea, but why don't we just rename the row to just "Getting started"? It's more concise, and users can already tell there are introductions and tutorials in the row by simply looking over its contents. [[User:Mz7|Mz7]] ([[User talk:Mz7|talk]]) 22:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

:::::::OK [[User:Mz7|Mz7]], that sounds fine to me. I realized, after reading your message of 22:57 (UTC), that I had been (perhaps sub consciously) "worrying" about violating some rule, about upending the previous "status quo" wherein the words "(Introductions & tutorials)" were used for a certain "clickable" link on the left-hand-side "NAV" bar. 
::::::::(Originally, they were used there '''*without*''' the words "Getting started" -- which is what caused me to waste what seemed like a ton of time [it was probably <sup>[more like]</sup> at least 17 minutes] "searching" for something that I had seen before, and that [I knew] was '''called''' <sup>something like</sup> "Getting started", and that DID exist (!), ... but that was just hard for me to find). 

:::::::Actually, if anyone ''[ever]'' does '''object''' to the idea of "getting rid of" the words '''(Introductions & tutorials)''' there, and using the words '''"Getting started"''' instead ... then, at that time, (call it "time T1"), the option will still be available, of just going back and using [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mike_Schwartz/subpage/sandbox5&diff=prev&oldid=692067767 this] idea, after all -- which means, using BOTH the words "Getting started" AND the words "(Introductions & tutorials)" there, in the displayed [[hyperlink]]. 

:::::::But until then (until "time T1"), it is fine with me, to go with [something like] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMike_Schwartz%2Fsubpage%2Fsandbox5&type=revision&diff=692139742&oldid=692065993 this] idea; -- which is like the previous one, but without ["worrying" about] keeping the words '''(Introductions & tutorials)''' there, in the (displayed) [[hyperlink]]. 

:::::::That sounds like a plan. --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 02:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
::::::::{{done}}. I've implemented the change as proposed. {{smiley}} See [[Template:Wikipedia help pages]]. It may take some time for it to update across all help pages—you can [[Help:Purge|purge the page]] to force it to update. [[User:Mz7|Mz7]] ([[User talk:Mz7|talk]]) 03:21, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::Thank You. 
:::::::::{{resolved|"Case Closed"}} 
::::::::: --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 03:48, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
*After seeing the change....thus following the edit summary link to here...I have decided to also add the link at [[Help:Contents]] ([[Edit an article]]) -- [[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 01:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

:::Excellent! Thanks for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3AContents&type=revision&diff=692300273&oldid=691838263 this] edit! --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 01:37, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

== [[WP:ACE2015|ArbCom elections are now open!]] ==

{{Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 12:51, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
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== Square brackets ==

Hi there! I just wanted to let you know that suggested edits should be placed on the talk page of an article, instead of using square brackets. In your edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Multimedia_Messaging_Service&diff=next&oldid=595396256] to the [[MMS]] article, you put the words "acts as a relay, and" in square brackets, presumably to suggest that this would be a better way to phrase the sentence. Be bold, my man! Just insert your suggestions, and if they don't work, someone will let you know or correct it. Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia, and I hope you'll stick around and keep editing! [[User:AirCombat|<span style="color:green"> <big>'''A'''</big>ir</span> <span style="color:red"> <big>♠</big></span> <span style="color:green"> <big>'''C'''</big>ombat</span>]] <small>[[User_talk:AirCombat|<sub>What's</sub><sup>up, dog?</sup>]]</small> 22:13, 15 January 2016 (UTC) 

:[[Thank you]] for your comments. I may not understand them 100%, but if so, then the process of "clearing up" the misunderstanding -- "if any" -- can start now. ("Let the fun begin.") 

:For one thing, I was trying to [[retain]] the word "relay" (see the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Multimedia_Messaging_Service&diff=next&oldid=595396256 diff] of my edit), because I thought that the person (author or editor) who "originally" inserted that word [the word "relay"], may have known something that I did not know, about how that word would (perhaps) be helpful to the reader, in understanding the sentence. My point was [partly] that, while the MMSC might well be '''"acting"''' ''as'' a relay, in a certain situation, that just using the word "relay" by itself there was a bad idea, because [it seemed to me, that] ("[[IMHO]]") if the article [sentence] did not explicitly mention the fact ('''is''' it a fact?) that the MMSC was '''"acting"''' as a relay, then the reader might well '''fail to [[know]]''' that the word "relay" there, meant the [[MMSC]]. Actually, there ''could'' have been something wrong with my take on things, in a ''technical'' sense'''!'''; but I don't think (from the wording of your comments, "so far") that your point [whatever it was] was a concern about that. '''(right?)''' 

:Thank you for your patience with me, if (say) '''your point''' about [the use of] "Square brackets" was lost on me. It might well be, that the meaning of what you were saying, ''should'' have been [[obvious]], to any normal human... ("other than" me). It seemed to me (at the time, and it still does) that, the information ''inside'' the "square brackets", is '''just as visible''' to the human reader, -- (including, to the [hypothetical] reader of an [[ink on paper]] copy of the [[Wikipedia]] article involved!) -- as the ["ordinary"] information, in that [[Wikipedia]] article, that is OUTside of the "square brackets"! '''(right?)''' 

:So, no hurry; but you are welcome to [feel free to] clarify what you had in mind.  '''For example,''' you might want to make a small mock-up (probably not more than a sentence, or a small number of sentences) somewhere, to illustrate what you were (/slash you "are") suggesting could be done [by me, or by someone] '''instead of''' what was ''already'' done, by me, on 13 March 2014 (see the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Multimedia_Messaging_Service&diff=next&oldid=595396256 diff] of my edit that day). [[IMHO]] that might go a long way toward explaining, what you had in mind. 

:The small mock-up -- "if any!" -- could be placed, e.g., in a "sandbox" subpage of this "Talk:" page ... or maybe even right here, in the "== Square brackets ==" '''section''' of this "Talk:" page. 

:On the other hand, maybe my explanation (see above) about the use of square brackets in order to achieve certain goals [involving reader understanding] has enlightened you in some way. If so, and if you no longer think 100% the same way as, the way you were thinking circa "22:13, 15 January 2016 (UTC)" (see the comment above with that date/time stamp!) ... then ... in that case ... maybe "NRN"! ("No reply needed"). '''Whatever!''' --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 23:36, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
==Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!==
[[File:TWA guide left bottom.png |left|link=]]
:::::'''Hi Mike Schwartz!'''  We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission.  I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
::::::* [[WP:TWA/Portal|The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page]]
::::::* [[WP:TWA/Lounge|The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge]]
::::::* [[WP:Teahouse|The Teahouse new editor help space]]
::::::* [[WP:Help|Wikipedia Help pages]]
-- 23:39, Sunday, March 27, 2016 ([[UTC]])
{{Wikipedia:TWA/Navigation2}}

== [[WP:ACE2016|ArbCom Elections 2016]]: Voting now open! ==

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== Big hidden note comments in articles ==

Could you please not do [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Antioch,_Tennessee&diff=802246612&oldid=802246556 this]? Post it to the relevant talk pages if you think its needs addressed. Leaving big commentary style hidden notes doesn't help future editors who edit the article. Use the article's talk page. I think this is the second time I've asked you not to do it. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 23:51, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

:{{Reply to|Ferret}} I apologize. In this case, I think the relevant "Talk:" page is the one for the robot "[[Wikipedia:REFILL|reFill]]". 

:I already made an entry (one of the recent edits) [[User_talk:Zhaofeng_Li/reFill#Replacing_.22.2520.22_codes_.28each_meaning_a_.22blank.22.29_by_PLUS_.28.22.2B.22.29_signs|there]]. --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 01:16, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

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== Notes about a section that got moved when it got archived  ==

There is a section that is "now" probably at a URL that is unlikely to change any more ... since it has already been archived; ... but it '''"IS"''' at a different place, from where it originally started out. 

It is now at: 

[[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)/Archive_24#Using_the_"What_Links_Here"_tool_(of_MediaWiki)_..._on_a_"section_name"_basis,_vs._on_an_"article_name"_basis]]    [1] 

... and if (for any reason) ''that'' [[hyperlink]] does not work, then, [[this]] link to one of its '''sub-'''sections, should work OK: 

[[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)/Archive_24#What_my_question_is]]    [2] 

Note that [wikitext "partial"] URL labeled "[2]", does not contain as many "double quote" marks within the section name (or, sub-section name); (maybe ZERO! of them...) so maybe it will be less likely to encounter some "violation of a rule" that I am not very familiar with. 

<big>PS:</big> This might be a little bit off-topic, but the recent posting at [[User_talk:Wbm1058#A_new_question_(maybe_it_should_have_been_asked_"somewhere_else"?)]] (the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWbm1058&type=revision&diff=876212029&oldid=875810422 DIFF] listing for that, ("pointed to" [from ''near'' here] by the nearby [[hyperlink]] ... the one '''right before''' the words "listing for that") might also have some useful info, about where some of the above things (like "[1]" and "[2]") '''''[[used to]]''''' reside, [[before]] they got archived. 

Just "FYI"... --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 22:29, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

== Emanu-El ==

Hi Mike Schwartz,
I have added a blue link to Temple Emanu-El (Houston) and removed the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> bit that you had added (they're not used on disambiguation pages). It is fine to have a red link or even an unlinked entry as long as there is a blue-linked article that includes the term in question (as per [[MOS:DAB]]). [[User:Leschnei|Leschnei]] ([[User talk:Leschnei|talk]]) 22:10, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

:{{Reply to|Leschnei}} Thanks, but I was hoping to increase the chances of readers being encouraged to visit [[Talk:Emanu-El|the "Talk:" page]] ... partly because it contains a [[hyperlink]] to [the URL] http://www.emanuelhouston.org/ ... which (due to Wikipedia policy, I think) is not allowed on the disambiguation [“dab”] page itself. 

:I looked at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Emanu-El&type=revision&diff=887796697&oldid=886834489 that edit], -- of "15:06, 14 March 2019" -- and ... 
:* For one thing, that statement about << "added a blue link to Temple Emanu-El (Houston)" >> does not sound correct to me. The blue link that was added appears to be a link to [the article about] (the city) "[[Houston]]". I don't think there is an article (on the English Wikipedia) about "[[Temple Emanu-El (Houston)]]", <--(Look! is that link there  [[a red link|red]]? or not?) and if I had found such an article (on the English Wikipedia), then I probably would have linked to it myself -- either on "24 July 2012" or on March 8, 2019; 
:* For another thing, you may have forgotten (or ignored) (or never read) what it says in the portion dated "24 July 2012" of the "[[Talk:Emanu-El#Temple Emanu-El (Houston, Texas)]]" section of that "Talk:" page. One of my goals in adding that section to that "Talk:" page, was to make the URL http://www.emanuelhouston.org/ available to readers, ... at least, to readers who did not mind visiting that "Talk:" page. I was (and I am still) under the impression that including that URL (as I did) is allowed on a "Talk:" page, but is '''not''' allowed -- ('''not even''' inside a <code><nowiki>"<ref>"</nowiki></code> tag!) -- on a disambiguation [“dab”] page. 
:* Among the reasons to make sure that the URL http://www.emanuelhouston.org/ is available to readers ... is the fact that, [[one]] of those readers might want to start (to [[create]]) an article about "[[Temple Emanu-El (Houston)]]".
:* I do not understand the part about [quote]:<blockquote>It is fine to have a red link [...]</blockquote>
:* I also do not understand the part about [quote]:<blockquote>as long as there is a blue-linked article that includes the term in question [...]</blockquote>Does that perhaps relate (in some way) to ... the fact that the article about [[Houston]] does mention "Emanu-El"? (under "[[Houston#Religion|Religion]]") -- ? -- 
:'''Rock on ...''' --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 08:59, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Mike Schwartz,
# You remember correctly - since disambiguation pages are only intended to help readers distinguish between existing articles, no outside links. And you are also correct that it is fine to put it on the Talk page.
# "added a blue link to Temple Emanu-El" - I added the link to [[Houston]] because it mentions Temple Emanu-El as one of the biggest Jewish temples in town. Every entry needs a blue link and this was the most relevant one I could find. For 'red links allowed', see [[MOS:DABRED]] and the next section on 'Items appearing within other articles'.
# As to directing potential editors to the external link, I don't think that it is necessary. The first thing that any editor would do is Google 'Temple Emanu-El houston' and the first hit is the website for the temple. You could put a comment after the entry, like <code><nowiki><!-- See talk page --></nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki><!-- http://www.emanuelhouston.org/ --></nowiki></code>, but there's no guarantee that someone else won't remove it. [[User:Leschnei|Leschnei]] ([[User talk:Leschnei|talk]]) 12:00, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

:{{Reply to|Leschnei}} 
:OK, thanks for explaining. 

:Actually, I did read some more of the documentation about rules and guidellines and policies, etc. -- e.g. at "[[MOS:DAB]]" -- ''after'' I had already typed my reply of "08:59, 15 March 2019 (UTC)". 

:[QUOTE:] << "there's no guarantee that someone else won't remove it." >> '''Right!''' That is pretty much [[the story of]], the episode -- (described in the [[Talk:Emanu-El#Update -- as of March 8, 2019]] "Talk:" page "sub-section" ... as having occurred in ''several'' '''"one at a time"''' steps) -- leading up to the point where someone eventually [[removed]] the entry that I added (in the "[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Emanu-El&oldid=503912902 Revision as of 01:30, 24 July 2012]") ... ''even though'' there was already an explanation, existing -- (in the beginning part of the "[[Talk:Emanu-El#Temple Emanu-El (Houston, Texas)]]" "Talk:" page ''section'') -- that was '''intended''' to try to explain why the entry for << "*  Temple Emanu-El (Houston, Texas)" >> was added, and why [I thought] that it should be kept and not deleted. 

:...and I was pretty sure then (and I still think so, now) that at every step along the way, of those ''several'' '''"one at a time"''' steps, leading up to the deletion of that entry that was added (in the "[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Emanu-El&oldid=503912902 Revision as of 01:30, 24 July 2012]") ... everyone had good intentions, and was just trying to help. 

:Enjoy ... ! --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 18:08, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

== ArbCom 2019 election voter message ==

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== James White ==

I fixed "Alice" in James White film. Thanks. [[User:Eschoryii|Eschoryii]] ([[User talk:Eschoryii|talk]]) 04:10, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

:'''Thanks!''' I ''figured'' that it might be ...something like that. 
: {{resolved|"case closed"}} 
: --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 00:40, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

== Your thread has been archived ==

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Hi '''Mike Schwartz'''! The thread you created at the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse]], {{tq|Is there a correct way to direct attention to this comment /slash "question" ... ?}}, has been [[WP:ARCHIVE|archived]] because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1063#Is_there_a_correct_way_to_direct_attention_to_this_comment_/slash_"question"_..._?|here]]. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to {{Edit |1=Wikipedia:Teahouse |2=create a new thread |section=new |preload=Wikipedia:Teahouse/Preload |preloadtitle=Follow-up to [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1063#Is_there_a_correct_way_to_direct_attention_to_this_comment_/slash_"question"_..._?|Is there a correct way to direct attention to this comment /slash "question" ... ?]]}}.


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=== Thanks for notifying me about that === 

:<big><big>Thanks</big></big> for notifying me about that. 

:My gratitude is for 
:* (a) the fact that I had a way to '''find out''' at all, 
:as well as for 
:*(b) the fact that, as a result of this notification, I now have possession of (or at least, "access" to) the NEW URL, -- which is 

:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1063#Is_there_a_correct_way_to_direct_attention_to_this_comment_/slash_%22question%22_..._? 

:-- as well as to the OLD URL, ... the URL of where that "section" '''used to''' be located, ... before it got archived. 

:As mentioned in my EDIT COMMENT, in my opinion there is some room for improvement in the way [[Wikipedia]]'s current way of doing things (including, notably, the way it currently re-names the URL's of stuff that is getting archived) ... may actually [act to] "contribute" to the problem ... of a web page -- or a "section" of a web page, or something like that -- '''now''' having "URL#2" as its URL, even though it originally (and perhaps just yesterday!) had "URL#1" as its URL. This (of course) matters partly because of the fact that ... one or more [[hyperlink]]s using -- or '''"based on"''' "URL#1" may have carved themselves into the stone of [[History]], ... with or without some convenient algorithms (and I do mean, '''"convenient"''' in the sense of "convenient for a LAZY [and/or ''ignorant''] person", to use -- ! --) for figuring out what the '''new''' URL is ("URL#2") ... while [or "based upon"] already knowing what the '''old''' URL is ("URL#1"). 

:This could be regarded as ironic or something, ... partly because [[Wikipedia]] often deals relatively ''successfully'' with '''external''' "DEAD" links [that is, "DEAD" links on ''other'' web sites] ... in cases where '''external''' links may tend to, "over time", ''turn into'') [[dead link]]s. The examples I have in mind, of [[Wikipedia]] dealing ''successfully'' with some situations like that, include e.g. things like the "url-status" field and the "archive-url" field, in the {{tl|cite web}} template. 

:Those ('''external''' [[dead link]]) situations are typically due to circumstances that are beyond the control of the [[Wikipedia]] community ... including not only the editors of articles [etc.] on [[Wikipedia]], but also the planners and designers of "how stuff works" on [[Wikipedia]] ... the people who probably are mainly responsible for deciding -- and 'figuring out' -- ''"how to do" stuff'' on [[Wikipedia]] ... e.g., from the point of view of an editor. 

:Those "circumstances that are beyond our control" situations strike me as being different (in at least some ways) from other kinds of situations, where the planners and designers of "how stuff works" on on [[Wikipedia]] ... might actually have (the potential for ... an opportunity for ... coming up with) a way to prevent those "[[dead link]]" -type situations, from arising (so much) in the first place. 

:This has been on my mind for some time. 

:[[Wikipedia]]'s current way of doing things (including, the changing of the URL's of stuff that is getting archived) ... is not a principle of the universe. It might be '''difficult''' to "refactor" how things are done, and to re-consider the whole "philosophy" as well as the technical  "implementation" of ... how archiving is done; but ...IMHO that should be '''considered.'''

:Any comments? (anyone)? --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 21:10, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

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== Typos on Letterwise ==

I was on that article and I confess unfortunately to being the worlds worst speller and grammar person and have a triage of followers who go around after me.  This article and at least one associate one was subject to some heavy AfD's so may have exhausted me.  Thankyou. [[User:Djm-leighpark|Djm-leighpark]] ([[User talk:Djm-leighpark|talk]]) 22:16, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

:The above "reply" was probably '''''in "response" to''''' (or at least... '''''after''''') this edit was done: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=LetterWise&diff=prev&oldid=1020210368.<br/>
:'''(right?)'''<br/> 
::(Here is a partial QUOTE from the "edit" comment [part of the above "diff"]): 
::(→‎History: Change ONE LETTER in order to correct a MINOR mistake [...] This was probably just a minor TYPO [...])<br/>
: --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 04:41, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

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Hi '''Mike Schwartz'''! The thread you created at the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse]], {{tq|Missing TOCs! (with 2022 skin)}}, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days.

You can still [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1153#Missing_TOCs!_(with_2022_skin)|read the archived discussion]]. If you have follow-up questions, please {{Edit |1=Wikipedia:Teahouse |2=create a new thread |section=new |preload=Wikipedia:Teahouse/Preload |preloadtitle=Follow-up to [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1153#Missing_TOCs!_(with_2022_skin)|Missing TOCs! (with 2022 skin)]]}}.


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=== REPLY from [[User:Mike_Schwartz]]: ===  
:Thanks. 
:This message was informative, but it did NOT include the info that '''the new URL''' (or ... the new wikilink) for that "moved" section, is now 
:* [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1153#Missing TOCs! (with 2022 skin)]]  

:That would have been more helpful. (especially the specific number -- 1153 -- before the # sign.)
:'''In fact,''' it would have been '''even more''' helpful, if there had been some way, ... that a "permalink" (-like) (or ... maybe even "DOI" -like) URL, could have been created and provided to me ... '''as soon as''' that section [called "#Missing TOCs! (with 2022 skin)"] was created! (It was created by me.) 

:Just my 0.02. 
:Thanks for listening. --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 04:06, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

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== "Correction" to edit comment  ==

I would almost say that ... this is (like) one that "got away". 

When I edit an article, if I forget to include one of the changes, or ... if I include one or more "incorrect" (or otherwise "regrettable") changes, then ... there is still an opportunity -- perhaps the next day, or even sooner ... to edit [[that same article]] '''again,''' and make some correction[s].<br/><br/>
However, in the case of ... where a slip of the mouse or keyboard has resulted in ('''un'''intentionally) finalizing an edit, when the "edit comment" is (in the opinion of the editor) not really ready for prime time, then ... there is no such second chance. 

NOTE: The finalizing of the edit, can be caused -- '''un'''intentionally or not -- by 
clicking on "<code>Publish Changes</code>", but I think it is possible for it to ''[instead]'' be caused by a slip of the ''keyboard''. 

Just for the record, before I decided -- today -- to "intentionally" finalize [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abba_Gumel&diff=1139167414&oldid=1132430538 this] recent edit, I was planning to '''change the "edit comment"''' to say:<blockquote>/* top */ change the brackets in the wikilink for the entry about "Fellow, [[Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics]] (SIAM)". Instead of having the brackets surround the entire entry there, which [before this edit] caused the entire entry there to be displayed as a [[Wikipedia:Red link|red link]], instead, retain the [[Wikipedia:Red link|red link]] for the word "Fellow", and make (most of) the rest of that entry, a [blue] link, pointing to the article about [the organization] "SIAM".</blockquote>However, by then it was too late ... my changes to the article itself, had already happened. (With ... apparently ... an older version of the "edit comment".)

Maybe I could have added (or deleted) a blank somewhere (one that does not matter), and inserted the newer (more "up to date") comment; but instead I decided to add this little section (will anyone read it? maybe not...) here. 

Enjoy . . . [[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 20:44, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

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== Love the edit comments ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Surreal Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Surreal_Barnstar.png|100px]]}}
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Surreal Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Your edit comments are wonderful
|}
I have often written a simple but boring edit comment of — {{TQ|undab}}
: but you wrote an edit comment of — {{TQ|Correct (or, "improve") an ambiguous hyperlink, by replacing a wikilink that was (incorrectly, in a sense) pointing to, or "linking" to, a destination ("Cohort") that was a "disambiguation" page. In fact, before this edit, that wikilink was pointing to [the ambiguous page] "Cohort" *** via *** a page that is explicitly a disambiguation page: "Cohort (disambiguation)". Better: point (or, link) instead, to: "Cohort (taxonomy)".}}
which was >70 times the size of the correction — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 14:07, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

:duly noted. --[[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 15:14, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

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== "Explanatory only" edit summaries ==

Hi Mike! I saw your recent edits on [[2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators]], I just wanted to say that you don't need to explain your edits to the point that you're making edits so the message can explain previous edits. First, it's not possible to have an empty comment, so something has to be changed (which in the case of your edits ended up being adding a space between refs, which is not correct Wiki procedure). Second, edit summaries are just supposed to help other editors parse histories, so unfortunately adding extra summaries to try to explain previous ones can just end up doing more harm than good. If you must, I'd encourage using the talk page for these kind of things in the future, but also you don't need to worry about it so much in general! People are very understanding on here, and nobody will get mad at you for a slightly incorrect edit summaries (believe me, I've made mistakes with them too). Thank you for always including an edit summary and happy editing! [[user:wasianpower|🌸&#8288;wasianpower&#8288;🌸]] ([[User talk:Wasianpower|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Wasianpower|contribs]]) 01:31, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:[in reply to] @[[User:Wasianpower|Wasianpower]] : I was kinda nervous ... I had already started to do one edit (the first one, where I really did improve some "ref" tags) and ... most of what ensued, that was challenging to me, was [kinda] ''caused by'' the fact that many changes *per hour* were occurring, since  this was an on-going "current event" kind of topic, for an article-space page being updated. 
:So, on that first edit ... I did not want to mess with the advice from some 'robot' [shell script?] about "merging" my changes with some "existing" changes. I thought that it would be far easier to just save my (carefully crafted) edit comment, by doing a copy-n-paste operation to some other tab of my [Chrome] web browser, and then also do 2 small copy-n-paste operations ... one for each of my (pretty SMALL!) changes. 
::(Each one of my TWO small changes, there, was a change to the value of the "|website=" field, in a "<code><nowiki>{{Cite web}}</nowiki></code>" [template instance] in a "ref" tag for a footnote. In both cases, the issue was that the value of the "|website=" field, was a [[wikilink]] pointing to a '''disambiguation page.''' The ''solution'' was: to update the [[wikilink]] to '''bypass''' that dab page, and simply point instead to the appropriate (article space) page ... that is ''more specific than'' pointing to the dab page.) 
:Almost everything went well, except that: by the time I figured out what to do 
::(partly by means of visiting [the dab page] [[KSTP]], and seeing what the possible choices were, there, to select from, and figuring out which one of those "more specific" choices was appropriate) 
:and by the time I typed in those edits, "and" [by the time I] also carefully composed (and 'typed in') my "EDIT comment", there had been '''several''' other changes that were made, by others, to that article. Sometimes things move fast when there is a "current event" and news items are zapping across the internet one after another. 
:Most of the other changes (by other editors) probably had nothing to do with the section -- /* Aftermath */ -- that *I* was trying to update, but still ... I was very leery of ... trying to follow the advice from some 'robot' [shell script?] about "merging" my changes with those "other" changes. I figured (perhaps correctly) that by the time I got "some" merging accomplished -- assuming I could keep everything straight -- by then there might be '''some more''' changes that had intervened (occurred in the mean time) and I would be (kinda) stuck again. 
:So . . . instead, I decided to just "save" my changes (there were only two of them, and they were very small), and also "save" my "EDIT comment" [it was BIG ... 500 bytes] -- (and all of those 'saves' were [of course] done in a different "TAB" of my [Chrome] web browser) and ... then I could kinda START OVER by [A] clicking on "Cancel", and then later [B] re-doing the whole edit. 
:That is pretty much what did happen, and it went pretty well. 
:But '''then,''' I noticed that I had forgotten to "update" the footnote numbers that were mentioned specifically (by number) in my "EDIT comment". (Maybe I should have been a little bit less specific in my "EDIT comment", by not specifying the "footnote numbers"? '''Next time!''') When I "re-did" my [first] edit, it took in ALL of the previous edits by others, that finished before I ("re-") started my [first] edit; and since I was able to do that "re-do" of my [first] edit, within about 7 minutes from the time I started it ... I was fortunate and no edits by others "intervened" in between. 
:An so ... everything would probably have been fine, if I had just thought to '''update''' the footnote numbers in my "EDIT comment". But I did not realize that this was necessary. The changes since I started off on '''the "idea"''' of "saving" stuff and "starting over", were numerous, even though there were ZERO during that seven minutes, which began once I actually started my "re-do". I probably completely spaced out, and *forgot* about [the possible "issue" of] the fact that footnote numbers can change, when others are doing [a flurry! of] edits, AND the fact that I had specified specific footnote numbers in my [original] "EDIT comment". 
:So then I tried to put in a later edit, with an "explanatory only" edit comment (there is no way ... at least, no way that I know of ... to *edit* an "EDIT comment".) I thought that was going to be the end of it, but -- as luck would have it! -- while I was writing that "explanatory only" edit comment, the footnote numbers '''changed again!''' 
:At that point (if not sooner) perhaps I should have just given up, and just put my "explanations" on a "Talk:" page ... perhaps either [[Talk:2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators]], or else, maybe *this* talk page (*my* talk page). 
:Thanks for your patience. 
:In the future, maybe they will allow users -- even if only "some" users, like me -- to EDIT (or "update") their own "EDIT comments". 
:If that never happens (any time soon) then ... maybe I should just rely more [when one of my "EDIT comments" has some kind of an "issue", let's say] on "Talk:" pages, or ... on the [kind hearted] readers (of my "EDIT comments", etc.) cutting me some slack. 
:Thank you. 
:= [[User:Mike Schwartz|Mike Schwartz]] ([[User talk:Mike Schwartz#top|talk]]) 08:07, 16 June 2025 (UTC)