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Hello,

Since 1/06 I'm no longer regularly online, or check my talk.   I still checkin occasionally and will come back later. If I don't respond, pls post email.

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== [[Talk:Abraham Lincoln]] ==

I removed your strange thread. If you want to ask your question again, without linking it to a Political blog asking about Clinton this time,  then go ahead. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 22:52, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

== [[Thomas Lincoln]] ==

Hi, 

I reverted your edit, because you made a change without referring to sources to correct the information. In addition, if there is a discrepancy, it is best to state the discrepancy and how it is resolved.

Otherwise, some could read the info in the source. Assume a typo. And, change it back. I am happy to help with this if you can provide the source(s).--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 19:28, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

:Moved to this talk page, per request, from [[User talk:CaroleHenson]]
::I was updating my correction, as you rolled your's in.  My 3rd edit went in after your's. I left the age as 6 and added a note for the discrepancy.  Is this better?
::BTW: how do we get this chatter thread on my talk page instead of yours?  How do I reply to you on my talk page?  

::It's been a while since I made any revisions.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LarryLACa|contribs]]) 20:53, 24 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::Great! Annoying for the editor making a series of changes when these things happen at the same time, though! Sorry about that. 

::::As an aside, If you ever want to make a few edits and prefer not to be disturbed, you can add <nowiki>{{in use}}</nowiki> at the top of the article page, and then remove it when you're done. That means for others - don't make any edits right now. That's for short updates. If you want to make more significant changes over a period of hours or days, you can add <nowiki>{{under construction}}</nowiki>, knowing that other editors may make edits while you do your work.

:::You can respond, here, on your talk page, and if you want me to see it right a way you can type <nowiki>{{u|CaroleHenson}}</nowiki> and I'll respond to your page.--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 21:06, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks {{u|CaroleHenson}} 
See also the Lincoln [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln#Early_life_and_family_ancestry| early life section]] and the Lincoln Early Life [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Abraham_Lincoln#Ancestry| ancestry section]] for similar.

In the main article I reverted to 6 and added a note about the discrepancy.

In the early life article I left the revision as 8.
[[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 22:05, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

:I'm trying to sort this out. In Donald's book, it says he was eight. What books does it say he was six? Do you have a source for him being born in 1778, I'm sure that's right, but it would be good to have it in the note, too.  Especially since there are some sources that say he was born in 1776, per the note - unfortunately without sources.--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 22:22, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

::Ok, I made the changes. It looks like the full quote with the age was from Donald, and he said "eight", so eight is right there. I update the first two notes on the page with citations. How does that look to you now?--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 22:44, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks again {{u|CaroleHenson}}
I found an e-copy of Donald's Lincoln, confirmed his quote of eight-year-old as correct.
The Thomas page looks good now.  Made a minor wording tweak to your comment.

I looked at the Thomas page history.  There's a history gap from 10/6 to 11/24 (my first 'revert' edit).  On 10/6 it read 8, on 11/24 I claimed to have reverted it to 8, which makes no sense.  I added an item on the Thomas talk page on 11/23 (the day before).  I looked at my browser history and can't sort it out.  Looks like a bogus 'revert' statement by me.  Probably added after working on the Pres. Lincoln pages.

There are/were 'six-year-old Thomas' usage on both the Pres. Lincoln main page, and his early life page.  Those still need work.  Tomorrow..or..soon, I'm already booked tomorrow..

BTW: The 10/6 version of the Thomas page had 3 refs for the quoted text: Donald, Weyland, Hutchinson.  It now only refs Donald.  Since there has been no content change to the quote, it's probably better to restore the Weyland and Hutchinson refs. [[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 08:18, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Re: Thomas Ancestry refs:
I see where {{u|CaroleHenson}} relocated the Wayland ref: from the Donald quote to the end of the next paragraph on ancestry.
The Lea/Hutchinson ref has been lost.  Reading the text, look for the best place to relocate it.
{{u|CaroleHenson}}: whats the easiest way to drag the Lea/Hutchinson cite
from the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_Lincoln&oldid=744703740 Thomas 10/16/16 history backup] back to the current Thomas article.
[[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 21:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

:I only found that the Donald source had the quote.
:This citation has multiple page: <nowiki><ref>{{cite book | title=The Ancestry of Abraham Lincoln. (Google book full text) | publisher=Houghton Mifflin |author1=Lea, J. Henry |author2=Hutchinson, John R. | year=1909 | location=Boston | pages=63–64, 68–72, 76–77, 82–83}}</ref></nowiki>
:I'm not sure where it belongs. Was I missing something. Is the quote that your wishing to cite on one of these pages? If so, then we just need the page that it's on. 
:If the quote isn't on the page, then it shouldn't be used as a source there, right?--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 21:26, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I reanchored the Lea/Hutchinson ref at the end of the early life section.  The breaks in the page range were only to exclude the illustrations.  pp 63-77 includes English and colonial ancestors.  78-86 covers Capt.Abraham and Thomas, including how Mordecai saved Thomas and Thomas being excluded from the inheritance.  Dates and ages vary considerably from today's accepted info, but it's a much older source (1909 cmp Donald 1996) and reads like a genealogy treasure hunt of the time. The attack is cited as early summer 1785, Mordecai, Josiah, Thomas ages as 21, 15, 5.

I think it's worthwhile keeping as a historical source.  You? {{u|CaroleHenson}}

To Do: fix the Thomas six-year-old refs on the Pres. Lincoln pages
[[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 02:51, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

OK.  No changes needed on Pres.Lincoln Early Life Page.  Did that a couple of days ago.

Changes six to eight on the Pres.Lincoln main page,  update refs, add Herndon's Informants as older source for age six.  I see WilsonDavis has a deprecated flag.  Should I add deprecated to the Lea/Hutchinson ref on the Thomas page? How? Thanks again..{{u|CaroleHenson}}?
[[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 03:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

::Oh, hi there. I saw your comment earlier, but I was working on an article. I just finished. 

::The placement of the citation that you mentioned earlier makes sense in that it's the right place for it. There are a ton of citations there, though, and I don't know what goes with what sentence. I wanted to look at that.

::Regarding use of an older source... it's actually better to use modern sources by historians who have sorted out the facts. There were so many theories and misstatements about Lincoln's life and using older sources can be taking a couple of steps back. That's not to say, though, that there's an issue with this source. I don't remember. I need to look at it.

::I don't know what you mean about the deprecated flag. I've got to check that out to. I'll do that first.--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 03:53, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

:::Oh, I've got it. I think you meant the [[Abraham Lincoln]] article. I see "Cite uses deprecated parameter |coauthors"... that is because the coauthors parameter is no longer used. I'll make the fix.--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 03:56, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

::::For the last paragraph in [[Thomas Lincoln#Early life|Thomas Lincoln § Early life]], I made some changes to put the inline with the text being cited. I'm having a hard time with the sentence about Lincoln between 1795 and 1802. It may be in Wayland's book - I cannot see it, it's only in snippet view.--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 05:01, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

{{u|CaroleHenson}} - Thanks for helping this along.  This is the first time I've worked with personal historical text.  Much different from tracking the history of a technical / hard science concept.  As there are a number of refs before 1950, I'm hesitant to sanitize them, though clearly inaccurate.  It's been revealing to deal with the 1909, 1925 articles and I even looked at the NIU Herndon Informants source archives from the late 1800's.  I think it's worthwhile for anyone doing a little digging, looking through the refs, to see the breadth of opinion in the past.  
[[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 06:27, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

:Which article has a lot of refs before 1950?--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 06:56, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

:I am doing some clean-up on the citations in the Thomas Lincoln article. So, hopefully that addresses the concern there. Is there another article that have you have the same concerns about? Thanks!!!--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 07:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Additional changes ===
I created a subjection because this is getting long.... and I'm picking up a new, related topic:
* It was really hard to read the article in edit mode because of the number of citations, so I made them {{tl|Sfn}}s - which also makes it easier to identify that old books. Except for at least one that is a later edition of an old book. Will work on that.
* I worked on this article three years ago, before I knew not to glump the citations at an edit of a paragraph. So, 1) I am working on putting in inline citations and 2) removing unnecessary citations. One is only ever needed, unless there a point that might be contentious (which I would put in a note anyway). And, it is best if the source is one of the noted historians. For instance, Goodwin could be used more.
* I found the original version of the photograph of Lincoln, but it's a bit dark. There's an earlier version that is not as dark, but for some reason kind of scares me - the way it's cropped. He's facial expression is a little strange. There are three versions [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Thomas_Herring_Lincoln.jpg here]. What do you think?--<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] [[User talk:CaroleHenson|''(talk)'']]</span> 17:38, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

::Great work! It's a much better article now.  To think this all started over the eight vs six-year-old discrepancy is amazing.

::Looks like you cleaned out all the old refs.  Clarity is good, but I think there should be more coverage of how we got to where we are.  I'm an engineer by trade, QA is second nature.  Knowing why an answer is correct is just as important as knowing the answer.  I wish there was a mechanism for making (the article) history more understandable.  Yet another article about an article..

::Re: Thomas photographs: all three visually derive from the same source. As a publisher I'd go for the zoomed in cropped edit 13:09 29 Nov 2016.  I think readers would like it better.  The original is historic but too dark.

::BTW - fixed the source tag on the commons image.  chg 'subjection' to 'subsection' or is that standard jargon? [[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 02:48, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

== [[Molai forest]] ==

What was the rationale behind the "ended in 2014" statement [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Molai_forest&diff=796422823&oldid=795043490 you added here]? [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 22:11, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

:In the [[Jadav Payeng]] it states he continued after the 5 year forestry project started in 1979, +5 should be 1984.  Oops typo.  Corrected with cite: abandoned after 3 years from 1980: 1983.  Thanks {{u|ThumperWard}} [[User:LarryLACa|LarryLACa]] ([[User talk:LarryLACa#top|talk]]) 22:59, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

:: Ah! Thanks for the fix. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 18:06, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

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If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2022/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2022|poll}}|voting page]]'''.  If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 00:21, 29 November 2022 (UTC)</small>

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== ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message ==

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Hello! Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2023|2023 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2023|end}}-1 day}}. All '''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023#Election timeline|eligible users]]''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2023|poll}}|voting page]]'''.  If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 00:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

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== Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C 2024==

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Dear Wikimedian,

You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.

This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the [[m:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2024|voting page on Meta-wiki]] to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please [[m:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Charter|review the U4C Charter]].

Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.

On behalf of the UCoC project team,<section end="announcement-content" />

[[m:User:RamzyM (WMF)|RamzyM (WMF)]] 23:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
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== ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message ==

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Hello! Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2024|2024 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2024|end}}-1 day}}. All '''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024#Election timeline|eligible users]]''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2024|poll}}|voting page]]'''.  If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 00:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</small>

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