View source for User talk:Babelfisch

At the moment, I can't contribute to articles and discussions without violating the Wikipedia [[Wikipedia:No open proxies|policy against open proxies]], because the Chinese government has blocked access to Wikipedia, including the SSL-based URLs. If Wikipedia administrators collude with the censorship authorities, I'll  be blocked for constantly violating that policy. Sometimes I can't access Wikipedia at all, so I can't always promptly answer questions on this page. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 09:37, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Some parts of Wikipedia have been unblocked by the Chinese government a few weeks ago, but many pages still can't be viewed or edited without a proxy. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Hardblocking [[Wikipedia:No open proxies|open proxies]] has been downgraded from a [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|valid policy]] to a [[:Category:Wikipedia proposals|proposal]]. Some administrators continue to hardblock proxies and refuse to convert these blocks into soft blocks, even without any official policy – but there is some hope. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Hardblocking has been re-installed as a policy. I've asked for seven proxies to be softblocked. All requests were rejected out of hand. Users from China are consistently blocked and interest in solving that problem is minimal.

I've been totally blocked, I can't edit any articles or talk pages, nor my own user page. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Still blocked. Quote of the day:
:“I am a strong supporter of people using Tor to edit Wikipedia, and I think the current situation is quite unfortunate. There are complications to be sure, but the idea that admins can use Tor, while ordinary users can not, does not strike me as particularly appropriate. Anyone who is a normal trusted editor ought to be able to use Tor if they like... and why not?--Jimbo Wales 19:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC)” (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_26 User Talk: Jimbo Wales, Archive 26])
But who cares? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Found another workaround, but will probably be blocked again as soon as zealous administrators realise that. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 03:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Solution: IP block exemption granted in May 2008. Briefly revoked in February 2011, but restored after a couple of weeks and lots of explaining.<br>And now: IP block exemption revoked again by over-zealous administrator. They really don't want Chinese users. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 18:23, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

IP block exemption restored. Thanks. It only took six weeks of explaining, arguing, petitioning, supplicating. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 17:48, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

== Chinese characters ==

No need to add Chinese if they can be written on their own articles (which can be accessed thru the Wiki-link). This makes the article easier on the eyes (keep in mind this is the English WP, not Chinese+English WP). See [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style for China-related articles#Insertion of Chinese characters]] for more explanations (there isn't much more...) --[[User:Menchi|Menchi]] 13:14, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

== Webmaster? ==

Hello. Aren't you the webmaster of [http://uk.geocities.com/BabelStone1357/]? I'm just a bit curious. --[[User:Nanshu|Nanshu]] 02:45, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

:No, I'm not. [[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 08:17, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

== Common phrases in Esperanto ==

Hello, I removed your Esperanto entry from [[Common phrases in different languages]] and merged it with the existing one in [[Common phrases in constructed languages]]. -- [[User:Pne|pne]] 15:16, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

== Hello ==

I read it from a book relating to the Tibetan people, one of which tells about their history. -- [[User:Mr Tan|Mr Tan]] 16:16, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

:Could you be a little more specific and give a full reference? (or reference'''s''' - "a book ... one of which ...") [[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:07, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

== Hebrew ==

Oops. Thanks for correcting my mistake on the Hebrew page. I really do know the difference between voicing and occlusiveness, though. I swear. Take care --[[User:Whimemsz|Whimemsz]] 02:27, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Oops. Thanks for correcting my mistake on the [[Hebrew_language|Hebrew]] page. It was some [[clipboard]] problem, not browser's or editor's one. Fixed and will never happen again. I swear. Take care --[[User:Shaul|Shaul]] 17:56, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== [[Hani]] & [[Jino]] ==

Babelfisch,

My source for the other spellings for these people is the Paul Noll Chinese Minorities page, specificially the section called [http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Minorities/China-alt-spell.html Alternate Minority Spellings in China]. ---[[User:Hottentot|Hottentot]]

:And where did he get that from? "Ahka" is simply a typo, that should be "Akha". And I couldn't find any source that called the Hani "Hakka". The Hakka Han-Chinese speakers of a certain Chinese dialect - Kejia &#23458;&#23478;. The Tu are also never called "Du". I don't think that site is very authoritative. [[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:17, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Hi Babelfisch,

Thanks for your hard work on [[Goguryeo]].  I know that I've seen your edits on other Korea-related articles as well, although I can't remember which ones -- thanks for those too, wherever they were.

Please continue to keep an eye on the Goguryeo page.  There appears to be yet another conflict emerging.  I will add the hangul -- unless someone beats me to it -- as soon as I'm on a computer that has Korean keyboard support. 

Cheers,

-- [[User:Visviva|Visviva]] 04:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

== addition of native names ==

Hi do you know of any sources for native names of [[Autonomous entities of China|autonomous entities]] in China? [[User:Abstrakt|Abstrakt]]

:There are many and they are easy to find if you can read the languages involved. (If not, you'll be at loss anyway.) The problem is that some minorities don't have well-established written languages.
:*For place names in Inner Mongolia, there is the very comprehensive '''Nèi Měnggǔ dìmíng cídiǎn''', ''Hàn-Méng duìzhào'' 《内蒙古地名词典》汉蒙对照 (''Nèi Měnggǔ rénmín chūbǎnshè'' 内蒙古人民出版社，2000);
:*for Tibetan place names, there is '''Yīng, Hàn, Zàng Xīzàng dìmíng duìzhào''' 《英、汉、藏西藏地名对照》, in: ''Xīzàng yánjiū'' 《西藏研究》 1997.4 and 1998.1, and several books and lists produced by agencies such as Xinhua;
:*for Xinjiang, see ''Niú Rǔchén'' 牛汝辰: '''Xīnjiāng dìmíng gàishuō''' 《新疆地名概说》 (''Zhōngyāng mínzú dàxué chūbǎnshè'' 中央民族大学出版社 1994） etc.
:Some dictionaries for minority languages contain place names. Place names in languages of smaller minorities, such as in Yunnan, are generally rather difficult to find unless you go to those areas. — [[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

== Tai L(e|u) ==

Sorry to take so long to reply, I've just come back to Jinghong from a trip south through Thailand and Laos.  I'm a bit confused as to the current state of things article-wise, as I can't see phonetics and am not familiar with the scripts or the finer linguistic properties of the language spoken here.  

Firstly, I saw the [http://www.cass.cn/minzusuo/mzwz/ site you mentioned] but it seems to only have one Dai/Tai script [http://www.cass.cn/minzusuo/mzwz/07.htm here].  This is strange, as there are at least 3 as far as I know (I was informed by a monk at the largest temple in XSBN, so I take it that this is fairly informed/good advice) - the 'new' (government-simpified), the 'old' (possibly two of these, one for xsbn and one for dehong prefecture, though the latter is possibly just lanna .. I don't recall) and the 'lanna' ("ancient"), which IIRC was used and/or more influential in Dehong than in XSBN), however from what I can see on Wikipedia right now there is a distinction being made between 'Tai Le' (redirected to 'Tai Nua'), and 'Tai Lu', with the latter being placed here in Xishuangbanna.  

It's important when considering this to remember that scripts and languages have different distinctions - all of the scripts are used to write at least both [[Pali]] and a local vernacular.

One possible omission is that I can tell you that some Tai people of northern Laos ([[Luang Namtha]] Province) speak a language VERY similar to what the Dai people speak here in Xishuangbanna - 90% sure it's the same, as the area is physically adjacent.  I won't make this change myself as I'm unsure right now which article is which language, or indeed, which languages are about!  

I wish I had access to an English library to figure this out.  I'll have to leave it to someone else, but AFAIK the current state of things looks misleading and/or incorrect, re: what languages are about, their geographical coverage, scripts they are written in, from whence they came, etc.   Just wanted to make this clear.  [[User:Pratyeka|prat]] 00:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
::Oops, just noticed the entry for XSBN new dai script on the link you sent.  That source isn't too bad, then.  However, this is a distinction between ''scripts'', not between ''languages''.
::If you see 'languages recorded' on each Dai script's page, you get cop-out entries like 德宏傣语 (Dehong Dai) - a wholly Chinese concept (is it the same as Shan across the border?) - and 勐定傣语 (Mengding Dai). 
::It appears that in moving articles around we've ended up with [[Tai Lü language]] and [[Tai Nüa language]], which do not map well to either these sources or my experiences.  I'm at a loss as to the actual situation, however. [[User:Pratyeka|prat]] 00:16, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

:::There is actually an entry showing the [http://www.cass.cn/minzusuo/mzwz/34/sample34-5.htm new old-Dai government-simplified script] (新老傣文对照课本) on that site, which I guess can be contrasted with the actual old Dai script in other entries ([http://www.cass.cn/minzusuo/mzwz/34/sample34-3.htm 勐泐王族世系]).  These are both listed under the mixed heading "[[Xishuangbanna]] [[Dai]] / Old Dai (西双版纳新、老傣文)".  So you can see there's at least 3 scripts, New XSBN Simplified Dai ('new old Dai'), XSBN Dai, and Dehong Dai.  The relationship to the old Lanna script is still unclear to me, however I seem to recall the monk I met told me the Dehong Dai was traditional for monastic use so it very well may be the same (and the bearer of the 'old dai' name).  Anyway this tells us nothing about distinctions between languages, which seemingly are the only subject of the current 2-wiki's contents... [[User:Pratyeka|prat]] 00:28, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure there is a dialect continuum between most of these languages or dialects, blurred by some migration: Thai, Lao, Tai Nüa (Dehong Dai) and Tai Lü (Xishuangbanna Dai) in China, Shan in Myanmar, and other Tai languages and dialects in Thailand, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam etc. That makes things complicated. Thai nationalists usually suggest that all these languages are just Thai dialects. Chinese sources tend to ignore what's going on across the Chinese border.

I can't tell how far these languages are really apart. One source I found says that Tai Lü and Tai Nüa are not mutually comprehensible. Another says that comparing lists of 1400 words from the basic vocabulary of Tai Lü and Tai Nüa, we can find 75% are identical - which is actually a rather low figure. So far I didn't find any sources for the other languages or dialects of the Dai in China, but Chinese sources mention two other written languages.

Some other points you've mentioned:

* '''Pali'''. I can't imagine that all the modern alphabets are also used to write Pali. On one hand, they have been simplified so much that they lack distinctions that are not made in the modern spoken languages, but these distinction have to be made in Pali; on the other hand the monasteries probably don't give up their writing traditions just because the Chinese government issues a decree for a new script. Writing systems for everyday use (Tai languages) and for religious purposes (mostly Pali) should be clearly distinguished.

* '''The Dai of China, Lanna script and Tai languages outside China'''. I have not really looked for sources on Tai languages outside China, nor for liturgic scripts.

* '''Languages and scripts'''. In China today, the Dai use four modern written languages, namely Tai Lü (Xishuangbanna Dai) and Tai Nüa (Dehong Dai), and two others which are called 傣绷 (Tai Pong) and 傣担/傣端 (Tai Dam or Jinping Dai). (The table in the article on the [[Dai people]] is not correct, I'm afraid.) I don't fully understand what alphabets were used for these languages before the 1950s or are still used in monasteries. For '''Tai Lü''', a reformed script called 新傣文 was introduced in 1954. An older form was officially revived ten, twenty years ago. For '''Tai Nüa''', a reformed script was introduced in 1954 as well. The original Tai Nüa script was apparently derived from the Tai Pong alphabet, which in turn was a modified Burmese alphabet, and still today some Tai Nüa fonts resemble Burmese very closely, but not the style that is usually used today. In the 1970s/1980s, new tone letters were introduced for Tai Nüa. I don't know enough yet about '''Tai Pong''' and '''Tai Dam'''.

The CASS pages actually give fairly detailed and yet very short descriptions not only of these writing systems, but also about where they are used. Small-town bookshops usually are not very well stocked, but I guess you could find material in Jinghong.

What I'm absolutely sure about is that what you called Tai Le is actually Dehong Dai / Tai Nüa. The images of the alphabet you put into that article make that absolutely clear.

Terminology is a serious problem, of course. We probably need more tables and samples, but encoding is yet another problem. Only Tai Lü ("New Tai Lue") and Tai Nüa ("Tai Le") are covered by Unicode so far. I've tried to make things as clear as possible, but of course I'm aware that the result is still far from ideal. — [[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:01, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

== Wikipedia censored in China – proxy blocked ==

The Chinese government seems to have been censoring Wikipedia since October 18th, 2005. (see [http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15374 Online encyclopedia Wikipedia censored] by Reporters sans frontières) I haven't been able to edit pages directly since I returned to Beijing on October 16th. The only proxy that I know which isn't blocked by Chinese government censorship has been blocked by the Wikipedia administrator [[user:Ral315|Ral315]] because someone has used this IP address (67.15.136.199) to vadalise Wikipedia articles.

At the moment, this discussion page seems to be the only page I'm able to edit, even if I log in, because I have to use this proxy. I hope there will be a solution for this problem soon, or users in China will remain barred from Wikipedia. — [[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 14:22, 25 September 2005 (Beijing time)

: Hope you get access again soon. I've posted some discussion on [[Talk:SIL_International]]. [[User:DanielVonFange]]

== How do we input pinyin with tones? ==
Are there instructions somewhere for inputting the special characters needed for letters with tone marks? It's wonderful that people are so conscientious about this. This is one area where Wikipedia is ahead of the curve. [[User:Sigrid|Sigrid]] 23:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

:When you edit articles in Wikipedia, below the three buttons ''Save page'' / ''Show Preview'' / ''Show changes'', you'll see a box with special characters. When you click on one of them, it will be inserted. In MS Word it's possible to define key combinations for special characters. (I guess you'll need something like that even for Pinyin without tones, because ''ü'' is not on an English keyboard.) Recent versions of Word also have a function to add Pinyin to Chinese characters ("ruby"), which I find useful, although it is not very reliable. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

::I suppose that should have been obvious. Thanks! I don't use Word, and in WordPerfect at least not all tone mark/letter combinations exist. I use a special font to include tone marks in my word processed documents. [[User:Sigrid|Sigrid]] 01:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

== [[Operation Auca]] ==

I've responded to your comments on [[Talk:Operation Auca]]. --[[User:Spangineer|Spangineer]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Spangineer|<span style="color:brown; font-size:smaller;">(háblame)</span>]] 03:04, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

:Could you take another look at this article?  I've resolved to most of your objections (though I'm not sure what other examples of racism there are; in any case I changed the example you mentioned and added sourced description of the Huaorani lifestyle).  I also left "hope to present Christianity" and described my reasoning on the talk page.  The only one I haven't gotten to yet as far as I can tell is mentioning which mission board each missionary was associated with.  By adding more information from non-missionary sources I hope that you see this as less POV and that you would be willing to remove the NPOV dispute tag.  If that action is conditional on the inclusion of the missionary board information, this weekend I'll try to write a subsection under "background" that covers the basics of each of the five guys and includes their mission organizations.  I'd also appreciate it if you let me know if there's anything else that needs to be improved. Thanks! —[[User:Spangineer|Spangineer]]<sup>[[:es:Usuario:Spangineer|[es]]]</sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:Spangineer|<span style="color:brown; font-size:smaller;">(háblame)</span>]] 06:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

::Hi Babelfisch, I've recently been working on an "Aftermath" section, and I'd like your opinion on it.  It's not as detailed as the account you included in the [[Rachel Saint]] article, but I think that's acceptable since the subject of the article is the actual encounter of the five men with the Huaorani.  The aftermath is obviously important, but I feel that fewer specific details are necessary.  Even so, if you can think of anything that needs to be added, please suggest it.  At this point, I planning to add a section called "Preparation" or something similar that discusses the events of the last few months of 1955, and I'm going to expand the "Legacy" section.  Anything else you think is necessary? —[[User:Spangineer|Spangineer]]<sup>[[:es:Usuario:Spangineer|[es]]]</sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:Spangineer|<span style="color:brown; font-size:smaller;">(háblame)</span>]] 03:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

== [[User:Endroit/Chinese_Romanization]] ==

Hello.  Please check out [[User:Endroit/Chinese_Romanization]], and make additions/corrections where necessary.  I am asking Yuje, Ran, Visviva, Nanshu, Babelfisch, Kusunose, and Saintjust to check and modify this '''Chinese Romanization''' proposal within the next 5 days.<BR>
After that we should move this '''Chinese Romanization''' page to a Project Page, and then request formal Mediation/Arbitration.  I would like to nominate Yuje or Ran to be the leader for this project.  Or I can be leader also.  Please let me know what you think.  Thanks.--[[User:Endroit|Endroit]] 09:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== ‘phrin las ==

Say, why do you change Tibetan ''‘phrin las'' from "Chilai" to "Chinlai"? What's your source? On the internet, "Chilai" seems to be more common. Also, you may wish to comment on [[Talk:Official Tibetan transcription]]. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]])</sup> 04:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

:"Chilai" is found in some foreign-language publications from China, but it's wrong. The reason is probably that in Chinese the name is usually written "''Chìliè'' 赤列". The ''n'' of the Tibetan name is pronounced and the official transcription should reflect that. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 05:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

::Cool,I appreciate your input on this sort of thing. Still, I wonder what your source is for this info, partly because I might try to get ahold of it myself. It does seem that "chinlai" is less common on the internet: "chinlai dojê" and "chinlai gyaco" turn up no google hits other than your edits to the English and German Wikipedias. However, this is hardly conclusive, because there are quite few hits for "chinlai dojê" and "chinlai gyaco" (exactly one non-Wikipedia for the latter). - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]])</sup> 05:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

== pls check edits before reverting ==

Hi,

It seems you didn't notice in the SIL article that I'd moved the section on funding allegations further down (so that the SIL denial of funding from rockefellers would have a more immediate context), and you reinserted the paragraph where I'd moved it from. The remaining info in that paragraph is either repitition from further above (countries were work was halted), or somewhat questionable (e.g. limited in Peru by the 1980s...?). 

Best, --[[User:Drmaik|Drmaik]] 09:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

== [[Oisêr]] ==

Looks like my comments on [[Talk:Öser]] last week got lost and didn't appear. Sorry for the delay this caused. I'll try to recompose and post them soon.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]])</sup> 18:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

== xinjiang template ==

hi there, a user has recently created a template for the administrative divisions of Xinjiang [[Template:Xinjiang Administrative Divisions]], I don't have the time right now to double check the spellings and make sure that they are the official names, and I was wondering could keep an eye on this. Thanks!

[[User:Abstrakt|Abstrakt]] 16:45, 6 September 2006 (UTC)



==Gin People vs Vietnamese, Hoa vs Chinese==

Should [[Hoa]] = [[Han Chinese]]? [[Gin people]] and [[Vietnamese]] should be separeated! I you says that Gin people is 100% = Vietnamese, I think Hoa is 100% = [[Han Chinese]] !!! [[Hoa]] should be redirected to [[Han Chinese]]? [[User:202.64.87.162|202.64.87.162]] 06:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

: In this case an important criterion is how Gin and Hoa people feel themselves, how they see their identity. I guess most Hoa (华) in Vietnam would refer to themselves as Chinese, but I have no idea about national identity among the Gin in China.
: Why do ''you'' think that Gin and Vietnamese should be separated?
: I'm not sure if I understand you, but the comparison with the Hoa does not support your argument at all, because this is not a question that can be solved like an equation in formal logic. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 08:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Seperation between [[Gin people]] and [[Vietnamese]] is necessary, at least, the Gin people of China generally can speak [[Cantonese]], and they are actually Chinese citizen. For NPOV, there exists [[Hoa]] from [[Chinese]], so [[Gin people]] is separated from [[Vietnamese]]. You can remark that [[Gin people]] and [[Vietnamese]] are the same ethnic group. Otherwises, [[Hoa]] should be redirected to [[Chinese]]. [[User:203.218.237.131|203.218.237.131]] 09:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

::: A Chinese government Website writes:
:::: ''The Jing people had their own script which was called Zinan. Created on the basis of the script of the Han people towards the end of the 13th century, it was found in old song books and religious scriptures. Most Jings read and write in the Han script because they have lived with Hans for a long time. They speak the Cantonese dialect.''[http://china.org.cn/english/features/EthnicGroups/136919.htm]
::: "Zinan" is, of course, [[Chữ Nôm]]. There is a contradition in this paragraph. Why should they write Chữ Nôm if they speak Chinese/Cantonese? If they still speak Vietnamese, why don't they use [[Quốc ngữ]] today? And most important: Why does the Chinese government not mention the relationship with the Vietnamese people today?
::: In the 1980s, a book was published about the "Gin language", a recognition as a separate language, definitely not Cantonese:
:::: Ōuyáng Jiàoyà 欧阳觉亚, Chéng Fāng 程方, Yù Cuìróng 喻翠容: '''Jīngyǔ jiǎnzhì''' 京语简志 (Mínzú chūbǎnshè 民族出版社 1984).
::: The Wikipedia article is about an ethnic group. You say that the Gin and the Vietnamese are the same ethnic group, so what's the point? The fact that these people in China have citizenship and speak Cantonese (as a second language, presumably) is not really relevant for their ethnicity, unless - and that's the main point - the Gin see themselves as a separate people, an "ethnic group" that is separate from the Vietnamese. They probably don't, but that question hasn't been answered yet. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

==Blogs==

Hi. Thanks for your edits to the external sources section of the Jung Chang article. Just a note, blogs are not completely prohibited from being used as sources on wikipedia, merely they have to be used carefully. The reason that entry is in there is because it's to source a statement made by an academic about the Mao book. He doesn't have a dedicated website where he can publish the same information - so that's why the site is being used. Thanks, [[User:John Smith's|John Smith&#39;s]] 15:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

: Rudy Rummel ''does'' have a dedicated website.[http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills]
: He has a very strange view of history, e.g. he blames the Chinese Communists for the deaths in the War of Resistance Against Japan—that's blaming the victim. Another political scientist who writes about things he doesn't know. (His rather ridiculous book ''China's Bloody Century'' is mostly cited by himself and never by China specialists.)
: I still think the link to his blog should be removed because its contents is poorly researched, unsourced and has little to do with Zhang Rong. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

== Zhuang ==

Hi,

I saw that you corrected the part about tone-letters in Zhuang. Do you know any more info about this language? The article used to say that it is assimilated by Mandarin and on the way to extinction; I marked it as unsourced, and then someone removed it, but actually it may be true. If you can add something to subject, it will be most helpful. --[[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] 07:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

: I've added a list of books I've read to the article on the [[Zhuang language]]. Having extensively travelled in Guangxi, I also have the impression that Zhuang is on the way to extinction, but at the moment I can't quote any sources that would conform to Wikipedia policies. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 08:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello The list of references is very good. Many talk about the writing system based on Chinese charcters. Therefore the link to [[Zhuang logogram]s is valuable, as it is the only wikipedia article on these. The difference in terminology logogram vs logograph is a little unsightly, if they were changed to match that would read better.

The information put in re tone-letters had two parts to it, firstly that the change in 1986 was from a Cyrillic alphabet to an English or Latin alphabet. For a reference see [[Cyrillic alphabet]], this is definitely correct. The writting system was designed by Russian nad Chinese linguists in the 1950's and so they naturally used a Cyrillic alphabet. Second the change from numbers to letters, exact wording here might be in questionable in the 1957 Cyrillic Zhuang the second to sixth tones are marked by final letters that look like 2,3,4,5 and 6 respectively, the similarity is very close in the 1957 system, these in 1986 were changed to z,j,x,q, and h of which look a little like 2,3,4,5, and 6. z,j,x, and q only represent tones, h can also represent sounds. It is much clearer to talk about the Cyrillic alphabet than about "a [[Latin alphabet]] with some special letters". The comment about tone numbers could be left out as the visual data already shows this.

A lot of work has gone into this page, a link to [[Zhuang logogram]] and a clear mention of the [[Cyrillic alphabet]] would add to it. Added by Johnkn63. Nov 8 10.01 (Chinese time)

PS I have edited this -- however it seems there shouls be a way to post a reply I would be grateful to know how to post replies in the normal way. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Johnkn63|Johnkn63]] ([[User talk:Johnkn63|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Johnkn63|contribs]]) 10:07, 8 November 2006.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> 

:Hi again

:Re the ancient Zhaung dictionary 'contains 4,900 characters and more than 10,000 variants' more accurate would be 'has 4,900 enteries, and contains more than 10,000 different characters in all' (This is the first sentance of the introduction to the dictionary it says 10,700 and 4918.) Using an approximation here is good as neither of these figures is accurate, especially the 10,700 -- there may not even be 10,000 different characters in the dictionary -- unless one adds in the characters included in the example sentances but not in the entries themselves. 
:Re the article itself it would be good if we could agree on a wording that we are both happy with, it would not be productive for things to be changed back and forth again and again. I am more than happy to drop the comment about the use numbers for tones.
::(1) Even a small change from 'Zhuang had been written with [[logogram |logographs ]]' to 'Zhuang has been written with [[Zhuang logogram | logographs]]'  would be clearer, the sawndip writing system was never official and continues to be used to this day in much the way it always was and the link is more relevant. Or it could be worded so that links to both exist  'Zhuang has been written with [[logogram | logographs]], sometimes called [[Zhuang logogram | sawndip]]'.
::(2) Describing the 1957 as special letters is not very exact it is a wikipedia policy to be as exact as possible, most of the 'special letters' are Cyrillic letters, and two of the vowels are common ipa symbols.  
:There is enough to say on the Zhuang language to make several pages, there is not much wikipedia material on Zhuang, a collective effort to improve this is best.
:Yours sincerely [[User:Johnkn63|Johnkn63]] 10:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

:: You wrote: "For a reference see Cyrillic alphabet, this is definitely correct. The writting system was designed by Russian nad Chinese linguists in the 1950's and so they naturally used a Cyrillic alphabet."
:: Sorry, this is not correct. Have a look at the [[Zhuang language#Writing systems|section on writing systems]] in the article on the Zhuang language: The 1957 Zhuang alphabet consists of 18 Latin letters (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, k, l, m, n, o, r, s, v and y) plus 10 non-Latin letters. Of the non-Latin letters, ƽ is definitely not Cyrillic; it marks the 5th tone and looks like a number 5. The letters з, ч and ƅ look like Cyrillic letters, but don't have their sound values; they mark the 3rd, 4th and 6th tones and also look a bit like numbers 3, 4 and 6. The letter ƨ is not Cyrillic; it marks the 2nd tone and could actually be derived from a number 2. The letter ƌ is not cyrillic either. The letter ƃ looks a bit like the cyrillic Ƃ, but it seems more logic that ƃ was derived from b and ƌ from d. The letters ə and ŋ look like [[International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA]] letters; both have also been used in both Latin and Cyrillic orthographies of many languages in the Soviet Union, as well as in the Latin orthographies of some minority languages—in Xinjiang and elsewhere—in China. The letter ɯ looks a bit like the Cyrillic ш, but it doesn't have it's sound value.
:: Conclusion: It is a Latin alphabet with 10 extra letters; 5 of them are derived from numbers, 3 from Latin letters and 2 from some phonetic alphabet. Five of the extra letters look a bit like Cyrillic letters, but not a single one has the sound value of the Cyrillic letter it looks like. (The result actually reminds me of the [[African reference alphabet]] which was created much later, and other attempts to create new written languages.)
:: I agree that we have to be precise; you should check your sources once more. I really recommend the book by Zhou Minglang. (If you happen to be in Beijing, you can find it in the National Library.)
:: Maybe this discussion should be continued at the [[talk:Zhuang language|talk page]] of the article in question. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
::: I moved it there. --[[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] 08:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

== Rangeblock ==

Wikipedia does not permit the use of open proxies. I would suggest that you read [[Wikipedia:Advice to users using Tor to bypass the Great Firewall]].—[[User:Ryulong|<span style="color:blue;">Ryūlóng</span>]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|<span style="color:gold;">竜龍</span>]]) 08:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

: I know, I know, it's "not permitted". I've read that page months ago. It doesn't help. It doesn't work. I don't know what to do. On another language version of Wikipedia, I was advised to get a proxy server abroad. I have no idea how to do that. It's absolutely ridiculous that all users of China are banned by this collusion of Wikipedia with Chinese censorship. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

==[[Pochonbo Electronic Ensemble]]==
I have added a "{{[[Template:prod|prod]]}}" template to the article [[Pochonbo Electronic Ensemble]], suggesting that it be deleted according to the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion]] process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "[[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not|What Wikipedia is not]]" and [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|Wikipedia's deletion policy]]).  You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the <code><nowiki>{{dated prod}}</nowiki></code> notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on [[Talk:Pochonbo Electronic Ensemble|its talk page]]. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the [[WP:PROD|proposed deletion process]], the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion criteria]] or it can be sent to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|Articles for Deletion]], where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. [[User:RJASE1|RJASE1]] [[User talk:RJASE1| <sup>Talk</sup> ]] 07:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

== [[WT:Tibetan naming conventions]] ==

Is it okay with you if I just remove Kt66's attacks on your character from that page, along with the responses? Let's just forget about this whole thing.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 17:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

: Actually I don't think they should just be removed and forgotten, because they illustrate the position and arguments of Michael Jäckel / "Tenzin Paljor" / "Losang Tashi" / [[user:Kt66|Kt66]] / [[de:user:Waschi|Waschi]] very well.
: "It seems that I'm wrong here" and "please be cautious with my comments" aren't exactly an apology. He could have deleted the attack himself, but he obviously wants it to be read. Only when threatened with a block on the German Wikipedia, he apologised profusely. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

::Fair enough. That's your prerogative.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 16:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

==Why do you delete the connection to tibet and demographic parts of South Tibet?==

I am sure they are well referenced.--[[User:Ksyrie|Ksyrie]] 08:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

: Then please re-insert them and quote the sources. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

::I have added the references.--[[User:Ksyrie|Ksyrie]] 03:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I was going to copy edit it today. I should have done it staright away really. [[User:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| <span style="color:darkblue;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Purple;">'''"Expecting you"'''</span> ]][[Special:Contributions/Ernst_Stavro_Blofeld|<span style="font-size:x-small; color:Grey;">'''Contribs'''</span>]]</sup> 09:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

: Ksyrie, you haven't provided any proper sources on [[South Tibet]] so far. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

:: Go provide the sources if you think they need a source. Or tag the offending paragraph with a "cite source" tag. Don't delete the whole thing. --[[User:121.6.184.26|121.6.184.26]] 09:00, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

::: [[User:121.6.184.26|121.6.184.26]], have a look at the discussion about that article. The matter is a bit more complex than you might assume. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 06:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

== Recent Reverts ==

Does an edit by an IP address deserve to be deleted under the reason "it is anonymous"? Talk about being from China and you don't even know a famous folk song? Anyway, here is a [http://music.guqu.net/hezou/244.html link], go translate it yourself. Isn't your "job" very easy? Assume an unreferenced edit is a fake and delete it. Can't you go find a source if you are so particular about sources? If everything on Wikipedia needs to have a source, how many articles will there be left? And if you do revert it back with another similar nonsense reason, I shall have to resort to other measures. Please do not assume that a person using an IP address to edit does not know how Wikipedia works and can be bullied easily. Thank you. --[[User:121.6.184.26|121.6.184.26]] 08:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

: Are you threatening me?
: Any user should be able to edit articles and remain anonymous, if they wish. It only makes discussions a bit complicated. I only delete unsourced material if I doubt the contents.
: It's not ''me'' who's "so particular about sources". It's the Wikipedia rules about [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiability]]: ''"The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article."'' You're right, there's much room for improvement on Wikipedia and a lot of junk will probably have to be deleted.
: And about the song and the [[Yao people]] article: Thanks for the link, but must say I'm not a fan of Han-Chinese theme-park versions of minority cultures. That reminds me of what [[Edward Said]] writes about [[orientalism]] and [[exoticism]]. The link doesn't say anything like ''"The Yao people have a famous folk song entitled ..."'', and I just saw that another user ([[user:Nposs|Nposs]]) has deleted that blurb once again. Maybe you should also read the Wikipedia rules about [[WP:NOR|original research]].
: As you're editing without being logged in, I can't tell if you're an experienced user or totally new to Wikipedia. If you're new here, I want to stress that everyone is welcome and I din't intend to offend you. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 06:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I dont know what your problem is but you deleted my section of an article without giving any reason. I want the whole article deleted because you gave no sourcing either. So please explain why you deleted my section on the article or I am going to request that the article is deleted. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:71.253.133.35|71.253.133.35]] ([[User talk:71.253.133.35|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.253.133.35|contribs]]) 08:51, 10 June 2007</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

: By the way, there's no chance of it being deleted, so it doesn't really make much difference whether you request that or not.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 01:51, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

:: [[User:71.253.133.35|71.253.133.35]]/[[User:Mujkiller|Mujkiller]], I guess you're referring to the article on [[Jincheng]],<sup>[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jincheng&curid=1894887&diff=137152117&oldid=136775126]</sup> not the one on the [[Yao people]]. I'm sorry. My computer crashed while I was posting a reply to the talk page. Don't be angry. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

== Tibetan-Chinese Box ==
While on the one hand I appreciate the lovely box that has appeard on the Songtsän Gampo page, I do not see why his name is given also in Chinese, and a pinyin transliteration of it. Chinese articles do not give the names of all figures in Tibetan. Nor do articles about English monarchs include their names transliterated into Chinese. To me this practice has a political implication, by somehow claiming the names of Tibetan historical figures as Chinese. I would perfer if the box were reformatted to exclude the essencially irrelavent Chinese information. [[User:Tibetologist|Tibetologist]] 22:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

: It is not irrelevant, as Tibet today is a part of China and a lot of literature on Tibet is published in Chinese. “Traditional” Tibetology in the west tends to ignore that, which is very problematic (see for example Tsering Shakya, ''The Development of Modern Tibetan Studies''. In: Robert Barnett (ed.), ''Resistance and Reform in Tibet'', Bloomington, University of Indiana Press 1994, {{ISBN|0253311314}}, pp. 1–14). —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Of course I agree that today Tibet is a part of China, and that much of Western tibetology ignores Chinese scholarship to its detriment (as it does Japanese scholarship). But German, French, and Japanese (to a lesser extent Italian) are also important languages in which Tibetology is done. But more importantly I don't see how either the current political status of Tibet, nor which languages Tibetology is done in are relevant. 

:: Srong brtsan sgam po was a Tibetan emperor, he did not have a Chinese name, or a French name, or a Germany name, and it is misleading to present things as if he did. Also, the imperial history of Tibet is no more Chinese history than it is Arab, Turk, Tuyuhun, Nanzhao, Tangut, Zhangzhung or Nepalese history (the other nations Tibet had political relationships with). Should we perhaps also list how his name is recorded in the Arab sources? [[User:Tibetologist|Tibetologist]] 17:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I guess you're just being polemic when you suggest that king Songzain Gambos relations with the Tang were the same as with the Arabs. <s>(Should the article on [[Pitikwahanapiwiyin|ᐱᑎᐧᑲᐦᐊᓇᐱᐧᐃᔨᓐ]] not mention that he was also known as “Poundmaker”?)</s> —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::: No, I was not beng polemic, and I am not even sure what you mean. The spu rgyal Tibetan empire fought wars and intermarried with most of its neighbors. I do not see that the Chinese had any special status in this regard. Have you read Christopher Beckwith's book ''The Tibetan Empire in Central Asia''. It discusses the Tibetan empire's relationship with the Turgis, Turks, Arabs, and Chinese at great length. In fact on the contrary I believe that a retrospective attempt to make Old Tibetan history a part of Chinese history rather than general Asian history is politically rather iffy. [[User:Tibetologist|Tibetologist]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

== [[Namtso]] ==

I noticed that you had moved this page a while ago in accordance, in part, with the Tibetan naming conventions. I think it's inappropriate for you to be moving things because of that page, because no such conventions have ever been accepted. So, I moved it back.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 07:08, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== Readding prod tags. ==

Please see the policy on prod tags. ''If any user objects''' - I clearly objected - ''then the article may be taken to Articles for Deletion to be discussed.'' take it to AfD. Please do not continually readd prod tags, as it is edit warring, and looks like vandalism --'''[[User talk:L (usurped)|L]]'''<small>[[User:L (usurped)|u]][[Special:Contributions/Lucid|c]][[User:L (usurped)/contribs|id]]</small> 08:31, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

: Stupid policy, useless tag. But thanks for your advice! There are still many things about Wikipedia I don't understand. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 09:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== hello... and {{tl|Tibetan-Chinese-box}} ==

HI Babelfisch, nice to meet you. :-) Unfortunately I'm currently studying for '''[[Candidate of Philosophy|prelims]]'''. I may be able to help with '''{{tl|Tibetan-Chinese-box}}''' in a week or two, but you may be done by then... later! -- [[User:Ling.Nut|Ling.Nut]] 19:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

: Good luck! —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Good work but do we have to have that huge box? [[Tashilhunpo]] looks awkward now  [[User:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| <span style="color:darkblue;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Purple">'''"Expecting you?"'''</font></font> ]][[Special:Contributions/Ernst_Stavro_Blofeld|<font size="-4"><span style="color:Grey;">'''Contribs'''</span></font>]]</sup> 15:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

: The alternative would be to start the article like this:
:* '''Tashilhunpo''' ([[Tibetan Pinyin|officially]]: '''Zhaxilhünbo''', [[Tibetan alphabet|Tibetan]]: བཀྲ་ཤིས་ལྷུན་པོ་, [[Wylie transliteration]]: ''bkra shis lhun po'', pronunciation in [[International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA]]: [ʈʂaɕiɬympɔ], [[THDL Simplified Phonetic Transcription|THDL transcription]]: ''Trashilhünpo''; [[Chinese language|Chinese]]: 扎什倫布寺 / 扎什伦布寺, [[Pinyin]]: ''Zhāshílúnbù Sì''; also spelled ''Tashilhünpo'' and ''Tashilhümpo''), built in 1447, is a historic and culturally important monastery in Shigatse ...
: I think the box does a very good job to avoid that.
: The problem in that article is not the name box, but the two images below the box – they should be moved. The picture of the monks could actually be removed from the article, as it's unspecific and irrelevant. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== Open proxies ==

Hardblocking [[Wikipedia:No open proxies|open proxies]] has been downgraded from a [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|valid policy]] to a [[:Category:Wikipedia proposals|proposal]], but many administrators continue to hardblock proxies. I hope the blocks on the proxies below will be converted into softblocks, so legitimate registered users in China and elsewhere can use them to contribute to Wikipedia.

{{unblock-auto reviewed|66.36.230.163|{{tl|blocked proxy}}|Zzuuzz|decline=Open proxies are used for vandalism and sockpuppeteering.  Sorry, I will not be converting these to soft blocks.  Best workable solution so far seems to be the XFF header.  — [[User:Yamla|Yamla]] 14:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)}}
{{unblock-auto reviewed|1=12.158.190.38|2={{tl|blocked proxy}}|3=Wimt|decline=Please enable XFF and see below message. Kylu.}}
{{unblock-auto reviewed|1=64.34.166.94|2={{tl|blocked proxy}}|3=ST47|decline=Please enable XFF and see below message. Kylu.}}
{{unblock-auto reviewed|1=208.112.67.89|2={{tl|openproxy}}|3=MichaelBillington|decline=Please enable XFF and see below message. Kylu.}}
{{unblock-auto reviewed|1=12.158.190.219|2={{tl|blocked proxy}}|3=Zzuuzz|decline=Please enable XFF and see below message. Kylu.}}
My understanding is that there's also a foundation-level policy in place; regardless, I personally am not likely to take action in these cases until these policies are clarified and/or modified and more finalized. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 03:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

: OK, so you don't care. Thanks. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

::Obviously! There's no other possible conclusion. Please read up on things before throwing around such accusations, thanks. If you'd bothered to check your facts, I've routinely favored finding workable solutions to this problem for quite some time, now. If you want my help, don't be an asshole about it. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 03:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

::: Sorry (not for "being an asshole", though). Your comment didn't sound very helpful. Where can I read up and check my facts? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 07:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
::::If memory serves, I've posted in public mailing lists and admin noticeboards trying to seek resolution on the matter. Many of these discussions have been on IRC; public records of that are harder to come by. In short, I would like to see the policy changed (probably a technical solution, rather), but I plan on following the policy while it's in place. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 09:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Or, more recently, [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-August/079230.html this]. In any case, apologies for my poor reaction, earlier. That was uncalled for, on my part. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 10:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I've reinserted the unblock-auto tags that were removed without being addressed individually. It should be clear which proxies blocked and why, and if there had been any vandalism.

How can preemptive hardblocking to prevent ''potential'' sockpuppeteering and ''potential'' vandalism override the second [[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Foundation_issues|foundation issue]] of the project, especially when there is no policy that says proxies must be hardblocked and can't be just softblocked? There's not even a consensus among administrators on that issue.

[[User:Yamla|Yamla]], I'm very glad you've suggested an alternative, I've heard this for the first time. Unfortunately, I don't understand, I'm not as computer literate as most administrators. I've many times asked administrators for alternatives to proxies, but this is actually the first time I hear that there seems to be an alternative. But what is an XFF header and how can I use it to edit articles, what do I have to do? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 05:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:Open proxies do not forward [[X-Forwarded-For]] headers, otherwise they'd reveal the IP address of the original user and thus defeating the whole point of them. There is talk of a creating a ipblock-exempt list which would allow trusted users to bypass ALL IP blocks including hard ones, but until that's implemented, I along with a whole lot of [[CAT:RFU]] patrollers will refuse to softblock any open proxies at this time. The sockpuppetry problem is just too large to reopen the floodgates just yet. -- <small><span style="border: 1px solid">[[User:Netsnipe|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:#003333"> &nbsp;Netsnipe&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:Netsnipe|<span style="background-color:#003333; color:White">&nbsp;►&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 05:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:: So actually isn't a solution that has to do with XFF headers? [[User:Yamla|Yamla]]?
:: And there is a group of vigilante administrators who block legitimate users without any policy to justify that? I really don't understand. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 06:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:::[[WP:NOP]] was considered policy up until mid-July before it was downgraded to a proposed policy '''without''' wide community consensus. Jimbo has voiced concerns that [[TOR]] anonymous access should become a reality one day. And please don't call us vigilantes -- you haven't dealt with the vandal bots and the sockpuppeteers that come in through open proxies. I don't like the fact that we're essentially blocking off editors (but not readers) from China and parts of the Middle East via this policy, but there simply is no other feasible solution to stop Wikipedia from being overrun in the short term. If you want the above open proxies unblocked, take it to [[WP:AN]] or [[WP:VP]], but please don't create a backlog in [[CAT:RFU]] just to make a point. -- <small><span style="border: 1px solid">[[User:Netsnipe|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:#003333"> &nbsp;Netsnipe&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:Netsnipe|<span style="background-color:#003333; color:White">&nbsp;►&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 06:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:::: I've tried the ''Administrators' noticeboard'' before and it was useless. Actually, there's a notice that says that it is not the place for issues like this one: ''“If you are blocked, please contact the blocking admin via email.”'' I don't think that the ''Village pump'' is the right place for this issue either.
:::: I'm following the steps suggested in the [[MediaWiki:Blockedtext|blocking notice]] I've seen:
:::: I first asked the administrators who blocked me to lift the block. In one case, that was denied. In several other cases, I got no reply, so I took the [[MediaWiki:Blockedtext#IP blocked?|next step]] as suggested by the blocking message:
::::*''“Unfortunately, each [[IP address]] on the Internet does not necessarily map directly to a single person depending upon one's [[Internet service provider]]. If your block log (check via [[{{ns:Special}}:Mycontributions|my contributions]]) does not list any current blocks, then your IP address or range has been "hard blocked" due to abuse either by the previous person who was [[Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol|allocated]] or [[Network address translation|sharing]] your IP address. Please copy-paste the following text to the '''bottom''' of [[{{ns:Special}}:Mytalk|your user talk page]]. <tt>{&#123;unblock-auto|1=$3|2=<nowiki>$2</nowiki>|3=$1&#125;}</tt>”''
:::: I ask for these blocks to be lifted, and I want this to be transparent. I don't think it should be too hard for the administrators who took time to block me, or for any other administrator, to follow the instructions on the template:
::::*''“Replace this template with one of the following as notification. ...”''
:::: Or is that really too much to ask for? If you think I'm just “collateral damage”, I guess it is. You're effectively saying: “You're a legitimate user, you've been blocked, there's no solution, but shut up.” I find that hard to accept. This is not just about “making a point”, this is about banning all Wikipedia users from China. I hope you understand that. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 07:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::Babelfisch, I for one would absolutely ''love'' to unblock or find another solution so that editors from China are free to edit without these problems but until there is a foundation decree or community support for either ipblock-exempt or another solution, there is nothing we can do. Please, you seem to think that we're declining these autoblock unblock requests because we don't agree with you or don't care but that isn't the case at all. Most of us care very much about this TOR problem, especially for those who have no choice but to use it, such as those trying to edit from China. I think you would do better lobbying the foundation to find a solution such as ipblock-exempt than continually placing all these unblock requests. '''[[User talk:Sarah|Sarah]]''' 07:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::: [[User talk:Sarah|Sarah]], I’ve tried that: [[Wikipedia talk:Blocking policy/Archive 10# Softblock for Tor proxies here]], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:No_open_proxies&oldid=149110449 here] and also at the German Wikipedia. So many of the replies were dismissive, hostile and bureaucratic, I was very surprised about the attitude of those administrators. I thought the user community of a country like China would be regarded as quite important for the project, but I after those discussions, I think I was wrong.
:::::: These are some of the basic principles of Wikipedia:
::::::*"However those who edit in good faith, show civility, seek consensus, and work towards the goal of creating a great encyclopedia should find a welcoming environment." ([[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines]], third paragraph)
::::::*"Assume good faith." ([[Wikipedia:Assume good faith]])
::::::*"There are only 5 actual rules on Wikipedia: neutral point of view, a free license, the wiki process, '''the ability of anyone to edit''', and the ultimate authority of Jimbo and the board on process matters." ([[Wikipedia:Simplified Ruleset]], my emphasis.)
::::::*"Newcomers are always to be welcomed. [...] ‘''You'' can edit this page right now’ is a core guiding check on everything that we do. We must respect this principle as sacred." ([[User:Jimbo Wales/Statement of principles]])
:::::: It seems these principles don’t really count for everyone. If you're not English-speaking, if you live in the Third World ... “collateral damage”.
:::::: I just want to continue to contribute to articles, discussing this issue with administrators like [[user:Centrx|Centrx]] or [[user:Jayjg|Jayjg]] seems rather pointless, and I didn’t start to work with Wikipedia to get lost in exchanges of technical jargon with an inward-looking community that acts so bureaucratic. They remind me of librarians who care more for their books than for their readers.
:::::: When [[User:Yamla|Yamla]] wrote ''“Best workable solution so far seems to be the XFF header,”'' there seemed to be some hope and for a while I thought that when he wrote “solution”, he actually meant a solution. I was wrong, once again. (Wasn’t I? He hasn’t written since then.) This has happened to me too often here.
:::::: I have raised the issue, more than once. I’ll try to continue to contribute. I have other things to do than to lobby technocrats. If the people who effectively run this project think they don’t need users from China, there’s nothing I can do. I wish there were more administrators like you, but at the moment, I’m not very optimistic. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 08:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::: Is it really so difficult to officially decline my request to unblock these IPs? And please don't accuse me of abuse. I'd call [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Babelfisch&&title=User_talk%3ABabelfisch&diff=152474259&oldid=152425381  this] vandalism. I'm only asking you to follow the rules. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

:Requests declined until the proxies have both XFF enabled and verification from our developers that the forwards are acceptable and have been added to our accepted XFF proxy lists. Please leave the unblock requests as-is to assist the developers in this matter. Thank you. <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 02:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

:Addendum: When the XFF headers are enabled on your end, please [[special:emailuser/Kylu|email me]] so I can forward the requests to our developers. Thanks. <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 02:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Thanks, [[User:Kylu|Kylu]]. How do I enable XFF headers with these proxies? Or if there is a list of XFF proxies that were accepted already, how could I use those? I found the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/XFF_project XFF project] and the [http://wikimedia.org/trusted-xff.html Wikimedia Trusted XFF List], but I don't understand what I can do with those. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

:::You will want to check the documentation for your proxy software to determine how to enable XFF. You've found the trusted XFF list, you can try to use one of the proxies there if they'll let you (many proxies only allow users from their own network). You may also want to try to connect to the [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Main_Page Wikimedia Secure Gateway] page instead, as that ''should'' let you bypass national proxies. Please note that, at least the last time I checked, the Secure Gateway used null encryption, so please don't think that it will do any more than bypass your proxies. Thanks. <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 03:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Goto proxydetect.com or any other site that can detect proxies or display your HTTP headers. If there's no X-Forwarded-For field that lists your originating IP address, then we can't whitelist that proxy. -- <small><span style="border: 1px solid">[[User:Netsnipe|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:#003333"> &nbsp;Netsnipe&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:Netsnipe|<span style="background-color:#003333; color:White">&nbsp;►&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 05:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

: I've tried, but I can't get any of the proxies that were blocked to enable XFF. It doesn't seem to be an option.
: The Secure Gateway was blocked by the Chinese government months ago, but I know that many administrators are still not aware of that. And I don't use proxies to protect my anonymity, I use them to bypass the Chinese government's blocking of Wikipedia.
: How can I use any of the the proxies on the list? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 07:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

::In firefox, Tools > Options > Advanced (top) > Network (tab) > Settings > Manual proxy configuration. Type in the hostname and port of the proxy (typically, try 8080 or 3128).
::Microsoft Internet Explorer has its configuration under Tools > Internet Options > Connections (tab) > LAN settings, click the Use Proxy checkbox and fill in the information.
::I assume you've tried searching for methods others have used in bypassing your government restrictions? <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 14:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

*sigh*. It seems like some of the people advising you here don't know what they're talking about. XFF is a server-side setting. You cannot turn it on yourself. It has to be done by the ISP running it and most ISPs will NOT let people outside their networks to use their proxies or else they would be operating an open proxy themselves and risk being blacklisted by [[DNSBL]]s and us in turn. Open proxies are blocked precisely because it defeats our IP address based blocking system and if we cannot identify the originating IP address of spammers and vandals, we can't hold anyone accountable to their ISPs. -- <small><span style="border: 1px solid">[[User:Netsnipe|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:#003333"> &nbsp;Netsnipe&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:Netsnipe|<span style="background-color:#003333; color:White">&nbsp;►&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 17:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

:Netsnipe: Until he started asking about how to use proxies, I thought he was requesting as part of the people who were administering the proxies. :D Whoops. <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 19:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kylu|Kylu]], yes, of course I'm constantly searching for methods used by other people. There are two: webproxies, [[TOR]]/[[Privoxy]]/[[Vidalia]] and tools like [[Freegate]], [[Garden Networks]], [[Ultrasurf]] and [[Dynapass]]. All of them are basically "open proxies", as far as I understand.
:: I guess it would be easier if I was an ISP myself, but I am not. So the XFF thing won't help me at all. What else can I do? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

:::I hate to say this, Babelfisch, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot you ''can'' do until you find a method of bypassing the Chinese government's blocks. Reading our article [[Blocking of Wikipedia in mainland China]], it appears the software [[Psiphon]] may allow editors to work on Wikipedia from China. Maybe you could look into that? Otherwise, basically, you have the entire Chinese government ready to keep you from editing, and smarter people than me have tried (and failed) to come up with ways to let you despite them. Sorry. :( <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 19:43, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Oh, ah, if you don't mind... I've noticed that you've got some redlinks in that last paragraph of yours. If you can find some way to edit, think you'd mind seeing if they'd make good articles? Thanks. :) <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 19:47, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

::::: Great. You block me, but you ask me to contribute?
::::: You've succeeded: At the moment, the only page I can edit on the English Wikipedia is this one. (Fortunately, administrators at other language versions of Wikipedia are less zealous and routinely convert hardblocks into softblocks.)
::::: To use Psiphon, you need a trusted friend in another country who lets all your Internet traffic pass through his or her computer, which acts as a server, and it only makes sense if that computer is turned on constantly. The "trusted" computer also logs all the surfing history.
::::: I don't think that's such a great idea, even if it's just for Wikipedia, and I don't know anyone who would volunteer to provide a server. Would you? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 08:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

====Arbitrary section break====
Still totally blocked.

I wrote to several administrators on the Chinese Wikipedia; two replied ([[:zh:user:Shizhao|Shizhao]] and [[:zh:user:Xyb|Xyb]]) and both advised to use Tor, which contradicts what many administrators on the English Wikipedia think.

What do you think? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 07:14, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

:The problem here is that [[WP:OP|WikiProject Open Proxies]] is enforcing the "no proxy server" ban on Wikipedia, since the vast majority of the time they're only used for vandalism. The IP you'd mentioned, though, does not seem to be blocked against editing, so it may just be an autoblock of some sort affecting you. Unfortunately, they limit admins' abilities to see autoblocks (it'd require checkuser, which I don't have) to determine what's stopping you. I've been pestering some of our technical people and one of the Board of Directors to give you some sort of ability to edit. I don't quite have anything yet, sorry. :( <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 09:18, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:I came up with a really stupid idea just now, I'm going to toss it around and see who else thinks it dumb. If it work, I'll tell ya. <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 09:22, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Blocked once again. Was there actually any evidence for sockpuppeteering from this proxy, or am I just “collateral damage” of a preemptive hardblock? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 05:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
<!-- {{unblock-auto|1=12.158.191.78|2={{tl|blocked proxy}}|3=ST47}} ... Babelfisch, I'm trying to get this problem resolved. It's just...not yet resolved. :( -->

::[[User_talk:Kylu#A_possible_solution_to_the_Great_Firewall_of_China]] led someone to point me to [[User_talk:Jimbo_wales#Please_to_do_the_bug_9862]].
::I'm pestering people to find a way to let our editors edit. I really am sorry for the inconvenience. :( <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 06:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

::: The reaction [[User_talk:Jimbo_wales#Please_to_do_the_bug_9862|here]] is ... underwhelming.
::: And once again, this issue is moved into an [[User talk:Kylu/bot-archive#A possible solution to the Great Firewall of China|archive]] before it is solved. (Or is that comment by [[User:WJBscribe|WJBscribe]] actually a solution? I don't understand it.)
::: I'm still totally blocked. It's been six days now. Any news? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::: Found another proxy after being totally blocked for twelve days, but this is just another temporary solution, because it's just a matter of time when that proxy will also be blocked.
::: No news about a sustainable solution? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 06:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::: The workaround worked for a day or two, but now I'm totally blocked again.
::: No reactions above, so I'm asking for these hardblocks to be converted into  softblocks. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 07:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
{{unblock-auto reviewed|12.158.191.78|{{tl|blocked proxy}}|ST47|decline=According to [[WP:NOP]], open or anonymising proxies may be blocked from editing for any period at any time. Please ask the blocking admins per e-mail for any possible softblock conversion of these ranges. [[User:Sandstein|Sandstein]] 11:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)}}
{{unblock-auto reviewed|69.64.84.92|{{tl|blocked proxy}}|Shadow1|decline=According to [[WP:NOP]], open or anonymising proxies may be blocked from editing for any period at any time. Please ask the blocking admins per e-mail for any possible softblock conversion of these ranges. [[User:Sandstein|Sandstein]] 11:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)}} 
You're all very quick to block me and to decline my requests. At least you could use the appropriate template. I want this documented properly.

[[User:Sandstein|Sandstein]], I hope you don't only decline these requests but have a look at the relevant discussions (see links above).

<s>I'd also bring to your attention that [[WP:NOP]] has been downgraded from a policy to a proposal, and that</s> this <s>proposal</s>policy effectively blocks all users from China. Were you aware of that?

You can of course simply ignore me, because I'm from China, and because I'm blocked, and because I can't participate in the relevant discussions myself.

If you are actually one of the few administrators who actually look for a solution of this problem, please accept my apologies. Haven't heard from [[user:Yamla|Yamla]], [[user:Luna Santin|Luna Santin]], [[user:Netsnipe|Netsnipe]] and [[user:Sarah|Sarah]] for a while. [[user:Kylu|Kylu]] at least answered an e-mail, saying that he/she has been pestering IRC and development people, but saw no responses. <s>But why should anyone care? It's just China (and parts of the Arab world). The "[[WP:5P|Five Pillars]]" are obviously only for residents of the Western world, not for people who live somewhere else and are perfect "collateral damage".</s> I'm getting a bit cynical. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 01:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I just saw that [[WP:NOP]] has been elevated to the status of a policy again. I didn't have a say in that – I'm blocked. I guess that's it. However, the people who wrote that the Chinese government "sporadically attempts" to block Wikipedia obviously don't know what they're talking about, and then they direct users in China to "[[WP:TOR|advice to users using anonymizing proxies to bypass the Great Firewall]]", which is totally useless. It says:
* "Tor proxies can sometimes be softblocked so logged-in account users can edit via a Tor connection. If you find an IP address that has this problem, make the most of it while you can."
[[WP:TOR]] also encourages users from China to "give feedback on the talk page" on the HTTPS connections (which haven't been working for months, but "might become accessible again", which is pure speculation). Giving feedback on the talk page is of course impossible for users that are blocked. Well, thanks. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I've sent an e-mail to [[user:Shadow1|Shadow1]] who blocked this IP (69.64.84.92) to ask for a softblock.

And I just found out that I can't edit my own user page, even when I'm logged in. "You will <u>usually</u> still be able to edit your user and talk pages," it says – I'm not. Any ideas why that is the case? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
:Perhaps it's due to the hardblock. In case any, I'm currently attempting to help Babelfisch with this problem; hopefully I can find a solution that is agreeable for all. [[User:Shadow1|<span style="color:olive;">Shadow1</span>]] [[User talk:Shadow1|(talk)]] 00:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
::If a user is blocked, the only thing they can edit is their own user talkpage. The message should be corrected, I'll see if I can find it. The only case where the user talkpage isn't editable is when they've protected it (due to unblock spamming, usually). I've talked to some people about the ipblock-exempt thing, and ... quite frankly, I don't see any good solutions. If you can find a private proxy outside China that you can get access to, I think that'd be your best bet. Ultimately, leaving open proxies unblocked simply gets us users who abuse them. The other solution is to get China to stop censoring internet access... ah, good luck with that though. Perhaps another user (with a unix-based home machine?) could set up a password-protected proxy for you? <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 07:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

:::I have a working server set up to do exactly this, but Babelfisch isn't responding to my emails about it. [[User:Shadow1|<span style="color:olive;">Shadow1</span>]] [[User talk:Shadow1|(talk)]] 21:44, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

:::: I was travelling and then had technical problems. Many thanks for your efforts! I've seen the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject on closed proxies|WikiProject on closed proxies]]. I wonder if that will be a solution for all users in China. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

==Tibet==
Good work - you article is better than mine and I'm glad you're using my district templates I created. I started that article from a book from the 1980s and in the past I noticed some of the transliterations differ to the known names. Yes a merge will be fine  to yours if you're certain this is the name - but if there is any info not in yours please intergrate it. Also are you interested in helping add all the towns and villages in Tibet. Now we have a wikimap from the coordinates me can have a Tibetan map drawn up in no time [[User:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;color:#fef;background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| <small style="color:Navy">'''"Talk"?'''</small> ]]</sup> 09:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be moved to Changzug '''Monastery''' though ?  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ernst Stavro Blofeld|Ernst Stavro Blofeld]] ([[User talk:Ernst Stavro Blofeld|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ernst Stavro Blofeld|contribs]]) 09:55, August 30, 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

: Can't do anything at the moment, I'm totally blocked again. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 05:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
: Which book did you use for your [[Changzhu Temple]] article? Does all the information come from that source? It would be great if you could give a detailed reference. I'm reluctant to add information to the new [[Changzhug]] article unless I can attribute it to proper sources. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 05:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I used a passport books guide published 1985 by Shangri-La-Press. Yes I aim to start all the towns and villages in Tibet but don't think falling "grain" is the only source that will be used in the end. It is fine to start with to provide basic physicla characteristics but I will now also use a MSN encarta source . I am also mentioning nearby villages so articles link together and indeed ar enot orphaned. Hopefully things can develop and the correct names can be written in and they can be expanded. I'd also like to know which counties these villages are in so the villages in each county can go in a naviagation box. I'd very much appreciate several of us working togethr on this - I very much admire yours and Nat Krauses ability with the Tibetan and Chinese languages. [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 12:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

: I've copied your article on “Changzhu” to the talk page of [[Changzhug]].
: ''Fallingrain.com'' is not a good source, they don't even get the names right. Sorry, but it doesn't make sense this way.
: On the proposed template, see [[Template talk:Infobox Tibetan Settlement#Questions|here]].—[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

You don't think much of me do you!!! Please see [[Deleg]] and [[Jaggang]]. I have sorted the template with the infobox people and think I've done a damn good job of it too. The contours are in the info box settlement now for you to add the Tibetan and Chinese script. See [[Deleg]] for how its done cheers[[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 18:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

: The box looks very good, indeed, but I think it shouldn't say "Tibetan transcription(s)" and "Chinese transcription(s)", when the items below actually include the normal names in those languages. I've looked at the source text to see if you've built a new template and discovered that the box consists of several templates. I'm not good with templates, and I don't know how to technically solve this problem.
: And I can't add anything to any article (or template), I'm blocked. Fortunately, administrators on the German Wikipedia are less zealous and routinely convert hardblocks into softblocks, so that registered users can continue to contribute, so I'm continuing to work there, see for example [[:de:Lhari]], [[:de:Biru]], [[:de:Nyainrong]], [[:de:Amdo (Nagqu)]], [[:de:Xainsa]], [[:de:Sog (Kreis)]], [[:de:Baingoin]], [[:de:Baqên]], [[:de:Nyima]] and [[:de:Shuanghu]]. Unfortunately, I can't even add interwiki links to those in the English Wikipedia. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 08:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a "reliable" source and indeed know which counties they are all in please let me know [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 18:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

: As far as I know, here are no reliable sources in English. In Chinese and Tibetan, there are many, both books and websites. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 07:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

And yes they do mostly get the names correct and coordinates and locations are correct as verified by the MSN encarta maps also. I am using the [[List of towns and villages in Tibet]] list to go by which has too many anglicanized spellings of places. [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 18:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

: Encarta isn't a very good source, either. Where did they get their maps from? How can you check if the names are correct? I'm not convinced.
: I can't do anything at the moment, because I've been totally blocked again (see above). —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 07:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Mainland china blocked from editing wikipedia. this is terrible and quite honestly grossly contrary to the principles of the "free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" . I know many people often vandalise for political reasond Surely you have done anything bad personally? This ridiculous if true China has 1/6 of the world population. We need your knowledge and edits for transcriptions as much as possible. I'm going to ask to have you unblocked  [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 13:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

: Many thanks. To change the policy to block users from China would need persistent lobbying, which they can't do themselves because they are blocked, so someone else would have to lobby on their behalf, and the interest is absolutely minimal. I've almost completely lost hope. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

MSN encarta maps have all the correct names. It is to be trusted unlike falling rain which I can't use solely [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 13:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

: Oy, I looked at [http://encarta.msn.com/mapof_8088651/Jaggang.html] and discovered that some of the names are dodgy on the Encarta map (like “Pa-li-chia-ssu”) and some you don't copy correctly (“[[Demqog]]” for ''Dêmqog'' བདེ་མཆོག, “[[Kuba, Tibet]]” for ''Küba'' ཁུལ་པ, etc.), in some cases you've created stubs about places that have articles already ([[Bangong Co]] vs [[Pangong Tso]], “[[Medog]]” vs [[Mêdog County|Mêdog]], [[Samyai]] vs [[Samye]], “[[Lhunze]]” vs [[Lhünzê County|Lhünzê]], [[Samyai]] vs [[Samye]] etc.), and in some cases you've created two stubs for the same place (“[[Yiong]]” and “[[Yiong Nongchang]]”; there’s only one place, which should be spelled ''Yi’ong'' ཡིད་འོང, ''nongchang'' just means “farm” in Chinese, and there's also a river called ''Yi’ong Zangbo'' ཡིད་འོང་གཙང་པོ), and of course you’ve created many articles with ''fallingrain.com'' as the only source, where many of the names are wrong ([[Xiayanjingxiang]] for Xia Yanjing / Calhomai ཚྭ་ལྷོ་སྨད, and [[Wenquan]] is probably just the Chinese word for “hot spring”, etc.) ... These are the results of your approach, and this is why I don't think it makes sense. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 02:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC):

Well you're the Chinese guy so correct it. I don't know any Chinese or Tibetan naming. I find it highly confusing and to be honest gives me a headache. Today I got around to correcting as you have mentioned above [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 12:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

: I'm not Chinese (but I live in China). —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Look all is wrong here is some multiple names for place swhich need to be asserted as correct -Bangong Co was indeed Pangong Tso. There is nothing wrong with the satellite data about these places and their locations -this is apparently accurate as is the map but it is the naming that needs sorting and you clearly know all about this so please help [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 12:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Please see [[List of towns and villages in Tibet]]. I'v corrected as many names as I can but it'll probably still be wrong. I genuinely believe the google encarta maps and falling rain map and data is accurate based on an exact satellite fix as is the distance between places. The only problem I see is perhaps some inaccuracy in the naming of the places as it is translated and perhaps the populartion figure from falling rain. You forget that there maps were drawn up most likely by Americans using satellite technology -they were not made by Chinese or Tibetan speaking people who are as proficient as you in languages. Now do satellites lie about location etc? [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 14:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

: I've tried to verify about a dozen of the names that sound particularely strange to me, but I couldn't find any information about them.
: Seeing a settlement on a satellite image is one thing, but to identify it is another. Who knows which sources they used to label their maps? To identify place names in Tibet is almost a science in its own right.
: Wikipedia isn't a map, it's an encyclopedia. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Also remember this isn't Chinese wikipedia see [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (China-related articles)]][[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 18:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

: I don't understand. Are you referring to Chinese Wikipedia ''(zh.wikipedia.org)'' or do you mean that the ''Manual of Style'' doesn't apply to these stubs? —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I mean that some of the transliteration boxes in some articles look huge and affect the shape of the article as there is too many different transliterations given. Whilst a basic Chinese or Tibetan name could and in my view should be put in brackets after the name it often doesn't mean anything to many English people . Many people who use English wikipedia don't speak or understanding Chinese lettering and for them a big box at the beginning with over five different Chinese /Tibetan etc meanings makes it seem out of place and too much. I very appreciate one or two translations in brackets but i really don't think the box is the right answer. In places I've seen it take over three quarters of the page. I preferred it before when it was in brackets. 

Wikipedia may not be a map but if this is to be the best reference site on the web basic details and knowledge of these places needs to be covered. Given time there's no reason why the names of these places can't be verified and more (reliable) information to become available on them. The world needs to know that there is more to Tibet than Lhasa or Shigatse. [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 10:12, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

You'll be pleased to know that the List of towns and villages in Tibet article was updated by a user who like yourself lives in mainland china and had an official Tibet Autonomous Regional printout of the correct names for places. Whilst this may differ between CHinese and Tibetan interpretions I believe most of the names on that page are mostly accurate with the correct diaretics. Yesterday I moved about 200 pages to the correct titles. Now if his source (which I couldn't of course obtain) was reliable being from mainland China himself then this is enough for me to be content with it. [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <span style="color:#fef; background:navy;">'''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦'''''</span></span>]]     <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="font-size:x-small; color:Navy;">'''"Talk"?'''</span> ]]</sup> 10:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

: No sources were ever given for that list. What are you talking about? Which user? () But I'm still blocked, there's nothing I can do. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] 03:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

== [[List of websites blocked in the People's Republic of China]] ==

Hey I'm a little concerned over the level of removal on this page. It worries me simply due to the attention that chinese censorship gets. I've read your discussion on the talk page and agree with you. I don't know if deleting the entire thing was the best solution. Do you know of a reliable site that documents what websites get blocked and unblocked?--[[User:Sparkygravity|Sparkygravity]] ([[User talk:Sparkygravity|talk]]) 11:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

: I've replied on the discussion page for that article. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 04:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:IP block exemption]] ==

Perhaps this will end your struggles, and the Chinese Wikipedians will no longer be suppressed with technical limitations such as you've been burdened with.

I have, of course, already granted you this, and thank you for your patience. <b><i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ([[User:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">u</span>]]|[[User talk:Kylu|<span style="color:#FF00FF;">t</span>]]) </i></b> 02:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

: And sorry it took a while. Happy editing! :) [[user:FT2|FT2]]&nbsp;<sup><span style="font-style:italic">([[User_talk:FT2|Talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/FT2|email]])</span></sup> 11:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Thanks! —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 08:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Not exempt any more, it seems. And problems editing certain articles. I don't quite understand all this, and the Wikipedia instructions are very confusing. Requested IP block exemption per e-mail. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 08:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

: Hi Babelfisch, your current IP is not blocked (and has never been), so you shouldn't have any issues. What problems are you seeing? You shouldn't need IP block exemption at the moment.<br>Kind regards, [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#832">Amalthea</span>]] 19:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
: ... I note that you've already been returned to the group of IP block exempted users, so it may be moot, but I'd still be interested in what problems you were having. Cheers, [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#832">Amalthea</span>]] 19:29, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

:: [[User:MuZemike|MuZemike]] (00:36, 3 March 2011) has again granted me an IP block exemption. I wonder what s/he was thinking when s/he revoked it on February 18th without even letting me know. S/he wrote: “User no longer under a hardblock; IP block exemption no longer necessary” (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=rights&user=&page=User:Babelfisch&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= here]). What is that supposed to mean? Please explain.
:: [[User:Amalthea|Amalthea]], I do not quite understand what you mean when you say that my current IP has never been blocked. If you investigated me with CheckUser, you should have noticed that I sometimes have to use proxies – different proxies with different IPs – to edit. For users in China, it’s never easy to contribute to Wikipedia, and sometimes it is impossible.
:: I do not fully understand the technical details, and I find the explanations on Wikipedia rather confusing. See for yourself:
::*[[Blocking of Wikipedia by the People's Republic of China]],
::*[[Wikipedia:Advice to users using Tor to bypass the Great Firewall]],
::*[[Wikipedia:Open proxies]] and
::*[[Wikipedia:IP block exemption]].
:: It took Wikipedia bureaucrats more than a year to find some kind of solution for users in China. That had been working for me until yesterday, and I hope I won’t be arbitrarily blocked by administrators again. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 02:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

:: It was just [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MuZemike&action=historysubmit&diff=416868740&oldid=416854705 an oversight]. I was afraid I’d be blocked again for many months and have endless discussions with administrators who regard users from China as “acceptable collateral damage”. I’m glad this doesn’t seem to be the case at the moment. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 01:33, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

::: Blocked again.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=User%3ABabelfisch] Will this ever stop? --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 18:23, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

== Xinjiang ==

Hi,

It was a long time ago, but I believe I converted them mechanically. I apologize for all inconveniences and errors caused as a result. -- [[User:Ran|ran]] ([[User talk:Ran|talk]]) 01:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

== Örkesh Dölet ==

Hi,

Please use the correct Uyghur Latin Script (Uyghur Latin Yéziqi). See:
http://www.uyghurdictionary.org/excerpts/An%20Introduction%20to%20LSU.pdf

16:45, 14 December 2008 (UTC)  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/193.25.42.154|193.25.42.154]] ([[User talk:193.25.42.154|talk]]) </span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

: The official Latin transcription for Uighur is still ''yengi yezik̡'', not ULY. And please sign your contributions. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 01:17, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

:: Yengi yezik̡ has been already abolished in the beginning of 1980s. There is no doubt of it. You can find the document in PRC and XUAR Language and Script Committee. Though ULY is not the official script, it is strongly suggested by Xinjiang government and Xinjiang University as a Latin script for Uyghur language. --(User:33.35) 10:27, 2 Jan 2009 (UTC) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding incorrectly [[Wikipedia:Signatures|signed]] comment added by IP [[Special:Contributions/193.25.42.154|193.25.42.154]] (Hochschule Anhalt (FH), Zentrum fuer Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie, Germany; [[Special:Contributions/193.25.42.154|contributions]] | [[User talk:193.25.42.154|talk]])</span>

::: Read your own sources. Even Duval writes that Yengi yezik̡ “kept the status of ''authorized'' option” and UKY/ULY is only an “''ancillary'' writing system” (p. 3). This is what the original resolution says: “在全面使用老文字以后，'''新文字仍可作为一种拼音符号予以保留'''” (新疆维吾尔自治区人民代表大会常务委员会关于全面使用维吾尔、哈萨克老文字的决议, 13 September 1982). In another article: “1982年又不得不恢复使用老维文，'''新维文作为拼音符号予以保留'''，并在必要场合使用。” (陈章太：[http://www.china-language.gov.cn/115/2007_6_25/1_115_1771_0_1182773044953.html 论语言规划的基本原则], 28 April 2005; my emphases). If you read neither Chinese nor Uighur, this is also noted in Reinhard F. Hahn: ''Spoken Uyghur'', University of Washington Press 1991, p. 98.
::: ULY/UKY, on the other hand, has no official status whatsoever. If the government of China or the government of Xinjiang has passed any laws, regulations or resolutions to the contrary, I'd be absolutely thrilled to read them.
::: And once again: Please [[Wikipedia:Signature|sign]] your contributions using four tildes. —[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 04:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

== Proposed Tibetan naming conventions ==

A few months ago, I posted a new proposal for [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Tibetan)|Tibetan naming conventions]]. This came out of discussions about article titles on [[Talk:Qamdo]] and [[Talk:Lhoka (Shannan) Prefecture]]. I hope that discussions on the proposal's [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Tibetan)|talk page]] will lead to consensus in favour of making these conventions official, but so far only a few editors have left comments. If you would be interested in taking a look at the proposed [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Tibetan)|naming conventions]] and [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Tibetan)|giving your opinion]], I would definitely appreciate it. Thanks &mdash; [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 22:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Help needed! ==
Hi! thanks for pointing out that the articles on [[Kirti Monastery]] and the one I did recently on [[Kirti Gompa]] referred to the same place. Therefore they should be merged. I am quite willling to do the job but ... please help if you can! I have proposed to merge the article '''Kirti Monastery''' with '''Kirti Gompa''' as they represent unnecessary duplication. As part of this process I am supposed to put tags at the top of all the involved pages - see information on [[Wikipedia:Merging]]. However, I have tried everything I can think of and can't get them to work properly. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much, [[User:John Hill|John Hill]] ([[User talk:John Hill|talk]]) 07:48, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

: I just had a look and saw the tags are working. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 01:26, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi again! I have just done the merger today - I had a few difficulties but it seems to be working all right now. I hope I have done it all properly. Best wishes, [[User:John Hill|John Hill]] ([[User talk:John Hill|talk]]) 02:09, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

: Looks fine to me. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 08:24, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

== xiaoerjin verification ==

If Benlisquare does not have the proper software to type the Hanzi, I request you do so, see here, regarding the xiaoerjing- [[User_talk:Benlisquare#I_Need_Hanzi]][[User:ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ|ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ]] ([[User talk:ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ|talk]]) 22:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
==Talkback==
{{talkback|Talk:Pinyin#Pinyin for transcribing minority languages|ts=09:32, 3 December 2011 (UTC)}}
––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 09:32, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== South Tibet/ Arunachal Pradesh / Arunachal Pradesh dispute / South Tibet dispute ==

As a participant to previous discussions at the South Tibet/ Arunachal Pradesh / Arunachal Pradesh dispute / South Tibet dispute talk page, you might be interested to participate to the [[Talk:South_Tibet_dispute#Moving_ahead|following poll]]. Thanks, --[[User:Pseudois|Pseudois]] ([[User talk:Pseudois|talk]]) 04:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

== [[WP:ACE2015|ArbCom elections are now open!]] ==

Hi,<br>
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current [[WP:ACE2015|Arbitration Committee election]]. The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia [[WP:RFAR|arbitration process]]. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[WP:ARBPOL|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to [[WP:ACE2015/C|review the candidates' statements]] and submit your choices on [[Special:SecurePoll/vote/398|the voting page]]. For the Election committee, [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 22:16, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
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== Tibetan place names ==
While mapping missing towns in Tibet on [[OpenStreetMap]] (OSM) I stumbled upon a list of towns including Tibetan place names in [[Damxung County]]; I found you having added the names (thank you! ;) Are there any sources in internet for Tibetan place names? The only source I've found is a list with bo/zh places on [http://tibetan.qh.gov.cn/system/2015/04/23/010160930.shtml tibetan.qh.gov.cn]. Some monasteries I could identify on tbrc.org... The current state of name:bo tagged place names on OSM can be checked on this site [http://mlm.jochentopf.com/?zoom=9&lat=29.45156&lon=89.27216&layers=B0T&lang=bo]--[[User:Katpatuka|katpatuka]] ([[User talk:Katpatuka|talk]]) 14:57, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

: I don't know any other useful websites. I mostly use these:
:* 国家测绘局地名研究所: 西藏地名 / བོད་ལྗོངས་ས་མིང། Beijing: 中国藏学出版社, 1995; {{ISBN|7-80057-284-6}}.
:* 陈观胜, 安才旦 (eds.): རྒྱ་དབྱིན་བོད་གསུམ་ཤན་སྦྱར་གྱི་བོད་སྐད་ཀྱི་མི་མིང་དང་དང་ས་མིང་གཏེར། / 常见藏语人名地名词典. Beijing: 外文出版社, 2004; {{ISBN|7-119-03497-9}}.
: Neither is error-free. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 17:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
::That means nothing online - only hardcover ;) ok, thanks --[[User:Katpatuka|katpatuka]] ([[User talk:Katpatuka|talk]]) 17:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

==Please unblock==
{{unblock reviewed | 1=Partially living in China. Need Tor for access and anonymity. | accept = As before, added "check with user before removing, not always in China" to IBPE log, hopefully it won't happen again [[User:Ronhjones|<b style="border:1px solid #dfdfdf;color:green; padding:1px 3px;background:#FFD">Ron<span style="color:red">h</span>jones&nbsp;</b>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ronhjones|&nbsp;(Talk)]]</sup> 17:19, 25 March 2016 (UTC)}}

: Thanks, [[User:Ronhjones|Ronhjones]]! And maybe you'd like to contribute to this debate: [[Wikipedia talk: IP block exemption]].
: The administrator who blocked me is unrepentant, so this is actually quite likely to happen again unless the rules are changed. --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 19:24, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for the link, and I have contributed. [[User:Ronhjones|<b style="border:1px solid #dfdfdf;color:green; padding:1px 3px;background:#FFD">Ron<span style="color:red">h</span>jones&nbsp;</b>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ronhjones|&nbsp;(Talk)]]</sup> 22:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for April 7==

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== [[WP:ACE2016|ArbCom Elections 2016]]: Voting now open! ==

{{Ivmbox|Hello, Babelfisch. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2016|2016 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2016/Candidates|the candidates' statements]] and submit your choices on '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/399|the voting page]]'''. [[User:Mdann52|Mdann52]] ([[User talk:Mdann52|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
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== [[WP:ACE2016|ArbCom Elections 2016]]: Voting now open! ==

{{Ivmbox|Hello, Babelfisch. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2016|2016 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2016/Candidates|the candidates' statements]] and submit your choices on '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/399|the voting page]]'''. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
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== ArbCom 2017 election voter message ==

{{Ivmbox|Hello, Babelfisch. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2017|2017 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2017/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/400|voting page]]'''. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
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== Administrador de Infraestructuras Ferroviarias ==

Is the Copy-paste offense at [[Administrador de Infraestructuras Ferroviarias]] fully resolved from 2013?--[[User:Dthomsen8|Dthomsen8]] ([[User talk:Dthomsen8|talk]]) 02:57, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

== IPBE expiring - March 2019 ==

Hello Babelfisch, I'm working on some routine cleanup and see you have not made use of the [[WP:IPBE|ip block exemption]] flag on your account for over a year. This will be removed in about a week, unless you reply below that you still have a need for this flag.  This will have no impact on your ability to read Wikipedia. Best regards, — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 12:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
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:Hello again.  As your account has been inactive for a year and there was no reply above, this flag has been removed.  This will have no impact on general editing, however if you are trying to edit from certain blocked IP addresses you may need to move to another address or request a new exemption.  Best regards, — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 20:55, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[Khotan]] ==

<!--<includeonly>}}</includeonly>-->
Hello, Babelfisch

Welcome to Wikipedia!  I edit here too, under the username [[User:Mccapra|Mccapra]] and it's nice to meet you :-)

I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, [[Khotan]], for deletion because it's a [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|biography of a living person]] that lacks [[WP:RS|references]]. To prevent the deletion, please [[Wikipedia:Citing sources|add a reference]] to the article.

If you have any questions, please leave a comment here and prepend it with <code><nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Mccapra<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>. And, don't forget to sign your reply with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> . Thanks!

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[[User:Mccapra|Mccapra]] ([[User talk:Mccapra|talk]]) 12:53, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

: {{ping|Mccapra}} WTF (pardon my French). Welcome? OK, thanks. I think I’ve been here six years before you, but never mind, and nice to meet you, too. More to the point: Hotan is not a person, neither living nor dead. What were you talking about? --[[User:Babelfisch|Babelfisch]] ([[User talk:Babelfisch#top|talk]]) 20:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
::hi. The article you originally created appears to have been hijacked at some point and in 2020 it was an unsourced stub about an Iranian YouTuber. Ultimately it was redirected to a location in China rather than deleted. All the best  [[User:Mccapra|Mccapra]] ([[User talk:Mccapra|talk]]) 21:16, 20 January 2022 (UTC)