View source for Template talk:Sockpuppet

{{skiptotoctalk}}
{{permprot}}
{{talkheader}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}}
|maxarchivesize = 135K
|counter = 2
|minthreadsleft = 3
|algo = old(120d)
|archive = Template talk:Sockpuppet/Archive %(counter)d
}}{{Old AfD multi
| date      = 11 February 2005
| result    = '''Keep'''
| link      = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/Not_deleted/February_2005#Template:Sockpuppet
| caption   = TfD
| date2     = 22 April 2005
| result2   = '''Keep'''
| link2     = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/Not_deleted/April_2005#Template:Sockpuppet
| caption2  = TfD
| date3     = 6 July 2006
| result3   = '''Keep'''
| link3     = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_6#Template:Sockpuppet
| caption3  = TfD
| type      = template
}}
__TOC__
== Deprecation of "an editor has expressed a concern" version ==

Currently, invocation of this template without parameters except the master ({{code|<nowiki>{{sockpuppet|Example}}</nowiki>}}) or with the "suspected" parameter ({{code|<nowiki>{{sockpuppet|Example|suspected}}</nowiki>}}) produces the following: {{Sockpuppet|Example}}
I think this is rather suboptimal, because it leads to erroneous tagging (it would seem more intuitive that the template without parameter or a {{code|suspected}} parameter marks the editor as a blocked suspected sockpuppet), and because I believe that we shouldn't be tagging people as socks if they haven't been clearly identified as such and blocked. {{u|ToBeFree}} removed ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet/doc&diff=1005283518&oldid=967764503][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet/doc&diff=1005287118&oldid=1005283830]) these two parameters from the documentation a few months ago (something I obviously agree with), but the code of the template has not changed. I'm not a template wizard, so I'm not sure how feasible it is, but I'm wondering if we can remove these parameters (and instead have them redirect to what is currently produced by {{code|<nowiki>{{sockpuppet|Example|blocked}}</nowiki>}}). The technical issue I see is that the template is currently in use on userpages of actual blocked socks, so outright removal would lead to correct sock tags being removed and messing up categories. Hence, I basically have two questions: 
# Is this actually an issue? That is, should we remove or retarget this use of the template? 
# If yes, how can we do that, and is it worth the effort? 
An AWB run to remove all current uses of this version would untag socks that ''should'' be tagged, subst:ing would (as far as I know) uncategorise the socks and render the template useless, and simple retargeting would tag people who aren't blocked as blocked sockpuppets. One potential solution I can think of would be to query the database for uses of this version of the template on pages of users that blocked or globally locked, selectively remove them from those pages, and then retarget the parameters. [[User:Blablubbs|Blablubbs]]&#124;[[User talk:Blablubbs|talk]] 16:37, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

:Thanks for the ping :) Regarding 1: No idea, but I guess the issue is more than just a purely theoretical one. I agree with changing the default to "blocked", as I see no legitimate use for the current default (it doesn't comply with [[WP:HSOCK]]). Regarding 2: Using any scripting language of your choice, perhaps Python, you can alternatively make API calls to the Query API, property "linkshere" https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=help&modules=query%2Blinkshere , to retrieve a list of transclusions into an array. You can then use that array to make API calls to Userinfo, "blockinfo" https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Userinfo , to fetch the information without running a complicated SQL query. It's surely not the most technically efficient way, but one that might provide less human frustration in reaching the goal. I can't do this, however; I lack scripting experience and time to dedicate towards that project. [[User:ToBeFree|~ ToBeFree]] ([[User talk:ToBeFree|talk]]) 19:09, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
::Acutally, I just realised I might(?) have been mistaken about subst:ing breaking the categories, so this may actually be easier than I initially thought. [[User:Blablubbs|Blablubbs]]&#124;[[User talk:Blablubbs|talk]] 12:10, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
:::This is technically possible, as {{u|ToBeFree}} said. I see 3 practical steps:
:::# Remove the template from every non-blocked user.
:::# Remove the "suspected" parameter.
:::# Make "blocked" the default.
:::If there is consensus to make this change, I can help with it. [[User:MarioGom|MarioGom]] ([[User talk:MarioGom|talk]]) 05:45, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
::::I did quick exploration of usages and I think we have not enough information about historic usage of the template. I would suggest a first step before going forward. We can create two categories: one for all usages of this template without status parameter. Another for suspected/spi parameter. Then we can spend some time going through these accounts and figuring out the conversion rules, just in case there is more than one possible case. What do you think? [[User:MarioGom|MarioGom]] ([[User talk:MarioGom|talk]]) 12:31, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::Definitely agree we should set up some tracking cats; when I deprecated {{t|blocked sockpuppet}} there were a few dozen pages that had ''no'' master listed, so we now have [[:Category:Users tagged as sockpuppets with no listed master]]. Let me know what we need to track and I'll set it up. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 15:53, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::As an interim step, I've removed the parameters that don't comply with policy from the docs, see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet/doc&diff=1028071249&oldid=1024392709]. --[[User:Blablubbs|Blablubbs]]&#124;[[User talk:Blablubbs|talk]] 17:37, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

{{Outdent}} I'm looking at different classes of sockpuppet tags without second parameter. Some seem to need manual review and fix, and others might be quickly removed. A low hanging fruit are the 264 unblocked IPs that have this tag, and can probably all removed with very quick review (AWB maybe?). See the list here: https://public.paws.wmcloud.org/User:MarioGom/fix_sockpuppet_templates.ipynb#Unblocked-IPs-without-second-parameter I can assist with the removal if there is consensus, or a SPI clerk or admin might want to do it instead? [[User:MarioGom|MarioGom]] ([[User talk:MarioGom|talk]]) 11:09, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

== Simplify language for both blocked and locked ==

{{edit template-protected|answered=yes}}
"as well as being" is needlessly awkward and grammatically incorrect (inconsistency of tense). Please replace it with a simple "and".--[[User:Jasper Deng|Jasper Deng]] [[User talk:Jasper Deng|(talk)]] 10:42, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit template-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ETp --> Let's allow for a bit of discussion, if needed. It might help to put the desired changes in the sandbox and demonstrate them on the testcases page, since the code has a bunch of if statements that are not trivial to parse.  – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 07:04, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
::{{ping|Jonesey95}} This change is very trivial. It only requires finding “as well as being” and replacing it with “and”. I’m familiar enough with template syntax to verify this. Since I can’t find evidence of an objection there is a [[WP:SILENTCONSENSUS]] for this change. Requiring discussion is needlessly bureaucratic; [[WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY]]. It would make sense for a more substantial change but not a simple grammar fix.—[[User:Jasper Deng|Jasper Deng]] [[User talk:Jasper Deng|(talk)]] 07:50, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
:::Well, I agree with both of you. Since you brought this up, Jasper Deng, I looked at the [[Template:Sockpuppet#For use with a single master|example with this verbage]] and have to agree that it sounds a bit off. Was thinking tho' that just changing to the word "and" isn't enough, so just get rid of the word "being" to read, "and has been blocked indefinitely as well as locked globally." Now that's the ticket. Definitely needs improvement. Good catch''!'' '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I.&nbsp;Ellsworth</span>]]'''''&thinsp;,&nbsp;[[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'er&nbsp;there</sup>]]&nbsp;<small>10:50, 22 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Edit request ==

{{edit template-protected|answered=yes}}

Remove "also" as described [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sockpuppet/sandbox&diff=prev&oldid=1216505698 here]. Also remove NOINDEX as user pages and user talk pages are not indexed by default. [[User:ToadetteEdit|<span style="color:#fc65b8;">'''Toadette'''</span>]] <sup>''([[User talk:ToadetteEdit|<span style="color:blue;">Let's discuss together!</span>]])''</sup> 11:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
: {{done}} [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 00:55, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

== |locked=yes ==

{{edit template-protected|answered=yes}}
Can you please add [[:File:Wikimedia-globalblock.svg]] to the template so it can look like this, kinda like what's on the [[Template:Sockpuppet/sandbox]]?
[[Special:Contributions/167.205.23.115|167.205.23.115]] ([[User talk:167.205.23.115|talk]]) 03:39, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit template-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ETp --> I don't see this icon on the sandbox page or the testcases page, and I don't know that it matches the intent of this template. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 04:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)