View source for Template talk:Rail line

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==Documentation==
Is this template documented anywhere? --[[User:Concrete Cowboy|Concrete Cowboy]] 14:40, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

:Not that I can find. I am particularly wondering about the coloured bars - I think they're being used to distinguish railway companies, but I haven't found a key. --[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] 17:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

==Colour-coding for rail operators==
As far as I can tell, from existing articles:
* <span style="color:#FF0000;">█</span> #FF0000 – [[First ScotRail]] and [[Virgin Trains]]
* <span style="color:#FFFF00;">█</span> #FFFF00 – [[Merseyrail]]
* <span style="color:#8B00FF;">█</span> #8B00FF – [[Northern Rail]]
* <span style="color:#800000;">█</span> #800000 – [[Wessex Trains]]
* <span style="color:#010385;">█</span> #010385 – [[First Great Western]], [[GNER]] and [[First TransPennine Express]]
* <span style="color:#30C5B8;">█</span> #30C5B8 – [[Arriva Trains Wales]] and [[Heathrow Express]]
* <span style="color:#00BB00;">█</span> #00BB00 – [[Central Trains]] and [[First Great Western Link]]
* <span style="color:#FF9999;">█</span> #FF9999 – [[Heathrow Connect]]
* <span style="color:#008080;">█</span> #008080 – [[Midland Mainline]]
* <span style="color:#2E8B57;">█</span> #2E8B57 – [[Hull Trains]]
* <span style="color:#C80051;">█</span> #C80051 – [[CrossCountry]] <small>([[User:Kevin Steinhardt|Kevin Steinhardt]] 00:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC))</small>
* <span style="color:#FF7518;">█</span> #FF7518 – [[London Overground]] <small>([[User:Kevin Steinhardt|Kevin Steinhardt]] 00:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC))</small>
* <span style="color:#FA0000;">█</span> #FA0000 – [[National Express East Coast]] <small>([[User:Kevin Steinhardt|Kevin Steinhardt]] 03:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC))</small>
* <span style="color:#0D2A72;">█</span> #0D2A72 – [[Crossrail]] <small>([[User:Kevin Steinhardt|Kevin Steinhardt]] 09:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC))</small>

I'm not sure why several operators have to share the same colour in some cases. In the absence of anything else, I guess this can be used as a quick-reference -- [[User:Gurch|Gurch]] 22:30, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

:Some time recently, it seems to have been decided to go pink with First ScotRail, primarily to keep with First ScotRail's colours. Some of the big ones have already been changed, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edinburgh_Waverley_railway_station&oldid=50602011 here], for example, on the 28th April. Some work has already been done on this, and as I've gone through, I've changed with this move. Can we reach quick concensus that oweing to First ScotRail's new colours, and that Virgin Trains serve some routes that First ScotRail do, we can move to
* <span style="color:#FF80C0;">█</span> #FF80C0 - [[First ScotRail]]

Cheers. [[User:M0RHI|M0RHI]] | [[User talk:M0RHI|Talk to me]] 23:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

==Colour-coding for Historical Scottish Routes==
* <span style="color:#66ba5a;">█</span> #66ba5a G&SWR: A light olive green
* <span style="color:#496799;">█</span> #496799 Caledonian: 'Caledonian Blue'
* <span style="color:#517a6a;">█</span> #517a6a Joint Caledonian and G&SWR: an aqua colour as a result of mixing the two colours together for G&SWR and Caledonian
* <span style="color:#8f691e;">█</span> #8f691e North British: 'French mustard'
* <span style="color:#556920;">█</span> #556920 Joint NBR and Caledonian: A mixture of the colours for NBR and Caledonian
(from [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Transport in Scotland|WPTIS Talk]])
[[User:Pencefn|Stewart]] 18:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

==[[Template:Rail station]]==
Users of this template may be interested in [[Template:Rail station]], being developed by [[User:Captain scarlet]] as a possible alternative or replacement. [[User:Warofdreams|Warofdreams]] ''[[User talk:Warofdreams|talk]]'' 23:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

== Auto-terminus ==

I've changed the template so that when "previous" and/or "next" are not defined, ''Terminus'' will automatically show up in the respective column. I hope this saves some space in the articles about termini. - [[User:Tangotango|Tangot]][[User:Tangotango/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">a</span>]][[User Talk:Tangotango|ngo]] 18:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== colours - update ==

I've done a load of "research" on colour used by each different TOC and put the results up at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways#colours]] (I'll copy the raw data over here later as an index). I'm asking some pretty key question that affect the use of colours relating to this template, all variants of it (heritage, disused, etc) and well as the "infamous" "s-rail". any comments, thoughts, agreement, disagreement would be welcome - before i do something drastic and upset someone! [[User:Pickle UK|Pickle]] 08:52, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

== "Next" and "Previous" Flexibility ==

Is it possible to have some flexibility in the "next" and "previous" settings, so that you can have more than one station as the next/preivous on the line?  At present it seems that you can only have one, and this is not much use for stations before or after a junction.  If there was some way of putting "Previous Stations: X ''or'' Y" that would be great.  If there is already, please correct me and show me how!!  Thank you.  [[User:Chrisfow|Chrisfow]] ([[User talk:Chrisfow|talk]]) 00:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

== Border widths ==

For a long time, I've noticed that if {{tlc|rail line}} is used inside route boxes commenced using {{tlx|s-rail-start}}, some of the borders will appear double-width, because of a differing method in border specification, as seen at [[Shildon railway station]].

In technical terms, {{tlx|s-rail-start}} applies the <code>border-collapse: separate;</code> property to the table, and expects the cells in each row to have the bottom cell borders always suppressed, also selectively suppressing the left or right borders, so that only one border is drawn between any two adjacent cells. {{tlx|rail start}} does not apply <code>border-collapse: separate;</code>, and does not expect the row templates to specify any border suppression. This means that should a cell have its bottom border set, and the cell directly beneath have it top border set, two adjacent borders are drawn, which has the appearance of a double-width border. Similarly for the right and left borders of cells side by side. Less obviously, but equally visible, this causes the doubling of the width of the outer edges of the table - it gets one border from the table itself, and one from the cell inside.

We might be able to fix this by adding selective border suppression to {{tlx|rail line}}: I have created a prototype at [[Template:Rail line/sandbox]], and set up [[Template:Rail line/testcases|some testcases]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 16:14, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
:Further: {{tlx|s-rail-start}} also applies <code>style="border-top: 0px none; "</code> where {{tlx|rail start}} etc. do not. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 14:08, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

== Collapse functionality  ==

There really needs to be a way to collapse all these services. At present, look at the article [[Haymarket railway station]]. The services chart takes up way too much space. I'm not sure what to do about this, but I'll leave this here in case anyone cares to do anything about it. [[User:RGloucester|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">RGloucester </span>]] — [[User talk:RGloucester|☎]] 17:13, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
:This came up about a month ago on [[Talk:Filton Abbey Wood railway station/GA1]]. {{diff|Talk:Filton Abbey Wood railway station/GA1|prev|591610634|Here's my response}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:27, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

== What should go in the 'Route' box? ==

I'm not clear what should go in the route box. Is it just (a) the name of the TOC and then (b) the name of the railway? In the absence of template documentation, 'custom and practice' seems to say yes, that's all. 

Except when it isn't: sometimes we also have a (c) '''Terminus-1''' {{spaced ndash}} '''Terminus 2'''.  Whether or not item c appears seems to be at the whim of editors, so some add it and others delete it. But sometimes it seems indispensable, especially when cross-country services are involved (see {{rws|Reading}} or {{rws|Oxford}} for example) or for 'n-furcated' lines like the [[West Coast Main Line]].  Comments? <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/John Maynard Friedman|contribs]]) 11:33, 15 September 2014‎</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:As I understand it, for routes with a current service, the {{para|route}} parameter holds the name of the TOC on the upper line, in normal size text; and the name of the route, line or service on the lower, in {{tag|small}} tags.
:The Reading/Oxford problem is one of a complicated service pattern. There are two main traffic flows for XC services to the north: those that at Birmingham go straight on towards Stafford, and those that back out again and head for Derby. Similarly, to the south, there are those which go no further than Reading, and those which back out again and head for Southampton. But there are many different origins, and destinations also: Bournenouth, Southampton C, Reading, Birmingham NS, Manchester Picc, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh (I may have missed some).
:We have differing editor attitudes: on the one hand there are people (like me) who would have the routebox show only the principal services - ''most'' trains at off-peak times are either Manchester-Bournemouth, or Newcastle-Reading, so those are the only two services that I would include. But there are some people who wish to sqeeze in every possible origin and destination, even for once-a-day services (like the last train of the day which only runs part of the route). This in my view is unnecessary overcomplication. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 14:55, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
::So you are saying that item c, the [primary] service being run, should always be shown? But surely that just duplicates the 'Service pattern' which has already been given under each TOC above? (and, as you say, it invites people to put in every destination). 
::You do many more of these than I do: what is your sense of the consensus 'custom and practice'? My objective in this discussion is to create a proper 'template documentation' that is much needed for this template. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 14:08, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
:::As I see it, (c) has crept in over recent years based on the parameter in {{tlx|s-rail}}. It used to be limited to routeboxes appearing in Metro station articles but then popped up in Crossrail stations. At best, it tells the reader what [[Teaching grandmother to suck eggs|they already know]]. At worst, it adds another layer of complication as service patterns don't always allow for neat distinctions (e.g. Reading/Oxford), meaning that several rows would be needed to accurately reflect the situation. However, we're now straying into [[WP:NOTTIMETABLE]] territory. Surely the most simple solution is to follow the standard approach that routeboxes run from [[Rail_directions#Up_and_down|north to south, west to east]]. That way, we're only interested in the preceding and following stations without having to check TOC timetables to see if Bournemouth or Crinkley Bottom is actually the terminus for the service in question. [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 16:22, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
::::{{replyto|Lamberhurst}} I don't think that {{u|John Maynard Friedman}} is referring to the "towards" items in the left/right columns of routeboxes [[Ealing Broadway station#External links|like this]], but to the station pairs in the central column of routeboxes [[Oxford railway station#Services|like this]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:19, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::I see...I hadn't come across that before. Although I can understand how such an addition can be useful, adding such a level of detail poses difficulties in terms of keeping the routes indicated up-to-date for complex service patterns. The point is well-illustrated by the situation at Oxford. Today's timetable between 1128 and 1243 reveals [http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/OXF/2014/09/17/1142?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt three different XC services]: Newcastle/Southampton, Reading/Newcastle and Manchester/Bournemouth. Only the third service is correctly referred to in the Oxford routebox with the first omitted entirely and the second inaccurately mentioned. And I haven't even checked the rest of the day's XC services. [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 20:58, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::The problem is particularly evident/severe in places like Oxford and Reading because the lines used by the XC services don't have pretty names like WCML or even [[East West Rail Link|EWRL]], more a bit of this bit of that.  As the template stands, this central box assumes that there will be such a nice name. Where it doesn't exist, people make something up like the Terminus-1 - Terminus-2 notation. Unfortunately that in turn becomes problematic if there are in fact no services from ''this'' station to one or other of those terminuses. 
::::::We also have to think of the 'world-wide perspective' in proposing rules for the template: just taking two places at random - [[Gare de Lyon-Perrache]] and [[Bologna Centrale railway station]] - in all cases the middle box is used simply for the type of service (TGV, intercity, sleeper, regional) [which, IMHO, would be an improvement on the mess we have here]. Maybe it is just too late to stuff the cat back in the bag? --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 15:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::::If such detail is not given either at Perrache or Bologna, that gives further support to the notion that it is not needed here. As far as I can see, it appears to be the action of a minority of editors, and I would therefore suggest not continuing it. This {{diff|Bletchley railway station|prev|626004038|recent edit}} to Bletchley highlights the difficulties involved: the Southern service to MK from Croydon runs over the WCML, the Dudding Hill line, the WLL and the BML. Furthermore, the service has been known to start from South Croydon. The information there about the service is therefore inaccurate (but understandably so as the route is not well-known); why create a rod for our backs? [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 11:15, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

==Consistency in route (succession) boxes==

I've used these (as a reader), and also edited a few. I've noticed that they often contain a number or errors and inconsistencies. At the very least, I would expect that if you started at the first station on a line and selected the "following station", and repeated this you would eventually get to the last station... (More difficult if you're dealing with an unused or historic railway where maybe not all stations have an associated article).

I recently tried to "virtually travel" from Birmingham (New Street) to Liverpool Lime Street (with intermediate stations Cosely, Wolverhampton, Penkridge, Stafford, Crewe, Runcorn, Liverpool Parkway). Also, for simplicity, I've not included visiting the smaller stations of Winsford, Hartford, and Acton Bridge (and striked them out in the following table).

The following table shows the route boxes in the order of travel:

{{rail start}}
<!--As shown at Birmingham New Street-->
{{rail line|next={{Stnlnk|Coseley}}|route=[[London Midland]]<br /><small>([[West Coast Main Line|Birmingham-Liverpool]])</small><br>(No. 1 - as shown at Birmingham New Street) |col={{LM colour}} }}
<!--As shown at Cosely-->
{{rail line|previous=[[Birmingham New Street railway station|Birmingham New Street]]|next=[[Wolverhampton railway station|Wolverhampton]]|route=[[London Midland]]<br><small>[[West Coast Main Line|Birmingham-Liverpool]]</small><br>(No. 2 - as shown at Cosely) |col={{LM colour}} }}
<!--As shown at Wolverhampton-->
{{rail line|previous=[[Coseley railway station|Coseley]]|next=[[Penkridge railway station|Penkridge]]|route=[[London Midland]]<br><small>Birmingham-Liverpool</small><br>(No. 3 - as shown at Wolverhampton)|col={{LM colour}} }}
<!--As shown at Penkridge-->
{{rail line|previous=[[Wolverhampton railway station|Wolverhampton]]|next=[[Stafford railway station|Stafford]]|route=[[London Midland]]<br><small>[[Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line]]</small> <br>(No. 4 - as shown at Penkridge)|col={{LM colour}} }}
<!--As shown at Stafford-->
{{s-rail-national|previous=Penkridge|next=Crewe|toc=London Midland|route=Liverpool-Birmingham<br><big>(No. 5 - as shown at Stafford)</big>}}
<!--As shown at Crewe-->
{{rail line|next=<s>[[Winsford railway station|Winsford]]<br />or [[Hartford railway station|Hartford]]<br /> or </s>[[Runcorn railway station|Runcorn]]|previous=[[Stafford railway station|Stafford]]|route=[[London Midland]]<br /><small>[[West Coast Main Line|Birmingham - Liverpool]]</small><br>(No. 6 - as shown at Crewe) |col={{LM colour}} }}
<!--As shown at Runcorn-->
{{rail line|previous=[[Liverpool South Parkway railway station|Liverpool South Parkway]]|next=<s>[[Acton Bridge railway station|Acton Bridge]]<br />or [[Hartford railway station|Hartford]]<br />or</s> [[Crewe railway station|Crewe]]|route=[[London Midland]]<br /><small>Liverpool-Birmingham</small><br>(No. 7 - as shown at Runcorn) |col={{LM colour}} }}
<!--As shown at Liverpool Parkway-->
{{rail line|next={{stnlnk|Liverpool Lime Street}} |previous={{stnlnk|Runcorn}}|route=[[London Midland]]<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Birmingham New Street - Liverpool Lime Street]]</small><br>(No. 8 - as shown at Liverpool Parkway) |col={{LM colour}} }}
<!--As shown at Liverpool Lime Street-->
{{rail line |previous=[[Liverpool South Parkway railway station|Liverpool South Parkway]]|route=[[London Midland]]<br><small>Liverpool - Birmingham</small> <br>(No. 9 - as shown at Liverpool Lime Street)|col={{LM colour}} }}
{{rail end}}

It goes reasonably well until you get the Runcorn, where (clicking on "following station") you get to Crewe - to go to Runcorn (Oh! Mr Porter). It begins to sort itself out after that but there are some other inconsistencies:
*The route is shown in four different ways (Birmingham-Liverpool, Liverpool-Birmingham, Birmingham New Street - Liverpool Lime Street, and Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line), and that's ignoring minor differences of brackets, spacing, wikilinking or not...
*Where the route is wikilinked, it points to three different lines (West Coast Mainline, Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line, and Crewe to Liverpool Line). Some of this might actually be ok - but only if it was done consistently.
I've seen these sorts of errors/inconsistencies when following through different succession boxes (try the South Wales valley lines or the lines passing through Bristol Temple Meads).

I'm quite happy to have a go at tidying this up, but have some questions:
*Would you name the line as Liverpool-Birmingham or Birmingham-Liverpool? I think I favour Liverpool-Birmingham - most (all?) route maps (including the West Coast Main Line) have some relationship with the geography showing (for example) Liverpool above Birmingham - it seems slightly more intuitive that the "following station" describes the next station moving down (south-ish). And lets not get into West/East routes just yet...
*Should the links underlying the route names point to different routes? BTW The West Coast Line doesn't show Liverpool Parkway, but the Crewe to Liverpool line does.
*If yes, what would they be? I'd certainly put the Crewe to Liverpool line under the link in the route boxes for Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Parkway, Runcorn, and probably Crewe. But for the remaining stations, should they point to the West Coast Main Line or the Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line?
[[User:Robevans123|Robevans123]] ([[User talk:Robevans123|talk]]) 00:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
:As regards direction, there is a convention (which is not universal) that the left-hand column shows the station that is further west or north, the right-hand column shows the station that is further east or south. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 00:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

::Thanks - useful to know - must admit I've not been able to discern a convention... Is it described somewhere? Which takes precedence - N-S or W-E? But would it be better to establish a convention based on the general direction of the whole line? You can then move from one "following" station to another "following" station?

::I'm sure one of the South Wales valley lines effectively goes in the opposite direction to all the others (and they all basically run N-S) - will check it. And the Welsh Marches line seems the wrong way round to me... [[User:Robevans123|Robevans123]] ([[User talk:Robevans123|talk]]) 01:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
:::I have been gradually amending routeboxes to reflect the convention mentioned by Redrose64. It's preferable to have one approach for all routeboxes precisely to avoid the situation that you have highlighted very well in the examples above. In the routebox, there should always be a link to the route and if the link is piped, the description given should be the same for all routeboxes on the route. I'm happy to go with L'pool-B'ham but it should be consistent. The Crewe to Liverpool line should be linked only in routeboxes for stations on the sections of the route via Weaver Junction. [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 10:43, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
::::Thanks. I'll go with Liverpool-Birmingham throughout. For the stations from Liverpool Lime Street to Crewe, I'll put the Crewe to Liverpool line in the link; and for Stafford to Birmingham New Street I'll put the Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford line in the link.
::::It would still be nice to know where the convention mentioned above is described - useful if someone objects to changes, or is just asking about it.
::::Good to see someone else working on these lines. Should we set up a mini-project somewhere in UK trains? Nothing complicated - just three lists (routes checked/edited and ok; routes checked and found wanting; and routes not yet checked)? [[User:Robevans123|Robevans123]] ([[User talk:Robevans123|talk]]) 14:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::It isn't documented anywhere but there have been discussions over the years. The closest one gets is [[wikivoyage:Wikivoyage:Routebox_navigation#Assigning_directions|here]]. There's a red link on [[WP:UKRAIL]] which refers to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_Railways/Guidelines|Guidelines]] where this sort of information should go. Without it being documented, you run the risk of somebody reverting your edits as happened to me {{Diff|Yaxley and Farcet railway station|368203121|368055825|on the ECML}}  [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 14:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::That's interesting - definitely a need for a discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways]] and if possible something derived from that to go in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_Railways/Guidelines|Guidelines]] (and while we're at it, the contents of the routeboxes as in previous topic on this page, and also the amount of detail shown in the route diagrams as well...). All three topics that exhibit a wide variety of detail and inconsistency. I'll have a think about that, but in the meantime I'll try to bring some semblance of order to Liverpool-Birmingham. It'll be interesting to see if anybody reverts or rejects. [[User:Robevans123|Robevans123]] ([[User talk:Robevans123|talk]]) 16:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
So here's what the stations on the Liverpool-Birmingham route should look like (I've left the station names in for now for ease of editing):
{{rail start}}
<!--Liverpool Lime Street-->
{{rail line
|next={{stnlnk|Liverpool South Parkway}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Liverpool Lime Street)<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Liverpool South Parkway-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Liverpool Lime Street}}<br>
|next={{stnlnk|Runcorn}}<br>
|route=[[London Midland]] (Liverpool South Parkway)<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Runcorn-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Liverpool South Parkway}}
|next={{stnlnk|Acton Bridge}} or {{stnlnk|Hartford}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Crewe}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Runcorn)<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Acton Bridge-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Runcorn}}<br>
|next={{stnlnk|Hartford}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Crewe}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Acton Bridge)<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Hartford-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Acton Bridge}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Runcorn}}
|next={{stnlnk|Winsford}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Crewe}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Hartford)<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Winsford-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Hartford}}<br>
|next={{stnlnk|Crewe}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Winsford)<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Crewe-->
{{Rail line two to two
|previous1={{stnlnk|Winsford}} or {{stnlnk|Hartford}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Acton Bridge}} or {{stnlnk|Runcorn}}
|next1={{stnlnk|Stafford}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Crewe)<br><small>[[Crewe to Liverpool Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Stafford-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Crewe}}<br>
|next={{stnlnk|Penkridge}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Wolverhampton}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Stafford)<br><small>[[Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Penkridge-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Stafford}}
|next={{stnlnk|Wolverhampton}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Penkridge)<br><small>[[Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Wolverhampton-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Penkridge}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Stafford}}
|next={{stnlnk|Coseley}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Smethwick Galton Bridge}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Birmingham New Street}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Wolverhampton)<br><small>[[Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Coseley-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Wolverhampton}}
|next={{stnlnk|Smethwick Galton Bridge}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Birmingham New Street}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Coseley)<br><small>[[Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Smethwick Galton Bridge-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Coseley}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Wolverhampton}}
|next={{stnlnk|Birmingham New Street}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Smethwick Galton Bridge)<br><small>[[Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
<!--Birmingham New Street-->
{{rail line
|previous={{stnlnk|Smethwick Galton Bridge}}<br>or {{stnlnk|Coseley}} or {{stnlnk|Wolverhampton}}
|route=[[London Midland]] (Birmingham New Street)<br><small>[[Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line|Liverpool-Birmingham]]</small>
|col={{LM colour}}
}}
{{rail end}}

I'll start editing the stations soon (expect more reverts round Birmingham than Liverpool)... 

Came across the [[Severn Beach Line]] recently and tweaked two of the stations to go in the same direction as the others. Services run from {{stnlnk|Severn Beach}}, via {{stnlnk|Avonmouth}}, to {{stnlnk|Bristol Temple Meads}}, but many start at Avonmouth, and services from Bristol Temple Meads often terminate at Avonmouth. I'm not sure the Avonmouth entry is quite right to reflect this variation of service. If anyone would like to check and correct? 

An alternative convention to N-S, W-E, that I've noticed on a number of UK main line routes is: "start at London and work out". [[User:Robevans123|Robevans123]] ([[User talk:Robevans123|talk]]) 17:56, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
:Severn Beach line looks ok; SB is the northern terminus and Avonmouth is the 2nd station to the south. St Andrews Rd needs tweaking as Chittening Platform was to the north. Same with the Henbury Loop reference in the Avonmouth routebox. [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 19:19, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

== Using Template:Rail line in infoboxes ==

{{FPER|ans=y}}

Currently, using [[Template:Rail line]] in [[Template:Infobox station]] doesn't work because some of the formatting is broken.  A couple of minor changes fixes this.  This will allow succession boxes to be placed in infoboxes without needing to create and debug the multiple sub-templates required for [[Template:S-line]].

<s>See [[User:Antony-22/Rail line]] and [[Merced (California High-Speed Rail station)]] for a test case.</s>  The changes needed are as follows:
* <s>Add <code>style = "vertical-align: middle;"</code> to each cell of [[Template:Rail start]]</s>
* Remove <code>style="text-align: center;"</code> from the first line of [[Template:Rail line]]
* Add <code>text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;</code> to each of the three table cell style elements in [[Template:Rail line]].

After the changes the template should look like this:

{{Collapse|
<syntaxhighlight lang=moin>
|- 
{{#if:{{{hide1|}}}||{{!}} rowspan="{{{rows1|1}}}" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; border-left: 0px none; border-right: 1px #aaa solid; border-top: 1px #aaa solid; border-bottom:{{#ifeq:{{{b}}}|d|dashed 1px #aaa|0px none}};"{{!}} {{#if:{{{previous|}}}|{{{previous}}}|''Terminus''}} }}
| style="background:#{{{col}}}; border-left: 0px none; border-right: 0px none; border-top:{{#if:{{{mergecol|}}}|0px none|1px #aaa solid}}; border-bottom:{{#ifeq:{{{b}}}|d|dashed 1px gray|0px none}};" | &nbsp;
{{#if:{{{hidemid|}}}||{{!}} rowspan="{{{rowsmid|1}}}" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; border-left: 1px #aaa solid; border-right: 1px #aaa solid; border-top:solid 1px #aaa; border-bottom:{{#ifeq:{{{b}}}|d|dashed 1px #aaa|0px none}};" {{!}} {{{route}}}{{#if:{{{lightcol|}}}|<div style="height:8px; background-color:#{{{lightcol}}}; border:none; margin:0;" />}} }}
| style="background:#{{{col}}}; border-left: 0px none; border-right: 0px none; border-top:{{#if:{{{mergecol|}}}|0px none|1px #aaa solid}}; border-bottom:{{#ifeq:{{{b}}}|d|dashed 1px gray|0px none}};" | &nbsp;
{{#if:{{{hide2|}}}||{{!}} rowspan="{{{rows2|1}}}" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; border-left: 1px #aaa solid; border-right: 0px none; border-top: 1px #aaa solid; border-bottom:{{#ifeq:{{{b}}}|d|dashed 1px #aaa|0px none}};"{{!}}{{#if:{{{next|}}}|{{{next}}}|''Terminus''}} }}
</syntaxhighlight>
|title=Template source
}}

Thanks. [[User:Antony-22|Antony&ndash;'''''22''''']] (<sup>[[User talk:Antony-22|talk]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Antony-22|contribs]]</sub>) 19:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=]] '''Not done:''' please make your requested changes to the template's sandbox first; see [[WP:TESTCASES]] - also, please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration before using the {{tlx|edit template-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ETp --> --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:11, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

===Discussion===
Okay, I've made the changes to the sandbox, see [[Template:Rail line/testcases]].  It looks like the [[Template:S-rail]] titles still work so the changes to [[Template:Rail start]] are unneeded.  Any feedback?  [[User:Antony-22|Antony&ndash;'''''22''''']] (<sup>[[User talk:Antony-22|talk]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Antony-22|contribs]]</sub>) 21:02, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Are these changes really necessary? [[Template:Rail start]] is predominantly used by UK articles and there is no consensus for integrating the routebox into the infobox. UK station infoboxes typically contain more information than those in the US, so including yet more information would add to the [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Railways/Archive_26#Overlong_infobox|"infobox bloat"]], especially where the routebox is particularly long - see for example [[London_King's_Cross_railway_station#Routes|King's Cross]]. [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 09:15, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
*:[[Template:S-line]] is used extensively in the US for both Amtrak and rapit transit; see, for example, [[King Street–Old Town station]] or [[Diridon Station]].  The problem is that S-line requires multiple sub-templates to be set up.  Utlimately I'm not proposing changing how the templates are used, I'm suggesting providing an easier backend, since giving the option of using rail line instead allows the values to be plugged in easily.  [[User:Antony-22|Antony&ndash;'''''22''''']] (<sup>[[User talk:Antony-22|talk]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Antony-22|contribs]]</sub>) 19:18, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
*:Are there any other objections or concerns?  Or does silence constitute consensus around here? [[User:Antony-22|Antony&ndash;'''''22''''']] (<sup>[[User talk:Antony-22|talk]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Antony-22|contribs]]</sub>) 23:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
*::Well, this page has only 19 watchers (including myself and probably Lamberhurst). Have you advertised the discussion at a page with more visibility, such as [[WT:RAIL]] (336 watchers)? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 00:52, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
*:::If s-line is used extensively for US articles, why provide for rail line? Are you going to go through all these articles and rework them to rail line? Am I going to have to formally object here to prevent the semblance that consensus exists for these changes? [[User:Lamberhurst|Lamberhurst]] ([[User talk:Lamberhurst|talk]]) 11:40, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
:::::No changes will be made to existing infoboxes.  Fixing the formatting gives the option to use this template, which is much easier to use than S-line, in new infoboxes.  Honestly, I thought that a minor fix to prevent a template from displaying incorrectly in some circumstances, and that is transparent to all other uses, would be uncontroversial.  [[User:Antony-22|Antony&ndash;'''''22''''']] (<sup>[[User talk:Antony-22|talk]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Antony-22|contribs]]</sub>) 21:29, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
::::::I use s-line almost all the time, but there are occasions when it would be silly to create all the background templates for a single use. This could apply to discontinued service where not every station still exists and you want to indicate the previous continuity for the few that remain. [[User:Secondarywaltz|Secondarywaltz]] ([[User talk:Secondarywaltz|talk]]) 22:07, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Is this enough discussion to make the change?  I really don't think it's necessary to essentially run an RfC just to get the text to center properly.  [[User:Antony-22|Antony&ndash;'''''22''''']] (<sup>[[User talk:Antony-22|talk]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Antony-22|contribs]]</sub>) 00:37, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
::::::::You didn't answer my q of 00:52, 7 November 2015 - where was this proposal notified? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 10:15, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
{{outdent|8}}
All right, I can post a note at [[WT:RAIL]].  To anybody joining this conversation now, I want to emphasize that I'm merely observing that both [[Template:Rail line]] and [[Template:S-line]] are acceptable for station succession boxes, that both the bottom of the article and the infobox are acceptable locations, and that the text doesn't center correctly for one combination of these.  I'm only proposing to fix the formatting to get the text to center correctly, and not any change to the usage of any of the templates.  See [[Template:Rail line/testcases]].  For the sake of clarity, the only changes are:
* Remove <code>style="text-align: center;"</code> from the first line.
* Add <code>text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;</code> to each of the three table cell style elements.
[[User:Antony-22|Antony&ndash;'''''22''''']] (<sup>[[User talk:Antony-22|talk]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Antony-22|contribs]]</sub>) 18:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 7 January 2020 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:Rail line|answered=yes}}
Please, add '''''vertical-align: middle''''' among the attributes of '''''style=''''' for the three text cells. Used within "Infobox station" (''services'' parameter) as it is now, this template ends up with the text vertically aligned on the top. [[User:Yak79 2.0|Yak79 2.0]] ([[User talk:Yak79 2.0|talk]]) 17:30, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please make your requested changes to the template's sandbox first; see [[Wikipedia:Template sandbox and test cases|WP:TESTCASES]].<!-- Template:ETp --> – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 19:05, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

{{Reply to|Jonesey95|prefix=Thanks,&nbsp;}} I made the requested change on the template's sandbox, and seeing the template's [[Template:Rail line/testcases|textcases page]], it's working just fine. Regards, [[User:Yak79 2.0|Yak79 2.0]] ([[User talk:Yak79 2.0|talk]]) 22:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ETp --> – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:41, 7 January 2020 (UTC)