View source for Template talk:Nihongo

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== Why are the romanizations huge?  ==

Looking at an article like [[Hikikomori]], the term "Hikikomori" is in a significantly larger font size than surrounding text, which looks really unprofessional. Is there a good reason for this? (I'm on Safari on a Mac, in case that matters.) [[User:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">'''Toadspike'''</span>]] [[User talk:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">[Talk]</span>]] 21:04, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
:For {{tlx|nihongo}}, the ordering of parameters is:
::<code><nowiki>{{Nihongo|</nowiki>&lt;{{var|english}}>&#124;&lt;{{var|kanji/kana}}>&#124;&lt;{{var|rōmaji}}>&#124;&lt;{{var|extra}}></code>
:That mess at the start of [[Hikikomori]] is:
::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{nihongo||ひきこもり {{lang|en|or}}   引きこもり| '''Hikikomori'''| {{small|[[Literal translation|lit.]]&nbsp;}}"pulling inward, being confined"|lead=yes}}</syntaxhighlight>
:::{{nihongo||ひきこもり {{lang|en|or}}   引きこもり| '''Hikikomori'''| {{small|[[Literal translation|lit.]]&nbsp;}}"pulling inward, being confined"|lead=yes}}
::::{{code|lang=html|{{nihongo||ひきこもり {{lang|en|or}}   引きこもり| '''Hikikomori'''| {{small|[[Literal translation|lit.]]&nbsp;}}"pulling inward, being confined"|lead=yes}}}}
:In the final rendering, 'Hikikomori' is marked up as <code>ja-Latn</code>.  There have been times when editors have complained that {{tld|nihongo}} or it underlying [[Module:Lang]] is doing something funny with fonts.  Neither of these apply fonts; that is the responsibility of your browser
:
:Does what you are seeing look like this:
::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1"><i lang="ja">'''Hikikomori'''</i></syntaxhighlight>
:::<i lang="ja">'''Hikikomori'''</i>
:With my browser (chrome win 10), 'Hikikomori' isin the above example is rendered with a finer slightly smaller font.  Some browsers don't properly distinguish between the <code>lang="ja"</code> and <code>lang="ja-Latn"</code> html attributes.
:
:Also, the gloss in <code>&lt;{{var|extra}}></code> should be using single quotes.
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 23:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the explanation. If I understand correctly, we're sticking with this because it's correct markup, and browsers just happen to display it in an ugly way? [[User:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">'''Toadspike'''</span>]] [[User talk:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">[Talk]</span>]] 09:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes.
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

== Comma and semicolon separator ==

{{TPER|answered=yes}}

I request a method to specify the separator used between the Japanese text and {{code|extra}} parameter for use in the lead paragraphs, as it currently is not possible. take the following text: 

: {{!xt|{{Nihongo|'''Satoru Iwata'''|岩田 聡|Iwata Satoru|extra=December{{nbsp}}6, 1959{{snd}}July{{nbsp}}11, 2015|lead=yes}} was ...}}

the correct formatting would be with a semicolon, not a comma, after the Hepburn romanization and before the date.

: {{xt|'''Satoru Iwata''' ({{langx|ja|岩田 聡}}, [[Hepburn romanization|Hepburn]]: {{Transliteration|ja|Iwata Satoru}}; December{{nbsp}}6, 1959{{snd}}July{{nbsp}}11, 2015) was ...}}

one simply option would be to automatically change it to a semicolon whenever {{para|lead|yes}} is passed. [[User:JnpoJuwan|Juwan]] ([[User talk:JnpoJuwan|talk]]) 16:47, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

:I am here to request the same thing: on the [[Nintendo Switch 2]] page, the intro ought to have a semicolon in this template after the Hepburn field:

{{blockquote|Japanese: ニンテンドースイッチ2, Hepburn: Nintendō Suitchi Tsū, Nintendo branded the console in Japan using its English name.}}

:[[User:DividedFrame|Brad]] ([[User talk:DividedFrame|talk]]) 20:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:taking a peek at the code, this would be done by modifying the {{code|formatting}} table, as shown below:

:<syntaxhighlight lang="lua">
local formatting = {
    -- <5p4n> and </5p4n>: place holders for font-weight style spans; akin to stripmarkers, replaced  before function returns
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {extra}}, 												-- 1 - (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {romanized}},												-- 2 - romanized
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, extra}},									-- 3 - romanized (extra)
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {native}},												-- 4 - native
	{'<5p4n>(%s, %s)', {native, extra}},									-- 5 - (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, native}},									-- 6 - romanized (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {romanized, native, extra}},						-- 7 - romanized (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {english}},												-- 8 - english
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, extra}},									-- 9 - english (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, romanized}},								-- 10 - english (romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {english, romanized, extra}},						-- 11 - english (romanized, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, native}},									-- 12 - english (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {english, native, extra}},						-- 13 - english (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {english, native, romanized}},					-- 14 - english (native, romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s, %s)', {english, native, romanized, extra}},			-- 15 - english (native, romanized, extra)
}
</syntaxhighlight>

:to the code below:

:<syntaxhighlight lang="lua">
local formatting = {
    -- <5p4n> and </5p4n>: place holders for font-weight style spans; akin to stripmarkers, replaced  before function returns
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {extra}}, 												-- 1 - (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {romanized}},												-- 2 - romanized
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, extra}},									-- 3 - romanized (extra)
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {native}},												-- 4 - native
	{'<5p4n>(%s; %s)', {native, extra}},									-- 5 - (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, native}},									-- 6 - romanized (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {romanized, native, extra}},						-- 7 - romanized (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {english}},												-- 8 - english
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, extra}},									-- 9 - english (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, romanized}},								-- 10 - english (romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {english, romanized, extra}},						-- 11 - english (romanized, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, native}},									-- 12 - english (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {english, native, extra}},						-- 13 - english (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {english, native, romanized}},					-- 14 - english (native, romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s; %s)', {english, native, romanized, extra}},			-- 15 - english (native, romanized, extra)
}
</syntaxhighlight> [[User:JnpoJuwan|Juwan]] ([[User talk:JnpoJuwan|talk]]) 02:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::pinging @[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] as basically the sole contributor to this template after forking [[User:JnpoJuwan|Juwan]] ([[User talk:JnpoJuwan|talk]]) 02:04, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Have you [[Module:Nihongo/sandbox|sandboxed]] this?  There are four tables like the one above; if we are to change one, ought we not change the others?  Each of the supported templates has its own ~/testcases.
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I haven't, thank you for reminding me of that. [[User:JnpoJuwan|Juwan]] ([[User talk:JnpoJuwan|talk]]) 15:37, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] sandboxed at [[Module:Nihongo/sandbox]]. [[User:JnpoJuwan|Juwan]] ([[User talk:JnpoJuwan|talk]]) 06:54, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Please do not change established coding style.
:::::
:::::You haven't finished – unless {{tlx|nihongo}} and {{tlx|nihongo krt}} should not use semicolon separators.  If they are different for a reason, that reason must be documented.
:::::
:::::Update the inline comments to match the new punctuation.
:::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 12:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Hi {{u|DividedFrame|Brad}}, I see you reopened this request on 7 June. Is there any update? As far as I see, {{u|JnpoJuwan|Juwan}} unfortunately "pulled out" before addressing {{u|Trappist the monk}}'s notes. Would you like to complete the work? I'd do that myself, but per previous discussion it's not clear whether all occurrences should use semicolon separators or not. [[User:Est. 2021|Est. 2021]] ([[User talk:Est. 2021|talk]]&nbsp;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[[User:Est. 2021/contribs|contribs]]) 02:59, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{tq|it's not clear whether all occurrences should use semicolon separators or not.}}  If that is a true statement then it appears that there is no consensus for this change so I have disabled the edit request.
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 13:03, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::I'm not asking for a change, I'm asking for an option between a comma and a semicolon. Right now the template does not fully comply with [[WP:MOS]]. -- [[User:DividedFrame|Brad]] ([[User talk:DividedFrame|talk]]) 19:36, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
:::{{tq|I'm not asking for a change, I'm asking for an option between a comma and a semicolon.}}  Isn't the addition of a separator selector switch a {{em|change}} to the template/module code?
:::
:::{{tq|Right now the template does not fully comply with [[WP:MOS]].}}  The en.wiki manual of style encompasses some [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=-intitle%3A%2F%5BSs%5Dandbox%2F+prefix%3AWikipedia%3AManual+of+Style%2F&ns4=1 160 pages].  With which of those pages does this template fail to comply?
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 23:21, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::::An optional way to replace the colon with a semicolon would result in no changes to existing templates.
::::As noted above, from [[Nintendo Switch 2]]:
::::{{blockquote|Japanese: ニンテンドースイッチ2, Hepburn: Nintendō Suitchi Tsū, Nintendo branded the console in Japan using its English name.}}
::::Right now the text after the Hepburn romanization is separated by a comma, which should be a semicolon in this case (and all others that come to mind; anything not in the format ''Language: Text'' should be separated by a semicolon). See [[MOS:SEMICOLON]] and [[Comma splice]]. -- [[User:DividedFrame|Brad]] ([[User talk:DividedFrame|talk]]) 01:31, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::@{{u|DividedFrame|Brad}}: I finally took time to delve into this issue and update [[Module:Nihongo/sandbox]] myself. Please check the resulting templates ({{tlx|Nihongo/sandbox}}, {{tlx|Nihongo3/sandbox}}, {{tlx|Nihongo krt/sandbox}}, {{tlx|Nihongo foot/sandbox}}) and let me know if that's ok. [[User:Est. 2021|Est. 2021]] ([[User talk:Est. 2021|talk]]&nbsp;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[[User:Est. 2021/contribs|contribs]]) 11:01, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Est. 2021|Est. 2021]] Awesome, thanks so much! I quickly tested these out and they look good to me. This is exactly what I had in mind. -- [[User:DividedFrame|Brad]] ([[User talk:DividedFrame|talk]]) 23:21, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
{{od}}{{re|JnpoJuwan|label1=Juwan|DividedFrame|label2=Brad}} {{done|Completed}}. [[User:Est. 2021|Est. 2021]] ([[User talk:Est. 2021|talk]]&nbsp;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[[User:Est. 2021/contribs|contribs]]) 00:11, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Est. 2021|Est. 2021]] thank you very much! [[User:JnpoJuwan|Juwan]] ([[User talk:JnpoJuwan|talk]]) 16:58, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 22 January 2025 ==

{{edit template-protected|Module:Nihongo|answered=yes}}
{{difftext|<nowiki>local lead = 'yes' == args.lead;</nowiki>|<nowiki>local lead = require ('Module:yesno')(args.lead);</nowiki>}}

Before it was replaced with a mudule, it was used {{tl|yesno}} to check the lead ({{code|<nowiki>{{#ifeq:{{yesno|{{{lead|}}}}}|yes</nowiki>|wikitext}}), so it wasn't case-sensitive and values like {{para|lead|y}} or {{para|lead|true}} would work. Now, it'll only work if it is {{para|lead|yes}}. 

I can't say for sure, but there may have some pages created before the module implementation that use {{para|lead|Yes}} or any other expression supported by {{tlc|yesno}}. [[User:Vinickw|<span style="background:#C00;color:#FFF;border-radius:6px 0 0 6px;padding:2px 4px 2px 5px;">Vinickw</span>]]‍[[User talk:Vinickw|<span style="background:#D92;color:#FFF;border-radius:0 6px 6px 0;padding:2px 5px 2px 3px">✉</span>]] 14:31, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

:For the record, this was implemented in [[Special:Diff/1271112797]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 01:33, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== .tag in config of [[Module:Nihongo]] ==

I don't understand the reason for additional indirection for <code>tag = 'ja'</code> four times in the config. Presumably, it must always be exactly <code>'ja'</code> for [[Module:Nihongo]] (see [[Special:Permalink/1283304252#L-529|Module:Lang/data]]). I think it can be dropped: [[Special:Diff/1286458483/1286504678]]. For more clarity, a named string constant can be used instead of a literal: [[Special:Diff/1286458483/1286504838]].

If we are to leave this additional indirection through <code>cfg</code>, then I propose using it more consistently: [[Special:Diff/1286458483/1286459081]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 09:12, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:I've read through module's history more carefully and found where <code>tag</code> in <code>cfg</code> came from. The module used to also support templates for Chinese until [[Special:Diff/1245874224]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 09:15, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
:
:Yeah, because of {{tlx|hanyu}}.  In reality, all of <code>cfg</code>, <code>err_cat</code>, and <code>err_msg</code> tables can be replaced with simpler code.  None of those tables are required any longer and the <code>cfg</code> tables are mostly redundant to each other.
:
:But the module works as-is, so I set it aside until some sort of significant change to the module was needed.
:
:Using explicit <code>ja</code> language tags in the code seems to me to be best because this template/module is <code>ja</code>-specific.  As for the other data in the tables, those should be kept more-or-less where they are so that users of the module on other-language wikis only have to translate those strings in a single place.
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 12:55, 20 April 2025 (UTC)