View source for Talk:Veterans Day

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==Edit Request: Irrelevant and Opinionated Segment==
While I do not oppose the idea of a ferdural holiday for elections, I do oppose the placing of a political talking point in an article about [https://aveteransday.com/ Veterans Day]. 

"Several commentators have noted the irony of Election Day being a regular working day, while Veterans Day, which typically falls the following week, is a federal holiday. Many people have called for the holidays to be merged, so citizens can have a day off to vote. This would be seen as a way to honor voting by exercising democratic rights.[9][10]"

This segment and its citations should be removed as it has nothing to do with the observation of Veterans Day nor does it have any direct relevance for the holiday itself other than an unstated and undefined reference to "soldiers dying for the right to vote".  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/210.172.200.126|210.172.200.126]] ([[User talk:210.172.200.126#top|talk]]) 00:09, 14 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I COMPLETELY agree.  Why bring it up in an article describing Veterans Day? Because they are both in November?  It honestly seems like it was inserted because someone has an agenda about making election day a holiday and for no other relevant reason.  Create, or edit and existing page, about making election day about holiday.  Please, somebody edit this by removing this political insert.  This is supposed to be an encyclopedia article on Veterans Day.  I guaruntee you won't see this point being made in the Encyclopedia Britannica article on Veteran's Day (if there is such an article) because it is simply not appropriate here.[[Special:Contributions/173.244.48.78|173.244.48.78]] ([[User talk:173.244.48.78|talk]]) 10:58, 30 May 2017 (UTC)



In addition, I believe it is incorrect. It makes no sense to "honor voting".  If this were to make any sense it would say "honor veterans".  However, that is moot if this is removed which I agree it should be.

==No Mention of Attributive==
The article states: the United States Department of Veterans Affairs Web site states that the attributive (no apostrophe) rather than the possessive case is the official spelling..."

The DVA website says nothing at all about attribute case -- there is no such case, for a start.

The case is called 'genitive' and it includes both possession and attribution.

The DVA website states only that the holiday is called Veterans Day instead of Veteran's Day or Veterans' Day because the day does not belong to Veterans.

In fact, the Act of Congress that renamed Armistice Day actually renamed it *All* Veterans Day.  We later dropped the 'All' part.

But there is absolutely nothing on the website about the spelling being attributive rather than possessive.  So the material about it being attributive should be removed.
[[Special:Contributions/73.162.218.153|73.162.218.153]] ([[User talk:73.162.218.153|talk]]) 22:53, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2014 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
The National Veterans Award was also created in 1954. Congressman Rees of Kansas recieved the first National Veterans Award in Birmingham, Alabama for his support offering legislation to make Veterans Day a federal holiday. 
<!-- End request -->
[[User:RevRobtheRR|RevRobtheRR]] ([[User talk:RevRobtheRR|talk]]) 20:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


That's it!  Received is the correct spelling...
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 20:49, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

== Idea that Wilson declared a first Armistice Day in November 1919 "proclamation" is mostly a myth. ==

According to a New York Times article published on 8 November 1919 entitled "President Prepares a message to the People for Armistice Day", "President Wilson today wrote a message to the American People which will be made public on Armistice Day, Nov. 11."  Other contemporaneous and official sources call this same statement a "greeting" or an "address".  Even though Wilson routinely issued "proclamations", this was not one of them.  

See:
http://aveteransday.com  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rdritik|Rdritik]] ([[User talk:Rdritik#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rdritik|contribs]]) 07:12, 6 October 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9A0CE2DC123FE432A2575BC0A9679D946896D6CF

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2209&dat=19191011&id=XRVAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XaQMAAAAIBAJ&pg=7270,2198280&hl=en

https://books.google.com/books?id=WYg_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA8803&lpg=PA8803&dq=%22a+year+ago+today+our+enemies+laid+down+their+arms%22&source=bl&ots=SAyvxEs4yr&sig=tkkBHzQnk_V0Cnessu7W0Xyl6Ag&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAWoVChMIrYvdjcOJyQIViHgmCh1ytwxt#v=onepage&q=%22a%20year%20ago%20today%20our%20enemies%20laid%20down%20their%20arms%22&f=false

Compare the "Mother's Day" Proclamation of 1914 and its unambiguous formality and intent:
http://www.archives.gov/historical-docs/todays-doc/?dod-date=509

Obviously, one way or another, the notion of "Armistice Day" was already well-established before the Wilson's message, since the message itself and the pre-message press refer to it simply and casually as "Armistice Day".  Furthermore his "message" or "address" was not only not a formal proclamation but it did not in any way "declare" or propose to create any holiday or new day of remembrance but simply speaks about the one year anniversary of the  cessation of hostilities and what the occasion already known as "Armistice Day" means to Americas. The full test of the address demonstrates this:

    "ADDRESS TO FELLOW-COUNTRYMEN     The White House, November 11, 1919.   A year ago today our enemies laid down their arms in accordance with an armistice which rendered them impotent to renew hostilities, and gave to the world an assured opportunity to reconstruct its shattered order and to work out in peace a new and juster set of inter national relations. The soldiers and people of the European Allies had fought and endured for more than four years to uphold the barrier of civilization against the aggressions of armed force. We ourselves had been in the conflict something more than a year and a half. - With splendid forgetfulness of mere personal concerns, we re modeled our industries, concentrated our financial resources, increased our agricultural output, and assembled a great army, so that at the last our power was a decisive factor in the victory. We were able to bring the vast resources, material and moral, of a great and free people to the assistance of our associates in Europe who had suffered and sacrificed without limit in the cause for which we fought. Out of this victory there arose new possibilities of political freedom and economic concert. The war showed us the strength of great nations acting together for high purposes, and the victory of arms foretells the enduring conquests which can be made in peace when nations act justly and in furtherance of the common interests of men. To us in America the reflections of Armistice Day will be filled with - solemn pride in the heroism of those who died in the country’s service, and with gratitude for the victory, both because of the thing from which it has freed us and because of the opportunity it has given America to show her sympathy with peace and justice in the councils of nations. WOODROW WILSON."

Thus the purported "Proclamation" of Armistice Day by Wilson in 1919 is essentially a myth.

00:03, 12 November 2015 (UTC)  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Criticality|Criticality]] ([[User talk:Criticality|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Criticality|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2016 ==
{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}

The caption on the photo in the main infobox at the top-right of the article currently reads:
"
Joseph F. Ambrose, an 86-year-old World War I veteran, attends the dedication day parade for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in 1982, holding the flag that covered the casket of his son, who was killed in the Korean War.
"

Since Joseph F. Ambrose's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_F._Ambrose Wikipedia page] and [http://jolietlibrary.org/content/1988-obituary-index this source] linked to from his Wikipedia page say that he died in 1988, the caption can be misinterpreted to mean that he is currently 86-years-old. Note his [https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K6DH-FQ3 date of birth here]. 

I propose changing the caption to the following:
"
[[Joseph_F._Ambrose|Joseph F. Ambrose]], a [[World_War_I|World War I]] veteran, attends the dedication day parade for the [[Vietnam_Veterans_Memorial|Vietnam Veterans Memorial]] in 1982 at 86 years old, holding the flag that covered the casket of his son, who was killed in the [[Korean_War|Korean War]].
"

Deleting any information about his age in this caption would also work.

I apologise for any mistakes I may have made; I'm new to editing (obviously).

[[User:Blueinkblink|Blueinkblink]] ([[User talk:Blueinkblink|talk]]) 02:40, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

:{{done}} &nbsp;'''''[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:85%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">Paine</span>]]'''''&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>u</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Paine Ellsworth|<small>c</small>]]&nbsp;<small>06:21, 11 November 2016 (UTC)</small>

== Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2016 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
In the article there is a mistake made in the year that Veterans Day was first celebrated it says the year 1918 but it is the year of 1919.


[[User:Sophisticatednyny|Sophisticatednyny]] ([[User talk:Sophisticatednyny|talk]]) 21:36, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Where does it say that? It says 1919 due to the war ending in 1918.  🔯 [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup style="color:Green;">🍸[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color:Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 16:17, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

[United States Statutes at Large, Volume 117, 108th Congress, 1st Session]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov]

 
EMPORIA, KANSAS--FOUNDING CITY OF VETERANS DAY
<>

Whereas in 1953, Alvin J. King of Emporia, Kansas, proposed that
Armistice Day be changed to Veterans Day to recognize and honor all
veterans from all wars and conflicts;

Whereas in 1953, Veterans Day was first organized and celebrated in
Emporia, Kansas;

Whereas although Alvin King was only 15 years old when the United States
went to war in 1917 and never served in the Armed Forces, he had a
deep respect for veterans;

Whereas Alvin King's stepson, John Cooper, whom he had raised, was
killed in action in Belgium during World War II while serving with
Rifle Company B, 137th Infantry Regiment;

Whereas after World War II, Alvin King developed friendships with the
surviving members of Rifle Company B, 137th Infantry Regiment;


[[Page 2959]]
117 STAT. 2959


Whereas in the early 1950s, Alvin King suggested either creating a
special day to honor all veterans or adapting Armistice Day so that
it was dedicated to all veterans since, at that time, Armistice Day
honored the veterans of World War I;

Whereas by 1953, the community of Emporia, Kansas, had raised enough
money to send Alvin King and his wife, Gertrude, to Washington, D.C.
to garner support for an official veterans day;

Whereas Alvin King had a friend and supporter in Representative Ed Rees
of Emporia, Kansas, who was strongly in favor of King's idea and
said ``it would give the holiday a new meaning and more widespread
patriotic observance'';

Whereas on June 1, 1954, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was raised
in Kansas, signed into law the Act proclaiming November 11 as
Veterans Day (Public Law 380 of the 83rd Congress);

Whereas on October 8, 1954, President Eisenhower issued a presidential
proclamation concerning Veterans Day in 1954 in which he stated,
``On that day let us solemnly remember the sacrifices of all those
who fought so valiantly, on the seas, in the air, and on foreign
shores, to preserve our heritage of freedom, and let us reconsecrate
ourselves to the task of promoting an enduring peace so that their
efforts shall not have been in vain''; and

Whereas the first nationwide observance of Veterans Day was on November
11, 1954: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring),
That Congress hereby--
(1) encourages Americans to demonstrate their support for
veterans on Veterans Day by treating that day as a special day
of remembrance;
(2) declares Emporia, Kansas, to be the founding city of
Veterans Day;
(3) recognizes Alvin J. King, of Emporia, Kansas, as the
founder of Veterans Day; and
(4) recognizes that Representative Ed Rees, of Emporia,
Kansas, was instrumental in the efforts to enact into law the
observance of Veterans Day.

Agreed to October 31, 2003.

[[User:FromEmporiaKS|FromEmporiaKS]] ([[User talk:FromEmporiaKS|talk]]) 03:21, 7 February 2017 (UTC)<ref>US Government Publishing Office 117 Stat. 2958</ref>
{{Reflist-talk}}
The first Veterans Day took place in Emporia, Kansas a full year ahead of the Representative Rees introduced the bill to Congress. The source of this information is a first person account by my late friend, Tom Tholen, who help plan the event with Al King and his friends. A printed program of the day's event is available at the Lyon County History Center, Emporia, Kansas, 66801.[[User:FromEmporiaKS|FromEmporiaKS]] ([[User talk:FromEmporiaKS|talk]]) 03:21, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

-  -  - 
- - - 
[[User:Joetho|Joetho]] ([[User talk:Joetho|talk]]) 23:18, 10 November 2019 (UTC)It has been ages since I have edited a wikipedia page (and I will relearn how to do it properly before I propose any edits, I promise) ...but the "History" section of this page appears to be calling my name. Al King lived across the street from us in Emporia KS and the information from inactive/former user "FromEmporiaKs" is true and will be easy to cite. Tom Tholen is my deceased father. I will be working on this, and any help or corrections are welcome. [[User:Joetho|Joetho]] ([[User talk:Joetho|talk]]) 23:18, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2017 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
Not all veterans of the military are honored on Veteran's Day. Proclamation 3071—Veteran's Day, 1954 indicates "Veteran's that fought on the seas, in the air, and on Foreign shores". It doesn't say "All that Served" in the military because not all that were in the military were in a war on foreign shores. To honor people that didn't fight brings dishonor to the day.

See for yourself.  
Now, Therefore, I, Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States of America, do hereby call upon all of our citizens to observe Thursday, November 11, 1954, as Veterans Day. On that day let us solemnly remember the sacrifices of all those who fought so valiantly, on the seas, in the air, and on foreign shores, to preserve our heritage of freedom, and let us reconsecrate ourselves to the task of promoting an enduring peace so that their efforts shall not have been in vain. I also direct the appropriate officials of the Government to arrange for the display of the flag of the United States on all public buildings on Veterans Day. [[Special:Contributions/170.202.22.2|170.202.22.2]] ([[User talk:170.202.22.2|talk]]) 20:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.<!-- Template:ESp --> &mdash;<span style="color:#808080">[[User:Kuyabribri|'''KuyaBriBri''']]</span><sup><span style="color:#008080">[[User_Talk:Kuyabribri|''Talk'']]</span></sup> 21:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2018 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
alslo check http://aveteransday.com [[User:Rdritik|Rdritik]] ([[User talk:Rdritik|talk]]) 07:14, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
:{{notdone}} Not sure what it is you want done here. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:38, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2019 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
How Donald Trump saved the Veterans' Day Parade

I think it's important to note how Donald Trump funded and saved the parade for decades to come. [[Special:Contributions/38.112.182.5|38.112.182.5]] ([[User talk:38.112.182.5|talk]]) 15:45, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> &mdash;<span style="color:#808080">[[User:Kuyabribri|'''KuyaBriBri''']]</span><sup><span style="color:#008080">[[User_Talk:Kuyabribri|''Talk'']]</span></sup> 16:33, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

== 11-11-11 ==

Hey all- should "11-11-11" be displayed somewhere on the page, maybe in parentheses? [https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/Horizons/2011/1111/Veterans-Day-Why-America-chose-November-11][https://www.positivelynaperville.com/2020/11/11/happy-veterans-day-11-11-11/117106] We have a redirect [[11/11/11]]. [[User:Geographyinitiative|Geographyinitiative]] ([[User talk:Geographyinitiative|talk]]) 20:02, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
:The lead states: {{tq|Major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918.}} Is that not sufficient? [[User:NedFausa|NedFausa]] ([[User talk:NedFausa|talk]]) 20:06, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
:: {{ping|NedFausa}} Thanks for your reply. To me, it is not self evident that English speakers would naturally write 11-11-11 or 11/11/11 based on the passage you just quoted. I would think that 11-11-11 referred to November 11, 1911 or 2011 if I didn't know better- cf. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=11/11/11&diff=410666857&oldid=410666383] where the user says "11/11/11 takes place every hundred years. In 2011, the 11th November falls on a Friday. There will be a few known global events taking place on 11/11/11". For this reason, it seems like there could be content worthy of a parenthetical mention of some kind in the body of the article. [[User:Geographyinitiative|Geographyinitiative]] ([[User talk:Geographyinitiative|talk]]) 20:10, 11 November 2020 (UTC) '''(modified)'''
== Sources and Citations ==
Hello! I am hoping to improve this article by citing information and adding reliable sources and noticed that the following sentences weren't cited. I tried to see where the information came from and it led me to an opinion blog by a lawyer. This information is quoted directly from the source: "Another military holiday that also occurs in May, Armed Forces Day, honors those currently serving in the U.S. military. Additionally, Women Veterans Day is recognized by a growing number of U.S. states that specifically honors women who have served in the U.S. military." Since this information came from a blog, I think that it should be deleted and replaced with similar information from a reliable source. [[User:StudiousBear23|StudiousBear23]] ([[User talk:StudiousBear23|talk]]) 13:21, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi all! As I keep adding citations where they are needed I have found a lot of the information is being directly quoted from unreliable sources like blogs and random articles. For instance, the following formation came from a news platform called heavy.com : "Non-essential federal government offices are closed. No mail is delivered. All federal workers are paid for the holiday; those who are required to work on the holiday sometimes receive holiday pay for that day in addition to their wages". The original source says "On Veterans Day, non-essential federal government offices are closed. There is no mail is delivered, and all federal workers are paid for the holiday. Any federal workers who are required to work on the holiday will receive holiday pay for that day in addition to their wages." This information needs to be rewritten as it is almost word-for-word. [[User:StudiousBear23|StudiousBear23]] ([[User talk:StudiousBear23|talk]]) 13:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)


The last sentence in the history section is a direct quote from A Stamp A Day website. "While the legal holiday remains on November 11, if that date happens to be on a Saturday or Sunday, then organizations that formally observe the holiday will normally be closed on the adjacent Friday or Monday, respectively". This is quoted almost word-for-word. This is the website link: https://stampaday.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/veterans-day/ [[User:StudiousBear23|StudiousBear23]] ([[User talk:StudiousBear23|talk]]) 15:36, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2021 - grammatical mistake in 1st sentence ==

{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
The first sentence of the article states that Veterans Day is "...for honoring military veterans who served in the United States Armed Forces (that were discharged under conditions other than dishonorable)."

The first word of the parenthetical clause is a relative pronoun referring to veterans. Veterans are people, not objects, and the word veterans is a plural group of individual people; both cases dictate replacing "that" with "who" so that the clause in parentheses reads "military veterans ... who were discharged ..." [[User:Revcor632|Revcor632]] ([[User talk:Revcor632|talk]]) 18:23, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 18:31, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
:Thank you [[Special:Contributions/2601:380:8201:24C0:BD54:3798:80BB:BDDA|2601:380:8201:24C0:BD54:3798:80BB:BDDA]] ([[User talk:2601:380:8201:24C0:BD54:3798:80BB:BDDA|talk]]) 03:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

== Kurt Vonnegut’s Breakfast Of Champions ==

In the famous American Writer’s book of the 1960’s America, Kurt Vonnegut in a dialogur between one of the characters in the book, with a certain truck driver, the two end up having a quick dialogue about American veterans and the famous Veterans Day. [[User:The Africanstar Review|The Africanstar Review]] ([[User talk:The Africanstar Review|talk]]) 08:59, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2023 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
It is stated that Woodrow Wilson issued a message on the First Armistice Day in 1919.
In fact, the actual first Armistice Day was when the treaty was signed in 1918, ending World War One.

Therefore, the first paragraph in the history section should be edited to indicate that it was the second Armistice Day, or the first Annual observance of Armistice, to honor the veterans that served, and remember the ones gave it all and didn't return alive. [[User:CodexA1|CodexA1]] ([[User talk:CodexA1|talk]]) 00:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> <span class="nowrap">—[[User:TechnoSquirrel69|TechnoSquirrel69]]</span> ([[User talk:TechnoSquirrel69|sigh]]) 04:42, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2024 ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Veterans Day|answered=yes}}
Armistice Day
In his Armistice Day address to Congress, Wilson was sensitive to the psychological toll of the lean War years: "Hunger does not breed reform; it breeds madness," he remarked.[16] As Veterans Day and the birthday of the United States Marine Corps (November 10, 1775) are only one day apart, that branch of the Armed Forces customarily observes both occasions as a 96-hour liberty period,[IAW DoDI 1327 06, June 16, 2009 Change 5, 25, Aug 2023 Enclosure 2, Para 3. [[User:Dbt1057|Dbt1057]] ([[User talk:Dbt1057|talk]]) 16:16, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done''': it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 13:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

== Full page protection needed ==

Based upon the remarks of Trump, this page should be fully protected now before it is defaced by "Victory Day" edits. [[User:Monsieurdl|<span style="color:#0000C8;font-family: vivaldi"><span style="font-size:medium;">'''Monsieur<span style="color:#DC143C;">dl</span>'''</span></span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Monsieurdl|mon talk]]</sup> 12:09, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:Articles aren't protected preemptively, only in response to ongoing vandalism. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 15:27, 2 May 2025 (UTC)