View source for Talk:Trials of Mana

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{{ref ideas
|1=Consoles+ 049 - Page 140 (review)
|2=https://blog.us.playstation.com/2019/09/04/how-trials-of-mana-reimagines-an-rpg-classic-youve-never-played/
|3=https://twinfinite.net/2019/08/trials-of-mana-no-multiplayer/
|4=https://www.rpgsite.net/interview/8642-mana-series-interview-and-hands-off-demo-at-e3-2019-we-chat-with-series-producers-about-re-releasing-and-remaking-a-classic-series
|5=http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/06/feature_behind_the_scenes_on_collection_of_mana_and_trials_of_mana
|6=https://www.famitsu.com/news/202005/02197804.html
|7=https://archive.org/details/satellaview-tsushin-1995-08-images/page/n9/mode/2up
|8=https://archive.org/details/the-super-famicom-1995-no.-13-june-21-1995/page/34/mode/2up
|9=https://archive.org/details/jugemu-magazine-1995-09-september-600dpi-ozidual/page/n108/mode/1up
|10=https://archive.org/details/jugemu-magazine-1995-10-october-600dpi-ozidual/page/n17/mode/2up (interview)
|11=https://archive.org/details/screwattack-magazine/ScrewAttack%20Magazine%20%2316/page/n150/mode/1up
}}
{{archives}}

== Name change ==

I understand that name changes are not always made when a game is come to be known as an old name for so long (ie Mother vs. EarthBound Beginnings). In this case however, with the significance of the localized version renaming the game and the remake doing the same, I feel that it would be best to get in front of it and adjust to what will likely come to be the more common name for a fair few people. Plus, being a Japanese name, it feels like a different situation than Mother. - [[User:Abryn|Bryn]] <small>[[User talk:Abryn|(talk)]]</small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Abryn|(contributions)]]</small> 22:42, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
:W-well then - [[User:Abryn|Bryn]] <small>[[User talk:Abryn|(talk)]]</small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Abryn|(contributions)]]</small> 22:46, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
::I disagree- this game has been known, in Japanese and in English, as "Seiken Densetsu 3", for 24 years, with hundreds of sources calling it such- I don't think that a collection release under a different name for 1 day takes precedence over that. --'''[[User:PresN|<span style="color:green">Pres</span>]][[User talk:PresN|<span style="color:blue">N</span>]]''' 04:36, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
::: Yeah, that needed a formal Requested Move to move the page. (It wasn't Abryn who moved the page though). [[User:Hillcrest98|Hill Crest&#39;s]] '''''[[User:Hillcrest98|WikiLaser!]]''''' ('''''[[User talk:Hillcrest98|BOOM!]]''''')  11:53, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
::::Yes, I am a good girl who loves consensus uwu. - [[User:Abryn|Bryn]] <small>[[User talk:Abryn|(talk)]]</small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Abryn|(contributions)]]</small> 19:07, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
:::::Haha, just for that, I'm going to leave it while posting at WT:VG, instead of moving it back first. --'''[[User:PresN|<span style="color:green">Pres</span>]][[User talk:PresN|<span style="color:blue">N</span>]]''' 19:59, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Changing this article's name was a colossal fuck-up, if I may use the scientific term. Most obviously, it was unilaterally moved, which never should have been allowed in the first place (By user "Richiekim", not the user who started this discussion here). But moreover, the discussion to move it back seems to be populated by many ignorant people saying things like "WP:USEENGLISH", and "A Japanese name shouldn't be used when an official English name exists", and some belief that Wikipedia is "supposed to use the official name". So, actually looking into this guideline, apparently NOTHING in Wikipedia's guidelines supports these people's claims, and in fact many guidelines directly contradict their assumptions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English-language_sources)#Established_usage_in_English-language_sources states:
- "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject that is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_titles#English-language_titles - "On the English Wikipedia, article titles are written using the English language. However, it must be remembered that the English language contains many loan words and phrases taken from other languages. If a word or phrase (originally taken from some other language) is commonly used by English-language sources, it can be considered to be an English-language word or phrase (example: coup d'état)." 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Foreign_language
- "Wikipedia's naming conventions recommend the use of English. However, where the subject of an article is best known in English-language sources by its non-English name (e.g., Taj Mahal, Champs-Élysées), the non-English title may be appropriate for the article."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_titles#Use_commonly_recognizable_names
- "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's official name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources)"

But despite all these actual facts and rules, the conclusion was that a "majority of editors have determined" that the overwhelmingly more popular common name for this game should not be used. (And while I absolutely have my objections to this system of "We only collect votes from a handful of people who happen to stumble upon this talk page during the period of a few weeks", and "Votes that are blatantly ignorant and misinformed are just as valid as factual ones, cannot be thrown out, and may easily outnumber the intelligent ones", I realize that this actually IS Wikipedia policy, so what can you do?)

If anyone wants to actually get a real vote started to fix this fuck-up, I'd highly recommend it. Though unfortunately, as is wont to happen when Wikipedia has overstepped its bounds and made hasty decisions, a lot of current sources may now be using the name on this article because they read it directly from this page as their first search result. So now that needs to be taken into consideration too, and will probably be a huge problem.

And in general, it seems the common trend for game re-releases on Wikipedia is to just list the re-release and its new name under a new sub-section for it. Like so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_Alpha_3#Home_versions  I'd assume this is also Wikipedia policy on how to handle this, and that the existence of a later release called "Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX" on the PSP or "Trials of Mana" on the Switch, does not mean we erase the name used by the original release. Especially when we are directly talking about the original game. Nobody looking for Super Famicom games will ever find anything named "Trials of Mana". But also, I'm done looking up policies for today, so I'll just leave it with the fact that this is both commonly done already, and is a wise idea objectively. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:46B0:EB30:C8FE:4BCE:30D6:FE67|2600:1700:46B0:EB30:C8FE:4BCE:30D6:FE67]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:46B0:EB30:C8FE:4BCE:30D6:FE67|talk]]) 14:12, 21 February 2025 (UTC)
:What you're missing here is that Seiken Densetsu 3 IS Tirals of Mana, in the same way Seiken Densetu 2 is Secret of Mana. The fact that it didn't get its English title until decades later doesn't change the fact. It's not a name change, it just never HAD an English name until the Switch release. [[User:Melodia|♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫]] ([[User talk:Melodia|talk]]) 06:26, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

== Trials of Mana remake article ==

I guess I'll start a second discussion! I also think that a remake article would be valuable, seeing as how this one is already quite proficient and how drastic a remake it is. - [[User:Abryn|Bryn]] <small>[[User talk:Abryn|(talk)]]</small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Abryn|(contributions)]]</small> 22:48, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
: What should the remake's article title be? [[Trials of Mana (2020 video game)]]? [[User:Hillcrest98|Hill Crest&#39;s]] '''''[[User:Hillcrest98|WikiLaser!]]''''' ('''''[[User talk:Hillcrest98|BOOM!]]''''')  23:49, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
::That's what I was thinking, yeah. I'd take a crack at it but I'm a little bogged down by things. If no one else does, I will make sure to check it out when I can. - [[User:Abryn|Bryn]] <small>[[User talk:Abryn|(talk)]]</small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Abryn|(contributions)]]</small> 01:09, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
:::I like the idea of this as a separate article, especially as the development continues. It could just be put on [[Trials of Mana]] when it's created, as it will be the primary topic. ~[[User:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#005080">Maplestrip/Mable</span>]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#700090">chat</span>]]) 20:38, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
::::I dunno if I agree with that. I think it'd be appropriate for ToM to be about the original release, given its significance. If, of course, the article stays with this title. - [[User:Abryn|Bryn]] <small>[[User talk:Abryn|(talk)]]</small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Abryn|(contributions)]]</small> 20:50, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
:::::Early signs are that this article will stay at ToM, so the remake will have the be at something else... based on prior Mana precedent, I think it's likely this remake will be able to support its own article. --'''[[User:PresN|<span style="color:green">Pres</span>]][[User talk:PresN|<span style="color:blue">N</span>]]''' 21:07, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Whatever happens, I consider how would one cite an interview made only available on video? There's an interview on Gamespot where a Square Enix representative reveals that the game's original composer is back to handle the music for the remake. [https://www.gamespot.com/videos/trials-of-mana-reinventing-a-classic-e3-2019/2300-6450083/ The interview is here, with the reveal at the 8 minute 45 second mark]. [[Special:Contributions/98.206.136.4|98.206.136.4]] ([[User talk:98.206.136.4|talk]]) 16:26, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
:That's not a problem; after all, some citations aren't even easily accessible (like magazine citations). - [[User:Abryn|Bryn]] <small>[[User talk:Abryn|(talk)]]</small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Abryn|(contributions)]]</small> 17:40, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Requested move 7 March 2020 ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''

The result of the move request was: There is '''consensus against moving the article back to SD3'''. These situations are always tricky and unique and it can be difficult to weigh the historical title used for decades versus the more recent localized English title ([[Earthbound Beginnings]] has it even worse) but this discussion makes it clear a large majority of editors have determined that at this point in time, the better title for this topic is "Trials of Mana". <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small> {{#if:|<small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small>|{{#if:|<small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small>}}}} <span style="background:black;padding:1px 4px">[[User:Salvidrim!|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:white">Ben&nbsp;·&nbsp;Salvidrim!</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Salvidrim|<span style="color:white">&#9993;</span>]]</span> 12:21, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
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[[:Trials of Mana]] → {{no redirect|Seiken Densetsu 3}} – This article about the 1995 Famicom game, not its 2019 rerelease, or its upcoming remake, so it should have never been moved to Trials of Mana. Looking at the sourcing used in this very article, they all continue to use the name Seiken Densetsu 3 when writing about the original release, the upcoming remake, and the collection that was released. This is after all how English sourcing has referred to it for over 20 years. More recent reliable sources continue referring to the game by this name, and use Trials of Mana to refer exclusively to the rerelease/upcoming remake. Examples of this include: [https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/03/video_switchs_trials_of_mana_remake_gets_brand_new_gameplay_trailer Nintendo Life], [https://www.gematsu.com/2020/02/trials-of-mana-details-training-system-abilities-appearance-changes-seeds-and-more Gematsu], [https://www.destructoid.com/don-t-sleep-on-trials-of-mana-square-enix-s-other-april-remake-582520.phtml Destructoid]. From this, I think it is safe to say that the [[WP:COMMONNAME]] is still Seiken Densetsu 3. [[User:AlternateRT|Alt]] ([[User talk:AlternateRT|talk]]) 06:49, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Per the nomination. My searches and the references in the article still mostly refer to the game as Seiken Densetsu 3, because unlike Secret of Mana, it didn't release outside of Japan until the compilation came. The remake is referred to as Trials of Mana (for which an article can be created once that comes out). [[User:Jovanmilic97|Jovanmilic97]] ([[User talk:Jovanmilic97|talk]]) 11:43, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support''': If someone makes an article about the remake then the remake page can have the title ''Trials of Mana'' without any disambiguation. [[User:OceanHok|OceanHok]] ([[User talk:OceanHok|talk]]) 18:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' the game is famous for not being localized so it never had a localized name. That doesnt mean we should stick with the original title because that's what people have been referring it to. Trials of Mana is still the official localized name now. And first time readers who never heard of this game will most likely get confused why wikipedia opted for the japanese title when the official english title exist: here are examples where reviewers are now referring the original game as simply trials of mana. [http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/51035/collection-of-mana-review-switch][https://kotaku.com/collection-of-mana-is-3-amazing-games-with-not-enough-e-1835460264] [https://hardcoregamer.com/2019/06/17/review-collection-of-mana/349993/] and [https://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Collection_of_Mana/]. Granted they initiate to clarify that this was SD3 but they continue to keep the status quo of Trials.
*So there are reviews now recognizing the third entry as "Trials". We should treat this similar to  [[Story of Seasons]] / [[Harvest Moon]] and give it time. I believe the confusion exists because both the port and the remake were announced at the same time and there wasnt enough to clarify properly. Trials of Mana is the official name for both the port and the remake.[[User:Blue Pumpkin Pie|<b style="color: #4682B4">Blue</b> <b style="color: #20B2AA">Pumpkin</b> <b style="color: #DAA520">Pie</b>]] <sup>[[User talk:Blue Pumpkin Pie|Chat]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Pumpkin Pie|Contribs]]</sup> 19:23, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': This game has been given the official translated title ''Trials of Mana'' in a direct official port as part of the Collection of Mana from Square Enix themselves. It's not just the remake, but the original that's been given this name. I think the lead covers it as well as can be done. Maybe rephrase it to "known prior to 2019 as ''Seiken Densetsu 3''" to give a timeline to players. Sidelining its official localised title isn't right. --[[User:ProtoDrake|ProtoDrake]] ([[User talk:ProtoDrake|talk]]) 19:33, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as per ProtoDrake's statements. Square Enix gave it the official name of ''Trials of Mana'' when they ported the original game to the ''Collection of Mana'' and the reviews have recognized it as the official title. [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 08:49, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': I see both sides of the debate, but I lean towards keeping it at Trials of Mana per ProtoDrake's statement. A similar situation happened with Mother/EarthBound Beginnings a few years ago, but they differ slightly to me because the original/Japanese title isn't in English (Mother is still an English word). ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 09:52, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per [[WP:USEENGLISH]]. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 14:25, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' &ndash; I am convinced primarily by the sources provided by AlternateRT, which refer to ''Seiken Densetsu 3'' as such without even mentioning its US rerelease at all. "The 1995 game" etc. Even some of the sources linked by Blue Pumpkin Pie suggest that ''Seiken Densetsu 3'' is still the common name for the game, with lines such as {{talk quote inline|"What’s Trials of Mana? It’s the new official U.S. name for Seiken Densetsu 3, the Super Nintendo sequel"}} and {{talk quote inline|"Trials of Mana, the very first officially localised version of Seiken Densetsu 3."}}. This is not to mention all the historic sources we have on this game, like the ''Retro Gamer'' issue I have in my room which has "Seiken Densetsu 3" all over its front cover. To me, it seems like "Trials of Mana" is just a specific version, a specific release, of ''Seiken Densetsu 3''. Moreover, this will help out greatly with disambiguation with the remake coming out. I don't see any reason for this article to be titled "Trials of Mana" to be honest; I personally was barely aware this English-language release of the game even existed... ~[[User:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#005080">Maplestrip/Mable</span>]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#700090">chat</span>]]) 09:21, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*The sources provided have since changed the status quo and continue to refer to the game as "ToM". I dont consider it common name to initiate the distinction. And it makes sense to clarify what Trials of Mana because we've never had that game. This is the original game. It just released years later in a different console. Doesnt change the fact that Seiken Densetsu 3 = Trials of  Mana. So the remake renamed as Trials of mana just adds to the confusion. Reliable sources will treat the name for both the port and the remake while wikipedia only gives it to the remake.[[User:Blue Pumpkin Pie|<b style="color: #4682B4">Blue</b> <b style="color: #20B2AA">Pumpkin</b> <b style="color: #DAA520">Pie</b>]] <sup>[[User talk:Blue Pumpkin Pie|Chat]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Pumpkin Pie|Contribs]]</sup> 09:47, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::We don't have an article on the port. We have an article on the 1995 game. I would consider the 2019 port technically a separate topic. ~[[User:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#005080">Maplestrip/Mable</span>]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#700090">chat</span>]]) 09:58, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
:::That's a bizzare statement. The very definition of a port is that it's the same game on a new platform. The 2019 release IS The 1995 game. How in the world could it be a separate topic? [[User:Melodia|♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫]] ([[User talk:Melodia|talk]]) 12:29, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Eh, it’s getting a bit confusing with some of the terminology and timeframes, but to clarify for them, the game received a 2019 English language basic port through the compilation release ''Collection of Mana'', and is receiving a full blown, radically redone remake in April 2020. It’s being called ''Trials of Mana'' for both, FYI. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 22:14, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Per [[WP:USEENGLISH]]. A Japanese name shouldn't be used when an official English name exists.<sub><small>[[User:Zxcvbnm|ZXCVBNM]] ([[User Talk:Zxcvbnm|TALK]])</small></sub> 12:50, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose move.''' By this point, it appears the localized name is the common name. '''[[User:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">O.N.R.</span>]]'''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 13:27, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*<s>'''Support''' SD3 was released a quarter-century ago for the Super Famicom and has never had an English title until last year. The 2020 game should either be a separate article or have a dedicated article section with its own infobox. "Trials of Mana" is not the localized title of the SF game considering it was never localized; it's the title of the remake. Moving "Seiken Densetsu 3" to "Trials of Mana" is akin to moving [[Final Fantasy VII]] to [[Final Fantasy VII Remake]]. [[User:Corporal|Corporal]] ([[User talk:Corporal|talk]]) 05:12, 18 March 2020 (UTC)</s>
*:Except that it's literally the localized title of the original game, released last year in the Collection of Mana. [[User:Melodia|♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫]] ([[User talk:Melodia|talk]]) 05:17, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
*::I missed that the SF game WAS actually localized and released in a compilation, so most of my argument was based on a false premise :) Still not sure that it should be moved, but the remake will still need to be a separate article once there's enough information on it. [[User:Corporal|Corporal]] ([[User talk:Corporal|talk]]) 05:21, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I was pinged here a while ago but never got around to this until now. I think [[WP:USEENGLISH]] applies. [[User:TheJoebro64|<small style="color:red">JOE</small>]][[User talk:TheJoebro64|<small>BRO</small>]][[Special:Contributions/TheJoebro64|<span style="color:#D18719">64</span>]] 17:52, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I suggest the page would be split into two different pages, one about the original 1995 game, and the 2020 game, like how there are separate pages for the 1998 game ''Resident Evil 2'' and its 2019 remake. [[User:MatthewCenance|Matthew Cenance]] ([[User talk:MatthewCenance|talk]]) 03:51, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
::That already happened.--[[Special:Contributions/69.157.252.96|69.157.252.96]] ([[User talk:69.157.252.96|talk]]) 22:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. It is the English name, and [[WP:USEENGLISH]] applies. And the current disambiguation using with the addition of (2020 video game) for the remake works well enough. [[User:WarChild|WarChild]] ([[User talk:WarChild|talk]]) 02:37, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per [[WP:NAMECHANGES]]: {{tq|If ... reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well}}. As per sources provided by the nominator and noted by Maplestrip, sources written after the name change continue to use the established name ''Seiken Densetsu 3'' for the 1995 game. Thus, we should continue to do so as well. Note to discussion closer: if this is closed as "no consensus", this article should be moved back to [[Seiken Densetsu 3]], which had been the stable title for this article before it was [[Special:Diff/901446910|unilaterally moved]] to its present title in June 2019, fourteen years after this article was created. [[User talk:Feminist|feminist]] ([[User talk:Feminist#top|talk]]) 10:24, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

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: ''The discussion above is closed.  <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''<!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] --></div><div style="clear:both;"></div>

== Quotes in sources ==

So, with the upcoming ''Trials of Mana'' re-release upon us, we'll have to figure out a way to approach the sources which contains the translated quotes and dialogue. Should we use the earlier fan translation or Square Enix's official English translations? [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 22:41, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
:Ideally we should use the official English quotes, since that's what we use in-article for character names and the name of the game itself. --'''[[User:PresN|<span style="color:green">Pres</span>]][[User talk:PresN|<span style="color:blue">N</span>]]''' 04:50, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

== Collection of Mana and ROMs ==

The international Collection of Mana release of Trials of Mana was actually localized as a SNES game.  Hidden inside the Switch game's data files is a group of SNES ROM files containing the localized versions of the game.  These localized ROM files will actually run if played on a SNES (using a flash cart, etc.).  In other words, instead of reworking the game into a Switch game then translating that, Square actually localized the SNES ROM then put it into a SNES emulator.  But I can't put this information on the main page, because I don't have a source on it.  -- [[User:Myria|Myria]] ([[User talk:Myria|talk]]) 17:09, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
:It's hardly relevant, because it's a pretty common practice. Also, the way you wrote the above implies that they didn't do the same for the Japanese version, which they almost certainly did. [[User:Melodia|♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫]] ([[User talk:Melodia|talk]]) 05:18, 26 April 2020 (UTC)