View source for Talk:Super Mario RPG/Archive 1

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==Final Fantasy boss: Culex==
But- what about the FF boss in the game? Not mentioned, but I can't remember where it is. In the lower-left hand corner of the world.
:Culex in Monstro Town. [[User:Andrevan| ]]<nowiki>&ndash;</nowiki>[[User:Andrevan|<b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b>]] ([[User_talk:Andrevan|<span style="color:royalblue;">talk</span>]])[[User:Andrevan| ]] 15:13, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
::I read somewhere that Culex actually wasn't in any Final Fantasy game, just 
themed like one. [[User:GSGold|GSGold]] 01:50, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
:::I believe Culex was in Final Fantasy V, though the music (both the fight theme and victory theme) that appears in Super Mario RPG is from Final Fantasy IV. - [[User:Furrykef|Furrykef]] 03:27, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Can you ''please'' add a picture of Culex to the articule? PLEEEASE? -Anonymous

He's not in any FF games, he is only modelled after them.
[[User:70.156.34.60|70.156.34.60]] 21:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:Maybe; let me log on and get to that point in the game. :) [[User:70.178.93.149|70.178.93.149]] 19:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

==Soundtrack relevance==
Does a track listing of the soundtrack really belong here? - [[User:Furrykef|Furrykef]] 04:55, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
:I personally don't see the point in it. [[User:Andrevan|<b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b>]] ([[User_talk:Andrevan|<span style="color:royalblue;">talk</span>]])[[A| ]] 05:02, Nov 6, 2004 (UTC)
::I honestly was wondering what it was doing there; it's so large that it kind of squishes the rest of the content into the top. [[User:Mo0|[[User:Mo0|Mo0]]<nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User Talk:Mo0|talk]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>]] 07:03, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
::Agreed.  I've gone ahead and deleted the Soundtrack section, and added an External link to a web page with the soundtrack listing.  --[[User:LostLeviathan|LostLeviathan]] 21:27, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::: Any one know where I could find this soundtrack? Couldn't it have been on a seperate page? I really wish I could see it. [[User:SamWhite|SamWhite]] 22:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

==Last game square made for Nintendo?==
''"...[it] was the last Square-produced game for a Nintendo video game console until [[2003]], with the debut of [[Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles]] for the [[Nintendo GameCube]]."''
:Could someone get confirmation for this?  The [[Squaresoft]] page indicates that they released several games for the [[Game Boy Advance]] (also a Nintendo video game console) in [[2003]], and that Chrystal Chronicles came out in [[2004]].  Apparently, Crystal Chronicles came out in [[Japan]] in [[2003]], and in the [[United States]] in [[2004]]; so, did any of Squaresoft's games for the Game Boy Advance come out before Crystal Chronicles? --[[User:LostLeviathan|LostLeviathan]] 21:43, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nintendo is a Japanese console, Mario is a Japanese character and Square is a Japanese company. So why should the Japanese release be ignored and the American release be counted as "the only true return of square to Nintendo"?. Now THAT'S out of the way, your question about GBA. FFCC on the Cube came out August 8, 2003. The next Nintendo release was a GBA game December 3, 2004 called "Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls", you may have heard of the Final Fantasy series. The next one was "Slime Mori Mori Dragon Quest: Shougeki no Shippo Dan" in December 10, 2003. The wifi was correct and it will stay that way. [[User:JayKeaton|JayKeaton]] 18:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

:All of those things are indeed Japanese, as is [[Treasure Hunter G]], the actual last game released by Square for a Nintendo video game console. [[User:Kilgamesh|Kil]] 04:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

::True, but Treasure Hunter G game wasn't, well, major by any means. In fact, the "The Ultimate History of Video Games" book, written by Steven L. Kent and published by Prima Communications Inc., claims that Super Mario RPG was the final game developed by Square for the SNES. I think we should take its word for it. [[User:Dragon DASH]] 18:34, 21 June 2006

:::The current version seems fine since it makes the distinction "major game". Still, I sort of feel that something more interesting and less dubious belongs in the opening paragraph. <span style="plainlinks">[[User:Kilgamesh|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Kil'''</span>]]<span style="font-size:x-small;"><sup> [[User_talk:Kilgamesh|''<span style="color:green;">(</span><span style="color:blue;">talk</span><span style="color:green;">)</span>'']]</sup></span></span> 20:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

==Gateway Drug?==
I don't believe that the term "gateway drug" should be used; I've replaced it with the meaningfully-equivalent "introductory.  ~GMH
:That's all well and good, but why not? [[User:Andrevan|<b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b>]] ([[User_talk:Andrevan|<span style="color:royalblue;">talk</span>]]) 01:35, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
::I don't think its really necessary either without expounding on it more as to why it could be considered a gateway drug. To say its a good introduction to RPG games is one thing to say its a gateway drug implies addiction, which isn't always so. I've played some of this game and some of PM:TTYD and I'm not much of an RPG player. [[User:K1Bond007|K1Bond007]] 05:00, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
:::I thought it was clear enough from the [[gateway drug]] article. [[User:Andrevan|<b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b>]] ([[User_talk:Andrevan|<span style="color:royalblue;">talk</span>]]) 18:47, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
::::I clearly understand the use of the term, I don't, however, feel its a necessary term to use. It doesn't really matter to me though, I'm just commenting here. :) [[User:K1Bond007|K1Bond007]] 20:43, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
:::::I agree with the person who mentioned the implication of addiction, since role-play gaming is not something that can be counted as a true addiction, especially considering the way drugs become addictions.
::::::Whoever thought up the use of "gateway drug" in this context needs to re-check his definition of a professional encyclopedia, thank you. [[User:Wisgary|Wisgary]] 01:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed, it's rather silly. While gaming, roleplaying, or escapism can be addictive, it's hardly the kind of chemical drug most talk about. It's no more addictive than... happiness. Sex, exercise, praise and food are far more addictive I'd say. [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 20:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

==Smithy screenshot==
Do we really need to use a screenshot of the Smithy fight? -- [[User:A Link to the Past|A Link to the Past]] 23:06, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
:Well, I don't think it hurts.  I suppose it might constitute as a spoiler, especially since you see Bowser in your party, but all the article needs is a longer paragraph alongside the pictures of the game for the Smithy battle to fit right in.  --[[User:Pie4all88|pie4all88]] 02:14, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
::I would usually agree with pie4all, but on the [[Final Fantasy VII]] article, it was recently concluded that the Sephiroth final battle picture was just better off not in the main article...so while this is a lesser game, perhaps we should follow same 'rule?' [[User:Lockeownzj00|Lockeownzj00]] 23:51, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
:::I think it constitutes as a spoiler too, it's largely unnecessary. Smithy is meant to be a mystery until the end. Having a picture of Mario fighting Bowser, Hammer Bros. or Mack would make more sense. Even Mack's appearance is no surprise based on his minions who you fight earlier. [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

==Move-back==
Why was this moved to the longer title? It's more well-known as "Super Mario RPG," which has 82,300 Google hits. The longer title has only 16,800. [[User:Andrevan|<b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b>]] ([[User_talk:Andrevan|<span style="color:royalblue;">talk</span>]]) 04:41, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
:Wouldn't Paper Mario and so on also be "Super Mario RPGs"? Besides, the official title is Super Mario RPG: The Legend of the Seven Stars, so I don't see why you'd want to use another name. I mean, I bet more people call Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time "Zelda" than by the full title, but that doesn't mean the article should be renamed accordingly (probably as many players think Link is really named Zelda, for that matter, as those who know otherwise). So I'd say leave it be.--[[User:Deridolus|Deridolus]] 20:16, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

You are both wrong, if there is no better (or others) page for Mario_RPG then MARIO_RPG should link straight to the longer title. Which it does. Thank you and good night [[User:JayKeaton|JayKeaton]] 18:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

==Redirect link (Culex)==
Why does this article have a link to Culex, but Culex is just a redirect to this article? [[User:Jaysbro|Jaysbro]] 15:05, 17 November 2005 (UTC) Also what about other uses of Culex like the genus of mosquitos?
:I have removed the self-redirect. I have also created a disambiguation page at [[Culex]], since [[Mosquito]] was linking to the redirect. [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] 18:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
::I updated the link to reflect recent changes. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 22:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
:::I just updated it again. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 10:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

==Who are the other two?==
:''Along the way he meets up with '''6 other characters''' which will help him in this quest.''
This is found in the '''Story''' section. I think it's 4, not 6. Mallow, Geno, Bowser, and Toadstool, in that order. Correct me if i'm wrong.
:Well, technically he probably meets dozens of characters, but yes, only 4 (Toadstool, Bowser, Geno, Mallow) actually accompany him as fighting teammates. [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

==Closed Captioning?==
What is meant by the comment about SMRPG being closed captioned? I've played it on TVs with the captions turned on, and never seen traditional captions. --[[User:Ntg|Ntg]] 04:37, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
:I was wondering the same. [[User:Bob A|Bob A]] 04:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
:It appears to be subtle vandalism.  [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_Mario_RPG:_Legend_of_the_Seven_Stars&diff=25550363&oldid=25441668 It was added] by [[User_talk:12.210.89.166|12.210.89.166]] in mid October of last year.  Around that time, this IP address was repeatedly warned, and shortly thereafter blocked, for adding nonsense.  I'm just going to go ahead and remove that sentence from the article. -[[User:Wild Bill|Wild Bill]] 03:01, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

==Character names==
I've changed the article back to using the names of the characters as provided by the game. I realize the more "correct" names are Princess Peach Toadstool, King Bowser Koopa, etc. but the names actually used in game are the ones listed in the article. --[[User:Ntg|Ntg]] 06:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

==Final Fantasy V music reference==
In the references section, it mentioned that the music for the Mushroom Kingdom was directly pulled from Final Fantasy V.  This is not the case (I listened to them and am familiar with both songs), though the two songs do sound rather similar. [[User:JayKeaton|JayKeaton]] 18:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

==Technical==
I put the technical information on the game near the top.  I really don't want it there, but it makes sense to have it before the spoiler section, in case people still interested in playing the game who have never done so wish to learn about the technical details.  I will not be offended if this is moved.  (Please move it, rather than reverting, as I fixed a typeo IIRC) --[[User:Overand|Overand]] 09:37, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

==Geno-Pinnochio?==
This comparison was recently removed. Rather than make some edit war, I thought we could discuss it's validity here. Geno is indeed a magical doll brought to life by a star. He also received his name from his owner (the kid, similar to Gepetto naming Pinocchio) The difference is, Geno IS the star, and he fights. He also doesn't need a conscience, he's actually more like the group's conscience, the spiritual guide throughout the quest. Even so, the similarities are worth noting I think, unless someone has a closer doll. [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

==Jonathon Jones edit war==
*'''Jonathan 'Johnny' Jones''': Johnny was once the captain of a pirate ship until a giant squid sank it. Somehow becoming merman-like creatures, Johnny and his pirates now command the ocean from beneath its waves, employing the same squid that sank them to protect their ship's treasure hold. Mario must fight his way through the sunken ship, which is now infested with ghosts, and fight Johnny and his minions to earn a Star Piece.
was changed back to
*'''Jonathan 'Johnny' Jones''': Johnny is a shark pirate that inhabited the sunken ship with his fellow sharks. Mario must fight his way through the sunken ship, which is now infested with ghosts, and fight Johnny and his minions to earn a Star Piece.
withouut explanation. I believe my expanded edits are consistant with the game, why were they removed? Due to spoilers? Due you believe the information is false? Please exlain, or I will revert the revert... but it is good to discuss it here first to resolve the disagreement. [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 19:30, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
:I think the second one was just more concise. And it never really said Johnny had transformed from human to creature.  It was always assumed that he had always been a shark. [[User:Sir John Sack-and-Sugar|Sir John Sack-and-Sugar]] 06:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

==Biblical occurance==
Super Mario & The Seven Stars? Chew on this! Revelation 1:20 talks about seven stars:
:"As for the sacred secret of the seven stars that you saw upon my right hand, and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars mean the angles of the seven congregations, and the seven lampstands mean seven congregations." 
[[User:69.123.54.89|Kundalini]]
:Interesting... although I'm sure it's more of a coincidence. The seven stars concept has been around before this anyway hasn't it? With star road or something... [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 20:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
::Well, it wasn't before, it was after, but regardless, any biblical connection is non-existant.  It is just merely coincidence. [[User:AnujSuper9|AnujSuper9]] 00:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

== Why wasn't this game released in Europe? ==

Why wasn't this game released in Europe? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:207.200.34.177|207.200.34.177]] ([[User talk:207.200.34.177|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/207.200.34.177|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
:Probably for the same or similar reason about why [[Terranigma]] was never brought to America. -- [[User:ReyBrujo|ReyBrujo]] 19:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
::"Because Enix no longer had an American subsidiary, and potentially also due to the impending release of the Nintendo 64, this game was not released in America, but was popular in Europe and Australia (published by Nintendo)."  So does that mean that Square didn't have a branch in Europe at the time of Super Mario RPG's release?  I think I got confused somewhere. [[User:Sir John Sack-and-Sugar|Sir John Sack-and-Sugar]] 06:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
:::Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was released in Brazil, too. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Guilherme M. Miranda|Guilherme M. Miranda]] ([[User talk:Guilherme M. Miranda|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Guilherme M. Miranda|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small>
::::Brazil's in South America @_@. Keiji Dragon 00:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

== More Debug Stuff ==

I see that the Debug Room has very little information on it.  I think something to add to it would be the Debug Menu under the Debug Room section, or above it, whatever works. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:24.197.194.117|24.197.194.117]] ([[User talk:24.197.194.117|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.197.194.117|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small>

== Cultural references: a "trick" ==

"In addition, there are two Easter eggs in the Booster Tower area. One allows the player to control the original Mario as he appeared in Super Mario Bros. for a short time, while the second is a Samus figurine in the toy box of Booster's Room. A similar trick (as revealed in Nintendo Power) is also present in Paper Mario, as well as its sequel, Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door."
* What trick are we referring to? The first or second easter egg? I propose changing "A similar trick" to "The former/latter easter egg", but I don't know which is correct. --[[User:Daev|Daev]] 16:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
**I'm assuming he means the first one, the 'classic Mario' trick, as I don't recall seeing Samus in any of the Paper Mario games, and I DO recall controlling old-school Mario... plus, the cameo isn't really a 'trick', per se, just a little thing included to amuse observant people. So I'm assuming that it was assumed that you'd just assume it was the first one. ;-) [[User:1337 r0XX0r|1337 r0XX0r]] 20:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

== Time for an improvement drive. ==

[[User:Zeality|Zeality]] has suggested improving this article.  I've already started.  We should make a goal to have FA or GA at some point. '''[[User:Crazyswordsman|<span style="color:orange;">Sir Crazyswordsman</span>]]''' 04:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
:Yes, we badly need to add more references and add more info about gameplay. - [[User:Mamyles|Mamyles]] 01:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
:If someone can add some storyline that would be great.  The story description is very brief and i'd add more myself but i haven't played in years.  Still i'll do what i can to help ---[[User:Nightengale989|Nightengale989]] 19:41, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
:I'll expand the story section, as I'm currently replaying the game. -[[User:Wilfredo Martinez|Wilfredo Martinez]] 06:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

== Link screenshot? ==

Would it be possible to get a screenshot of Link at the inn?  I saw one of Samus and I'd really like if anyone had one of the Link one as well.  If anyone has one and they were to put it up, that'd be great, if not perhaps we can work on getting this?  [[User:AnujSuper9|AnujSuper9]] 00:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
:We've moved this to [[List of characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]]. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 07:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

== Super Mario RPG''''':'''''? ==

Shouldn't this be moved to [[Super Mario RPG]] or [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]]? [[User:Mr. Random|Random th]][[User:Mr. Random/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">e</span>]] [[User:Mr. Random|Scrambled]] <sup>[[User talk:Mr. Random|(?)]]</sup>([[User:Mr. Random/Vandalism|Vandalism and other nonsense!]]) 20:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
:Someone accidentally broke it, so it can't be moved to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars without help from an admin. - [[User:A Link to the Past|A Link to the Past]] [[User talk:A Link to the Past|(talk)]] 21:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
::Go to [[WP:RM]] and list this under the "uncontroversial moves" section. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

==Move to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars ==
'''Move''': I think it would be best if we simply moved it to the full game title. [[User:CyberSkull|Dread Lord CyberSkull]] [[User talk:CyberSkull|✎☠]] 01:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
*'''Page moved''', per request at [[WP:RM#Uncontroversial proposals]].  Cheers. -[[User:GTBacchus|GTBacchus]]<sup>([[User talk:GTBacchus|talk]])</sup> 01:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

==A question==
Why wasn't the game released in the PAL region? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:124.181.139.197|124.181.139.197]] ([[User talk:124.181.139.197|talk]][[Special:Contributions/124.181.139.197|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}|&#32;{{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:Because Nintendo thought the PAL region didn't like RPGs. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:68.223.187.119|68.223.187.119]] ([[User talk:68.223.187.119|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/68.223.187.119|contribs]]) 22:57, 5 February 2007</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
::Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. Cite your sources. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 06:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references in Development? ==

I don't see how this is logical. Cultural references aren't a part of game development. It should be its own section or integrated into the article. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 23:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:I do not support [[User:TTN|TTN]] nearly blanking of the [[Super_Mario_RPG:_Legend_of_the_Seven_Stars#Cultural_references|Cultural references]], because it does not reflect [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]], however, I do support [[User:RobJ1981|RobJ1981]], because the section does contain too much trivia. Instead, we should incorporate the references to specific sections of the [[Super_Mario_RPG:_Legend_of_the_Seven_Stars#Story|Story]]. Besides, it would help spruce up the Story with pictures, and Cultural references is overflowing, however, the Wikipedia articles refrence specific sections here, so we should be mindful of that and update their links, when we change this section. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 23:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

::Consensus is not needed for editing sections. If it was, how the hell does anything get done on this site? Consensus comes from group forming a common opinion, not Person B not liking Person A's edit. It's fine to say you don't like the edit, but don't use the "doesn't reflect consensus" bull. I see that used way too much.

::Anyways, in dealing with the secion, it should be axed. Most of the stuff is unimportant and trivial. The majority is unreferenceable crap that doesn't need mention. I wouldn't be surprised if most of it could be counted as OR(like Culex). Are there any featured or good articles that link to this article? I'm guessing only ones with trivia sections do, so that's pretty pointless. If the some of the info is found to be necessary, follow the format of a featured article or something. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 11:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

::Feel free to respond any time... [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 15:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

:::TTN, first of all, please keep a cool head. I understand you have a different perspective, but there is no reason to use words such as "hell", "crap", and "bull". If you feel that the information is unimportant, then please say so in a constructive manner. Second, to answer your question, yes, featured articles such as [[Link (The Legend of Zelda)]] link to specific parts subsections of Cultural references. Third, consensus is needed for editing sections. Consensus is an official policy on Wikipedia. It has wide acceptance among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow. When editing a page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page. For example, when you make an edit, you are editing the previous consensus. To reach a new consensus, when you make an edit, if I edit the article further, and the edit change is a revert, and you do not agree with the revert, then take it to the talk page, discuss, find a reasonable (if temporary) compromise, and implement it by making an edit. If either one of us change that new edit, and we do not agree with the change, then we should think of a reasonable change to integrate our ideas with each other. That is how we build reasonable consensus, and that is not my opinion. I took everything I just said directly from [[Wikipedia:Consensus]]. Fourth of all, Cultural references in this article do have further references in the form of citations. Fifth of all, my edits with Cultural references were the previous consensus. For example,  [[User:Agathoclea|Agathoclea]] Reverted edits by 124.181.139.197 to the last version by me, because the edit of 124.181.139.197 for  speedy deletion did not reflect consensus based on the reason: "This is a stupid game!" Thus, when editing the previous consensus, it is your responsibility to ensure that your revision reflects consensus. If it does not, then we must think of a reasonable change to integrate our ideas with each other to find a reasonable (if temporary) compromise. So, I suggest we integrate Cultural references with appropriate areas of Story. I believe it would help spruce it up the pictures. In addition, we should be mindful that other Wikipedia articles reference specific sections in Cultural references and update their links, when we change it. Furthermore, we need historical data, such as early reviews from gaming magazines, for example, to add to Development and not make it so focused on just the Debug Room. I have a lot of old ''Nintendo Power'' magazines, if anyone would like citations. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 17:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

::::I use those words in my normal speech, so sorry if you don't like them. There is a difference between consensus and you not liking the edit as I stated. My point was not to call for consensus every time you find the need to revert someone. It seems to be a bit on the side of wikilawyering. At this point, it's fine to discuss it, but really you didn't need to call it on the first revert.

::::The Legend of Zelda only links to this article not the section. Plus, it already states everything in that article. We can mention somewhere that Link and Samus appear, but we don't need a section dedicated to it.

::::Most of the things in that section are just pointless. All the names are trivial, and could easily be included under their section of the character page. The only decent things are Cluex, which needs definite sources to actually stay, and the two character cameos. Those can easily be mentioned in a few sentences with links to the character pages. The pictures are decorative, so they should also go. We can improve the sections later, for now lets focus on this. (Please use paragraphs next time.) [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 17:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::I'm sorry for not using paragraphs.

:::::I looked at [[Link (The Legend of Zelda)]] , and you're right. It doesn't link to that section. I could have sworn I saw subsection links somewhere... Anyway, you're also right that it already states everything in that article, because I'm the one who stated it. As Wikipedia requires, we should not write in an in–universe style; the articles should contain that information as well. Furthermore, we should cannot briefly mention character appearances and depend on other articles to expand on that information, because articles such as [[Final Fantasy]] are already too large and can hardly handle it. <span style="font-size: smaller">(I am aware we are keeping the Culex reference, so I'm just using that as an example. If you would like another crossover example, take a look at the crossover of [[Bewitched#End_of_program]] and [[The Flintstones#Overview]]. Bewitched lists the appearance in ''The Flintstones'', but the The Flintstones lists it as Season 6 Episode 6. Thus, I believe we should make the crossover examples similar but with small differences.)</span>

:::::Speaking of dependence on other articles, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Tokusatsu]] is asking us for a better screenshot of the Axem Rangers. [[User:Adv193|Adv193]] suggests "due to the SNES's graphics and it is hard to see their faces". Thus I suggested,
<blockquote>
:::::<p>We're having a nearly identical discussion in [[Talk:Super_Sentai#Mario|Talk:Super_Sentai]], so you can go there, if you would like to read it, but point is, the section ''really'' does need an image, because we should show how other works depict ''Power Rangers'', so which you rather see?</p>
:::::*A screenshot of the Axem Rangers next to Blade (the same screenshot, but their huge mecha looms over Barrel Volcano, showing how small the Axem Rangers are compared to their mecha) or
:::::*A detailed screenshot of the Axem Rangers in battle. I could even have the their overhead textbox, "WE ARE THE AXEM RANGERS!!" in their battle stances (''very'' typical of ''Super Sentai'').
</blockquote>

:::::Also, when you say the Cultural references subsections need "definite sources to actually stay", what do you mean? Citations? [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 20:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

::::::It's easy enough to just state in one sentence, that both Link and Samus make cameo appearances in the game. We really don't need to go any further than that. We then can link to either the character pages, or, if they have them, sections on the character list for details. Explaining how and why they show up is pretty pointless.

::::::Yes, I mean citations from reliable sources. Culex is obviously a Final Fantasy reference, but it still needs a source to back up the thought. I still don't know if it needs to be mentioned in this article. I haven't seen one single section in any of the FA games that even mentions cultural references besides Final Fantasy X-2, which was only talking about localization. These things really are trivial (which is why mostly only trivia sections link to them).

::::::I suggest we axe the section. We move any of the name stuff we can source to the character's section on the list. We can have a sentence talking about Samus and Link at some point, and just like somewhere. That seems like the cleanest and easiest way. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 21:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::You asked me for citations. I provided them. Do not delete the section. Integrate it. I'll be back later. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 01:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

::::::::It's impossible to integrate it into this article while still keeping the "quality" of the article. We need to put in the character article like I said in my summary(though I forgot to do it). I'm sorry, but most of this stuff is just junk. The only things worth keeping are small mentions of the cameos. That's it. It's all just trivia. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 01:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm not saying we have to keep all the information, but do not simply delete without putting the information elsewhere in the article, in some shape or form. Even if that form is reasonably shorter than the original, fine, but keep the citations. BTW, I did update '''all''' the citations, and was a lot of work. I own a lot of ''Nintendo Power'' magazines, and I mean a lot. I had do dig through a huge pile just to get one little paragraph to add here. In addition, every citation now has a quotation. When you simply delete all that work, especially after you asked me to get it, sufic'd to say, it's frustrating. If you want to put parts into character subsections that exist, then go for it; be bold and then discuss it here with an appropriate link, '''before''' you delete it. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 03:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::BTW, you may be alone thinking that the sections are junk. For example, [[User:Tony Myers|Tony Myers]] recently added to the Super Sentai and Power Rangers refrence. Speaking of the Super Sentai and Power Rangers refrence, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Tokusatsu]] still wants that new image. I found http://tasvideos.org/402M.html, which is a time attack of the entire game. I downloaded the movie, and I'll try to retake some screenshots. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 04:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, we have Final Fantasy - 
This is not necessary in this article. At one point, we may want to mention it even we push towards FA, but currently there's no suitable section for even a mention. It should just be on the character list.

The Legend of Zelda -
The actual thing doesn't need to be mentioned here. Whenever we add a sentence about it, we can move a reference here from the character list.

Metroid -
Same

F–Zero and Star Fox - 
The junk I was talking about. This is way, way to trivial to care about. Major cameos are fine, but no article will ever mention anything this pointless.

Donkey Kong -
Same

Luigi - 
Belongs only on the character list. There's no need for it here.

Super Sentai and Power Rangers - 
Belongs only on the character list. There's no need for it here except maybe in part of a sentence like "...the Axem rangers, a PR reference...*ref*" Certainly no more than that.

The Three Musketeers - 
Belongs only on the character list. "The Three Musty Fears, whose name comes from the Three Musketeers..." is all it needs. In this article, it's junk.
Super Mario Bros. -
For the level, see F–Zero and Star Fox. For the sprite, we'll put it in the sequels section and talk about Paper Mario.

Bruce Lee -
See F–Zero and Star Fox

The Threepenny Opera -
See The Three Musketeers

Confucius and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - 
See The Three Musketeers

Silent protagonist -
Doesn't need any mention past the character paragraph. The reference is pointless. We need a reference that he is a silent protagonist, not that a couple words were said.

There's my stance. Basically, nothing here needs to have more than a sentence, and only up to four of these even deserve that sentence. Disagree? [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 11:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

:Ok, if you want to transfer the stuff to the character list, then go ahead, and please link to your changes on this talk page '''before''' you delete from this article.

:Also, I don't understand why you ask me for citations if you delete them. I cited the script for "Formation...HO!!", because Axem Red's textbox does not appear in the screenshot. (If I included it, he would be cut off.) We must cite our sources to show that we didn't make it up. The reason I even mention it in the first place is because ''Power Rangers'' formations are a running theme in the show. Also, I cite Spezzafer's movie for the same reason. Although Spezzafer's movie shows the action verbatim, it is not a fully accessible media to people with disabilities, so I must include both. Also, because each source is neither from Nintendo/Square nor a recognized source (i.e. IGN, Electronic Gaming Monthly, etc.) (even though Spezzafer's movie shows everything from the game verbatim), it's necessary to list both.

:In addition, I added more citations for the silent protagonist. Early in the game, Toad asks Mario, "Mario, what's with the silent treatment?!" [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 01:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

::What exactly are you sourcing? These statements are not good references. Technically, they're OR. You're creating an original theory(although true) based off of fairly random words. These don't cut it. You need things like the Culex reference (though that really doesn't go into any real detail at all). Also, I really don't think FAQs or videos qualify as credible references either. If you want to list text, just copy what's done on [[Chrono Trigger]].
:::I'm sourcing the script, online. I just looked at [[Chrono Trigger]], and that's the first time I've seen {{tl|cite video game}}. Now that I know about it, I'll use it, but I'm pretty pissed off that [[Wikipedia:Citation_templates]] doesn't list {{tl|cite video game}}. Otherwise, I would have used it and saved a whole lot of trouble.
:::If you want more things like the Culex refrence, you can use the Nintendo Strategy Guide. I lost mine, but I do have a lot of issues of ''Nintendo Power'' I could use. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 02:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

::::Oh yeah, I do have that packed away somewhere. I'll take it out for a nostalgic(sort of) read sometime soon. I'll add anything if I find it. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 03:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::Yes! Could you please find it! ''Nintendo Power'' mentions nothing about Link, but I remember the strategy guide does. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 09:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
::I'll go ahead and move stuff. Anything shaky(name origins) won't be added until a source is found.  [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 01:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
::I could add {{tl|nihongo}} for Super Sentai, with the source, and that would show the name origin. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 02:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

:::Ok, I merged the info into [[List of characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]]. I removed the Axem references because I fail to see how they actually back anything up. I removed all other info. The names can be readded if you find sources. The rest is trivia. Most editors will back me up on the fact that it shouldn't be included. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 01:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
::::I fixed the Axem reference in [[Smithy Gang#Axem Rangers|Smithy Gang]]. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 09:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

== Glitch section ==

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a glitch section on the SMRPG page?  And now that it's been removed, is there any other place where that information can be found?  [[User:AnujSuper9|AnujSuper9]] 00:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
:There is a place where you can find that information. If you click "history" at the top, when reading that article, you can look back around the time you saw that information. Although I am not aware of specific glitches in the game, I am aware that they exist. [http://tasvideos.org/402M.html Spezzafer's movie] states it "[a]buses programming errors in the game".<ref name="nesvideos">
{{cite web
|url=http://tasvideos.org/402M.html
|title=nesvideos - movies: #402
|accessdate=2007-02-21
|author= (spezzafer)
|authorlink= http://tasvideos.org/Players-102up.html Spezzafer
|date= 2005-08-30
|work=NESVideos / Front Page
|publisher=NESVideos 
|pages=1 
|quote=[http://tasvideos.org/movies/smv/spezzafar2-supermariorpg.zip http://tasvideos.org/movies/smv/spezzafar2-supermariorpg.zip] 
}}
</ref>
I just added Spezzafer's video and citations to the "Errors" section [[User:PJ Pete|PJ Pete]] added. Let's see if we can revamp the section, white keeping an eye on notability and attribution. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 16:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
:The reason for the removal wasn't the OR. It's the fact that we don't directly reference videos within article text as far as I know. A video link does not help the actual article. If something in the video is actually notable, and attributable to a true source, readd it with that. The first part is still very trivial also. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 16:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
::I wasn't refrencing the video. I was refrencing the website: "Abuses programming errors in the game".[http://tasvideos.org/402M.html] I am simply using the source to show that programming errors exist in the gamre. Besides, Wikipedians do directly reference videos within article text. Take a look at [[Subtitle (captioning)#South Asia]]. Plus, if I was citing the video, I would have used {{tl|cite video}}, not {{tl|cite web}}. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 15:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I do not support [[User:TTN|TTN]] removing the "Errors" section. If you do not believe the copyright is notable, or deserves mention in a section, then we should briefly mention at a foot note of the Infobox. In addition, Spezzafer is [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources#Self-published sources|within one's field of expertise]], simply playing the game. If I read a book aloud, is my aural rendition of the book [[Wikipedia:No original research|OR]]?: no. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 16:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

:You seem to be reading a little to far into that part. Playing a game is not a field of expertise. You also seemed to miss "these ''may'' be acceptable as sources, so long as his or her work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications." The game cannot be used a source if you are stating things that cannot normally be accessed in the game. That is the kind of thing that needs a secondary source. And once again, we don't point out random (and very large) videos in text, which is the main reason for it's removal.
::I didn't mean gameplaying was Spezzafer's field of expertise. I was talking about making tool–assisted videos, in which he is within his field of expertise, "using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex." [http://tasvideos.org/] <blockquote>Only a few players that are skilled in real-time play have the will to create good tool-assisted movies (patience and determination count instead of real-time skills), and only a few players that make good tool-assisted movies are truly skillful in real-time playing (almost always in a different game). Bisqwit, for example, does not do well at Mega Man games, although he is the author of the sensational tool-assisted Mega Man movie.[http://tasvideos.org/WhyAndHow.html]</blockquote>[[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 15:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:If you can find a place for that random piece of trivia, feel free to place it there. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 17:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
::I was thinking the same thing. I'll place the Title Screen discrepency as a footnote in the Infobox. As for programming errors, we'll see. In addition, many wikipedians, such as [[User:AnujSuper9|AnujSuper9]], [[User:Dragon DASH|Dragon DASH]], who just provided the image proving Square published the title as well in Japan, which I just expanded, as well as uploaded [[:Image:Smrpg_0005.JPG|the image of the debug room]], and myself all believe that something about Debug, Glitches, or Errors is notable. I thing we should have some mention along the lines of that topic. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 15:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
:::I had to edit {{tl|Infobox VG}} to allow for footnotes, but I finished, and now it's a footnote. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 17:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

=== Square logo ===
To set the record straight, I didn't use [[:Image:Square logo 222.png|the Square logo]] "to look pretty". I added it because that's what's in the screenshot. If [[:Image:Nintendo.svg|the Nintendo logo]] appeared, then I would have added it as well. (BTW, I just revamped the summary of the square logo on its image description page.) However, since the citeria for fair use on Wikipedia is that no public domain (or other free licence) material that can serve the same purpose exists. The text "Square" serves the same purpose. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 16:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

== Silent protagonist ==

I added an annotated citation with two corroborative sources to support Mario is a silent protagonist. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 07:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

== Audio ==

"Like ''[[Super Mario World]]'', ''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars''' music primarily varies the same theme." Can anyone provide a citation for this? [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 18:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

== "Not a platformer" means... ==

The term "not a platformer" in the sentence "This game is not a platformer" means:

This game is not characterized by bottomless pits that the player must jump over to get past. Any more detail about the meaning of this sentence?? [[User:Georgia guy|Georgia guy]] 15:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

==Plot==
=== Summary ===

I think the summary has some definite room for improvement. There should be a little less, and they shouldn't be the amount of grime on it that there is. [[User:Spoiled Silk|Spoiled Silk]] 02:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
=== Story section ===

The story section is too goddamn long, I think? Doppelganger [[User:M2K_2/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">E</span>]] 03:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah, we should work on shortening it. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 07:23, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
:I added {{tl|plot}}. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 03:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
: I trimmed the story by about a third, but it's still close to 1200 words.  Feel free to change it back if I removed too much. [[User:Dalton Imperial|Dalton Imperial]] 07:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
===Final Fantasy III===
In Final Fantasy III, one of the side-quest towns has a Back Door needed for access, and Marrymore's back door alludes to this. Can someone please add the town in which this happens and a quote from when it happens? Another type of reference, such as the game's strategy guide, is also acceptable. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 21:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
:I do not support TTN removing the following.
:<blockquote>alluding to the [[Final Fantasy III]] [[Quest (gaming)#Side-quest|sidequest]]{{Fact|date=April 2007}} &#60;&#33;&#45;&#45;&#32; In Final Fantasy III, one of the side-quest towns has a Back Door needed for access. &#60;ref name="Final Fantasy III"&#62; &#123;&#123;Cite video game | title = [[Final Fantasy III]] | developer = [[Square Co.|Square Co., Ltd.]] (now [[Square Enix|Square Enix Co., Ltd.]]) | publisher = Square Co. | date = 1990-04-27 | platform = [[Nintendo Entertainment System|NES]] | level = ****PLEASE ADD IN WHICH TOWN THIS HAPPENS HERE**** | language = Japanese | isolang = ja | quote = ****PLEASE ADD A QUOTE WHEN THIS HAPPENS HERE**** &#125;&#125; &#60;/ref&#62; &#45;&#45;&#62;,</blockquote>
:I believe it contributes to the quality of the article, because we state “It contains token similarities to ''[[Chrono Trigger]]'' and the ''[[Final Fantasy]]'' series with a story based in the ''Mario'' universe.<ref name="Final Fantasy">{{cite news|author=Dan Owsen|coauthors=Scott Pelland, Kent Miller, Terry Munson, Paul Shinoda, Tom Wharton|year=1996|month=March|title=Epic Center|work=Nintendo Power|publisher=M. Arakawa, Nintendo of America, Inc.|volume=82|pages=56|accessdate=2007-02-14|quote=Square Soft — the maker of classic RPGs such as Final Fantasy III and Chrono Trigger —developed the game in Japan with guidance from Shigeru Miyamoto... Super Mario RPG combines many of the best parts of traditional RPGs and platform games. Square's Final Fantasy series was the model for the battle sequences while the tradition of Super Mario Bros. games demanded a lot of action.}}</ref>” Thus, we must show what token similarities to ''Chrono Trigger'' and the ''Final Fantasy'' it contains. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 23:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
::Except that the door thing is complete OR, and really doesn't make much sense. How is one random back door, a gimmick used in various RPGs, a reference to one game? And you really need to work on your sourcing. For one, you source completely pointless things, such as the back door part, and you use those horrendously large references. Copy the style used on FAs for regular references, and game FAs for in-game references. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 23:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
:::I am not the person who made the claim that it is a reference to the game. I am asking for a citation that it is true. I am not making a claim of original research, because I am not the person who made the claim. Second, even if I was making this claim, I am saying that I need a citation. I am not claiming original research of my own. Third, you need to assume good faith that I am trying my best to provide verifiable information. You should not assume everytime that my contributons are [[WP:OR|OR]], as you have numberous times already, especially when multiple editors agree that the information adds to the quality of the article. You state the format of my citations, which are a copy–and–paste from {{tl|Cite video game}} and {{tl|Cite news}}, should be like the ones in featured articles. [[WP:SOFIXIT|So fix it]]! [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 00:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
::::You are pushing that it needs to be there, so you should back it up before adding it. Even if you are asking for a source, you state that you think it is important to the article. I'm not talking about the fields that you're using; I'm talking about your method. You use the vertical instead of the inline, and you place way too much information into them. You should be keeping them simple and short like in featured articles. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 00:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
:::::Again, I am not the one who added it. Plus, according to the policy [[Wikipedia:Citing sources]], it is perfectly acceptable to provide as much information as you can and request a source (except in [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|biographies of living persons]]). Also, please define “way too much information” and “simple and short”. I don't understand what that means to you, since I simply copy–and–paste the templates and fill in the fields. In understand you want me to use inline citations rather than the vertical format. I prefer to use the vertical format, but I have no problem switching over to the inline format, if that is what you prefer. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 01:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
::::::It's more evident in [[Smithy Gang]] than here, but a couple examples would be the Axem Rangers quotes. Some others would be when you include the entire quote from the source (other than games). That is just unnecessary. That would be preferable as inline citations make it a lot easier to edit easily. That's also only one part of my complaint. Also as shown by the Smithy Gang article, you source totally pointless parts of the story. You should only source major points, not everything you quote in text (which also isn't a good idea). [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 02:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
:::::After looking at some more FAs, it seems like one in twenty does use the vertical format, but I'm guessing those are older or something. And even then, they are much more condensed and to the point. The inline is the seemingly preferred format. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 01:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
::::::[[WP:SOFIXIT|So fix it]]! [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 01:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
:::::::This was more for the future than right now. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 02:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

===Same music as Final Fantasy?===
I had once heard that the music for the Mushroom Kingdom in this game is the same as a certain town in [[Final Fantasy V]]. Can anyone confirm this? ~[[User:Hibana|Hibana]]
:This seems to be listed under Wikipedia... so yes, confirming it would be good. I never noticed, but I was never very observant. [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
::Yes, it's {{nihongo|Royal Palace|王家の宮殿|Ōke no Kyūden}} that plays while in Walse Castle. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 00:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

== Why Does Boshi Redirect Here? ==

When there is no mention of him. Shouldn't he be redirected to [[Yoshi]]? [[User:Borincano75|magiciandude]] 21:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
:I fixed it. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] 05:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
{{talkarchivenav}}

== European delay ==

Is there any good reason given by Square/Nintendo, or otherwise known, for the cancellation of the European release? --'''[[User:BBilge|Bilge]]''' <small><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:BBilge|T]][[Special:Contributions/BBilge|C]]]</small> 12:37, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== Axem Rangers, Queen Valentina ==

[[Axem Rangers]] and [[Queen Valentina]] both redirect to this article but are not mentioned within. Will someone with knowledge on the topic please add information on these two characters to this article if appropriate? If not -- or if so -- would folks weigh in on the [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2009_August_31#Axem_Rangers.2C_Queen_Valentina|Redirects for Deletion discussion]]? —<b>[[User:Benjamin Mako Hill|<span style="color:#C40099;">m</span><span style="color:#600099;">a</span><span style="color:#2D0399;">k</span><span style="color:#362365;">o</span>]][[User_talk:Benjamin Mako Hill|<span style="color:#000000;">๛</span>]]</b> 19:05, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

:[http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=AXEM+RANGERS+WIKIPEDIA&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=292ac4760832f3c4 GOOGLE "AXEM RANGERS WIKIPEDIA"]. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_RPG:_Legend_of_the_Seven_Stars GET SUPER MARIO RPG WITHOUT ONE MENTION OF A TRACE OF THE WORD "AXEM" OR "RANGER" ON IT]. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mario_series_characters YOU ALSO GET SUPER MARIO BROS. SERIES CHARACTERS WHICH DOESNT MENTION CHARACTERS IN ONLY ONE GAME]. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sentai APPARENTLY THE ONLY "REAL" ARTICLE ON WIKIPEDIA THAT MENTIONS AXEM RANGERS IS THE SUPER_SENTAI ARTICLE]. I GUESS "AXEM RANGERS" SHOULD REDIRECT THERE. GOGGLING "QUEEN VALENTINA" YOU JUST SHOWS A DEVIANTART PICTURE AND I THINK ITS OKAY IF SHE REDIRECTS HERE AND ISNT MENTIONED BECAUSE I DONT THINK SHES AS WORTH MENTIONING AS THE AXEM RANGERS ON THE MERITS THAT THEYRE MORE POPULAR AND BASED MORE ON "AMERICAN" (SHARED WITH JAPAN) CULTURE..."POWER RANGERS" AS OPPOSED TO "SUPER SENTAI" ETC. BUT STILL WORTH AT LEAST JUST 1 MENTION OF THEIR NAME. HOWEVER EVEN IF WE DONT LIST THEM KEEP IN MIND THAT SOME VIDEOGAMES ESPECIALLY BACK THEN AROUND THIS TIME MENTIONED ALL THE NAMES OF ALL THE CHARACTERS AND ENEMIES IN THE GAME AND IT ISNT IMPOSSIBLE TO LIST THEM SO I DONT SEE WHY WE CANT MAKE A SIMPLE LIST WITHOUT NECESSARILY MAKING A SIDE DESCRIPTION TO IT (IF THATS THE KEY TO IT BEING SEEN AS "SPAM"). EVEN IF THEYRE NOT LISTED THEIR NAME SHOULD AT LEAST BE REDIRECTED TO THIS GAME IF WIKIPEDIA IS TRULY "THE SUM OF HUMAN KNOWLEDGE" THEN "IF I CANT WIKIPEDIA IT ..IT DOESNT EXIST". LOGICAL. ALSO THE JAPANESE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE OF SUPER MARIO RPG HAS MORE DETAILED DESCRIPTIONS FOR EACH CHARACTER AND THEIR ROLE IN THIS GAME AS OPPOSED TO SPAMMING THE MAIN CHARACTER PAGE WITH IT AND I THINK WE SHOULD FOLLOW THEIR EXAMPLE...OR OUR OWN EXAMPLE THAT WE LOST BY DELETING IT BY SEEING IT AS USELESS EVEN THO THE JAPANESE WIKIPEDIA PAGE IS TWICE AS LONG WITH ALL USEFUL RELEVANT INFORMATION AND NO USELESS PICTURES. BUT I DIGRESS. --[[User:0000ZERO|0000ZERO]] ([[User talk:0000ZERO|talk]]) 04:40, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I missed your point. What are you proposing, 0000ZERO? [[User:Larrythefunkyferret|Larrythefunkyferret]] ([[User talk:Larrythefunkyferret|talk]]) 07:09, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

== Super Mario RPG Arranged Tracks ==

I cannot find any credible evidence that such an album was ever published by NTT Publishing. While there is a copy of this floating around on the net, it is more likely that this is a collection of fan-arranges than an unknown album. Moreover, the album title and tracklist are provided here with no citation. For these reasons, I propose that this album be removed from the entry.
[[User:Secret Squirrel (VGMdb)|Secret Squirrel (VGMdb)]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel (VGMdb)|talk]]) 22:53, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
:Unlikely, since you can hear people talking in Japanese in the "bar" in the background of ''The Drunkard Song''. [[User:Taric25|Taric25]] ([[User talk:Taric25|talk]]) 05:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

== Where to improve ==

I noticed you wanted some feedback on the article at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Assessment/Requests|assessment]] and how to improve it so I'll review this like I would if it were asked for a Peer Review.

'''General'''
* <s>Images need [[WP:Alt|descriptive alt text]] (descriptions might need further detail)</s>
* <s>[http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py?page=Super_Mario_RPG%3A_Legend_of_the_Seven_Stars DAB Links] - These need pointing in the right direction</s>
* <s>Ref 9 and 36 are dead</s> (fixed)
* <s>References don't need a full quote in them, just the basic information of the reference. URL, pages, author etc.</s>
* <s>There's some inconsistency in how dates are formatted in the references. Eg. Some are yyyy-mm-dd and some are written in full January 1, 2000</s>
* <s>Don't need the "Battle system" sub-heading in the gameplay section, can be merged. Make sure the prose still flows though.</s>
* <s>I would merge "Rereleases" into "Legacy"</s>
* I would see a copy edit so the writing is cleaned up, especially some of the single line paragraphs.
* Try reading some [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Featured_articles|RPG based FA articles]]

'''Writing'''

''Lead''
* <s>Expansion is needed per [[WP:Lead]]. It needs to give a summary of the whole article, for example, the lead gives no indication of how it was received.</s>
* <s>"marking the longest time difference between a game release for different regions in Nintendo's history." - Is there a citation for this anywhere in the article?</s> (removed)

''Gameplay''
* <s>"Much of Super Mario RPG's gameplay is outside of monster battles. In the field, the game plays much like an isometric platformer, in which both traditional Mario features and new ones play a key role" - It needs to be explained first that there are two main sections to the game, outside battles and inside them rather than assuming the reader knows this. This will explain what "in the field" means. "traditional Mario features" needs explaining. Try saying what they are THEN saying that they are features commonly found in Mario games.</s>
* <s>"Avoiding battles also means acquiring fewer experience points, which will slow the process of levelling up and potentially make unavoidable battles more difficult." - Reads like a guide ([[Wikipedia:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_manual.2C_guidebook.2C_textbook.2C_or_scientific_journal|WP:Not]])</s> (removed)
* <s>"Toadstool uses primarily healing" - "primarily" is redundant</s>
* <s>Wiki-link "turn based system" and "active time element" as these are not obvious to the reader what they are</s>
* <s>"The need to perform action commands in between navigating menus requires the player to be engaged in the battle the whole time." - This sentence I feel states the obvious, the player is playing the game anyway.</s> (removed)
* <s>The last paragraph seems to be a mish-mash of different statements which don't really connect.</s>

''Plot''
* Some of the paragraphs are a little stumpy, some can be merged with each other.

''Development''
* <s>"an actual RPG battle system" - "actual" is redundant</s>
* <s>"For example, the Chancellor before named the Mushroom Retainer" - Needs rewording</s>

''Reception''
* <s>I would use the <nowiki>{{VG Reviews}}</nowiki> template to include scores to keep short one line "This publication gave it x/x". Keep the prose focused on the individual elements of the reviews</s>
* <s>There doesn't seem to be anything about music or story</s>

''Legacy''
* <s>"In fact, Nintendo" - "in fact" is redundant</s>
* <s>"after the typical " - "typical is redundant</s>

''Rerelease''
* <s>The whole section should not be made up of bullet points.</s>
* <s>"Also, some of the colors were adjusted." - Merge with previous sentence and remove "also" eg "and some of the.."</s>

I hope these suggestions help the article improve. [[User:Crimsonfox|<b><span style="color:#8B0000;">Cr</span><span style="color:#FF0000;">im</span><span style="color:#FF4500;">so</span><span style="color:#FF8C00;">nF</span><span style="color:#FFA500;">ox</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:Crimsonfox|talk]]</sup> 21:19, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
:Wow, that was quite a review, I honestly didn't expect so much detail. Thank You! This is a great topic which I think it has plenty of potential to go up all the way to FA with the proper work on it. I was just hoping someone would leave me a couple of pointers for B-Class, as I think it's best to go one step at a time and not try to jump all the way up at once, but this is great feedback. Thank You Crimsonfox![[User:NeoGenPT|NeoGenPT]] ([[User talk:NeoGenPT|talk]]) 08:40, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
::I have marked the points that have already been corrected by me and Larrythefunkyferret. This will simplify to other editors what still needs to be addressed on the list. If I missed anything please correct it. [[User:NeoGenPT|NeoGenPT]] ([[User talk:NeoGenPT|talk]]) 14:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Alt text needs to be more descriptive of the image itself and not what's portraying, that is the job for the caption. Think of how a blind person would listen to the alt text for the cover, they wouldn't know what "Super Mario RPG game cover (SNES)" looks like. [[User:Crimsonfox|<b><span style="color:#8B0000;">Cr</span><span style="color:#FF0000;">im</span><span style="color:#FF4500;">so</span><span style="color:#FF8C00;">nF</span><span style="color:#FFA500;">ox</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:Crimsonfox|talk]]</sup> 15:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
::::Added some better descriptions for the alt tag, although they could be further improved. (for example I don't know the names of those enemies in the battle scene pic, that could be added maybe) [[User:NeoGenPT|NeoGenPT]] ([[User talk:NeoGenPT|talk]]) 15:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::Just so you know, they're called Terrapins, so what you have is perfectly accurate. I'll see if I can do anymore. [[User:Larrythefunkyferret|Larrythefunkyferret]] ([[User talk:Larrythefunkyferret|talk]]) 06:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::I added a VG Review box with some reviews taken from the article. The reviews will need to be sourced, but I have a really hard time finding sources for stuff. I also merged that last paragraph of the gameplay section into previous paragraphs in that section. I think it may need some rewording, but at least they are more logically placed. [[User:Larrythefunkyferret|Larrythefunkyferret]] ([[User talk:Larrythefunkyferret|talk]]) 07:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

== Modding ==
Should we say something about the Lazy Shell modding tool and the modding community using it? I don't see this mentioned in the article.[[Special:Contributions/98.101.136.218|98.101.136.218]] ([[User talk:98.101.136.218|talk]]) 15:11, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
:I've never heard of this. What sourced information do you have on this? [[User:Larrythefunkyferret|Larrythefunkyferret]] ([[User talk:Larrythefunkyferret|talk]]) 06:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
:Here, have a look around...
http://giangurgolo.home.att.net/smrpg/
[[Special:Contributions/98.101.136.218|98.101.136.218]] ([[User talk:98.101.136.218|talk]]) 03:40, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

So is this run on a standard computer rather than a SNES cartridge? Also, has this tool been mentioned by anyone besides the developer? [[User:Larrythefunkyferret|Larrythefunkyferret]] ([[User talk:Larrythefunkyferret|talk]]) 07:58, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, using a ROM and an emulator. LazyShell modifies the ROM to do all sorts of things. There are videos of its capabilities floating around Youtube and I am working on a mod with it myself. It may be some time before anything major comes up that is worth mentioning in the article, but it is something to be watching. [[Special:Contributions/98.101.136.218|98.101.136.218]] ([[User talk:98.101.136.218|talk]]) 15:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not really standard to include such a thing. Do any other articles mention it? I don't even see it in games that are actually known for having mods available. Maybe this article can be the one to start a trend, but, considering some of the militant editors out there, I doubt it would stick. usucd[[user:usucdik2|<span style="color:black;">i</span>]]k 00:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
:It would be hard, but that doesn't mean it'd be impossible. All we have to do is show that it's a big deal, and the easiest way to do that is to find a credible newspaper that talks about it. [[User:Larrythefunkyferret|Larrythefunkyferret]] ([[User talk:Larrythefunkyferret|talk]]) 07:26, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

==Tomato Adventure==
Should this article mention this GBA title that was also done by Chihiro Fujioka? They play similar. Even the victory theme of Tomato Adventure sounds similar to Super Mario RPG's. [[User:Parrothead1983|Parrothead1983]] ([[User talk:Parrothead1983|talk]]) 19:16, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
:Only if it's covered in [[Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources|reliable sources]] ([[WP:VG/RS]]) <span style='font:1.1em"Avenir";padding:1px 3px;border:1px solid #909'><span style="color:#909;">czar</span>&nbsp;[[User:Czar|<span style="color:#909;">♔</span>]]</span> 19:56, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

==RPGFan==
Is RPGFan a reliable source? It's about section [http://rpgfan.com/staff.html here] makes it seem like a fan site as it's gone through several owners and operators without any serious business technique. Not to mention that it's staff seems to allow anyone to join. [[User:Andrzejbanas|Andrzejbanas]] ([[User talk:Andrzejbanas|talk]]) 12:13, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
: It was vetted as reliable at [[WP:VG/RS]]. <span style='font:1.1em"Avenir";padding:1px 3px;border:1px solid #909;color:#909'>czar&nbsp;[[User:Czar|<span style="color:#909"><u>♔</u></span>]]</span> 12:53, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

== Ummmm... ==
{{hat|Closing discussion started by sockpuppet of {{u|TDFan2006}}. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 02:29, 30 November 2014 (UTC)}}
This game must have been released in Europe. I live in UK and I had this game. When did it get released? [[Special:Contributions/2.99.199.59|2.99.199.59]] ([[User talk:2.99.199.59|talk]]) 08:06, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
: No it was not. Maybe you had an import though. [[User:NathanWubs|NathanWubs]] ([[User talk:NathanWubs|talk]]) 08:14, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== VC in infobox ==

Re: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_Mario_RPG&curid=88522&diff=674228692&oldid=673876614] {{ping|LaytonPuzzle27|p=}}, [[Template:Infobox video game#platforms]] makes it very clear to not include emulated releases in the infobox. I said this in my edit summary. Please revert your edit. –&nbsp;[[user talk:czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:black'><u>czar</u></span>]] 16:32, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

== Sources ==

* http://www.usgamer.net/articles/how-an-unexpected-pairing-gave-super-mario-rpg-a-20-year-legacy
* http://www.usgamer.net/articles/usgamers-rpg-podcast-super-mario-rpg-axe-of-the-blood-god-55
<span style="background:#F0F0FF; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em Avenir;color:#B048B5'>czar</span>]]</span> 00:20, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

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== Requested move 13 October 2017 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''no consensus'''. Numerically this is a slight edge to moving, but Masem raised a very good point about different names in different regions, that was never addressed. This combined with Czar's argument about weighting the various parts of naming has a strong enough basis in policy for me to not be able to find a consensus to move. There is the option of the relist, but I don't think it appropriate here: there has already been substantial discussion in this listing period, and I don't think a relist would be likely to clarify the consensus. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 22:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
----
 
[[:Super Mario RPG]] → {{no redirect|Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars}} – Official name in tens of thousands of sources. [[User:ToThAc|ToThAc]] ([[User talk:ToThAc|talk]]) 18:35, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support move.''' I must again stress that we do not always use official names, but here the common name and official name are the same. '''[[User:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#C60C30">&nbsp;ONR&nbsp;</span>]]'''[[User:ONR/t|<span style="color:#B0B7BC;background:#002244">&nbsp;(talk)&nbsp;</span>]] 18:30, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - The original move was done in a [[WP:RECKLESS]] manner.<sub><small>[[User:Zxcvbnm|ZXCVBNM]] ([[User Talk:Zxcvbnm|TALK]])</small></sub> 10:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''. Title should be the best balance of what is ''recognizable'' (the name most people will call it), ''natural'' (reflecting what it's usually called), ''precise'' (unambiguously identified), and ''concise'' (not longer than necessary to identify), per the [[WP:NAMINGCRITERIA|naming criteria]] (article titles policy). Leaving off the subtitle in this case reflects the best balance of the criteria. (See also the [[WP:SUBTITLE|subtitle naming convention]].) The current version unambiguously and concisely identifies the subject recognizably and naturally. While some sources use the full title, it is also frequently shortened to just "Super Mario RPG". <small>(not [[Help:Watchlist|watching]], please {{tl|ping}}</code>)</small> <span style="background:#F0F0FF; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em Avenir;color:#B048B5'>czar</span>]]</span> 07:51, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
:*{{ping|Czar}} Are you not worried that, w/r/t to the "preciseness" of the title, ''Super Mario RPG'' might refer to the genre ([[Mario role-playing games]]) and not just this one game? <span style="font-size:12pt;background:black;padding:1px 4px">[[User:Salvidrim!|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:white">Ben&nbsp;·&nbsp;Salvidrim!</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Salvidrim|<span style="color:white">&#9993;</span>]]</span> 13:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
:::<span class="template-ping">@[[User:Czar|Czar]]:</span> ''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars '''IS''''' its most recognizable name. Check all the sources you'd like. [[User:ToThAc|ToThAc]] ([[User talk:ToThAc|talk]]) 13:08, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
:::: No, are you? Which other "Mario RPG" is confusable with "Super Mario RPG"? If there were other Super Mario RPGs of which this one was the most prominent, I could ostensibly see a need for disambiguation, but as far as I can tell, this one is clearly the [[Wikipedia:Primary topic|primary topic]] for the phrase.
:::: {{ping|ToThAc|p=}}, as I paraphrased, the naming criteria is a balance between the criteria. Game journalists often use [[Wikipedia:Official names|the official name]] on first mention, but the question is how it is most often referenced in general texts. But even if, for whatever reason, you find the subtitle to be the most recognizable part of its name, I still don't see how "Legend of the Seven Stars" would be necessary by the other criteria. <span style="background:#F0F0FF; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em Avenir;color:#B048B5'>czar</span>]]</span> 16:58, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''', as there are other RPGs based upon Super Mario out there. Not a unambigous title. [[User:Soetermans|<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">soetermans</span>]]. [[User talk: Soetermans|<sup>↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">'''TALK'''</span></sup>]] 13:58, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' "Super Mario RPG" is a completely unique title, and there are no other "Super Mario" RPGs (there are plenty though of [[List of Mario role-playing games|Mario RPGs]]). A hat-note to that list would be appropriate to help redirect people that might search on that, but there's no name conflict here to require the move. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-size:x-small;">ASEM</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 17:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
*:<span class="template-ping">@[[User:Masem|Masem]]:</span> Since when has being a "completely unique page" ''ever'' been grounds to keep a page title? [[User:ToThAc|ToThAc]] ([[User talk:ToThAc|talk]]) 21:29, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
*::The arguments here boil down to whether we should be sticklers for the exact title used in ''some'' regions of release, over its more common title used in ''other'' regions, but also used as the shortcut name for the game in the forementioned regions, and where there is no other naming conflict getting in the way. If there was a naming conflict in that second option, then the first option makes logical sense to avoid it. But without the naming conflict, common naming takes precedence over exact/precise naming. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-size:x-small;">ASEM</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 22:08, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
----
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

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== Newly translated interviews ==

See: http://shmuplations.com/supermariorpg/ [[User:TarkusAB|<span style="color: #000000">'''TarkusAB'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:TarkusAB|<span style="color: #aa0000">'''talk'''</span>]]</sup> 02:44, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

== Geno in Smash Bros ==

{{mention|Smuckola}} {{mention|Vinnylospo}} So I'm seeing a little back and forth in regards to Geno's inclusion in Super Smash Bros, so I want to start a discussion here in hopes of avoiding an edit war. The current revision stands at:

:Though Geno's only leading video game role is in Super Mario RPG, Masahiro Sakurai added the popularly requested character to the Super Smash Bros. fighting game series because of his projectile hand.

This is not entirely true. Geno was not "added" in any Smash game. In Wii U/3DS, a Geno skin for Mii Fighter was released, but he's not considered part of the roster, same as Cuphead or Sans. The first part of the sentence isn't really notable either, as many other Smash characters have only appeared in one game (like Duck Hunt or Ice Climbers).

The source makes clear that the character is a popular request; Sakurai wanted to include the character since Brawl but couldn't (whether or not it's due to licensing is speculation); the character was included as a skin in Wii U/3DS. All of these should be taken into account here. --[[User:ThomasO1989|ThomasO1989]] ([[User talk:ThomasO1989|talk]]) 22:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

== Huh. I just noticed something. ==

The remake lacks the subtitle [[User:Serouj2000|Serouj2000]] ([[User talk:Serouj2000|talk]]) 18:13, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

== Bad Sources in development section ==

I have read "Epic News" in Nintendo Power issue 77, pages 26-29, and so many citations pull from this article, that don't occur in the article at all. Citation 21, supposedly about a 60% completed game with turned based mario characters weilding weapons, cites this article, and this article says that they had a 70% completed game that played more like Zelda Link to the past.

This source was used correctly at other times in the article, but a large number of the citations all come from this Nintendo Power article, that does not cover what is stated. [[Special:Contributions/64.33.139.18|64.33.139.18]] ([[User talk:64.33.139.18|talk]]) 00:33, 31 October 2023 (UTC)